OMG, OMG, OMG, was that...character development?  Am I actually feeling...warm fuzzies?  Did Sam and Dean actually have something good happen to them?  My Chuck, what just happened here and why am I so flipping happy? 
  
I keep digging back long and hard, trying to remember when at the end of a “Supernatural” episode I felt so cheery.  â€œFresh Blood” in season three comes to mind, as does the episode that followed, “A Very Supernatural Christmas.”  “Monster Movie,” another Edlund contribution, comes to mind as well.  After that, I got nothing.
  
It’s not that I haven’t felt good after “Supernatural” episodes.  I mean the warrior ending from two weeks ago was positively epic and goes down as one of the best endings ever.  I’m not talking about thrilled, shocked, scared, emotionally wrecked, ecstatic, etc.  What I’m talking about is happy.  Warm fuzzies on this show since season four is just about as elusive as those damn tablets.   

Characterization has been my number one complaint with the writing of this show for three seasons now.  It’s seemed that these newer crop of writers try so hard to do things the way the brothers stereotypically are that the heart of their stories end up missing.  Ben Edlund, even in his lesser scripts, always manages to get the brothers right, both together and individually.  In this episode, which is not one of his lesser scripts by far, he managed to advance both Sam and Dean what seems like light years, or at least farther along than any other time this season, and he did it by blending it all in impeccably into the story.  He didn’t do any fancy speeches or overwrought dramatic tricks.  He just did the one thing we’ve been DYING to see for seasons.  He gave the brothers a break.  
 
This week, Ben was reunited with Phil Sgriccia, who has been off with Eric Kripke doing “Revolution” and hasn’t directed a “Supernatural” episode all season.  Phil’s trademark to this show is undeniable, and I knew it was him the second the first scene was shown.  You see, Ben and Phil are from the old days, and remember what a thing called “heart” was like in storytelling.  Also deserving high kudos, Jerry Wanek and team, who really, really outdid themselves with the latest set.  I can’t wait to see the other rooms, like that amazing shower that Dean enjoyed.  I feel like we’ve all been dipped in magic waters (okay, perhaps I’m getting a bit too dramatic).   
 
I already knew this episode was going to be different when I read “Nazi Necromancers” in the synopsis, as well as a Nazi bashing Golem.  Chatting with Ben Edlund earlier this week reinforced that.   Through this hat tipping to Inglourious Basterds, a couple sacred “Supernatural” themes were revisited – family and legacy.  Remember, this is after all a family business.  Just because they are now embracing another part of the family history, it doesn’t mean that the main theme has changed. 
 
This episode is a Sam fan’s dream.  Not only do we see him finally find his place in this world, spending weeks pouring through all the Men of Letters research looking like a kid at Christmas, but he got to wear a tweed jacket and sweater vest?  Play research geek at the library, which isn’t much of a stretch since he is one?  Then, on top of that whole nerdy smart guy look, his hair was positively smoking?  Okay, I know I’m sounding like a hormonally charged middle aged woman, but I’ll just call out the costume and hair department.  They started it!  Isn’t it amazing what can happen when at least one of them isn’t playing an FBI agent (that’s still old!).  Plus, Sam was the one that got to say “Son of a bitch” this week.  Honestly, has that ever happened?  He also figured out that the Rabbi left a library of congress number.  Oh, the theme was obvious.  Adorable yet sexy dorks rule! 

Dean had his chance to shine too though.  He may not have been buying into the whole Men of Letters thing, thinking they were doing just fine without it, but at least he figured out quickly how to enjoy a hot shower and a comfy robe!  He didn’t seem to care when Sam asked if he was going to take off the dead guy’s robe.  But the really funny happened when Dean had a gay encounter, and was strangely flattered by it!  Flustered, but flattered.  He almost seemed disappointed when he found out it was a fake gay thing.  I just love Sam’s reaction when Dean said “He was my gay thing.”  On top of all that though, Dean delivered my favorite line, “Well, now we know; paper beats Golem, fire beats undead Nazi Zombie freaks.”  In a very close second, he makes a reference to my favorite "Saturday Night Live" sketch as a kid.  “How do we ‘Oh, No! Mr. Bill’ over there?”  For those that don’t get the reference, Mr. Bill was a clay figure that kept getting squashed in these short films.  Every time this happened, the tagline would be “Oh No!” 
 
Everything came together in this episode.  Notice how this week we got continuity, not shoutouts?  All it took was a few sentences of Dean coming back and filling us in on where things stand.  Castiel won’t answer (remember him?), Garth says Hi, Kevin is still carrying on with the tablet.  Notice how there wasn’t a single “You’ve been Garthed” in there?  I love mature writing, don’t you?
 
For once, the parallel between a brother and the person of the week wasn’t heavy handed.  It was perfect because their situations were relevant despite their differences.  Aaron grew up hearing about the Judah Initiative from his grandfather, but he just thought he was a crazy old man.  He hadn’t experienced the family tragedies and the hunter’s secrets when he was young.  His parents thought it was all crazy talk too, or at least did that to protect Aaron.  It’s funny how reluctant heroes are often the slackers that are forced into something like this.  Maybe that’s why I loved Aaron so much.  It’s clear he has so much to learn, but he choose at the end to take on that responsibility knowing the Thule, which are a threat to his people, are still out there.  Plus he’s got a seven foot Golem to take care of because there’s no one else.  To think, this is the same guy that smoked his Golem users manual in college because it had perfect paper for rolling.  Yes, that kind of absurdity screams Edlund. 

On the other side is Sam.  It’s no accident that the focus was on his lit up face when Dean turned on the lights.  It’s like he’s been searching for this place is whole life.  Seeing him so engrossed in those books, lost in geek Heaven, embracing the legacy that was left on him, it was quite inspirational.  He looked like a man that had just found Jesus.  After hearing Aaron’s story about his grandfather, it’s Sam that’s willing to associate him and Dean with the Men of Letters.  I adore how he got the Golem’s trust by saying their grandfather was from the Men of Letters.  He remembered they were good to the Judah Initiative, and it prevented him from cracking Sam and Dean’s skulls. 

The story had so many things - Funny, exciting, ass kicking, and some of the most interesting and creative mythology.  The fascinating thing is the Thule Society was a real group.  The fact that Sam and Dean are breaking their way into this unknown world of secret societies really pushes things into exciting new places.  I’m also thrilled to pieces that Aaron’s grandfather was so brilliantly played by Hal Linden!  His part was short, but so wonderful.  It does seem natural that spontaneous combustion would be a tool when fighting Nazi Necromancers.  Another great benefit of fighting Nazi Necromancers is when you kill one they have to be burned within twelve hours.  Kudos to Sam for taking advantage of a cold winter evening by keeping his hands warm over a nice Nazi corpse fire.  No wonder Aaron thought they were psychopaths.  I won’t even get into how both Sam and Dean didn’t hesitate in blowing the Nazis’ head off.  Brad Pitt would be proud.

I know I positively freaked after Sam was attacked by the dead Nazi with the dart.  He started turning all purple and pale!  Same with Aaron, and poor Dean there left to figure out what to do as they both turned dead.  Send in the Golem!  The dart hits the Golem, but he’s not deterred.  He just reaches through the books and smacks the living s*** of the Nazi!  Then he drags him down the stairs.  “Long live the Thule,” the battered Nazi says, just before his neck is broken by the Golem.  “Or not,” Dean quips.  I love how scary and funny blend together so seamlessly. 
 
What I liked the most about this massive Golem, other than any creature that towers over Sam is a true anomaly, is how deep his convictions ran.  He was true to his religion and the traditions he was trying to protect.  He tried to keep Aaron in line with those beliefs.  That added some layers to a creature that is stereotypically a giant bruiser made of clay.  I’m with Edlund though, this guy’s voice did sound like a church bell rolling down hill.  He was perfect. 
 
The best part of this episode obviously is the closing scene.  We’ve been dying for a while now for a solid, honest, brotherly moment and this goes down as one of the best.  Sam gets to make his contribution to the vast library, adding the copies of the Thule journal.  While doing this with enthusiasm, Dean sees the writing on the wall.  Sam wants to be a Man of Letters.  “Good.”  He puts away the beers and pours them some fine scotch instead.  This is a new dawn, and they aren’t marking this moment with the cheap stuff.  Sam doesn’t say a word but his face says it all.  Yes, this is what he is now. It fits.  The shot closes out with both of them drinking together at the table, getting cozy in their new home.  Cue me, the inner fan girl squealing, smiling so wide my cheeks are hurting.  I’m still smiling! 

Implications
 
I’ve already read fan concern that this show will start taking plots where Sam stays behind working the bat cave while Dean, with possibly Castiel, goes out and does the hunts.  Did that happen in this case?  No, Sam found a lead and both he and Dean took off to Eastern Pennsylvania (from Lebanon, Kansas) to check it out.  If Sam’s current quest is information, then he needs to be out in the field too.  Plus he knows that he has to be there to have his brother’s back. 
 
As for Dean, the end said it all.  Dean isn’t ready, and may never be, to take on the role of supernatural librarian and man of knowledge, but he found value in Sam accepting that role.  This outdated info did help them in a case.  But most important, this role is making Sam happy.  Dean hasn’t seen Sam this happy in a very long time.  As long as Sam’s happy, he is too, thus the approval at the end, complete with toast. 
 
Don’t think that Dean will leave all the researching up to Sam though.  No doubt he’ll be digging through these books and documents at times as well.  In the meantime, Dean is perfectly content having a nice place to call home.  They’ve been quite lost since Bobby’s house burned down, and having a home base is good.  It’s always nice to have something to come back to, especially a place with a family connection.  My only disappointment (and it’s minor) is we didn’t get to see the rest of the place, like where they’re sleeping.  I’m sure that will come in time. 
 
Think about it, the Men of Letters were organizers too, and a support group to various people and societies.  Sam and Dean have a network right now, but it’s not coordinated.  Garth has been trying to get things together on the hunting end, so that makes him a valuable contact right now.  Sam and Dean also have access to a heavenly prophet, and an angel too.  Heck, if Meg ever surfaces, they might even have a demon ally.  They’re actually in the position to expand the network farther than the Men of Letters possibly could.  Sam and Dean have always been the nerve center if you think about it, so now there’s a place to go along with that.  As Sam so eloquently observed, they could use a break. 

It’s a brave new world, and the lowest levels are currently being driven by Sam, Aaron, and Garth.  These guys are hardly in command and only getting started in what will be their lifelong quests, but they’re connected, and they’re not alone, even if they are last descendants of their groups.  They’re all carrying on family legacies of hope, even Garth, who saw Bobby as a father figure and felt compelled to carry on his work.  Luckily Sam has Dean as his reliable (and equal) partner that helps pull everything together, and Aaron has his Golem.  On the other side Kevin and Castiel are doing their parts too, and I sense when it all comes together, it’s going to be something spectacular. 
 
Oh, but I hear the purists, “This show is about Sam and Dean out there together, hunting.”  No, it was about that in season one.  It hasn’t been that way ever since the special children were introduced.  As more beings were introduced into their universe, the more profound and complex things got.  Their simple ways are long done, so it’s nice to finally see something come of all that rather than Sam and Dean floundering with no resources, like last season. 
 
I’m giving “Everybody Hates Hitler” a big A, and it earns the title of my personal favorite of the season.  I’m still smiling!
  
(P.S.  For those looking for Screencaps for this episode, they're up in our Photo Gallery.)



Comments  

aelaine
# aelaine 2013-02-07 17:44
Alice, spot on, I agree with everything you had to say, no need to add more lol Loved this, hope the show keeps this up! We need Edlund for more scripts! Yes, I hope the other writers pay attention, guess will need to twitter them lol
My favorite so far, had just the right touches of what we love so much. Thanks for writing this, enjoyed your perspective.
caity
# caity 2013-02-07 17:57
this was a fantastic summary of everything i loved in the episode and why ben edlund is my favorite supernatural writer, by far. it was probably my absolute favorite episode since season 8 began (and that's hard to accomplish with how much love i hold for cas when he's around!) - i hope it only goes up from here.
CassieKitty
# CassieKitty 2013-02-07 17:59
Yes yes YES to all of this! This episode was absolutely AMAZING! There was such development to a new phase for the show that is still right at the heart of the brothers, but also integrating some of the stuff that we've seen sort of being shunted in bits at a time. There was cohesion here that we haven't seen as much, and I really think we'll continue to see it develop. The writing team this season I think was working out a few bumps, but they're getting there now. I loved your perspective, thanks for sharing it and sticking up for the notion that family don't end with blood! :)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-07 18:07
Great review! You mentioned many of the reasons Ben Edlund continues to be my favorite. I get the feeling he obsesses as much about the continuity stuff as the fans do, which is appreciated. But he also manages to work in those aspect where they feel natural and part of the story. And I try not to let the nitpicky stuff get to me, but it's so nice when I don't have to try to ignore it.

He does do a great job on characterizatio n and not just on the main characters, but on the side characters as well. Hal Linden was barely on scene and I hated that he died. I really liked the Golem within a few lines and he wasn't being Mr. Lovable. But he can really make you care about characters very quickly. This is where the Bitten episode didn't work for me. I couldn't have cared less whether any of those kids lived or died. And for that episode to work I needed to. But I was so relieved the Golem made it through and Aaron. Aaron pretty had me at having a moment with Dean and I was falling fast when he used the book for rolling papers but I was totally in love when he stood up for his Golem with Sam and Dean.

I loved that moment at the end too. Sam engrossed in his books and Dean just enjoying the moment. It was wonderful.
Ale
# Ale 2013-02-07 18:12
Lovely review, Alice!
Just last episode we were sorry for Dean and Sam still having to sleep in their clothes in the motel room, always on alert, and now Dean is relaxing in a bathrobe and slippers! That was great! Our boys deserve it!
m1tchells
# m1tchells 2013-02-07 20:23
Quote:
Lovely review, Alice!
Just last episode we were sorry for Dean and Sam still having to sleep in their clothes in the motel room!
I think you had a slight typo...surely you meant to say we were sorry they were still sleeping in their clothes. Surely... :P
Ale
# Ale 2013-02-08 09:47
Oh, my, I totally gave myself up, didn't I?
magichappening
# magichappening 2013-02-07 18:36
Loved the episode, loved the review (thank you Alice!) and love the love! SO many good things, important things, dovetailing things, world-creating things, character-true things, mature humour and reactions things ... this episode: so much time and so little to say ('Strike that. Reverse it' - Willy Wonka? Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? No?)

All hail The Edlund! (HAIL, I said HAIL – not HEIL) The juxtaposition of drama and comedy that Ben so expertly crafts has never been more apparent than in the ‘smoked the papers’ scene. Classic. Although, the Belladonna joke in the LARPing episode was not far off, Robbie Thompson. Seriously, tho. The Jeremy Carver, Ben Edlund, Robbie Thompson trifecta is what Supernatural dreams are made of. And all the other writers like Jenny Klein, Adam Glass etc. seem to be upping their game too.

Plus the Winchesters have a Batcave! And 'golems and J.I.s and Men of Letters, oh my!' Really liked Aaron and the Golem too. Jeremy Carver, thank you, thank you, thank you. I mean, I'm a dyed-in-the-woo l Supernatural fan and have watched every episode and will be with the show til the bitter end, but this episode was just an embarrassment of riches. And SO much potential for storylines and adding depth and richness to the threadbare world that the Winchesters had been reduced to.

And I agree, Alice - the continuity was blessedly anvil-free and not a hint of paint-by-the-nu mbers writing :) And twas SO refreshing to see the guys slip naturally into grownup mode: able to function in harmony and without ill feeling, whether in sync on a hunt, displaying different skill sets (and priorities!) at the Batcave or spending angst-free time apart.

And we have the additional threads of Cas and redemption, Heaven and Naomi's plans, Crowley and his plans, the tablets and Kevin and his mom, Garth-as-the-ne w-Bobby, Benny and his slippery slope, Charlie as Royal Geek Extraordinaire, possibly the Alpha Vampire, possibly Amelia....I’m thinking that there needs to be ...hmmmm...23? No way. A minimum of 46 episodes this season are essential for the whole Season 8 DNA strand to be complete!

Not to mix my metaphors, or, in this case, references, but we are Back in Black... Gentleman, start your engines...
Ale
# Ale 2013-02-07 18:44
In light of this episode, I was rethinking the whole Sam/Amelia thing (please, don't yell at me for remembering that). It was clear that only the hunting part wasn't enough for Sam, thus, his speech to Dean in the car (was it in Heartache?) that Dean might be happy going through live slashing monsters, but he wanted something more. At that time, we thought here was referring to "normal" life, with Amelia, since this MOL was a total surprise. But, through the episodes, it was revealed to us, and also to Sam, that the 'normal' with Amelia was also unfulfilling, it still lacked something. Therefore, he was conflicted, but he ended up choosing hunting - something I don't think he would choose if Dean wasn't there. So, my view is, is that if the Sam/Amelia history was insatisfactory to us (to say the least), well, it was supposed to be, because it also was for Sam.

Culminating in this episode, in which he finally found himself.

Now, if that was the writers intend, kudos for them - they hit the mark (in my opinion, of course). If it was not... well then, I don't want to comment, because they lost me.

What do you guys think?
E
# E 2013-02-07 21:33
Ale, you know... this is a fantastic way to think about the Sam/Amelia storyline! I think I will go with this even if it was unintentional by the writers because it's just such a good read on things. Thanks for this!
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-02-07 21:37
I agree with you. Sam was not happy in any of the flashbacks (even the birthday cake scene, as he was first frantic with worry that Amelia had disappeared). I think this was intentional by the writers, but it did have me wondering why... those flashbacks were strange and not all that convincing (the weakest part of the season, I believe). Of course, there still may be more to be revealed here???

But perhaps we also needed to see that although Sam longed for a 'normal' life, when he got it, he was still unhappy. He still felt like he didn't belong. That's what makes these last two episodes so wonderful, in my eyes, and I agree with what Alice said above about the episode being a Sam fan's dream ;-)

I really love the direction the show is taking. Kudos to Jeremy Carver for his vision, and to Ben Edlund for another brilliant script :D
aelaine
# aelaine 2013-02-08 04:51
Ale
You know I think you are right, it fits better than anything else, I love the idea and it will be how I think about it going forward, thanks. it makes much more sense and brings meaning to the first episodes with the flashbacks. I Think the MOL fits him right now and makes him happy and hope it does for some time, besides I want them to have a "home" that they are both comfortable with!
"
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-02-08 07:51
Yes Ale, I like what you're thinking here. I too think that this is what Sam needs to be happy, some good research and maybe a little light hunting? :lol: Although like Alice said, he will always have Dean's back when the need arises.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-08 11:24
This isnt going to make Sam happy, content but not happy. Surely he'll still want something outside of just hunting and researching? From what I've gathered Sam is still very much going to be chasing something more but now he'll just be more content while he's doing it.

I for one still want Sam to have a nice girl, maybe a real home, maybe friends outside of hunting at some point but I'm also pleased to see Sam find something to keep content in the life he has in the mean time and I'm grateful that he has something outside of Dean to keep him in the hunt.
saltwatergal
# saltwatergal 2013-02-08 08:59
I think you are on to something there.

Yes I agree about the relationship with Amelia being unfulfilling to Sam, and as such left US flounderingly unhappy and unsatisfied. You can feel it when you read the fan comments week after week this season. So finally we have gotten the big reveal! Sam has direction and now the opportunity to indulge his geekyness in his new "Library of Letters" Stanford was just the warm up.. it taught him what he needed to know in order to fulfill his destiny,as a Man of Letters. ( You gotta feel that Dean is gonna swing around and finally make peace with some part of having a Destiny~eventua lly!) Sam is content and this fulfills Dean.

As far as the Writers go.. I need to remind myself of what they have told us in the past. They sit in a room and block out where the season is going to end up... they block out main points then fill in how they get there. In the process there are some dead ends. There has to be. Think of those mazes we loved as kids.. you take yourself in a direction only to find yourself at a wall and you gotta turn around. Its what causes the highs and lows -- its what keeps us interested. The playing on our emotions~people ~..its why we watch in the first place.
And of course the boys are smart, loveable, gorgeous and honorable.. we are sucked into their story. The family bonding and fighting we recognize it as our own experience, and there is enough wack a doodle stuff to make us laugh. For some reason I can't fathom, we watch for the goryness? (I could live without that part. ) Like reading a good book, we are no longer conscious of "reading" the book. We are "in" the story. Experiencing it like it was happening to us. That is why(I think) what happens to our boys is so critically picked apart every week by the fandom...becaus e it IS happening to US. When one of the boys are hurting we are hurting.. its empathy man!
When we don't think the writers have hit the mark somewhere ? we gotta just wait... see how it unfolds... the important stuff is gonna be revealed eventually. What falls by the wayside could be little more than a slick diversion to keep us guessing.
My feeling is I should enjoy the story... and keep in mind it is a story... I forget that sometimes. I have to applaud the whole crew that makes SPN happen. I believe they are as invested in this story as we are. From the writers to the guy who crushed up all those cigs in the ashtray, I thank you for each hour of escape you provide me. The devil's in the detail. Gotta love it.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-08 11:15
well there is also the fact that Sam being content as a Man Of Letters means he isnt likely to leave hunting and therfore leave Dean? Mayeb Dean's relief in Sam finding his place comes from the relief he feels that Sam is now fully committed to a life by Dean's side?
Ale
# Ale 2013-02-08 09:43
Hey, E, KG_SPN, aelaine, Sylvie and saltwatergal, I'm glad you saw the same here. It gives me so much hope for the show, and for Sam and Dean!

Thanks for your replies!
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-02-08 11:23
Excellent point - something always seemed a little off about the Sam/Amelia flashbacks - even though he claimed he was happy, it always looked like Sam was missing something. Even when he went back to hunting with Dean, there was still a void which the MoL appears to fill. Looking back, wondering if that was intentional by the writers/JC. Would make a lot of people happy if they claim this was their intent all along, even if it wasn't ;-)
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-07 18:52
Hi Alice, that was speedy! I am so much in agreement with your whole review. You really hit the nail on the head with "he gave the brothers a break". So few in recent years.

It was so nice to see both brothers present and accounted for. I LOVED the end scene so much. I like my brotherly moments subtle like this, so much more powerful. But I'll gladly take any they give us.

Thank you for the great review.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-02-07 21:41
Quote:
I LOVED the end scene so much.
How good have the endings been for the last three episodes? I loved them all, but this one was particularly satisfying... seeing Sam and Dean so comfortable with one another... and dare I say it, happy :lol:
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-08 11:10
well forgtting all the issues they had with each in for 10 whole episodes would pretty much allow them to be comfortable with each other, much like they were before the season started.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-02-09 18:15
I'm sensing some sarcasm there (but correct me if I'm wrong) :-)

I take your point, but I don't agree entirely. While I wasn't particularly convinced by the Sam/Amelia flashbacks, I did enjoy the Dean purgatory flashbacks... and I don't think the two brothers could realistically have been comfortable with one another right after they reunited (when the season started). Dean was primed for hunting and Sam wasn't... (and to be honest, Sam was emotionally exhausted before Dean disappeared, so he might've wanted out anyway after the Leviathan threat was over).

Did Jeremy Carver have to ramp up the conflict as much as he did? I guess that's another conversation, but I think he deliberately pushed the brothers to the brink of losing one another... to make them realise they didn't want to lose another (IMHO). I think we saw that in Dean's expression after he realised how the text message impacted on Sam (much differently to what he intended).

My comment about loving the last three episodes is because we are seeing the brothers slowly getting back to a better place; but I certainly don't think the last few months have been forgotten. I still believe Sam will eventually open up to Dean, particularly as he now seems to have found a way to 'fit' into the hunting life (instead of feeling like he was the odd one out in his family).

There is also a lot we still don't know... so I'm just sitting back and enjoying the ride that Jeremy Carver is taking us on :-)
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-09 18:50
Nicely put KG_SPN!
st50
# st50 2013-02-07 18:57
*Deep happy sigh*
I still have MAJOR issues with the start of the season, but this one episode goes a long way towards making me happy again. Thank goodness for Edlund and Sgriccia. :-)

I'm also happy you caught the "Mr Bill" reference, Alice. I was afraid I was imagining it.
(An aside - I had a large pink teddy bear that one of my high school boyfriends had won for me. When we eventually broke up, I had lots of fun with the "Oh NO!" :D Yes. I am evil. ;-) )
Ginger
# Ginger 2013-02-07 19:08
I don't disagree with much that you saw in the episode and I don't feel comfortable discussing in depth on this board, so I'll keep my comments short.

I realize that Edlund always likes to push the boundaries with Dean's character (and I like that), but I was confused by the gay scene. I took it to mean that Dean was curious, or flattered if you will, by it, which is against everything we've seen from Dean on this issue since the beginning of the pilot. That one goes in the head scratcher column in my ledger.

I agree that Sam found his place in the hunting world this episode. Too bad, though, it had nothing to do with Dean. I still need an explanation for Sam's behavior towards his brother in the first 10 episodes of the season. The writers may choose to ignore that, but I can see no character growth from Sam until that happens.

I saw zero character growth for Dean in this episode. He was the complete opposite of everything we've seen of Dean this season -- the hardened badass hunter. I can buy that Dean needs Sam to be fully human and happy after his horrible year in Purgatory (but particularly from his unresolved Hell issues). Sam is Dean's connection to his humanity and he needs Sam to remind him of that. But here I found Dean to be nothing but comedy relief, and I certainly hope he has more of a story than being happy to have a nice hot shower, wearing a robe and slippers, and having a sip of fine scotch in a cut crystal glass. I hope there is more of a story than being happy because Sam is happy.

I liked Aaron and the Golem, but ripping up his Grandfather's legacy and using the pages to smoke dope kind of screams 'entitled' and disrespect, but I get the reluctant hero parallel with Sam and I liked the character.

There was an awful lot of good in this episode, and the set designs and special effects are the first to come to mind (not the music though). I appreciate that the show seems to be putting more money into those aspects.

And I don't for a minute think that Sam will be left to do research while Dean goes out and plays action figure to more reluctant heroes. I think both brothers will be in on the hunt.

It was nice reading why so many others were delighted with this episode while I was just okay with it, though. It's always nice to see what others pick up on.
Beanie
# Beanie 2013-02-08 08:35
Now before anyone goes jumping down my throat, I don't hate Sam or favor one character over another.

I simply like balance and what I may see as an imbalance, someone else may not, but that doesn't make either of us wrong.****

I don't want to see Dean happy simply because Sam's happy.

I don't like that thought at all.

I want to see where Sam ALSO does what makes Dean happy and content.

No, Sam may not always agree or approve or enjoy but compromise and sacrifice from both parties is what makes a partnership work.

It needs to go both ways, and I'd like to believe that it's more than just, 'hunting by his brothers side' and 'having a drink in approval of a geek out.'
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-02-08 08:45
Quote:
Now before anyone goes jumping down my throat, I don't hate Sam or favor one character over another.

I simply like balance and what I may see as an imbalance, someone else may not, but that doesn't make either of us wrong.****

I don't want to see Dean happy simply because Sam's happy.

I don't like that thought at all.

I want to see where Sam ALSO does what makes Dean happy and content.

No, Sam may not always agree or approve or enjoy but compromise and sacrifice from both parties is what makes a partnership work.

It needs to go both ways, and I'd like to believe that it's more than just, 'hunting by his brothers side' and 'having a drink in approval of a geek out.'
Sam made Dean happy in the episode with Charlie and this isnt about Dean leaning back and smiling or being happy because Sam is in every episode . This was about in this episode at that moment and seeing a Sam who might just of found something that doesnt make him feel like a outsider or a freak .

He saw what it was doing for Sam and was happy esp knowing his brother has struggled with where he fitted in .It was a brother moment but others are free to see something the way they do it just for me after everything Sam has been through recently it was nice to see him glow for once.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-02-08 09:19
Quote:
Now before anyone goes jumping down my throat, I don't hate Sam or favor one character over another.

I simply like balance and what I may see as an imbalance, someone else may not, but that doesn't make either of us wrong.****

I don't want to see Dean happy simply because Sam's happy.

I don't like that thought at all.

I want to see where Sam ALSO does what makes Dean happy and content.

No, Sam may not always agree or approve or enjoy but compromise and sacrifice from both parties is what makes a partnership work.

It needs to go both ways, and I'd like to believe that it's more than just, 'hunting by his brothers side' and 'having a drink in approval of a geek out.'
There have been plenty of episodes where Sam has been happy for Dean. See season 3. So I think it has gone both ways.
shadowhund
# shadowhund 2013-02-08 10:17
Totally agree!!!

The whole S3 and not to forget S7 where Dean was supposed to be stone number one for Sam, Sam was this stone number one for depressed Dean!
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-08 13:46
And the first part of season 2 where Sam was trying to pull Dean out of his depression about John. Dean told Sam that Sam had no right to grieve for John because Sam had been a bad son and Sam shut up about whatever he was feeling about John. Dean got angry and needed to punch something and Sam let himself be that something. Sam was done things to support Dean for much of the show.

I'm not responding to you directly shadow, just trying to keep my answer close to the original question.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-08 11:08
I'm confused as to what you think Sam should do to make Dean happy?
E
# E 2013-02-08 11:17
Sam HAS done plenty to make Dean happy, even in this season. I know that they have been fighting a lot with one another, but they have been incredibly supportive too. I'll just mention some of the Sam stuff becasue that this what's being discussed right now. (Dean has done many similar, and awesome things for Sam too.) Sam stayed up all night with Dean when he was first back from purgatory and was too uncomfortable and wired to sleep; Sam bought Dean his first burger back from purgatory when he hadn't eaten in who knows how long; Sam shared his advice on survivor guilt when Dean was feeling bad over thinking he left Cas in purgatory; Sam decided to have fun and play with the other LARPers because he could see how much Dean wanted to. Sam has done plenty and shown his love in many different small ways. Perhaps you are not looking carefully enough.
E
# E 2013-02-08 11:18
FYI, this isn't for you Hades, this is to keep my reply close to the main thread! Sometimes the comments tend to wander.
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-08 16:53
It was nice to see that Sam was content with himself for himself and Dean was content being Dean. Don't think either one is trying to make the other happy. Isn't that a sign of maturation that was emphasized with the hard liquor in place of the beer. Loved how Sam filled in our questions about running water and electricity. Why was the coffee cup and the chess board left so abruptly= who interrupted the MoL? Just a detail-Edlund usually doesn't just drop these in so left me wondering. Sam and Dean settling into their own person hoods and can take off a night from time to time. They are so human,Still loving the episode.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-08 17:11
Giant slinky, Larping are two occasions that come to mind
Thisoldbag
# Thisoldbag 2013-02-07 19:17
i don't squee. I am too old to squee! I never have. Was Sam wearing Hush Puppies? SQUEE!
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-07 22:08
I am pretty sure there is no age limit on SQUEE - feel free ;-) I have to go back and look at these shoes everyone seems to have spotted though....
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-02-07 19:22
Wow, your review was great! You are a genius writer. I can't wait for next week! Plus I LOVED the two of them together at the end!!! They were comfortable together and HAPPY. I LOVE them!!! I love Ben Edlund!

My protective mom side is emerging. I want to make sure they won't be "caught" there by the electric and water companies. And parking Baby there by the door. I want to know who is going to clean! Have S&D ever really lived in a place that clean? I am one of those people that wants to see S&D during a "day off."

I'm sorry, I couldn't help that. Did I mention I LOVE them? I LOVED them working and being comfortable together. I can't wait for the next ep and I haven't had that feeling for a long time! Eeeeee!
kristin
# kristin 2013-02-07 20:44
This episode was so wonderful. Just. So much better than anything I've watched live since I started watching SPN. My face hurt from smiling, too. Yay!

I loved:

That Sam was happy. Really. Not grudgingly, sorta, or amused or kinda pleased. Happy. I've felt like Sam's been bruised and wounded for so long (frankly, since he got his soul back at the beginning of Season 7) and tonight, finally, he felt HAPPY. And we all know, when Sam is happy, Dean is content. So, yeah, in sum, that was the most important part.

Dean's "hand porn" in the scene with Aaron and showing his ID. That shot of his hand, taking back his ID as he realized Aaron wasn't (was?) tailing him, it's just. IDK. The fingers, the hand, the whole thing. GUH.

Sam's "college" shoes - his grad assistant getup is amazing, but the freakin' brown half boots. I'm just. I'm. I don't know. Maybe it's all the years of living in a college town, but man, if the GSAs looked like Sam, I'd be divorced. Or slutty. Or both. :-)

Dean the metrosexual, with the shower and the slippers and the robe. Man. No, Sam, he's not taking off the robe yet, you naughty boy. (Edlund is evil).

The Golum. My kids go to a Jewish daycare (and Catholic school now, welcome to my diverse life) so I knew about golum, and I loved the whole idea, and the actor was just amazing. Edlund saying his voice is like a church bell rolling down the hill is pretty much why this guy makes a living writing and I spend my time obsessing about everything he puts on the page. ;-)

Putting a freaking mini-fridge in the batcave. With beer. I love this show. And then Dean eschewing the beer for the good stuff for a toast to Sam as a MoL and their successful hunt.

"It's probably not even - it's very sharp." The rest of the episode was funny but that was the line that made me snort. Dean, never touch the sharp and pointy...

Oay, because I did scratch my head about it, how many "keys" are there? Did Dean take it with him when he left, and was Sam "locked" inside while Dean was checking on Sam? With a key like that, couldn't Sam have picked it? And if there's a key, must there also be a lock? Please, please don't show that old man going on about the lock and the key. PLEASE. Jared owns that line and it's just. It's too much. This is the problem when you meta where you work.

Overall, just a great, great episode. Finally!
magichappening
# magichappening 2013-02-08 08:03
Quote:
And if there's a key, must there also be a lock?
Ahahahaha! Sheer brilliance, Kristin!
E
# E 2013-02-08 11:36
Hi Kristin, Welcome aboard. I had a question for you as you seem to be open to the whole issue of Dean's sexual preferences that has been a big part of fandom in recent years. I only ask this of you because you seem to be a "shipper" so forgive me if I have made assumptions that aren't true here. And additionally, I ask this with all sincerity, because sometimes a poster's tone can get lost in translation and I don't want you to think I am snarking or criticizing; this is a legitimate question asked in all sincerity based on my own confusion over the wincest/destiel /sastiel thing. Why is there such a huge part of the fandom looking for sexual intentions between the main characters of this show, wheather that be Dean/Cas, Sam/Cas, Dean/Benny or even Dean/Sam (just no, no, no IMHO). I really don't get it. Honestly, I just don't understand why so many fans seem to want this to happen? And fans DO want this to happen it seems. I am not opposed to it by any means (except the Sam/Dean, just no, No, NO!), but I find it confusing non-the-less.

I mean, if you are a red-blooded heterosexual female who has set up one of the boys as a type of sexual fantasy, (yes, we all do TOO do it!) why would you want to make him metaphorically unavailable to the female species by making him prefer men? I really don't understand this at all. To me, gay men are unavailable no matter how attractive or flirty or awesome they may be. For me, this is just such a fantasy killer to think that they are not interested in the entire female species.

And conversely, if you are a red-blooded lesbian female, why would you care if any of the main characters were gay or straight? You wouldn't be interested either way would you because they either like other men and so are not interested in you, or they ARE interested in you, but you aren't interested in them in that way.... like Charlie.

Sorry, I am just truly baffled by the entire notion... is anyone else as confused as I am? Can anyone who likes shipping tell me what the appeal is, cause it's currently lost on me.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-08 13:20
I don't know if I can help you here. Yes I ship certain couples on certain shows, but for the most part my shipping stays happily off in fanfiction land. I neither want or need it on the show. I enjoy fanfiction because if expands the boundaries of the show in ways the show won't or can't due to many factors, social acceptance, budget (dragons on Supernatural had to be human looking) or simply having the show making decisions that viewers don't like. The number of fix-it fics for Sam's not looking for Dean is considerable.

I think part of shipping is because our society has told us repeatedly that the only way a relationship is special or true is if it is sexual. Almost any media TV or movies makes romantic love the center. So people who see a strong bond that they don't want to break and they make it sexual as well because we have been told over and over that sex means people are permanently together. It's a narrow view of relationships, but it is pretty prevalent. Plus TV shows cast good looking actors who generate chemistry. Again, modern culture says that chemistry leads to sex.

One of my big ships was on Angel between Wesley and Lilah. They actually had them in a relationship at one time but Fred was always the one Wesley loved. So I sought out fics where Wesley realized that Lilah was a better match and fell in love with her, while still watching and going along with the Wesley/Fred pairing that the show was giving me.

As to slash parings, it's not that people think they have any chance of having a relationship with Sam or Dean or Castiel or Benny. It's a simple fantasy of having good looking boys taking off their clothes and acting on feelings that aren't in canon. It's an erotic fantasy nothing more. Some fans want to see it translated onto the screen. As I said, I'm not one of those, especially with Supernatural, because any romance does not fit into the structure of the show, IMHO.

In regard to this season, I think things might have gone better if the writers had decided to cast Ty Olsen as Andrew, the veterinarian that Sam took the dog to and who Sam bonded with. The fandom responds well to good looking male guest stars and not so much to female ones. It might have made Sam's story go down better with fans. The writers also seem to have a hard time writing female characters, so that might have improved that outlook. However that scenario would only have worked if they made SAM bi, because again, the culture sees sexual, romantic relationships as being a priority over friendship and even family.

I hope I didn't ramble too much.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-08 17:17
SPN writers are awful at writing female characters unless they're mother types, evil bitches or lesbians apparently. Though I'm not sure Charlie counts because she's basically Dean with boobs.
E
# E 2013-02-08 21:57
Hi Percy,
I guess that this makes sense to me in some ways, the idea
of intimacy as legitimizing a relationship in some way. For me, Sam and Dean's relationship IS special already, and to have them become intimate would be all kinds of WRONG. As to Sam/whomever and Dean/whomever, I guess I don't really care all that much. Don't get me wrong, I love a good sex scene (Sam/Madison, Sam/Dr. Cara, Sam/Unforgiven wife, Dean/monster) but for me, the meaningful romance storyline hasn't worked well (Lisa, Amelia even Jo was not welcome at the start) and I have zero desire to see either boy in any longterm or normalish relationship, And a "coming out" story for either of them would be woefully misplaced on this show IMHO.

HEE! I love fanfiction too and have read any number of "fix it" fics out there and I love these especially...
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 00:39
Quote:
Hi Percy,
I guess that this makes sense to me in some ways, the idea
of intimacy as legitimizing a relationship in some way. For me, Sam and Dean's relationship IS special already, and to have them become intimate would be all kinds of WRONG. As to Sam/whomever and Dean/whomever, I guess I don't really care all that much. Don't get me wrong, I love a good sex scene (Sam/Madison, Sam/Dr. Cara, Sam/Unforgiven wife, Dean/monster) but for me, the meaningful romance storyline hasn't worked well (Lisa, Amelia even Jo was not welcome at the start) and I have zero desire to see either boy in any longterm or normalish relationship, And a "coming out" story for either of them would be woefully misplaced on this show IMHO.

HEE! I love fanfiction too and have read any number of "fix it" fics out there and I love these especially...
I completely agree with all of this. I love fanfiction too. With SPN, I'll admit it's almost entirely fix-it, add-on or angst total indulgence. My other big one, Mulder/Scully, it was pretty much the same with a lot of smut thrown in, hey it was the only way you were getting any on that show.

The weird thing was that many people, including my brother, were completely against M and S actually getting together. Afraid it would change the tone of the show and or that they would be all lovey dovey and show would lose its edge. And even though they had a kid, we never got a sex scene and only got like 5 kisses in the course of the show and the movies. We never even found out WHEN they got together (fan fiction HEAVEN).It just wasn't in the nature of the show (that's what fan fiction is for). But WAY before their relationship was more than a few extremely mild flirtations, it was extremely intense. The became best friends, partners, touchstones and literally went to the end of the Earth for each other. And truly whether they were actually a couple in the final telling was a moot point, they love was just as intense when it was platonic as it was later.

Now there was a ton of slash X-Files fan fiction though. It wasn't to my taste, for that show (I've indulged elsewhere but it doesn't do it for me on SPN or X-Files), but to each his or her own (with the exception of Wincest-cause no) and I never heard anyone suggest that it should actually make it on the show. But there was less sex on that show than on SPN.
E
# E 2013-02-09 09:15
OMG, X-Files was my first ever show infatuation. I was obsessed with it, never missed it, had gatherings every Friday night to have people over to sit around in the dark to watch it with me. Ah, good times! Supernatural is the only other show that I love in that same passionate obsessive way.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 09:52
Quote:
OMG, X-Files was my first ever show infatuation. I was obsessed with it, never missed it, had gatherings every Friday night to have people over to sit around in the dark to watch it with me. Ah, good times! Supernatural is the only other show that I love in that same passionate obsessive way.
Me too! To all of this! Firefly comes close but it was hindered (and maybe even helped) by not being on long. I I still have the X-Files theme as one of my ringtones. Kim Manners (and John Shiban of course)was actually why I first started watching the show. I was scared it was some male version of Charmed with a little X-Files thrown in. But then a women at work was going on and on about it and I saw Kim Manners was involved and decided to give it a try. SO HAPPY I DID! And the I went about convincing everyone in my family to watch it and they now love too. My sister could only watch limited X-Files, they were to scary and they would sometimes kill kids so she never got into that. But LOVES SPN.

And I still absolutely adore X-Files, but Supernatural has definitively taken its place for true obsession for a while now. There is some stuff X-Files did better. But I've always SPN kicks its ass on mythology, what's your opinion?
E
# E 2013-02-09 18:58
I agree on the mythology part; X-Files got a little (a lot!) muddled after season 6, and I began to loose interest. No disrespect intended to the actor, but I couldn't have cared less for Agent Dogget. I am pretty sure though, that X-Files was the show to introduce a long running mythology that we learned about little by little over the run of the series, stemming from a family tragedy deep in the character's past. It was new then, and as the show got older, it got pretty complicated and contradictory. I definately think that the showrunners of Supernatural have learned how to handle things better. They have of course made some head scratching moves, but all in all, pretty consistent for an 8 year old show.

I agree about the obsession part too; X-Files was my first love, my first foray into fandom of any kind, but Supernatural is my great obsession. I never posted on any online forums until Supernatural, I never even knew fan conventions existed, I didn't pay much attention to writers, producers or directors or had any real interest in the actor's actual lives before supernatural. I know WAAAAAYYYYY too much about all if it now. This show could stay on until the boys are in their 40's and I'd still be watching!
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-02-09 19:06
Quote:
I agree about the obsession part too; X-Files was my first love, my first foray into fandom of any kind, but Supernatural is my great obsession. I never posted on any online forums until Supernatural, I never even knew fan conventions existed, I didn't pay much attention to writers, producers or directors or had any real interest in the actor's actual lives before supernatural. I know WAAAAAYYYYY too much about all if it now. This show could stay on until the boys are in their 40's and I'd still be watching!
Exactly the same for me :lol:

I'm so obsessed with Supernatural that my family/friends think I've gone nutty (except my sister, who reminded me that I was once obsessed with the Hardy Boy books lol). I also loved the X-Files and joked about finding Mulder and Scully when I visited Vancouver (where my brother lives). But on my last trip to Vancouver, I actually did find the Winchesters (or saw them filming). And on my next trip to Vancouver I'm going to VanCon.

Just a bit obsessed & still a tad embarrassed by it :oops:
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-09 19:31
Sorry for butting in but I had to jump on the obsessed with X-files bandwagon. It got a little iffy for me in the latter years but I hung in. E your last paragraph could have been written by me.

Supernatural is one of the greats and even though I might have a quibble or two I can't imagine not watching it until the end. They might not get everything right (no show does) but they get more right than any other series I've ever watched.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 19:54
I really loved a lot of S7 of X-Files, but yeah the mythology got so bogged down there was really no place for it to go. I was really amazed how well SPN, this little show I'd barely heard of, did on creating movement and even wrapping up parts of the storyline even as it expand the set up for next season. Having seen so many shows fail at this, I couldn't believe how well they tied things together. Even with such a complicated history. And I still think they do an excellent job.

X-Files was afraid of ending things and basically waited until there was no choice but to do so. But in doing so what endings that have often felt limited, convoluted and unsatisfying. I don't know if it was the threat of always being cancelled or what, but they end things constantly. The found their father S1, killed the demon S2, sent Dean to Hell S3 (sob), released Lucifer S4, Sam jumped into the cage S5 (sob), brought down Sam's wall S6, sent Dean to Purgatory s7. There is this constant progression of things ending and other stories beginning without forgetting the past (mostly). Such a fantastic show.

I never posted anywhere before either and the only fan conventions I knew of were Star Trek. I did pay SOME attention to writers and directors. IE Kim Manners and writers Darin Morgan and Vince Gillagan on X-Files might have been my favorites. But I can tell every episode that Edlund, Carver, Kripke and Gamble have done. And can make a pretty good guess with a good portion of the others.

But I had no idea, Gillian was pregnant s2 on X-Files until it began to air and they were doing that hide-behind-a-d esk-or-table thing. But now I know when their WIVES are pregnant. And I watch the cons on youtube and try to scrape to money together to go to another one. Yeah, pretty obsessed. HA!
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-09 20:58
This has turned into the "Why we love Supermatural" thread. You expressed one of reasons why this show is unique. Other shows throw an intriguing batch of mysteries at viewers but never reveal much. They keep the carrot dangling to keep interest but it can backfire. This show is so good at letting us get the carrot sometimes while adding more carrots simultaneously AND weaving it all together pretty seemlessly (usuallly).

I think the amazing people Jared and Jensen are add to the whole Supernatural experience. I would never have considered going to a con for any other show that I've watched. Now, even though I can't afford it, I am determined to attend at least one one. I WILL find a way.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-08 23:50
percysowner, I loved how you explained this. It was a lot of what I was trying to say but you said it much better.
MelT
# MelT 2013-02-08 14:35
I've asked this myelf. Actually wondered it about myself, because I do like some slash fanfic every once in a while. Honestly, I think it's an unanswerable question. I concluded this due to a conversation with my husband. He said, "I love lesbians. I don't know why; I just do.". I realized then that people don't ask men why THEY like hot tutu on tutu action, because we know it's just sexy to them. Basically, its just sort of a turn on.
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-08 16:23
Quote:
I don't know if I can help you here. Yes I ship certain couples on certain shows, but for the most part my shipping stays happily off in fanfiction land. I neither want or need it on the show. I enjoy fanfiction because if expands the boundaries of the show in ways the show won't or can't due to many factors, social acceptance, budget (dragons on Supernatural had to be human looking) or simply having the show making decisions that viewers don't like. The number of fix-it fics for Sam's not looking for Dean is considerable.

I think part of shipping is because our society has told us repeatedly that the only way a relationship is special or true is if it is sexual. Almost any media TV or movies makes romantic love the center. So people who see a strong bond that they don't want to break and they make it sexual as well because we have been told over and over that sex means people are permanently together. It's a narrow view of relationships, but it is pretty prevalent. Plus TV shows cast good looking actors who generate chemistry. Again, modern culture says that chemistry leads to sex.

One of my big ships was on Angel between Wesley and Lilah. They actually had them in a relationship at one time but Fred was always the one Wesley loved. So I sought out fics where Wesley realized that Lilah was a better match and fell in love with her, while still watching and going along with the Wesley/Fred pairing that the show was giving me.

As to slash parings, it's not that people think they have any chance of having a relationship with Sam or Dean or Castiel or Benny. It's a simple fantasy of having good looking boys taking off their clothes and acting on feelings that aren't in canon. It's an erotic fantasy nothing more. Some fans want to see it translated onto the screen. As I said, I'm not one of those, especially with Supernatural, because any romance does not fit into the structure of the show, IMHO.

In regard to this season, I think things might have gone better if the writers had decided to cast Ty Olsen as Andrew, the veterinarian that Sam took the dog to and who Sam bonded with. The fandom responds well to good looking male guest stars and not so much to female ones. It might have made Sam's story go down better with fans. The writers also seem to have a hard time writing female characters, so that might have improved that outlook. However that scenario would only have worked if they made SAM bi, because again, the culture sees sexual, romantic relationships as being a priority over friendship and even family.

I hope I didn't ramble too much.
Quote:
I don't know if I can help you here. Yes I ship certain couples on certain shows, but for the most part my shipping stays happily off in fanfiction land. I neither want or need it on the show. I enjoy fanfiction because if expands the boundaries of the show in ways the show won't or can't due to many factors, social acceptance, budget (dragons on Supernatural had to be human looking) or simply having the show making decisions that viewers don't like. The number of fix-it fics for Sam's not looking for Dean is considerable.

I think part of shipping is because our society has told us repeatedly that the only way a relationship is special or true is if it is sexual. Almost any media TV or movies makes romantic love the center. So people who see a strong bond that they don't want to break and they make it sexual as well because we have been told over and over that sex means people are permanently together. It's a narrow view of relationships, but it is pretty prevalent. Plus TV shows cast good looking actors who generate chemistry. Again, modern culture says that chemistry leads to sex.

One of my big ships was on Angel between Wesley and Lilah. They actually had them in a relationship at one time but Fred was always the one Wesley loved. So I sought out fics where Wesley realized that Lilah was a better match and fell in love with her, while still watching and going along with the Wesley/Fred pairing that the show was giving me.

As to slash parings, it's not that people think they have any chance of having a relationship with Sam or Dean or Castiel or Benny. It's a simple fantasy of having good looking boys taking off their clothes and acting on feelings that aren't in canon. It's an erotic fantasy nothing more. Some fans want to see it translated onto the screen. As I said, I'm not one of those, especially with Supernatural, because any romance does not fit into the structure of the show, IMHO.

In regard to this season, I think things might have gone better if the writers had decided to cast Ty Olsen as Andrew, the veterinarian that Sam took the dog to and who Sam bonded with. The fandom responds well to good looking male guest stars and not so much to female ones. It might have made Sam's story go down better with fans. The writers also seem to have a hard time writing female characters, so that might have improved that outlook. However that scenario would only have worked if they made SAM bi, because again, the culture sees sexual, romantic relationships as being a priority over friendship and even family.

I hope I didn't ramble too much.
Quote:
Hi Kristin, Welcome aboard. I had a question for you as you seem to be open to the whole issue of Dean's sexual preferences that has been a big part of fandom in recent years. I only ask this of you because you seem to be a "shipper" so forgive me if I have made assumptions that aren't true here. And additionally, I ask this with all sincerity, because sometimes a poster's tone can get lost in translation and I don't want you to think I am snarking or criticizing; this is a legitimate question asked in all sincerity based on my own confusion over the wincest/destiel/sastiel thing. Why is there such a huge part of the fandom looking for sexual intentions between the main characters of this show, wheather that be Dean/Cas, Sam/Cas, Dean/Benny or even Dean/Sam (just no, no, no IMHO). I really don't get it. Honestly, I just don't understand why so many fans seem to want this to happen? And fans DO want this to happen it seems. I am not opposed to it by any means (except the Sam/Dean, just no, No, NO!), but I find it confusing non-the-less.

I mean, if you are a red-blooded heterosexual female who has set up one of the boys as a type of sexual fantasy, (yes, we all do TOO do it!) why would you want to make him metaphorically unavailable to the female species by making him prefer men? I really don't understand this at all. To me, gay men are unavailable no matter how attractive or flirty or awesome they may be. For me, this is just such a fantasy killer to think that they are not interested in the entire female species.

And conversely, if you are a red-blooded lesbian female, why would you care if any of the main characters were gay or straight? You wouldn't be interested either way would you because they either like other men and so are not interested in you, or they ARE interested in you, but you aren't interested in them in that way.... like Charlie.

Sorry, I am just truly baffled by the entire notion... is anyone else as confused as I am? Can anyone who likes shipping tell me what the appeal is, cause it's currently lost on me.
There have been other gay comments in prior seasons. When Sam talks about fairy tales Dean says"Could you be more gay?" Several times when they rent a room, they are asked if they want a king sized bed or someone tells them the hotel is open to all orientations. Sam even tells Dean people think Dean is gay because he is over compensating with his macho attitude. the first larping convention had gay Sam and Dean imitators. So not the first time we have heard such reference. Growing up around boys and currently around teenagers, there seems to be a lot of teasing( unfortunately bullying) about this topic in real life. The writers are reflecting society and maybe it is there way of approaching a subject that needs exposure. Dean is flattered and awkward as he trips over the table- it unsettles him. Isn't he expressing how some people react? and how folks are perceived v. reality. It's a theme throughout the series. I just wonder if it wasn't overly gratuitous in this episode so there could be some Dean humor to lighten the dark topic. Fans have fantasies with or without the show. Sometimes, the lines are so obvious, sometimes not. Sometimes it is thru the physical proximity of Dean and Cas. Straight and gay people think what you want. It's okay. Both brothers have had many female sexual partners which does not preclude other possibilities. Just saying, whatever works for you. The line about the lock and key will always be Sam's from the French mistake so to hear it resoound for Sam from the old Man of Letters was profound. Of course, Sam drops keys getting into the car when Dean first meets the Golem. Those pesky keys; opened the hell gate originally.
E
# E 2013-02-09 09:19
Hi Debbab, I guess my original point was that I am not sure why the Fans are so interested, not so much about the show itself. I love all the little moments that the show throws out there, and they've been doing it since season 1; little Michael asking Dean if they want a king or two queens, Dean teasing Sam about having dolls and dressing them up, "antiquers?" etc...
Fun stuff!
E
# E 2013-02-08 21:59
This is just... what an awesome response, I am chortling away like a loon!
E
# E 2013-02-08 22:01
Yikes!! MeLT this was for you!!!
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-02-07 20:51
Love2boys: Eeeeeee! And one more for good measure:Eeeeee!
Thought this was a lovely, lovely episode. Dean was precious, Sam was geeking -out. The Batcave and Golem and that beautiful ending and Sam 's hair which I normally pay no attention to, was aaiiight!
Meg
# Meg 2013-02-07 21:19
I really enjoyed the episode and your review of it is well done. I think that the nod to Cas was wonderful and felt in character. Sam and Dean both felt right character wise which I loved because some episodes, they just feel a bit off. Their new home is great. I love that they have something of their own now. I think that the story in general was good too.
Amy
# Amy 2013-02-07 22:25
This is the first episode in years that I have truely and sincerely loved. Now if the first ten epiosdes had only not happened....

Love.
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-07 22:58
At first I thought is was just a one on episode with some humor that did not quite make it. I already re-watched it today and agree with the positive review. Felt that much was left on the editing floor b/c had to squeeze into 42 minutes. More commercials at the end than usual. Sam is back. That he uttered sonofbitch brought him back as an equal to Dean. He was in his glories and still got action scenes. Breaking out the fine whiskey- they are men and Sam is okay and Dean is okay with Sam being okay. Loved the tie in to legacy and grandfathers. In retrospect one of the better episodes and it referenced the larger arc. Edlund's and Sgricia were all over it. Agree mostly with the review, thought the gay moment let Dean be flattered and awkward, but was it appropriate? The commentary on Nazis and what defines evil well written. Quentin Tarentino- are you watching?
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-07 23:08
Did the window in the car get broken again when the Golem attacked the brothers? How is Dean's spleen? He recovers so quickly. Amazing acting by Hal Linden, wish there could have been more. Someone taller than Sam... perfect casting. And the new wardrobe and hair for both brothers, but especially Sam. Woah. Liked how the captions showed time sequence of events, more real. I do think that Babe needs to be hidden and not left outside the new crib as it seems it is just sitting on the road. Small detail,but Babe means a lot to Dean. As I said before, second viewing I caught a lot more of the homage to Tarentino's Inglorious Basterds and the social commentary-it had to be deliberate.
Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-02-07 23:35
I'll be honest, I've loved the last few episodes of this season. I've enjoyed the season as a whole but really loved the last 3 episodes.

"Everyone Hates Hitler" particularly resonated with me for several reasons. One, we got to see Sam in his more scholarly element, rather than the hunt which really has always been more Dean's element. Not that they can't do both, but I think Dean has always preferred hunting and Sam has preferred research. I love that the MoL gives Sam a way to feel more in his element and that his geeky-side is useful, rather than strange. Two, I thought Dean was a hoot in this episode. When has Dean NOT taken advantage of small luxuries, like a good shower, or a cold beer? Too me, it felt like he was settling back into being himself, rather than the honed, precise hunter forged in Purgatory and suffering from vestiges of PTSD. Last, I really enjoyed the ending of this episode. I didn't see it as Dean was happy because Sam was happy. I think Dean was glad that Sam had found a way to be himself within the world of hunting, and it was a recognition that having a group like the MoL might actually be useful. And if it's going to be useful, who would Dean trust more to lead the effort? If anyone else tried to resurrect the MoL, I am sure that Dean would have met the attempt with suspicion, distrust and more than a few smart-alecky comments. Rightfully so, given Dean's past. But, because it's Sammy, there's a chance that the MoL might actually be useful. And darn it, it was nice to see the toast at the end, which we all noticed was missing from "Citizen Fang".

And, I loved Aaron's character and his realization of his own legacy and the golem. Whoever brought up the idea of a new extended network above, nailed it. I hadn't thought further than Garth, Kevin and Cass, but thought it was a good point. Just loved this episode and can't wait to see the rest of the bat cave!
Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-02-08 18:12
Whoops. Just re-read my email and realized that I meant "Torn and Frayed", rather than "Citizen Fang". Sorry about that.
sucharita
# sucharita 2013-02-07 23:36
Lovely review for a epic episode. You just pretty much summarized what I was feeling.
winmomwannabe
# winmomwannabe 2013-02-08 02:07
"Oh, but I hear the purists, “This show is about Sam and Dean out there together, hunting.” No, it was about that in season one. It hasn’t been that way ever since the special children were introduced. As more beings were introduced into their universe, the more profound and complex things got. Their simple ways are long done, so it’s nice to finally see something come of all that rather than Sam and Dean floundering with no resources, like last season. "

I couldn't agree with you more. Of course I loved some of the early days, but times change, lives change, life happens.

Since I had so much trouble even getting to see this episode I was very high strung by the time I finally got to watch this morning. (Damn DirectTV for dropping CW!) Anyway, I was hypersensitive to everything in the episode. The slightest humor made me laugh out loud. I shouted out loud to my computer when the boys used code, like the old days. I said "Oh Sammy" when I saw him truly in his element. And of course I shook my head and smiled when Dean talked about the shower.

But best of all, I cried at the ending scene. Tears of joy as the mother in me came out and it was like seeing 'my boys' back in sync and finally happy.(Now I'm not an idiot, I know it won't last). They didn't have to 'talk' about it. I know a lot of us miss their talks in the car, but as long as they've been together and being brothers the looks say it all. The small toast and content on their faces. Exactly what MEN would do. Sigh........... .....tearing up again! :-*

You mentioned everything I loved about this episode, so who am I to come up with something better. Thanks Alice. This episode is going to make it even harder to see them at my first con in Vegas and not melt or cry!
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-02-08 03:50
Thanks for the review, Alice.

I too loved this episode. That's two episodes in a row now that I've watched all the way through and thoroughly enjoyed, which is a first for me this season.

I think S8 has finally started for me now. I won't be re-watching 1 -11 but I've already re-watched Ep.12 many times and I know that I'll be re-watching this episode many times too.

As soon as I heard Dean say 'little brother' I knew that I was going to love this episode. I kind of just melted right at that point.

Loved how protective Dean was, how he was instantly on alert the second he heard that Sam was being followed, loved the little bit of Hurt!Sam we got - I do love me some Hurt!Sam/Protec tive!Dean. Loved that Sam was so content in amidst all those books. I love love love that the boy has finally found his place in the world. It's just wonderful to see Sam happy. And, yeah...his hair...and the sweater...just beautiful...

The last scene was wonderful, Sam happily buried in his cataloging and books, Dean's 'good', Dean relaxing and contented and happy that Sam has found a place in the world where he fits and is happy...just such wonderful brotherly goodness. Loved Aaron and the Golem. Dean in the bathrobe, Sam warming his hands. Great stuff. Loved it all.
magichappening
# magichappening 2013-02-08 08:12
Sam warming his hands over a salt and burn says it all about the strange life the Winchesters lead (and Vancouver!). Genius.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-02-08 07:56
Thanks for the glowing review Alice. I thought this episode was just perfect. I'm always happy to see some Nazi butt kicking, they so deserve it! :lol:

Quoting Alice:
Quote:
He puts away the beers and pours them some fine scotch instead.
I loved this scene so much. It's so great how they don't have to talk to communicate. And Dean is happy to see his little bro happy. Called for some good Scotch instead of their regular beer. Made me tear up, but with happiness this time. :cry: I think they are finally getting to be in a good place with each other again. :roll:
judyann
# judyann 2013-02-08 08:46
Alice, I agree this was one of the best eposides of the season so far. Mr. Edlund did a great job on this eposide. I agree about how he closed loops-like with the electric and water in the new place The impala just has magic properties since it gets fixed so easly. The season is getting better and I can't wait to see the next eposide.
saltwatergal
# saltwatergal 2013-02-08 09:12
I think S8 has finally started for me now.

I second the above thought.
The brotherly moments were understated and so welcome.
Its why I watch!

Thanks to Ben Edlund!
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-02-08 09:16
Alice,
"I’ve already read fan concern that this show will start taking plots where Sam stays behind working the bat cave while Dean, with possibly Castiel, goes out and does the hunts. Did that happen in this case? No, Sam found a lead and both he and Dean took off to Eastern Pennsylvania (from Lebanon, Kansas) to check it out. If Sam’s current quest is information, then he needs to be out in the field too. Plus he knows that he has to be there to have his brother’s back."

Hope you're right about this. I have lost my faith in JC and the writers but am willing to wait and see. My fear is that the newer writers will not follow through with what BE has done here.
I agree that this is the most we've seen for Sam this season and I enjoyed the episode.
Thanks.
Carolin
# Carolin 2013-02-08 09:25
Wonderful review and spot-on!

I was very, very happy with last night's episode and I am sincerely hoping the show is headed further into this direction.

It is delightful to see how perfectly the "case-of-the-we ek" scenario and the advancement of the story arc can both be incorporated in an episode!

And the hefty dose of character development we saw in this episode leaves me hopeful and excited for the rest of the season.

A+ for "Everybody hates Hitler".
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-02-08 12:18
Loved the episode Alice.The thing is I have liked in varying degrees all the episodes after this hiatus.In season 7 and season 8 (beginning),I had loved the first episode but after that I had some problems with the next episodes (not all but the hits were sporadic, even the ones I had problems with had their good points). This time I liked the first episode,enjoyed the second and loved the third...I am Happy.
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-08 17:58
Aw, thats nice to hear anonymousN :-)
Alex
# Alex 2013-02-08 12:30
Great review, thank you for sharing!
This episode was very well written, Edlund didn't disappoint.
I'm so happy that the boys have a place to call home and grateful that there was character development and Cas was mentioned, I really needed that.
Also, this is perfection:
"Oh, but I hear the purists, “This show is about Sam and Dean out there together, hunting.” No, it was about that in season one. It hasn’t been that way ever since the special children were introduced. As more beings were introduced into their universe, the more profound and complex things got. Their simple ways are long done, so it’s nice to finally see something come of all that rather than Sam and Dean floundering with no resources, like last season. "
Yirabah
# Yirabah 2013-02-08 13:31
I loved that episode.

Dito to everything Alice

Even though I, as a German, needed the translations for most of the Nazis since I didn’t understand them. I also enjoyed that Jared had to look up to someone for a change.

And I love what Jarry Wanek and his team did to the vampires nest:
www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/images/seasonsix/LiveFreeandTwiHard/TH070.jpg

http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/seasoneight-gallery.html?AG_MK=0&AG_form_paginInitPages_0=1&AG_form_albumInitFolders_0=SeasonEight/EverybodyHatesHitler&AG_form_scrollTop=1401&AG_form_scrollLeft=0&AG_MK=0
Dang it didn't pull up the two room pictures. Maybe Alice can change that for me.
Alice
# Alice 2013-02-08 15:43
As you may or may not know, Home of the Nutty is down for the time being. I can link these to our gallery. There is a trick that's unknown, so perhaps I'll make it known. If you want to link to any photo in our gallery, type in www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/images. Now, this is for "Everybody Hates Hitler" so that's the SeasonEight directory. Get the name of the photo in the gallery, and it goes like this!

http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/images/SeasonEight/EverybodyHatesHitler/EH019.JPG

Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-02-08 18:38
I enjoy the new perspectives I gain from reading the comments on this site. I don't always agree with everyone, but I do learn about the different perspectives in a civil atmosphere (particularly relative to other sites).

And the code line from Sam, "That would explain why I have something stuck to my shoe." Was it just me? Or did anyone else flash back to the episode where Sammy loses the rabbit foot to Bela, gets horrible bad luck, gets gum on his shoe and then, looses his shoe. And just had to laugh out loud.
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-08 19:05
I loved that whole code sequence. Two or three sentences and they have a fully operational plan. Course it didn't actually work, but you know what they say ... no one expects uncontrolled Golems ...

For some reason I found when Dean asked if Sam wanted help Sam's response of 'Yes, please' was totally adorable, it was the 'please' that got me, that boy is very well brought up :D

Yes I know that is an odd thing to have gotten out of that conversation... ;-)
Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-02-08 19:18
Actually I got that out of the conversation too. :-)
It made think of all the times we've seen their manners in action. When talking to Missouri, or Ellen, or their Dad. But honestly, if I wrote about everything this episode made me think, feel, etc, I would have a very long, disjointed article about 1 episode. Too many subtle references to other things. Just can't remember them all when typing.
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-08 19:25
I used to find that by the time I had written and re written and checked and added subclauses to all my posts I had been at it so long I had gotten logged off the site :D

Alice has fixed that issue now so it is way better for the likes of us.
Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-02-08 23:09
Wow. I am glad Alice fixed that. I would never be able to finish before I got logged off! :D
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-02-09 01:01
Quote:
I used to find that by the time I had written and re written and checked and added subclauses to all my posts I had been at it so long I had gotten logged off the site :D
Me too. :D
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-02-10 03:59
Eilf & Sopisa
It got so bad at one time, I would type what I wanted to say in a word document then copy it across. It just got too frustrating otherwise
Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-02-10 11:05
kaz1, that was exactly what I thought I would have to do. I couldn't think of another way around. Glad it's fixed.
Teresa Pezzino
# Teresa Pezzino 2013-02-08 19:33
My biggest moment in this episode is the scene in the 'batcave in the beginning when Dean is walking out in the robe and Sam is completely engrossed in books and the record is playing the old timey music. The line in the song is "Get thee behind me Satan". All of Sam's life since he was 6 months old has revolved around Lucifer - being primed to be his vessel, being manipulated to get him out of his cage, putting him back, enduring many years of torment from him and even losing his mind to him and finally, beginning to heal in spite of him. He has been frozen in one place, figuring out what to do. He now has a direction, one that he can make his own. This moment marked Sam's true turning point and brought me to some serious tears. Edlund is a genius.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-02-08 19:45
Quote:
The line in the song is "Get thee behind me Satan".
Wow! That's a great pick-up. I must go back and listen more carefully. I just love the attention to detail that goes into every episode. So many little things that all mean something :sigh:

One thing I noticed on my second viewing of this episode was the number-plate on the car of the Nazi necoromancers. It was HTR-58X3. Not sure of the significance of the numbers, but HTR is surely referencing Hitler.

It's not as profound as the line in the song, but just another example of the great attention to detail. This is one of the MANY ways that the Supernatural creators impress me & why I love our 'little show' so much :-)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-08 23:58
Teresa, this was a great catch! I didn't even notice that.
shadowhund
# shadowhund 2013-02-09 07:58
Thanks for this reply Teresa! Since I am german, I noticed the song and something about "Satan" but couldn't understand the whole sentence in the song.


I would still like to see some looks when Lucifer is mentioned, like in the last episode with Henry when he told about Lucifer there was nothing no reaction, no look between Sam and Dean, I really miss those little hints in the scenes, in the acting, directing, writing. It's not up to Jared to give us Sam's history, all things should come together in writing, directing, the history of this man..Sam ...and also the legacy of Erik Kripke.
The show is right now all about legacies what about Erik Kripkes legacy of his protagonist Sam?
Teresa Pezzino
# Teresa Pezzino 2013-02-09 09:29
I think Sam has decided to let the whole Lucifer thing go - been there, done that and if it were me, I would refuse to give one more ounce of myself to that horror. No need for Dean and Sam to look at each other for the same reasons, in my opinion. For some reason this feels true to me.
Tami
# Tami 2013-02-08 19:48
I thought it was interesting that Ben chose Lebanon, Kan., for the Men of Letters' headquarters. Lebanon is the geographic center of the contiguous United States, so it would be a central location for a group that works all around the country. And it's a good place for Sam and Dean to be able to go anywhere at a moment's notice.
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-08 20:13
Do they have a giant telescope? Why do they have a giant telescope? (last scene)

Also the huge building above the batcave - is that part of it I wonder - are there vast archives (and a magic reactor to make electricity and hot water)?
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-02-08 20:18
It's going to be so much fun exploring the batcave a little bit more each week. I wonder if it's next week that we'll see Dean putting posters on his bedroom wall... I'm dying to know what posters he picks. Any guesses? :lol:
saltwatergal
# saltwatergal 2013-02-09 13:57
Hi eilf

Finally they have a telescope! Its an old time reflector type of course. If your gonna dabble in Kabbalah then you best study up on symbolism and Astrology. No surprise to me that the Men of letters would believe in the benefit of Astrological reference. Most likely they would be erecting Horary charts or the branch of Astrology that is "event" oriented. Next we will be discussing the Golden Dawn ! I am so stoked and happy that the writers have gotten the go ahead to or have found someone with "the secret knowledge to include this stuff in the show. After all the show IS called Supernatural.. Its finally growing up and into what I always hoped it would. In the beginning many of the symbols drawn on the windows and doors were close to those we use in actual astrology. Tantalizingly close but just a little off ... recently (this season and last) they have strayed... and I wondered why. Truly an unknown to me...I was disappointed. However the last few episodes I have noticed that the realism is beginning to return. Yeah..and now even a reflector! I must admit I was yelling at the tv with so much gusto.. my husband had to come and check on me! Being "closet occultists" :lol: the MOL's arc has become the highlight of my tv week!!!
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-08 20:29
Well I guess it's a tie between:



and


(Alice can we have a thread for Dean's bedroom posters?) :-)
zazreil
# zazreil 2013-02-08 20:31
Kripke and Sera were about taking the world apart, nothing lasted for Sam and Dean, But Carver seems to be about world building. He is giving Sam and Dean the connections that Kripke and Sera stripped away. Charlie as their computer whiz (and I do like that actress), Garth as the great coordinator, now Aaron with ties to the Judah Initiative and Kabbalistic magic which might come in handy for dealing with certain Demons and suspicious angels. I love it. I also love how he is putting Sam and Dean back together again. The episode with Charlie two weeks ago wast the first sign, when Sam said fun would do them both good I squeeeeed like a teeny bopper. Now these last two episodes watching the quiet cameradrie resurface, makes me so happy

Zaz
sharon pence
# sharon pence 2013-02-08 22:04
I could see Dean putting up some old Antonio Vargas pinups to go with the decor and atmosphere of the cave.
or some old garage car pinups.
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-08 22:19
*looks up Antonio Vargas, gets actor* *looks up Antonio Vargas pinup ... ah!*
I learned something new this evening - thanks
I didn't know those pics were all done by the same person, they used put them on planes didn't they?

Now as for the garage car pin-ups I know what you mean by THOSE but I have a funny image in my head of Dean putting up pin-ups of cars instead of girls :D
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-08 22:30
You know, like this:

Leah
# Leah 2013-02-09 07:15
THATS funny eilf!
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-09 12:33
Thank you :D I couldn't resist!
sharon pence
# sharon pence 2013-02-09 00:35
Or a poster of a collection of hood ornaments from vintage cars
Peggy
# Peggy 2013-02-09 05:38
Alice, thanks for highlighting all the good things of this episode, which I almost overlooked by being not so comfortable and even a bit disappointed of Edlund using the Nazi/Jewish cliche so excessively. I wasn't sure if I liked this episode when finishing it, although I was positive it had it's awesome moments like Dean having a gay encounter or the new place they found. And, of course, the Golem was just great! I immediatedly knew what he was when the connection to the Jewish was built up.
But seriously: Nazi necromanters? And a blond, blue-eyed, smart looking German who hunt down Rabbis? Isn't that old by now? *sigh*
But well, I may just being biased with being German myself. (BTW: Nazis with heavy American accent are hilarious! :D )
It seems by being frustrated with the overall setting of the episode I missed some of the important character interactions you mentioned above. Guess, I am off to rewatch it with a fresh point of view right now. :)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 18:04
You think Nazi necromancers have been overdone? I really want to know the shows you're watching. :-)
:Leah
# :Leah 2013-02-09 18:44
:-) :-)
Peggy
# Peggy 2013-02-09 18:51
Haha! Well, no, I did not mean the necromancer thing per se, of course ;) ... just the "Hm, we need a superlative for necromancers... let's hybrid them with Nazis because it doubles the evil implication." It felt so forced.
But, well, just my two cents.
kaj
# kaj 2013-02-09 08:41
I loved the episode, still love the episode. :lol:

But, I can't help but think that Henry would much better appear at the beginning of the season. So instead of getting soap operaish storyline we'll get this more interesting arch. Henry appears to short IMHO.

It'll be more interesting if Henry somehow teleports himself after Sam run from Dick's lab and both of them help each other to cope with the loss. Sam with losing Dean and Henry with losing John but They gain family in each other. It'll be so beautiful.

Then, with Henry's knowledge maybe he can help Sam track down Dean. I'm sure in MOL cave there's a book or two or even manuscript of real experience on Purgatory and Leviathan. They can make Sam working together with Henry to look for Dean but still make the original storyline with Dean getting out by himself with Benny's help.

That alternate storyline will put Sam in a better place in fandom and not being a "runner". I just want to see Sam's effort to look for Dean. It doesn't matter if he succeeds or just a little but too late in helping Dean get out. I'm a person who appreciate effort and value means more than result. Result is good but not if you achieve it with using bad way.

I hate, hate, hate Amelia storyline.
This MOL and JI storyline definitely tied up with Naomi storyline and Cas. It's richer and open up to many possibilities and new legend for the boys.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 10:05
Totally love this idea! Really, it's fantastic. But alas it is not to be. Though,I still have a smidgen of hope at moments that they are going somewhere good with all of Sam's storyline from the beginning of the year. If they can fix the Sam storyline than this whole season and most the episodes are a 10 for me (or at least a 9 1/2 because even with explanation Amelia is really annoying). If they can't then I will probably skip most of the first half on rewatches, because it's just too sad.
kaj
# kaj 2013-02-09 10:38
It is, right? :-)

Just imagine it. Trash the Amelia storyline and you won't be missing anything. Bring Henry sooner, probably in episode 1 and 2. It'll be perfect and also won't be far reaching and tie up nicely with the whole Tablet arch, Naomi, Benny and Crowley. It'll be a perfect and compact storyline.

Because watching Sam's FB is like dropping into Alice's rabbit hole anyway. Too Dreamlike and not that real. It's akin to LARping on Sam's part. It doesn't move forward the plot and doesn't have correlation with the plot, only creating artificial angst between the brothers.

But, hey, there's still hope for them to fix Sam's storyline and tie the whole Amelia fiasco with the bigger arch. Remember the shadowy person outside the house? Judging from the wide brimmed hat and coat, could it be another lost member of MOL or even the Nazis? Perhaps one of JI?
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 10:41
Quote:
It is, right? :-)
Remember the shadowy person outside the house? Judging from the wide brimmed hat and coat, could it be another lost member of MOL or even the Nazis? Perhaps one of JI?
I still have hope of them fixing it but this won't be part of it, I guess. They said that was supposed to be Don. Ugh. I hate that storyline.
kaj
# kaj 2013-02-09 10:46
Quote:
Quote:
It is, right? :-)
Remember the shadowy person outside the house? Judging from the wide brimmed hat and coat, could it be another lost member of MOL or even the Nazis? Perhaps one of JI?
I still have hope of them fixing it but this won't be part of it, I guess. They said that was supposed to be Don. Ugh. I hate that storyline.
Darn it!!! Another lost opportunity there guys! (shouting to the writers)
Now, I'm ready to ditch the whole Amelia storyline. I admit I mostly fast forward Sam's FB during my re-watch and hey, turns out that I can follow the storyline better without it. :lol:
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-02-09 17:08
i'm sorry but where did you hear that. i've never heard anyone anywhere say it was don. show didn't say or even hint that it was don. as far as i'm concerned, we still don't know anything about the shadowy figure.

i don't think nor have i ever thought it to be don. since show still hasn't cleared this up in any way, shape, or form, i'm not making any assumptions.

it's still my hope that one day we'll finally get the truth on who was watching sam that nite.

so far, imo, we've got nothing on that. :o
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 17:57
I'm sorry. I don't remember. I have been weird in my spoilers this season. I was determined not to watch any this year. I was doing really good until I started freaking out about Sam's storyline and I then started looking up all I could find. And then I would make myself stop, but then when I start freaking out again I read a bunch more all at once. So I don't remember which batch that was in or who said it. I THINK it was Carver around the time mid season finale but I can't swear to that. If I can find it, I'll link it.

But I suppose they've never said anything in the show so really they could change there minds on that without reconning. And I don't even remember the exact wording, I just remember thinking, 'oh so it's Don' and being really disappointed. But I actually prefer to think I misread it so let's go with that.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-02-09 18:32
Quote:
I still have hope of them fixing it but this won't be part of it, I guess. They said that was supposed to be Don. Ugh. I hate that storyline.
I personally don't think it was Don. For one, Don came across as being fairly genuine in the scene in the pub, where he said it was Amelia's decision to stay with him or Sam. I know it was a brief encounter, but I can't imagine him lurking outside the house to spy on Sam & Amelia after we had seen his mature conversation with Sam.

Secondly, this isn't the only unanswered question from the flashbacks. We still don't know who told Benny about the portal in purgatory. I maintain that it is all angel manipulation (which is something I've expressed on posts earlier in the season).

The angels had someone watching Sam, they had Benny helping Dean, and they got Castiel out (and are now manipulating him). Why? Who knows. I have no clue... but it's the only thing that makes sense with those two unanswered questions from the flashbacks.

I think we are in a very interesting place now with three stories running parallel. The MoL, the tablets, and the angel manipulation... I'm so excited to see how Jeremy Carver pulls it all together :eek:

And I personally won't judge the entire season until after I've watched episode 23 :-)
E
# E 2013-02-09 19:36
They did? When? I must have missed that part? If that's the case... then they can do a ret-con and say it was someone else in episode 20 or something. If they can ret-con in an unknown grandfather and a whole secret society, then surly they can fix this too.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 20:43
I looked. I can't find this quote. So let's assume I dreamed it. I think I going to do that with the no flashbacks quote too.
E
# E 2013-02-09 19:27
I agree Kelly. I STILL think that there has to be some greater point to where they went with both Sam AND Dean for 10 whole episodes, almost half the season. Without a greater connection to a larger story, both of the brother's core stories while separated become meaningless and a waste of time. Dean's story was much better realized in general, was certainly more interesting, and at least carried a logical explanation for any OOC behavior that we saw from him. Sam's story was just... blech! No detail as to why he did anything, no real information about what he did after Dean vanished or how it affected him, and NO credible explanation for his WILDLY OOC behavior. I guess, deep down, I just don't see Jeremy Carver as that careless or clueless of either a creator of a season long arc or as a show runner. I am still holding out for an episode 22/23 bombshell that shakes up everything that we think we've learned about what has been going on. If it doesn't happen (or at least something along those lines) then I'll be like you, kind of ignoring that the first 10 episodes ever happened, and filling in a backstory for Sam that seems to make the most sense to me and going with that!
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-02-09 19:48
Quote:
I agree Kelly. I STILL think that there has to be some greater point to where they went with both Sam AND Dean for 10 whole episodes, almost half the season. Without a greater connection to a larger story, both of the brother's core stories while separated become meaningless and a waste of time. Dean's story was much better realized in general, was certainly more interesting, and at least carried a logical explanation for any OOC behavior that we saw from him. Sam's story was just... blech! No detail as to why he did anything, no real information about what he did after Dean vanished or how it affected him, and NO credible explanation for his WILDLY OOC behavior. I guess, deep down, I just don't see Jeremy Carver as that careless or clueless of either a creator of a season long arc or as a show runner. I am still holding out for an episode 22/23 bombshell that shakes up everything that we think we've learned about what has been going on. If it doesn't happen (or at least something along those lines) then I'll be like you, kind of ignoring that the first 10 episodes ever happened, and filling in a backstory for Sam that seems to make the most sense to me and going with that!
me too. :lol:
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 20:01
E, I keep thinking that too. I have pretty much loved everything else they've done this season and they've even fix a lot of last seasons problems for me. But this Sam thing is a HUGE problem for me. And you're right, without the Sam storyline having a point, the Dean one doesn't work either really, so I'm not left with much out of the first half of the season. And Carver is really terrific writer, so I have to believe he sees the flaws with this and there is some great plan in the works, because otherwise I get really pissed and then very sad.
PENNY JAIME
# PENNY JAIME 2013-02-09 10:37
Alice, maybe you can answer a question for someone (me!) who doesn't understand the way things work on a show like Supernatural. Why do they have so many different writers doing the show? Why don't they have the same people writing every week? They could have others writers like help out to get other perspectives, but why don't they keep the same writers? (Like Edlund?)
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-09 19:05
Hi Penny Jamie, I think I can explain some of it if you like. I only know about TV shows what I have seen and read but it might help.

SPN takes about 8 days to film, and I think about the same length of time to put the episodes together (which is why there are hellatuses). Long before that they have to have written them and done all the location checks, wardrobe, set building etc.

In a TV show the writers have to be available for their episode in case something tuns out to be impossible to do, also (I am guessing) they have to be available to communicate with other writers to make sure continuity doesn't get totally screwed up. I believe that is one of the showrunner's principle jobs. The writers also need the time to come up with a good idea and write it well (which should be the main part of their job but is probably just the fun bit) and that is a job in itself. Most people can't deal with inventing two to three coherent plotlines at the same time. So the writers are on a rota.

In a film the writer has done nearly all their work before they even start shooting so that can take a back seat while the shooting is going on. And even then most films are written by about 3 to 6 people. On TV they don't have that luxury and they are often making stuff up on the fly.

SPN tries to cover up all the cracks but it is hard to do. Most shows have a basic 'Bible' that helps different writers but may not account for one throwaway line in episode 3 of season 4 (for example) that appears to screw up continuity :-*

I find TV more fascinating than movies nowadays because it seems to be way more complex and a lot of the time it tries harder to make an endless storyline to entertain all of us (pretty much for free).

Directors have exactly the same issue except they have 60 people asking them questions all the time when they are directing. There is a really good video about Jensen directing, and another one about all of the directors on a couple of the box sets (which are probably on You Tube as well). The actors pretty much have no choice about being there for everything and doing bits of 3 episodes at once, out of order, which must be very confusing.

However if you want to know what being the principal, and, I believe, almost only, writer on a show does to someone look up what happened to Aaron Sorkin when he was doing the early seasons of the West Wing :-)
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-02-09 21:05
Really interesting read Eilf, thanks. One forgets how pressurised this job must be so perhaps a few continuity mess up's (the coffee shop scene with young John Winchester being asked about his father) can be forgiven.
Quote:
I find TV more fascinating than movies nowadays because it seems to be way more complex and a lot of the time it tries harder to make an endless storyline to entertain all of us (pretty much for free).
This is actually a world wide trend. TV being far more 'interactive' friendly to social media means fans get news/disclosure (read gossip) instantly. I read somewhere that nowadays actors are more interested in TV to further their career as it is just as lucrative longterm and a far more secure bet.
Alice
# Alice 2013-02-09 22:52
Well, that's a tough question to answer. Churning out a script each and every week is super hard, especially for genre shows. It takes a different kind of writing. Plus, Supernatural is suffering from what happens so often with aging shows, a turnover of writers.

A procedural like “House” is all technical facts with a character quirks thrown in, so that type of script could support a smaller rotation of writers (it didn't though). Cable shows like "Breaking Bad" only have a couple of writers on the team. The budget is so tight, the showrunner also ends up being the primary writer. They usually only have 13 episodes per season though. Supernatural, because of the 23 episodes in the season, follows the network model of having a team of writers. Bigger shows usually have 10 writers (or used to), but Supernatural only has seven.

With Supernatural, a show's mythology takes front and center and with a growing catalog of shows that must be considered, it gets to be quite a nightmare, especially if you were a writer that wasn’t there for the much heralded Eric Kripke era. I’ve interviewed Eric Kripke a few times and I can honestly say, no one drives vision better. He’s ultra charismatic and passionate. He’s also a perfectionist. That’s rare in TV. Kripke also had a close team of confidants. Kim Manners, Robert Singer, Sera Gamble, Jeremy Carver and his ultimate behind the scenes guru, Ben Edlund. I think the greatest loss to this show in the terms of writing was Eric Kripke. I heard this quote once and it fits - You can't run the Enterprise without Captain Kirk.

I don’t think Sera Gamble had the support Kripke did. She was left to twist in the wind often and she did. Supernatural lost a huge amount of it's writers after season five and a few more after season six. With an aging show, studios like Warner Brothers like the idea of putting new promising writers on that TV show for experience, and then they eventually leave to run their own shows. That's happened with Supernatural and the writer turnover has really hurt. Supernatural still has seven writers, and all of them were on the team last season. Edlund has been around since season two, Dabb and Loflin season four, Adam Glass season six, and the rest season seven (okay, Eugenie Ross Leming and Brad Buckner wrote Season One's "Route 666" and have credits in Season Two's "In My Time of Dying" before coming back in season seven).

Why doesn't Edlund write every week? Because that would drive him completely insane! That's a ton of work and the pressures would be unreal. Very few human beings can do what Aaron Sorkin did, writing all the episodes for the first four seasons of The West Wing. That eventually got him tossed off the show because he couldn't meet script deadlines and budgets. Plus, he stopped writing consistent stuff around season three. Edlund sticks around because he knows the show needs him. He already has a great career and has no ambitions for running other shows. As long as this job lets him do other side projects as well (which it does) then he’s happy.

Setting tone and consistency is the job of the showrunner, or at least the creative showrunner, who is now Jeremy Carver. He’s done a better job than Sera Gamble in that regards, but given the writing team he inherited, keeping them on vision and being aware of the show’s history, plus meeting tight studio deadlines means that uneven scripts haven’t gone away. That’s the nature of television. Hopefully the weaker writers will rotate out and better ones come in (like Robbie Thompson), and Edlund stays until the show is done. Until then, we get what we get.

Hope that answers your question!
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-02-10 00:34
Thanks for this Alice, it does put things into perspective regarding all our demands. Also when you take into account each seasons progression that become canon, it must become a logistical nightmare.

I know they had vision until the end of season five. What I don't understand, however is with the enormous costs and risks of creating, producing and running any show, why don't the plan for an expected 10 seasons. Wouldn't this create a more streamlined mythology. During conception, why not have the writers create a 10 season long plan, with a fallout plan if the show doesn't pan out? It just seems to make sense especially with the costs and pressures involved.

Does anyone know what the average lifespan is for a show? What I want to know is SPN unusual in that it is going to 10 seasons?
Alice
# Alice 2013-02-11 10:35
I'm not sure of the average life span, but on cable a show rarely goes beyond six seasons, and they usually only have an average of 13 episodes per season. On network TV, a majority of new shows (over 50 percent) don't make it past their first season. Reaching 100 episodes (usually season five) is a rare milestone. 200 episodes (ten seasons) is extremely rare and extraordinary. Sitcoms have a better chance of surviving that long than dramas, and sci-fi shows almost never get that far. Smallville was a very rare exception to the rule. I think Stargate SG1 went ten seasons as well.

The X-Files went nine seasons, but really should have ended after 7. Lost only lasted six seasons, and even a popular show like House didn't make it past 8 seasons. The only scripted shows (I'm not counting Survivor, American Idol, or Dancing With the Stars) on network TV that have more than ten seasons is Law and Order: SVU and CSI from what I can remember. NCIS is in season ten but has been renewed for 11. Grey's Anatomy is at nine but they're having trouble keeping actors. CSI NY is at nine seasons and doesn't look like it's going past that.

So, why don't they plot shows up the season 10? Because no one in their wildest dreams ever thought their show would last that long. Here's something fun that Cracked.com put out in 2010 that oh so applies to TV show lifespans. It's wickedly funny!

KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-11 16:13
I never seen this before. It is sadly pretty accurate for a lot of shows. I'm not sure how much applies to SPN though. Such as, often actors and staff start to lose interest and are actively trying to find away off the show without pissing off their fans or just stick around for the money. But both Jensen and Jared still seem really invested.

Another problem is shows often stop taking chances. And the networks push them to, not wanting to risk the cash cow, 'cause typically anything that last this long is one of the higher rated shows and has been for years. But this show has never really had that pressure I don't think. Or the show get desperate and just seem to throw everything against the wall and see what sticks. But SPN is still taking risks and most seem thought and are working well (one obvious, glaring exception that I they better correct for the end of the year) and are opening up new avenue for exploration without getting too far from the original show.

It is a hardline to walk how to you keep the show people love while keep it fresh and not letting the character stagnate and become caricatures of themselves. You want the character to grow and change but not to change so much they are unrecognizable. Plus, after so many years actors can simply get bored if they keep them in the same mold. It is very hard. But I do think they are traversing it really well- BUT THEY HAVE TO FIX SAM'S STORYLINE. ARGGH. Oops reverting again sorry.

With X-Files, much of this happened and though I don't think the last 2 seasons cancelled out the first 2. HA. They weren't BAD and still far superior to most of the crap out their. But they weren't really the X-Files either (there is no X-Files without Scully AND Mulder) and I will admit there is only like handful of scenes out of both seasons I will rewatch on a regular basis. Most of them I've only seen once or twice.

But with SPN, I still love A LOT of last season and this one. And I rewatched many of the episodes many times already.

But did I mention that I really do need them to fix Sam's storyline.
PENNY JAIME
# PENNY JAIME 2013-02-10 01:30
It did. Thank you. I love the making of stuff. The directors videos,etc. Both sides of the camera. My friends joke that as much as I love tv I missed my calling! I wish they would do a video of a weeks shooting. That would be interesting to see how they put an episode together. You know, start to finish.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-02-10 03:52
Penny Jaime
I have always thought this would be a great exercise. I would love to see how an ep is put together from inception to the final edit. TPTB at SPN are you taking note :-)
E
# E 2013-02-10 07:44
I have often wondered why Ben Edlund has stayed with the show so long. He's so clearly one of the most talented TV writers out there, and so many of my favorite Supernatural author's have been snapped up by bigger shows with bigger budgets (Kathryn Humphries, how I miss you). But, then it did occur to me that maybe BE stays because the nature of Supernatural appeals so much to his evil genius in a way that no other show ever could. Can you imagine Ben Edlund writing for a show like House or Law and Order (not a criticism, I love both of these shows), with it's long passages of clinical expository dialogue and technical jargon? I think he'd be bored to tears! No Nazi Necromancers, or "Fight the Fairies!" or valentine lovers who devour each other.
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-09 11:25
For E- The fan interest in the gay/lesbian thread has always been there. Folks get what they want to from any particular genre. Whichever view you take of one's orientation, there is always a societal underbelly of things not understood, things to fantasize about if one has an interest, an exploration or the unfamiliar, or the genre as social commentary. The Scarlet Letter and Lady Chatterlie's lover are examples from the way past, 50 Shades of Grey is the current fantasy rage fro some.As long as it does not turn into bullying, the thread does make you wonder about the entire fabric of the issue.
kaj
# kaj 2013-02-09 11:38
Thank you debbab. It's one more thing to study about human society.

Not to mention that men loves to fantasize about girl on girl action. Women too can appreciate a fantasy of the same nature, with man on man instead of girls. It's more like public secret. The one we don't talk about but know about.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 12:05
debbab, you're absolutely right. Every fandom I have ever read any fanfiction in has some slash pairings. Usually a lot. I came across it first with X-Files, in fact the was my first experience with FF and I didn't know what slash meant. I innocently clicked on 1 and I thought, 'Mulder and Krycek would not do THAT!' HA! I was way too much of a M/S shipper to read them but I had absolutely no issues with them. Or any of the other pairings. That is what fan fiction is for IMO. Indulging in things you know won't appear on the screen. If they want Mulder, Krycek and Skinner to have a threesome have at it. (you know back then I always assumed the writers of these were gay men. Yeah not so much). Or with SPN, Dean, Benny and Cas whatever combo that floats your boat.

I do have issues with trying to turn those fantasies into canon though. Because like I said previously, it has been done on other show but really earned. Even dare I say Willow and Tara on Buffy. All of a sudden, Willow was gay. It was in college, so I guess they felt like they could get away with it, since supposedly so many people experiment then. But to me it was an extremely abrupt turn around, considering they'd given no indication previously that she might swing both ways. It didn't help that I found Tara completely annoying (not as bad as Amelia but still), at least they could have had her get with someone cool. Or that I loved Oz.
lala2
# lala2 2013-02-09 19:31
I'm right there with you with Willow. Abrupt character change that made no sense. I didn't care for it. I was much more of a Willow/Oz fan anyway.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-02-09 19:54
i never even got the willow/oz thing. willow spent most of buffy in love with zander. i always thought that their friendship was special and he would eventually come to his senses...i never liked that he went for the charisma carpenter character... and having willow all of a sudden turn into a lesbian...peopl e don't become gay, they're born that way....she was way too in love with zander for me to believe she was faking it. i actually stopped watching buffy after what they did to willow's character...i never thought it made any sense.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-09 20:12
I liked really liked Willow/Zander too, but they never did anything with it really until she was with Oz (if I remember correctly) and Seth Green is such a cutie, he won me over. But Tara was an awkward (and not in a good way), meek, little mouse. I kinda liked her mildly more towards the end, but the whole storyline felt forced. Both of which is weird for Whedonverse, he usually writes terrific female characters and the storyline may be dark but rarely forced.

And I really do think the main problem with it (besides the character being lame) was that they didn't bother to earn that story. They just told us about this new reality without showing why it now existed. OMG -that completely parallels Sam/Amelia. :D
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-09 20:32
The big problem for me is that Joss made Willow gay as opposed to bi-sexual. The "gay now" comment made no sense because she was in love with Xander and Oz. Tara was a pretty week character. I didn't hate that part of the storyline, but I didn't love it either.

Alyson Hannigan is now in How I Met Your Mother and they established very early on that her character, Lily, is bi-curious and has at times been attracted to women, although she has never acted on those feelings. She is happily married to the guy she has been in love with since college, but they still throw out the idea that if he weren't in her life and the right woman came along she might consider it. If Buffy had used that kind of background, then the whole fall for Tara thing would have flowed better.
MisterGlass
# MisterGlass 2013-02-09 20:50
Thanks for the review Alice! I'm late seeing the episode but I had to express how much I enjoyed it. Beginning to end, it felt like the Supernatural I have been missing. Loved it in its entirety.

I am so glad that Sam now has his purpose. I have been wanting him to take the leadership mantle from Bobby since his passing, and it now looks like he may have that chance. Or even an improved role, as this may allow freer reign to research and explore and use his well known academic skills.

I love the idea that Sam and Dean might diverge a bit, while still staying in the family business. Sam is happiest in his research, and Dean is happiest in, er, execution of that research. They both embrace the life, and I know they will continue to hunt together, always, but this gives them both a level of freedom to hunt or abstain as they choose.

The actually felt like they were brothers that liked each other.

And I am so psyched about the golem. I had no idea how they were going to create him as a character with which they could interact and embrace, and this knocked me over. He was a real character, with anger, responsibility, and purpose, and I was mesmerized by the actor's performance. And I have no idea how the make-up department did *that* to a human being and made it so physical and real, but wow. Wow. This is the best creature effect since...I can't even think.

I would absolutely watch a spinoff centered around Aaron the non-kosher Jew and his golem fighting the Thule. I loved the dynamic between the golem and Aaron. Tradition and modernism clashing like crazy but still moving forward.

Please Ben Edlund write more episodes. This rocked in a quiet, intense, family focused way.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-02-10 03:47
MisterGlass
Quote:
Tradition and modernism clashing like crazy but still moving forward.
Lovely analysis and totally agree this is what the entire ep was about, the old facing up to the new. Both are relevant when moving forward. Well put.
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-10 22:02
Did anyone notice that the scene where Dean and Sam first meet the Golem and Aaron is the same parking space, bushes and camera angel used in "Time is on my Side"? Also the camera coverage is on Sam, but you can hear Dean say"Oh my spleen" after he is tossed into a car. Wonder if it was part of the script, or improvised. Would loved to have seen Dean when he uttered it. Director's choice. Truly a fantastic episode on several levels.