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You just know that when Ben Edlund discovered that he was writing the episode that returned Cas he bounded into the writers’ room declaring… “I’ve got the scene, you know THE SCENE!” Then he immediately regales all present with the joys of mocking (in a loving and respectful way) the fandom as to who Castiel prefers, Sam or Dean.

This whole week, after the clip of Dean praying for Castiel and Castiel responding, the fandom (aspects of it) have been loudly whining and whimpering and simpering and simmering over how Castiel answers Dean’s prayers but not Sam’s. How Castiel never liked Sam. How Castiel never acknowledged Sam’s supreme sacrifice in leaping into the cage. How Castiel…and on and on and on and – you get the idea.

Then the moment arrives, Dean prays, Sam reminds him he’s tried it three times to no avail and in a moment, the flutter of wings and Castiel is there. â€œHello.”

What unfolds next is brilliant and pure Ben Edlund. I was rolling on the floor. This was written back in May or June, filmed in August and it said everything I thought this past week and more. Take that fandom, the writers do know us, each and every one of us zany, cranky, funky, fun-loving and fun-quashing one of us, and as much as they love to poke fun at us, they do love us.

The scene is fabulous:

Castiel: Hello.

Sam: Hello.

Castiel: Yes.

Sam: Hello? Hello.

Castiel: (confused) That is still the term.

Sam: I spent all that time trying to get through to you, Dean calls once and now it’s hello?!

Castiel: Yes.

Sam: So what, you like him better or something?

Castiel: Dean and I do share a more profound bond. (turning to look at Dean, whose reactions are priceless here) I wasn’t going to mention it.

Dean: Cas, I think what he’s trying to say is that he went to hell for us. I mean he really took one for the team. You remember that? And then he comes back without a clue and you can’t take five freaking minutes to give him some answers.

Castiel: If I had any answers, I might have responded but I don’t know. Sam, we have no idea who brought you back from the cage or why.

Sam: So it wasn’t God?

Castiel: No one has even seen God. The whole thing remains mysterious.

Sam. What the hell does that mean?

Castiel: What part of ‘I don’t know’ escapes your understanding?

Dean: Cas, look, if Sam calls, you answer. Okay. You wing your ass down here and you tell him I don’t know. Just because we have some sort of bond or whatever…

Castiel: You think I came because you called? I came because of these.

Dean: Nice to know what matters.

astiel: It does help one to focus.


It also marks a vast departure of the Castiel from Season 5 to now. Castiel, I surmise, will be appearing throughout the season but for reasons that are beneficial to him. He’s not on the run from heaven anymore; he’s not a celestial exile. He’s fighting a heavenly civil war that has little to no connection to Sam and Dean and thus that battle is unlikely to transfer over except for at moments such as this week. Once again there is a whole vast world of things going on and the Winchesters are now a much smaller piece of the whole, I like it.

This episode is a great follow up to last week’s. Last week the Impala was unveiled and a sparkle of the brotherly fun appeared. This week there is even more to enjoy:

We get Castiel, the Impala takes on the Charger, the boys having fun and at ease with each other…well, until the end and a short bit in the middle, a little skin for each of them (thank you Jared and Jensen for maintaining such fine physiques) a look inside Sam that we never even saw with Dean (don’t think Dean ever paid) some new locales to view, a high rise hotel room, slamming of car doors in sync (and different cars too), the destruction of Sam’s hunk of plastic (silver lining indeed!) some Dean as father figure and Sam as boss. And by the way, the setting is Easter, Pennsylvania perhaps Mega Gulp beverages are a Pennsylvania thing, the girl in Monster Movie had the same type of drink. BTW, the prostitute with Sam in the beginning looked awfully familiar. Anyone out there good at tracking down who ‘extras’ or one or two line actors are?

There were moments the episode dragged, the fight between Raphael and Castiel was staged (yeah, I know, duh, but it even felt staged); although, the part with Castiel being rusty with his people skills is hilarious and not overdone. 

This is a season very much in the unfolding stage. Episode one reunited Sam and Dean and introduced us to the Campbells. Episode two gave us Dean returning to ‘the life’ with Lisa being the most amazing woman ever and a deepening of the mystery of the Campbells. Episode three gave us insight into what the angels are up to and reminded us, non too subtly, that human souls are in play which leads us to Episode four where we’re going to go front and center with Bobby’s soul issues as well as bring a demon or two back into the mix.

From the previews at the end of the episode we know there are vampires warming the bench, domestic non-bliss as hunting and home life clash again, and the truth shall set you free – or not, as brotherly distrust takes its turn at bat. Also, based on the previews I lay odds that Castiel is not making an appearance again until after the next three episodes. I could be wrong but based on what we already know from interviews (Misha was not in Jensen’s directorial debut) and from what has been said in press releases regarding episodes five and six, Castiel does not appear to figure into those storylines. But the episode entitled All Dogs Go to Heaven makes me lay odds Cas may wing in again.

The season is off to a great start and rather than closing in on an end game, as Season 5 did with its natural dénouement, we are instead in the opening up of a new storyline and most all we get are questions and questions layered on top of riddles and mysteries and mazes. Where we’re going is anyone’s guess – well, unless you’re a fly on the wall in the writers’ room and then, if you have the ability to read and process (which I’m guessing not too many flies have otherwise they would have long since learned about fly paper and fly swatters and about not flying into the light) then you know where this is going.

Sera and company are slowly, week by week, episode by episode peeling back the layers and rather than exposing something they are simply adding them onto the pile of what we already know. Angels are stealing weapons and bartering in souls. Alpha shifters and vengeful djinn are prowling with familial matters from procreation to revenge on their minds. Dean has been to hell and remains tortured by it (insightful Sam and yes, I agree that it still tortures Dean) and Sam appears to be unaffected. Just what is his reveal about hell going to be? Did he have a hard time of it or was he instead celebrated as a hero for returning Lucifer to ‘his kingdom’ and better than an extra helping of fudge frosting, brought an archangel with him? I don’t know. I think we’re going to have to wait a bit more to find out. I’m game to wait this season is a lot of fun so far.

Destiny seems to be not much in play except in Castiel’s point of view and while some might be concerned that the whole Raphael is trying to reopen the apocalypse and thus we’ll go the way of the past, I’m not worried. Sera said that storyline is done, referring to it or having it operating on another plane that does not directly involve Sam and Dean except when Castiel needs their assistance does not return it to center stage. Sam and Dean are not part of Raphael’s plans, his plans are as Dean stated, civil war, and that has nothing to do anymore with either Winchester – unless there is a reason other than actors’ schedules that John and Mary cannot be found in heaven. I do hope that there is an answer to that (as well as a return of Ash, and Ellen and Jo – party at the Roadhouse!) for it is too juicy of a nugget to have been dropped in Dark Side of the Moon not to be on a sticky note on a board in the writers’ room but I don’t think that’s part of the plan so far.

Really enjoyed Sebastian Roche as Balthazar, (yeah, like Zachariah, there are several ways to spell that name.) Robert Singer turned out another fine product and added some wonderful shots of Dean’s reactions while Sam and Castiel were discussing how and why Castiel answers prayers. The stunt scene out the window was delicious in a myriad of angles, oh the time to set those cameras up just so. I enjoyed the Impala cutting off the Charger, the Charger’s demise, the look inside the cluttered trunk and the little memento of Ben’s wendigo Halloween mask. 

As usual there was the humor and a hint of darkness and plenty of disgusting moments at the beginning that had me hiding behind my fingers – mostly the locust in brain custard had me squirming. Misha and the camera crew have not lost their timing on how and when Castiel appears and disappears and the flow as he went to find some myrrh and then reappeared on the other side of the room and began drawing on the table was perfect.

I do hope that Rafael does find another vessel, he’s a formidable enemy and gives Castiel a good run for his money but also I never really liked the actor’s portrayal both in Free to be You and Me and here. Each time his eyes were fairly empty and while he has a beautiful voice, the actor didn’t bring the same intensity to it as did Robert Wisdom with his wonderfully enigmatic and portrayal of the diabolical Uriel.

Next week we get Weekend at Bobby’s. I am insanely looking forward to this episode. Not only is it Jensen’s debut as a director but it puts Bobby Singer, and the excellent Jim Beaver, front and center. Shows that have established themselves for several seasons get the fun of doing things a bit off kilter every now and again and showing a different side. Supernatural is going to have the opportunity to change our paradigms a bit next week. Instead of following Sam and Dean and enjoying the arrival of Bobby, we’re going to follow Bobby and see the arrival of Sam and Dean throughout the episode.

House, a show I only recently started watching and only when it runs marathons on Bravo or USA so I’m seeing ‘House the early years’ – don’t care one whit for soap operaish antics such as House and Cuddy and who is 13 with or who is Chase and/or Cameron or anyone else with so I don’t watch it first run – did such an episode in one of its seasons where Cuddy was the lead all episode and the other characters weaved in and out of her day. It was interesting watching the flow and seeing things from the other side. Weekend at Bobby’s promises to be such fare.

Admittedly, I’m nervous about next week’s episode as well. My nervousness has nothing to do with Jensen’s directing – the man knows the show inside and out and has plenty of people there to keep him on track from lighting to set designs, to camera operators, to grips to all the people I have no idea about and then there’s the editing et cetera. I also have no concerns about being interested in watching Jim Beaver/Bobby Singer for the majority of the episode. His scenes are never long enough nor frequent enough for me, bring on Jim Beaver/Bobby Singer. 

No, my nervousness about this episode has to do with the writers, Dabb and Loflin. They are my least favorite writers of the show. They penned the glorious Dark Side of the Moon and did a very able job with Jump the Shark; however, Yellow Fever, I Believe the Children are our Future, After School Special, Sam, Interrupted and Hammer of the Gods outweigh the good to great.  Still, it has Bobby and Crowley, Rufus makes an appearance, Crowley’s hell hound, Sam and Dean and much more.

Like Jas said in her recent Open Couch, I’m not sure how many more of these episode ‘reviews/thoughts/stream of conscious’ I’ll be completing this season. Right now it works best for me to get them down and out sometime over the weekend. If I wait too long, life gets in the way and the creative juices dry up. I also enjoy finding a specific aspect of the episode to latch onto (such as this week’s scene with Cas, Sam and Dean) and making that my inspiration. Then I can delve into everyone else’s comments and articles since I never read anything until I’ve written my own; selfish sure but now that I’m done, I can go and read. 

So, with that said, that’s where we’re at this week at Elle2’s Mystery Spot. I enjoyed The Third Man very much. We’re three for three solid episodes in Season 6 and we still have no idea where we’re going but so far it’s been a lot of fun. I love the format of mostly closed episodes with a thin threads, Sam’s escape from hell, the Campbell family mystery and now heaven’s civil war, weaving their way in and out amongst the monsters of the week.

Bring on Weekend at Bobby’s.

Thanks for reading, Elle2



# Jasminka 2010-10-10 11:22
Elle2, I loved your ever fast review. Since there won’t be an Open Couch from me this week, I am free to read and comment, ha.

Truly liked this episode. The Edlund delivers so many fine nuances that I feel my respect for his skill rising ever again. Looks like we’re going to get more divine goodies this year, like Moses’ staff. Uh-Oh, don’t mess with Old Testament-stuff . That will hardly ever bring you anything good… I agree with your assessment that we’re still in the opening sequences here. The sixth season is not en route, yet. We know now that Heaven is facing a civil war, that there are some renegade angels about, that the human soul is a product to sell and buy. And that angels are not designed to show pity. Torturing a child is accepted as collateral damage.

In that scene the fascination Sam showed bugged me at first, but then I thought it might have triggered something within him in regard to his time in the cage. Dean, is, indeed, still affected by his trauma of being tortured in hell, while Sam tries to keep the appearance up that he isn’t. I’m sorry, laddie, I’m not buying it. Either, his psyche did a really fine job by suppressing the whole experience and he truly doesn’t remember it (which will eventually break to the surface some day, because such things barely stay away in any soul, in particular one that is as sensitive as Sam’s) or he’d trying to make even himself believe that he remains unaffected. To my mind, he is still freaked out by whatever he saw down there.

I loved the sweet lovely scene in Lisa and Dean’s bedroom, two people feeling so utterly comfortable together they don’t complain over morning breath (:o ;-)), and I was in Samgirl heaven watching Sam doing his fitness programme.

But – since when does Sam pay for love? And, well, true, Elle2, the girl looked a lot like dear deceased Ruby, didn’t she? It may be just me, but that scene showing off Jared’s magnificent body looked unreal. It didn’t really make much sense in the story (or, at least, so far I haven’t figured it out yet) except introducing the actor’s physique to the audience and to producers looking for the next action hero. I know, it’s blasphemy to say that (especially coming from a declared Samgirl and Jared Padalecki fan), don’t kill me, but that scene would have made more sense in another context. Okay, we get acquainted with Sam’s life, that he does have a love life, chooses sort-of respectable hotel rooms and groomed and well-smelling hookers, that he takes care of himself. But those were aspects I already knew. You don’t look like that eating potato chips sitting around, and Sam, with his refined tastes, would never settle for streetgirls he could easily end up with some kind of disease.

Why does he go out with professional girls then? One reason springs to mind: to avoid emotional attachment. He won’t call this girl again. He uses hookers to have sex once in a while (or every other night, we don't know), but that's about all.
He needs to focus on different things and getting involved with someone is not on his agenda right now. When he stays clear from emotional complications and attachment, he also reduces the risk of opening up his own stored away emotions. And that, again, is highly understandable.

ah, this season has not even started yet. Already there are more questions than answers. Heavens, I love this show.

Love, and thanks so much for sharing your thoughts! Jas
# Karen 2010-10-10 17:47
Hi Elle2
Great review as always.
I also enjoyed this episode, so much more to add to the new story line. I like that they are still referencing the apocalypse and that they didn’t just drop it, like it never happened. It makes it a little more realistic to show the after effects.

I liked Balthazar, he reminds me of Gabriel/Trickst er, kind of a comedic character. Mind you I would take back Gabriel any day.

Not sure how I feel about Raphael, they really didn’t give him much airtime. He kind of came in, started beating on Cass and then got ‘salted’.

The return of Castiel! Yeah! I Loved his entrance and that entire scene. Poor Sam feeling left out. But the connection between Castiel and Dean was always been a strong one. After all it was Cas that freed Dean from hell and it was for Dean that he rebelled. However I loved that he only came because he needed them. I am a bit surprise that Cas didn’t go to Sam after being resurrected. I would think that the curiosity alone would of brought him there. But I guess with Heaven in disarray he’s had his hands full. Plus with him spending the last year back with angels and with no exposure to the human element he’s resorted back to the old soldier ways.

Awww the poor Charger. I could of gone a couple more episodes with the battle of the vehicles. I new it wasn’t going to last but I Loved the competition between Sam and Dean.

Sam paying for sex? He is a single adult male and would need a little human contact, especially after his ordeal in the pit. Plus when he stated to Dean that he didn’t pay, he was secretly involved with Ruby at the time. And lets face it every person that Sam has ever been involved with has never ended well. Losing Jessica and having to kill Madison and of course Ruby’s betrayal. It’s no wonder he’s doesn’t want a permanent relationship. As for his encounter with Dr Cara, I think that he only slept with her because he was ashamed of his relationship with Ruby. I believe being with Dr. Cara made him feel human and that he was still part of the human race.

Not sure how I feel about this lead up of Dean being suspicious of Sam. I’m kind of done with them being against each other, I want their relationship back. But I guess I will just have to be patient and wait it out.
I believe that Sam is just suppressing his emotions because he can’t deal with what happened to him. I think he’s afraid if he lets his guard down for even a minute he will fall apart. That’s probably why he stuck it out with the Campbell’s, no chance of getting emotional with them.

And on a final note, I am ashame to admit that the shirtless scenes :oops: OMG I'm still picking up my chin from the floor. :shock:
# Ashke 2010-10-10 20:58
Great review as always. I must admit that this is my favorite episode of the season so far. Ben Edlund scripts are pure gold in my book. Between having Cas back and the brothers snarking at each other again and Dean's comments like "skid mark and bubble wrap" I was in heaven. Not to mention the eye candy.

Jas - speaking of which, I actually took the work out scene with Sam as 1. more proof of how Sam has changed from the man who doesn't pay for sex and cared more about others feelings and 2. how he's deliberately chosen to make his life different from Dean's. Just my opinion.

I did have one question. It seemed rather pointed that when pressed why Cas didn't come to Sam or Dean before he said he was ashamed of his brothers. Is it just me or does that sound like they're laying the groundwork for future episodes.

I also have to admit as happy as I am that the Winchesters will be traveling in the Impala together once more it's a shame that the Charger got destroyed. They could have just given it to me.

Thanks again
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-10 22:17
Thank you for this review - I enjoyed reading it.

I agree that Raphael was a bit of a let down - both his character development so far, as well as his fight sequence with Castiel.

And yes, the Castiel, Sam and Dean "pray" sequence was highly enjoyable. :-)
# elle2 2010-10-11 09:39
Hi, Jas, Karen, Ashke and Citizen Kane,

Jas, since we're deprived of an Open Couch this week I thank you for the insights you put here. Yes, Sam is deflecting by avoiding attachments, avoiding giving answers and by avoiding personalization s of victims or the cases. It's work, work, work. Very Dean like of the past, as well as John Winchester and very Sammy of Mystery Spot and IKWYDLS flashbacks.

This is going to be interesting and fun.


I'm right there with you regarding Balthazar and Trickster/Gabri el. There is a nuance there of The Trickster (as well as a bit Crowley in that he likes big and expensive things and is a bit unexpected in who and how and when he'll side with Castiel). Like you, I really, really, really hope The Trickster/Gabri el makes a return -- although I do like the Pepsi/Coke commercials that Richard Spreight has got going on right now...too funny.

As for the Sam/Dean's necessary to get it out but I do hope they lance that wound regarding the suspicions once and for all and we get the discharge and then the healing. I'm happy for the healing to take time and I don't expect a return to the Sam and Dean of Season 1 and 2 in that regard for too much has gone down but get the suspicions out and let them repair, as we saw in both Two and a Half Men and again in The Third Man, they want to heal.


Mr. Edlund delivers lots of fun and like you, bubblewrap and skid mark as well as locusts in the custard were pretty good. As for the Charger...too funny, they could have just given it to you, what a waste (not that I'll miss it, I like the brothers have to 'crowd' together again.

I think you're correct that with Cas' shame at his brothers there are many things going on there. He is allowed some additional characterizatio n, he's a bit wiser to what is what on the angelic plane than Season 4 but with that wisdom comes sorrow as he sees the seedy side of things. It is laying (IMO) groundwork for the future and for his arc, as well as it's another mirror for Sam and Dean's relationship. Both have had moments of shame in the other, Dean's becoming a torturer, Sam drinking demon's a moment between the two of them as well.

I love the layers.

Citizen Kane,

Glad you liked the review, I enjoyed writing it. :-)

A few letdowns as I see them in an episode doesn't ruin it for me, in fact, it simply shines the light that much brighter on the really awesome moments...the "pray" sequence for one as well as the banter between the brothers.

Jared and Jensen do have a great rythym for the expositional moments of the show that makes them hum without being the dry 'talkie/talk' that they could be.

We're only four days out to Weekend at Bobby's!!! Bring on Crowley, Rufus, Bobby, Sheriff Mills, Sam and Dean and more...
# Jeannine 2010-10-11 21:26
NOOOOOOO! Not the Charger! Cas you crushed the pretty car! ::sob:: Ah Charger, you were with us for a short time but you will be missed.

Another amazing episode with so many little details to analyze.

I've gotta say I am terribly confused about Sam. The call girl didn't bother me, that made sense in a way. No, it's his reactions to things and Dean. And of course, the preview for next week sent chills to my heart. I am so afraid for our Sammy, I fear he is really screwed up.

I love Dean as dad, talking to Ben on the phone and keeping his Halloween mask. I gotta agree with Sam, it was pretty accurate. "Because I lie professionally, " love that line.

There was a look on Sam's face when Cas said Raphael was trying to restart the apocalypse, I'm not sure what to make of it. Was that fear or despair?

I really liked Cas in this one and I'm not a Cas fan. When it was hinted that they were going back to pre-fallen Cas, I was not impressed. But this Cas isn't really like that. He's a little bit of both. Sure he's not very social (was he ever?) but he doesn't seem to have a stick up his you know what either.

There was so much more, many of which you already eloquently pointed out Elle2. I am truly loving how this season is unfolding. I can't wait for Friday.
# Suze 2010-10-12 07:25
The poor old Charger was always going to be toast, you can only get so much snark out of the boyz zipping around in seperate cars ... What upset me was the introduction of Pus-Filled Buboe-Bloke right after all the Gratuitously Gorgeous Shirtless Sam bit ... Talk about bucket of cold water moment, that was downright cruel. Bloody Edlund and his quirky sense of humour. Mind you, at least nothing burst. Yuk.

Loving the three-way awkward fest of fan baiting that was The Return Of Cas ... Still a Dick, bless 'im ...
# faye 2010-10-12 10:26
We've all been talking about Sam's coldness, and how they will overcome that, but after watching this ep, I was wondering... Balthazar seemed to be making a very pointed remark about the value of souls: has Sam lost his soul? Was that the price he paid to get out of hell? It would explain how oddly he's been acting, and why he thinks he is OK, when he very obviously is not.

Now that we know angels (besides Lucifer) can take souls, this struck me as pretty significant. But I've only seen it once. What does everybody else think?
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2010-10-12 18:23
Could it (the soulless thing) happen? Yeah, it probably could but I think they would be making a simple matter overly complex. They might also be shooting themselves in the foot because it would mean continuously changing lore about souls. First it was demons, now its angels, then we saw that when the soul is gone, the body is an empty shell (Striga and Dean) to (possibly) seeing a walking, talking, soulless Sam..... They would be tying themselves in knots. Plus, I didn’t sign up for Harry freaking Potter (though I am very excited about that one...)

Also, Sam's (imperceptible) reactions to situations so far show he's not soulless. He smiles at Dean, he's angry at Castiel, he was worried about Ben and Lisa, he’s ticked at Dean’s racing etc; all human emotions that a soulless person should not be able to emote.

Personally, I don't want to see this (no soul Sam), mainly because I think it will do a disservice to the character and the show.

For as long as we've known him, Sam has been different- demon blood, demon army, baby blood, visions, powers, Lucifer etc. I don't think, as yet, we've seen Sam au-natural (in terms of nothing freaky about him) I was hoping this season would be the one where he's just Sam. No blood, no powers, nothing about him that has to be 'fixed'. Not 'Sammy No Soul' just 'Sam, a normal dude.'

I think that passing off Sams (fairly obvious) PTSD as him having lost his soul is a bit of a copout. It lessens his sacrifice, his time in the Pit and the consequences of having Lucifer in him. 'Sam isn't different because of what he went through, he's different because he has no soul'. Based on that, should we assume the Pit was a cakewalk for Sam? Also, when (if?) Sam gets his soul back will he be perfectly back to normal? (what's normal for Sam anyway?)

There are so many better, more human, explanations for what happened to Sam. I'd like to see those being examined (looking at the relationship side of things, not the SPN side of things)

Finally, I don't want the expectation that things will be all hunky dorey if Sam just gets his soul back. The brothers relationship has been severely damaged by both sides. It should take more than a quick soul to make it right.
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-12 19:50
On the speculation of Sam's soul - while I think Tim raised a number of good points, I tend to think (for better or for worse) Sam's condition has something to do with his soul (or lack thereof).

Perhaps a "soul" can be split into parts, and Sam is just missing some parts. :P
# faye 2010-10-12 21:11
Yeah, Tim, I think you may be right. The "soul" explanation is perhaps a red herring for us to chew on. But I think at the same time PSTD is a little too "real world", and realistically how does he ever get over that?

I don't think the storyline would every resolve itself to mean that Sam's time in the Pit was a cakewalk. Even before he went to hell, when Lucifer was inside him, it was obvious that Sam was suffering horribly. All that either PSTD or losing his soul would mean was that he hasn't been able to deal with what happened to him.

We're probably all wrong, and they're laughing at us...
# Jasminka 2010-10-13 13:59
Enchanting Tim, I do agree with you - there have been quite some signs that Sam has not come back without a soul. But - what we see is a wonderful example of how severe PTSD can look like, and Jared plays it marvellously. I'm in awe. He's doing it differently from Jensen, but still this is a tormented man.

If his condition has something to do with his soul, then probably with the shards of it, since I would imagine some parts of it being broken and twisted, cutting away at his fiercly protected front from the inside. Sooner or later they will come through his skin and that mask will crumble. I'm having kleenex at the ready.

Faye, I find your idea with Sam having to give his soul to get out from hell, intruiging, but, according to what Sam has shown us so far, this probably is not the case. And - I don't buy his 'I'm okay' for a minute. He is lying to himself, trying to convince himself - and others, of course, that he is fine. To my mind.

What an interesting discussion, folks! cheers, Jas