For the record, I really liked “Captives”. It was engaging. It had a lot of Sam, Dean and Castiel. It brought Kevin back to us. Mostly, though, it felt hopeful again. In my review of the season so far (Is Season 9 Divine?), I observed that many episodes in the first half of the season felt hopeful. “Captives” gave me that same feeling. Mrs. Tran was rescued alive, Kevin is back with his mom, Castiel is making good choices, wayward angels chose to follow Cas and a path of peace, Bartholomew was killed (I found him very tiresome!) and we got a promise that the brother’s relationship will be mended. I sensed the turning point in many threads, many arcs, for the season. Maybe we are getting closer to redemption.

New Threads

9.14 Kevin ghost 0371

The Gates of Heaven are Closed – We are tracking several threads related to the angel war and Heaven’s restoration, namely whether the banishing spell is reversible, why Metatron has a hit-list of people who have to be eliminated, whether Gadreel will ultimately redeem himself, and whether Sam’s “inside knowledge” of Gadreel’s interactions with Metatron will ultimately be useful. While I didn’t see new evidence relating to any of these threads (did you?), we did learn from Kevin that “Heaven in closed for business. Everyone who’s died since the angels fell are just stuck inside the veil, waiting.” That answered a lot of questions about the extent of heaven’s shut down. While interesting, it doesn’t help Kevin (his body is ashes), Crowley/Abaddon/Hell Wars or Gadreel/Metatron.  It puts a great deal more pressure on Sam, Dean and other hunters because there are more ghosts circling the veil, but given all that is going on, that doesn’t seem that relevant right now. It does confirm, though, that Metatron closed the gates of Heaven at the same time he evicted all the angels. If closing the gates of Heaven backed up the good souls, it logically follows that closing the gates of Hell would have delayed the departure of all the evil souls, too (congratulations to the people who speculated about this possibility several months ago!). If this is confirmed, it may be the exact vindication Sam needs to forgive himself (and Dean) for selfishly choosing each other instead of doing something they thought would rid the world of Hell’s interference forever. Maybe the brother’s love prevented a catastrophic mistake! Remember the morale of the first five years of Supernatural? In “Swan Song”, Chuck summed it all up by saying:

“So, what’s it all add up to? It’s hard to say. But me, I’d say this was a test…for Sam and Dean. And I think they did all right. Up against good, evil, angels, devils, destiny and God himself, they made their own choice. They chose family. And, well…isn’t that kinda the whole point?”
Maybe Chuck's voice is still narrating this saga. Maybe, just maybe, this is where we are headed…..again. Sam would understand how very wrong he was in believing that “everything that has ever gone wrong between us has been because we’re family.” Choosing life in the church, instead of dying for the cause, would echo Castiel’s lesson when he stopped extracting grace from Sam (“First Born”):

“[the] old me would’ve just kept going. I would’ve jammed that needle in deeper until you died because the ends always justified the means. But what I went through [as a human]..taught me that angels can change, so who knows? Maybe Winchesters can too.”  
Earlier in that process he told Sam “life is precious and it must be protected at all costs”. Maybe this whole season is reteaching the lesson that life and family are the whole point.

New Evidence for Existing Threads

“Captives” gave us a great deal of information about Bartholomew’s (and maybe Malachi’s) plans and motivations:

Bartholomew:  “We have different methods, Cas, but we want the same thing – to find Metatron and restore our kind to heaven.  I will outrace Malachi in the hunt for Metatron and I will certainly outrace you on your own…there’s no reason the two of us can’t take him down together.”

Bartholomew:  [I’ve been] distracted from the real goal. But with you by my side - the new boss and the ultimate rebel working together – think of the message that would send to would-be dissidents. They’d finally understand that resistance is futile. Think of the bloodshed we could avert…What a united angel kind could accomplish in heaven…Elsewhere [with a sudden smirk].”
It seems Bartholomew, and by reference, Malachi, both want to be seen as the heroes who restore Heaven (add Gadreel to that list, too). Maybe they think that triumph will elevate them to the ultimate position of power. The Star Trek Borg reference (“resistance is futile”) subliminally gives us the image of masses of mindless drones (i.e. angels) following the will of one leader. They both arrogantly believe they should be that leader. Maybe Bartholomew and Malachi just need their kingdom back so they have someplace to rule (they are currently kings without a kingdom). Maybe they see themselves as the “new God”. Bartholomew’s “elsewhere” hinted that his plans were grander than just ruling angelkind in Heaven. Cas once thought of himself as the new God, too. I believe he was being influenced if not controlled by the Leviathans inside him at the time, but there was still the familiarity of the road already travelled for him. Bartholomew’s and Malachi’s race for power is the juxtaposition to Castiel’s growth in wisdom, humility and leadership. Castiel learned from his mistakes, which leads us to redemption…

Redemption

9.14 Cas 0948

Castiel was the voice of redemption in “Captives”.  His refusal to engage in violence showed several angels a new, peaceful path to unity, finding Metatron and reopening the gates of Heaven. Castiel consciously chose his path to redemption when he said, “Angels fighting angels has to stop somewhere. Might as well stop with me.” Then when Bartholomew asked him if he was now a penitent, Cas answered “I’m nothing”. What an incredible statement of humility, in stark contrast to “I am the new God” that Cas proclaimed just a few years earlier. His time as a human taught him humility, patience and maybe a strength that comes from understanding yourself. Cas proclaimed, “Who I was, what I did, that’s not who I am” clearly telling us that he has changed.  

The redemption arc vibrantly lit up this episode, making a welcome, heartwarming respite from the heartbreak of the Winchester brothers…

The Brother’s Relationship

9.14 Bros 1527
                                                                                                                                               
Mrs. Tran gave Dean’s heart a voice when she reiterated the deepest, most primal instincts of any parent: “He is my son. It’s my job to keep him safe for as long as I can.” This was an obvious reminder and validation of at least one of Dean’s motivations in saving Sam. Kevin then absolved Sam of all guilt for Kevin’s death. Sam needed to hear that forgiveness. Crowley had already told Sam that the murder wasn’t his fault, but it needed to be repeated. Maybe Sam will eventually believe it. In any case, both Linda and Kevin Tran were used to help the brothers process their guilt.

9.14 Trans 1522

Kevin then gave all of fandom a voice when he told the boys they need to talk about their differences and be brothers again.  As a ghost, Kevin was like the fans who have been forced to watch the brothers fight but have no voice to help them understand, forgive, reconcile and grow. Kevin spoke for us in pointing out that life is too short to stubbornly hold onto pain and anger (“My mom is taking home a ghost”).

Sam and Dean then promised that they would work out their differences. This was hopefully a coded promise from the writers to fandom that they know they have to fix things between the boys. So far we only got a hesitation from Sam when he closed himself up in his room, and a resigned Dean, when he shut out the world by putting on headphones and losing himself in his music. Still, I’ll take the acknowledgement and the promise. That’s what I said I wanted from Jeremy Carver in the letter to him a few weeks ago. I choose to believe this was his promise to us.

“I did what I had to do”

9.14 Angels 1193

This thread was at the center of the critical turning point in Cas and Bartholomew’s dialogue and relationship! Bartholomew was baiting Castiel to kill the pacifist. Once again an innocent life was threatened by someone’s quest for an ultimate goal. Bartholomew said, “I want to work with you, Castiel, but I need proof.  They need proof that they were wrong, that you can do what has to be done. This has to be done.” Bart even repeated the phrase for emphasis! The rationalization of I did what I had to do was used repeatedly in the first half of the season to justify killing Kevin, Theo, the park ranger angel, letting Sam be possessed and so many more tragedies. Castiel announced the end of this justification, though, when he said “my only choice was to obey or be killed. Well, I choose.” He chose to not kill an innocent or Bartholomew. Castiel’s decision was the turning point in this arc, I believe. We may now see more people (including Gadreel?) recognize that you always have a choice. Team Free Will. The idea of choices may resonate with Sam and Dean, too, and again help them make sense out of their confusion and anger.

Castiel also clarified that choosing to defend life is not the same as being a pacifist or a push-over. Castiel protected himself when attacked by Bartholomew.  He warned the angel in the cemetery “I don’t want to fight, but if I have to, I will.” He has reconciled his warrior training and instincts with his new reverence for life. He may be foreshadowing the lesson the Winchesters have to apply to themselves. Again, a turning point.

Will someone else turn out to be who they aren't supposed to be?

9.14 Captured 1111 small

Dean underestimated the storage facility clerk, because Dean pre-judged him based on either expectations of who would fill that particular job or his experience at the other storage sites. Either way, once Dean’s prediction about the “nerd’s” physical and social qualities were confirmed, Dean let down his guard believing the “funky homo sapien” was not a threat. That really seemed to me to be a slap in the face to everyone who prejudges people based on outward appearances…and a reiteration of the thread that not everyone is who they appear to be.

The Mark of Cain

9.14 Dean 1600

Is the “cost” being immortal, becoming evil or a stone cold killer…

9.14 Sam 1573

or being exiled from home and all you love? How is Dean going to get rid of the MoC? - My only observation on this thread is related to its lack of movement. The more episodes that don’t address this plot, the more I believe its story will be the basis of this season’s cliff hanger. I am more and more convinced that this may set up some gut-wrenching decision, action, consequence, or “cost” that drops us into the hiatus before season 10.

Threads on Hold (no new clues this time)

Let me know if I missed anything related to:

- Reversals
- “You’ve seen everything that he’s seen!” 
- Why did Crowley want Kevin’s blood instead of Sam’s? 
- Is the Angel Banishing Spell Reversible?
- Letting Go
- “Here is the FIRST name on your to-do list.”

Curiosities

- Bartholomew to Castiel: “No one is as motivated as you to take him down.” I found that very interesting. Bartholomew believed that Cas was tricked by Metatron rather than the original, popular assumption that Castiel was complicit with Metatron? Hurray. The truth is known and accepted.

9.14 Map 0950

- Bartholomew said that Metatron had been seen on earth 3 times: southern Washington state,
northern Michigan, and central Georgia. I haven’t looked on a map yet to try to identify probably cities for
those red dots. Anyone from those states recognize the general locale? I am just curious if those locations are revisited as the homes of future hit-list names, or something relevant to Metatron’s cause. It would take a lot for Metatron to become visible and I found it interesting that the map was shown twice during that scene.

- I promised I would hold onto the observation that Abaddon was at Castle Storage when she took Crowley’s phone call.  Castle Storage was again the backdrop for this episode’s action. At first I thought that Abaddon was involved somehow with the hostages, but soon it became clear that it was Crowley’s doing and not some bizarre plot twist.  Instead, I believe we are being told that Castle Storage is the most common chain of storage facilities in the Supernatural universe and we should expect to see it in every town, somewhere down the street from Biggersons! I also think we can take away the lesson that you do not want a job there since Abaddon, Crowley’s demon and Mrs. Tran all killed the hapless Castle Storage attendants (or people passing by?)! Is it a coincidence that their uniforms are red shirts (another Star Trek reference)?

- The storage locker that Dean was taken to as a diversion was rented by Bob Gunderson. The name sounded familiar so I looked it up. Bob Gunderson is “one of the top scarers at Monster, Inc.” in the movie “Monsters University” (pixar.wikia.com). Cute nod to scary monsters. The address for Mr. Gunderson was P.O. Box 2340 Kansas City, Kansas. Searches reveal a remote tie to a real Pest Control service. The PO box was the address of their site in Salt Lake City, Utah, but their other locations included Kansas City, Kansas and Austin, Texas (Jared connection?).         

What do you think of my interpretations of “Captives”?  Am I seeing things that aren’t there, or did I miss threads that were obvious? Your turn to be the detectives!


Screencaps from www.homeofthenutty.com
Quotes confirmed in www.supernaturalwiki.com

 

Comments  

Trucklady
# Trucklady 2014-03-01 15:05
Great review nightsky and lots of questions still. I do love how TPTB entwine little tidbits to slowly start sealing the seams in the holes we have been left with since the beginning.

I love where the story has taken Cas and that he finally seems to be "getting it". With his human experiences I think he is the ultimate choice to be the new "god" so to speak. Misha's talents are being showcased more and more each week. Kudos to him. Have to add that glad Bart is gone, didn't care for him much.

Great comparison of Ms. Tan and her parental role with Kevin and Dean's daddy-inflicted role of a parental role with Sam. Sam and Dean don't take pep talks real well though so don't know that either Ms. Tran or Kevin really got through to them.

The MoC has me real concerned and I think your thoughts on it being the clif hanger at the end of Season 9 and a great arc for Season 10 just might be spot on. Dean does seem to be getting darker and darker and less tolerant of Sam's pushing him away so I'm just waiting for the "big" thing to happen that Jared has hinted at. I have to wonder about Crowley and why he isn't looking for the blade also. Promo's show him whining in bed so that is going to be interesting.

The map and Metatron sightings don't track with the episodes so far. We've only seen him in two episodes: Holy Terror located in Caribou, Wyoming and then again in Road Trip located in Somerset, PA which neither location was identified on the map so what are the three locations and what do they mean? Hopefully there will be some clarification on this later on because I have no clue what they all mean.

The Castle Storage info has me getting ready to re-watch this weeks episode because some how I missed that little tidbit this time. Maybe we do have a tendency to read more into things than are really intended and could be that Castle Storage is as you suggested and just a Supernatural chain like Biggersons. I'm good with that for now.

As always, dynamite acting from all around, great story line from writers, and kudos to all of the crew and show runners for another awesome episode.
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2014-03-01 15:05
Great review nightsky and lots of questions still. I do love how TPTB entwine little tidbits to slowly start sealing the seams in the holes we have been left with since the beginning.

I love where the story has taken Cas and that he finally seems to be "getting it". With his human experiences I think he is the ultimate choice to be the new "god" so to speak. Misha's talents are being showcased more and more each week. Kudos to him. Have to add that glad Bart is gone, didn't care for him much.

Great comparison of Ms. Tan and her parental role with Kevin and Dean's daddy-inflicted role of a parental role with Sam. Sam and Dean don't take pep talks real well though so don't know that either Ms. Tran or Kevin really got through to them.

The MoC has me real concerned and I think your thoughts on it being the clif hanger at the end of Season 9 and a great arc for Season 10 just might be spot on. Dean does seem to be getting darker and darker and less tolerant of Sam's pushing him away so I'm just waiting for the "big" thing to happen that Jared has hinted at. I have to wonder about Crowley and why he isn't looking for the blade also. Promo's show him whining in bed so that is going to be interesting.

The map and Metatron sightings don't track with the episodes so far. We've only seen him in two episodes: Holy Terror located in Caribou, Wyoming and then again in Road Trip located in Somerset, PA which neither location was identified on the map so what are the three locations and what do they mean? Hopefully there will be some clarification on this later on because I have no clue what they all mean.

The Castle Storage info has me getting ready to re-watch this weeks episode because some how I missed that little tidbit this time. Maybe we do have a tendency to read more into things than are really intended and could be that Castle Storage is as you suggested and just a Supernatural chain like Biggersons. I'm good with that for now.

As always, dynamite acting from all around, great story line from writers, and kudos to all of the crew and show runners for another awesome episode.
love2boys
# love2boys 2014-03-01 15:58
This was a really interesting review. Thank you!

Maybe Castle Storage is turning into something awesome NOW because the props department had a great sign that they wanted to re-use. That would be a funny "real-life" reason for writing Castle Storage into the show. :D But I like it!

I have watched this episode 6 times so far and you are SO much better at picking out the threads. You did a great job. (I just love this show.)
love2boys
# love2boys 2014-03-01 15:58
This was a really interesting review. Thank you!

Maybe Castle Storage is turning into something awesome NOW because the props department had a great sign that they wanted to re-use. That would be a funny "real-life" reason for writing Castle Storage into the show. :D But I like it!

I have watched this episode 6 times so far and you are SO much better at picking out the threads. You did a great job. (I just love this show.)
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-03-01 17:48
Nightsky - always enjoy reading all the little things you pick up on... a couple of thoughts and questions.

"I did what I had to do" - Nice pick up on that, hopefully it is a turning point, people taking responsibility and owning the decisions they make rather than "I did what I had to do" which is a cop out on par with "I was only following orders". I'm holding out a sliver of hope that there's a redemption arc for Gadreel, too.

The Gates of Heaven are Closed - with people stuck in the veil now, this really raises the stakes. Otherwise, for me anyway, I don't think the angel storyline would be very compelling. I also wonder whether this was an intended or unintended consequence of Metatron's actions? And, since each soul in the veil is a small nuclear reactor, will that be of help in getting the gates open again? I'm thinking Kevin will play some sort of role in this arc, along with the new and improved Castiel of course.

Do you think the Mark of Cain is in any way influencing/exa cerbating Sam and Dean's "issues" and Dean's apparent isolation? They do seem to be at loggerheads, with Dean doubling down, saying he'd do it all over again. In any event, Sam needs to step up and decide what he wants because this arrangement isn't working for either of them.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-03-01 17:48
Nightsky - always enjoy reading all the little things you pick up on... a couple of thoughts and questions.

"I did what I had to do" - Nice pick up on that, hopefully it is a turning point, people taking responsibility and owning the decisions they make rather than "I did what I had to do" which is a cop out on par with "I was only following orders". I'm holding out a sliver of hope that there's a redemption arc for Gadreel, too.

The Gates of Heaven are Closed - with people stuck in the veil now, this really raises the stakes. Otherwise, for me anyway, I don't think the angel storyline would be very compelling. I also wonder whether this was an intended or unintended consequence of Metatron's actions? And, since each soul in the veil is a small nuclear reactor, will that be of help in getting the gates open again? I'm thinking Kevin will play some sort of role in this arc, along with the new and improved Castiel of course.

Do you think the Mark of Cain is in any way influencing/exa cerbating Sam and Dean's "issues" and Dean's apparent isolation? They do seem to be at loggerheads, with Dean doubling down, saying he'd do it all over again. In any event, Sam needs to step up and decide what he wants because this arrangement isn't working for either of them.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-01 17:52
Do you think the reason Abbadon was outside a Castle Storage facility is because she in looking for John's locker? Maybe she was also looking for the info on The First Blade. Or it could be a Biggersons nod.
The map is puzzling except that it means that Metatron has been on earth several times. Looking for what or who? Cas maybe? Were some of those Cas' locations? I wonder if he knows that Castiel has gotten grace back.
Someone mentioned the number on Sam's door was 23. Maybe a foreshadowing that this issue between the brothers is going still to be in play for the cliffhanger this season. Great another 6 months of agony.
I am sure the tablets still have a part to play and Kevin is the only one who can translate them other than Metatron. Hmm...maybe a return of Kevin at some point? I would assume they would have to be translated to open heaven.
Thanks nightsky I love thinky thoughts.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-01 17:52
Do you think the reason Abbadon was outside a Castle Storage facility is because she in looking for John's locker? Maybe she was also looking for the info on The First Blade. Or it could be a Biggersons nod.
The map is puzzling except that it means that Metatron has been on earth several times. Looking for what or who? Cas maybe? Were some of those Cas' locations? I wonder if he knows that Castiel has gotten grace back.
Someone mentioned the number on Sam's door was 23. Maybe a foreshadowing that this issue between the brothers is going still to be in play for the cliffhanger this season. Great another 6 months of agony.
I am sure the tablets still have a part to play and Kevin is the only one who can translate them other than Metatron. Hmm...maybe a return of Kevin at some point? I would assume they would have to be translated to open heaven.
Thanks nightsky I love thinky thoughts.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-03-01 18:12
Quoting cheryl42:
Do you think the reason Abbadon was outside a Castle Storage facility is because she in looking for John's locker? Maybe she was also looking for the info on The First Blade. Or it could be a Biggersons nod.
The map is puzzling except that it means that Metatron has been on earth several times. Looking for what or who? Cas maybe? Were some of those Cas' locations? I wonder if he knows that Castiel has gotten grace back.
Someone mentioned the number on Sam's door was 23. Maybe a foreshadowing that this issue between the brothers is going still to be in play for the cliffhanger this season. Great another 6 months of agony.
I am sure the tablets still have a part to play and Kevin is the only one who can translate them other than Metatron. Hmm...maybe a return of Kevin at some point? I would assume they would have to be translated to open heaven.
Thanks nightsky I love thinky thoughts.


got me thinking so I went back and checked - it looks like either a "21" or "2J" on the door - this is the URL to a screencap from Home of the Nutty -

http://www.homeofthenutty.com/supernatural/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=195&pid=239416#top_display_media
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-03-01 18:12
Quote:
Do you think the reason Abbadon was outside a Castle Storage facility is because she in looking for John's locker? Maybe she was also looking for the info on The First Blade. Or it could be a Biggersons nod.
The map is puzzling except that it means that Metatron has been on earth several times. Looking for what or who? Cas maybe? Were some of those Cas' locations? I wonder if he knows that Castiel has gotten grace back.
Someone mentioned the number on Sam's door was 23. Maybe a foreshadowing that this issue between the brothers is going still to be in play for the cliffhanger this season. Great another 6 months of agony.
I am sure the tablets still have a part to play and Kevin is the only one who can translate them other than Metatron. Hmm...maybe a return of Kevin at some point? I would assume they would have to be translated to open heaven.
Thanks nightsky I love thinky thoughts.
got me thinking so I went back and checked - it looks like either a "21" or "2J" on the door - this is the URL to a screencap from Home of the Nutty -

http://www.homeofthenutty.com/supernatural/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=195&pid=239416#top_display_media
NoLieFe
# NoLieFe 2014-03-01 18:40
Thanks for your review. A thing puzzle me: the ring of Kevin's father connected to an old phrase that Crowley said to Kevin (8.02): "Surprising what mommy dearest has rattling around in her head. Want to know who your real father is? Scandalous."
Maybe we'll have a new story with this and find out who is the father of Kevin
NoLieFe
# NoLieFe 2014-03-01 18:40
Thanks for your review. A thing puzzle me: the ring of Kevin's father connected to an old phrase that Crowley said to Kevin (8.02): "Surprising what mommy dearest has rattling around in her head. Want to know who your real father is? Scandalous."
Maybe we'll have a new story with this and find out who is the father of Kevin
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:01
Quoting njspnfan:

Do you think the Mark of Cain is in any way influencing/exacerbating Sam and Dean's "issues" and Dean's apparent isolation? They do seem to be at loggerheads, with Dean doubling down, saying he'd do it all over again.


From observing Sam and Dean's actions, my guess is that it is not affecting Sam. I have been concerned about Dean's thought processes, looks, reactions, etc. though. I've given a few examples and screen shots in the past few articles where Dean has seem hardened. My personal opinion is that the MoC will affect him and him alone, as it seems to have affected Cain.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:01
Quote:

Do you think the Mark of Cain is in any way influencing/exacerbating Sam and Dean's "issues" and Dean's apparent isolation? They do seem to be at loggerheads, with Dean doubling down, saying he'd do it all over again.
From observing Sam and Dean's actions, my guess is that it is not affecting Sam. I have been concerned about Dean's thought processes, looks, reactions, etc. though. I've given a few examples and screen shots in the past few articles where Dean has seem hardened. My personal opinion is that the MoC will affect him and him alone, as it seems to have affected Cain.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:10
Quoting cheryl42:
Do you think the reason Abbadon was outside a Castle Storage facility is because she in looking for John's locker? Maybe she was also looking for the info on The First Blade. Or it could be a Biggersons nod.


I/we originally thought that Abaddon's presence at a Castle Storage meant that it was the SAME Castle storage as John's locker. Sam and Dean's casual reaction to another CS in this ep, though, makes me believe there is no connection.

Quoting cheryl42:

I am sure the tablets still have a part to play and Kevin is the only one who can translate them other than Metatron. Hmm...maybe a return of Kevin at some point? I would assume they would have to be translated to open heaven.


I tend to agree with you. I wrote an article several weeks ago entitled "Is Kevin Really Gone?". With his return this week, I am more encouraged that he might be a recurring character. I watched Osric's live viewing of the show where he talked about his last scene giving him closure. I think there are a lot of plot holes though that he can still fill.

The alternative is that the tablets stay hidden, or deposited in Heaven, or somewhere else where they are no longer accessible to the brothers. That would end their drive to close gates, need prophets, etc. A neat ending to that story arc.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:10
Quote:
Do you think the reason Abbadon was outside a Castle Storage facility is because she in looking for John's locker? Maybe she was also looking for the info on The First Blade. Or it could be a Biggersons nod.
I/we originally thought that Abaddon's presence at a Castle Storage meant that it was the SAME Castle storage as John's locker. Sam and Dean's casual reaction to another CS in this ep, though, makes me believe there is no connection.

Quote:

I am sure the tablets still have a part to play and Kevin is the only one who can translate them other than Metatron. Hmm...maybe a return of Kevin at some point? I would assume they would have to be translated to open heaven.
I tend to agree with you. I wrote an article several weeks ago entitled "Is Kevin Really Gone?". With his return this week, I am more encouraged that he might be a recurring character. I watched Osric's live viewing of the show where he talked about his last scene giving him closure. I think there are a lot of plot holes though that he can still fill.

The alternative is that the tablets stay hidden, or deposited in Heaven, or somewhere else where they are no longer accessible to the brothers. That would end their drive to close gates, need prophets, etc. A neat ending to that story arc.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:13
#5 njspnfan: Superwiki tweeted an open question trying to confirm the number of the boys' bedroom doors. Someone said 22 and 23, but I thought it looked like 2J. I'll keep studying the shot.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:13
#5 njspnfan: Superwiki tweeted an open question trying to confirm the number of the boys' bedroom doors. Someone said 22 and 23, but I thought it looked like 2J. I'll keep studying the shot.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:14
Quoting NoLieFe:
Thanks for your review. A thing puzzle me: the ring of Kevin's father connected to an old phrase that Crowley said to Kevin (8.02): "Surprising what mommy dearest has rattling around in her head. Want to know who your real father is? Scandalous."
Maybe we'll have a new story with this and find out who is the father of Kevin


Wow!! Excellent catch! I remember that line now. I think I will add that to our threads!
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:14
Quote:
Thanks for your review. A thing puzzle me: the ring of Kevin's father connected to an old phrase that Crowley said to Kevin (8.02): "Surprising what mommy dearest has rattling around in her head. Want to know who your real father is? Scandalous."
Maybe we'll have a new story with this and find out who is the father of Kevin
Wow!! Excellent catch! I remember that line now. I think I will add that to our threads!
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:16
#1 Trucklady and #2 love2boys: Thank you for reading each week. I always look forward to your comments!
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-01 20:16
#1 Trucklady and #2 love2boys: Thank you for reading each week. I always look forward to your comments!
Bluepony
# Bluepony 2014-03-01 20:28
Thanks for your review. So much going on in the show. So many directions this could go that it makes for a great story.

I agree I believe the MOC is only affecting Dean. I'm afraid that if he shuts himself off from the brotherhood he will turn as ruthless and cold as he was in purgatory. Even the monsters were running from him there. A very scary scenario.
Bluepony
# Bluepony 2014-03-01 20:28
Thanks for your review. So much going on in the show. So many directions this could go that it makes for a great story.

I agree I believe the MOC is only affecting Dean. I'm afraid that if he shuts himself off from the brotherhood he will turn as ruthless and cold as he was in purgatory. Even the monsters were running from him there. A very scary scenario.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-01 20:47
Actually it doesn't look like a number at all. It either looks like a door knocker or a symbol. I thought 23 rooms seemed like a lot of bedrooms. But isn't Sam looking very sad here.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-01 20:47
Actually it doesn't look like a number at all. It either looks like a door knocker or a symbol. I thought 23 rooms seemed like a lot of bedrooms. But isn't Sam looking very sad here.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-01 21:11
Alright just to get a little silly what does the sign on the wall behind Sam say. I can't make it out.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-01 21:11
Alright just to get a little silly what does the sign on the wall behind Sam say. I can't make it out.
eilf
# eilf 2014-03-01 22:34
Quoting cheryl42:
Alright just to get a little silly what does the sign on the wall behind Sam say. I can't make it out.


Oh I love a puzzle! It appears to me to say 'No S. West access Pt. Corridor 39 Trann F.'

(that last bit is odd ... Trann? As in Tran with an extra n?)
eilf
# eilf 2014-03-01 22:34
Quote:
Alright just to get a little silly what does the sign on the wall behind Sam say. I can't make it out.
Oh I love a puzzle! It appears to me to say 'No S. West access Pt. Corridor 39 Trann F.'

(that last bit is odd ... Trann? As in Tran with an extra n?)
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-01 22:55
Wow good eyesight or magnifying glass. I couldn't make that out at all. I love that bunker.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-01 22:55
Wow good eyesight or magnifying glass. I couldn't make that out at all. I love that bunker.
resa22
# resa22 2014-03-01 23:18
I really love this review and all the points it brings up.

I also love what they are finally doing with Castiel. I believe he's finally come full circle and is in a much better place for it. I love him being an unassuming leader.

Quoting nightsky:
#5 njspnfan: Superwiki tweeted an open question trying to confirm the number of the boys' bedroom doors. Someone said 22 and 23, but I thought it looked like 2J. I'll keep studying the shot.


Did they get a shot of the door at the beginning of the ep? Or Dean's at the beginning? Maybe it's clearer there. But the link giving does look like 2J.

Another option to Kevin and the tablets is Crowley since Crowley could read Kevin's translation and told Dean that the spell was irreversible which I don't believe for a minute. I think Crowley knows more than he's letting on but is holding on to the info until he absolutely needs to use it. Not that I don't want to see Kevin again because I do. Just pointing out that there is more than one way to go with this particular thread and perhaps Kevin's blood helped Crowley decipher Kevin's translations.

Question: Maybe someone knows because I can't remember. Is Metatron an archangel? Didn't they say something about archangels were the ones that threatened him? Does that mean that an arch is needed to overthrow (or kill) him?

As for as the MoC, I'm not sure what influence it's having on Dean, if any at the moment, because I could see him having the same reactions right now without the Mark. The same goes with Sam. But, I do know the longer Sam drags this out, the farther Dean will isolate himself which will leave him open to its influence. And, before anyone 'upset' with me for "blaming Sam", I'm not. I am merely pointing out that at the end of last week's ep, Dean turned to talk to Sam who was already leaving the room. This indicates to me that Dean is willing to talk but Sam is not ready yet. That's is all I am saying. I've read several comments arguing whose turn it is to start this much needed conversation and, from what I saw, Dean just tried again, only to be shut down from his perspective. Considering it came on the heels of their promise to Kevin as well as the look on Dean's face when he isolated himself in his room again, I really think that Dean is shutting himself down again, like nightsky pointed out, he's hardening himself as he resigns himself to their non-brother, work relationship. Someone stated that he looked 'pissed' and that could be but I think hurt and resignation was more prevalent.

I believe the longer this goes on, the more isolated he will become and the harder it will be for him to believe Sam in the end. I'm not sure if he'll only go to where he was in Purgatory. If that's as far as he goes, we'll be lucky. He could go demonic (aka Alistair's star pupil), considering we still don't know what the "great burden" is that comes with it. Or what will happen when Dean gets the first blade and kills Cain with it. Dean could be assigned the task (through the MoC) to develop the new KoH order. Or he could become immortal like Cain.

That would actually be two threads we are missing right? Or would it just be one?

As much as it worries me, this new MoC storyline has me stoked. So many possibilities. Wonder what Cas will have to say to Dean about it.

Also wonder why Sam hasn't called Cas to ask about it. We all know why Dean hasn't. Can you image what Cas would say to him?
resa22
# resa22 2014-03-01 23:18
I really love this review and all the points it brings up.

I also love what they are finally doing with Castiel. I believe he's finally come full circle and is in a much better place for it. I love him being an unassuming leader.

Quote:
#5 njspnfan: Superwiki tweeted an open question trying to confirm the number of the boys' bedroom doors. Someone said 22 and 23, but I thought it looked like 2J. I'll keep studying the shot.
Did they get a shot of the door at the beginning of the ep? Or Dean's at the beginning? Maybe it's clearer there. But the link giving does look like 2J.

Another option to Kevin and the tablets is Crowley since Crowley could read Kevin's translation and told Dean that the spell was irreversible which I don't believe for a minute. I think Crowley knows more than he's letting on but is holding on to the info until he absolutely needs to use it. Not that I don't want to see Kevin again because I do. Just pointing out that there is more than one way to go with this particular thread and perhaps Kevin's blood helped Crowley decipher Kevin's translations.

Question: Maybe someone knows because I can't remember. Is Metatron an archangel? Didn't they say something about archangels were the ones that threatened him? Does that mean that an arch is needed to overthrow (or kill) him?

As for as the MoC, I'm not sure what influence it's having on Dean, if any at the moment, because I could see him having the same reactions right now without the Mark. The same goes with Sam. But, I do know the longer Sam drags this out, the farther Dean will isolate himself which will leave him open to its influence. And, before anyone 'upset' with me for "blaming Sam", I'm not. I am merely pointing out that at the end of last week's ep, Dean turned to talk to Sam who was already leaving the room. This indicates to me that Dean is willing to talk but Sam is not ready yet. That's is all I am saying. I've read several comments arguing whose turn it is to start this much needed conversation and, from what I saw, Dean just tried again, only to be shut down from his perspective. Considering it came on the heels of their promise to Kevin as well as the look on Dean's face when he isolated himself in his room again, I really think that Dean is shutting himself down again, like nightsky pointed out, he's hardening himself as he resigns himself to their non-brother, work relationship. Someone stated that he looked 'pissed' and that could be but I think hurt and resignation was more prevalent.

I believe the longer this goes on, the more isolated he will become and the harder it will be for him to believe Sam in the end. I'm not sure if he'll only go to where he was in Purgatory. If that's as far as he goes, we'll be lucky. He could go demonic (aka Alistair's star pupil), considering we still don't know what the "great burden" is that comes with it. Or what will happen when Dean gets the first blade and kills Cain with it. Dean could be assigned the task (through the MoC) to develop the new KoH order. Or he could become immortal like Cain.

That would actually be two threads we are missing right? Or would it just be one?

As much as it worries me, this new MoC storyline has me stoked. So many possibilities. Wonder what Cas will have to say to Dean about it.

Also wonder why Sam hasn't called Cas to ask about it. We all know why Dean hasn't. Can you image what Cas would say to him?
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2014-03-02 01:21
I just want to point out to everyone who is assuming that what happened with the closing of Heaven is also what would have happened with the closing of Hell this is Not necessarily true.

Remember Metatron used a non traditional spell, I suspect was of his own making ,to expell all the angels out of Heaven - which I don't believe would have been the result if he'd used the spell from the tablet.

Metatron crafted that spell for the express purpose of punishing the angels, not locking up Heaven. Locking Heaven to fresh souls may have simply been a side effect he didn't plan, after all he fully expected to see Castiel again in Heaven as a fresh soul. The spell on the tablet to close Heaven probably bears no resemblance to the spell Metatron used and the end result would have been to lock everyone up in Heaven including all the angels, or rather that's what Castiel believed.

I think the tablet spell the brothers were using would have closed Hell differently than the way Heaven was closed in that it would not have expelled all of the demons to Earth although that possibly is intriguing and still remains.

Just ,IMO, guys.
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2014-03-02 01:21
I just want to point out to everyone who is assuming that what happened with the closing of Heaven is also what would have happened with the closing of Hell this is Not necessarily true.

Remember Metatron used a non traditional spell, I suspect was of his own making ,to expell all the angels out of Heaven - which I don't believe would have been the result if he'd used the spell from the tablet.

Metatron crafted that spell for the express purpose of punishing the angels, not locking up Heaven. Locking Heaven to fresh souls may have simply been a side effect he didn't plan, after all he fully expected to see Castiel again in Heaven as a fresh soul. The spell on the tablet to close Heaven probably bears no resemblance to the spell Metatron used and the end result would have been to lock everyone up in Heaven including all the angels, or rather that's what Castiel believed.

I think the tablet spell the brothers were using would have closed Hell differently than the way Heaven was closed in that it would not have expelled all of the demons to Earth although that possibly is intriguing and still remains.

Just ,IMO, guys.
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2014-03-02 01:29
Another few questions !Why didn't any of these fresh souls just go to Purgatory? Is that closed too? If these souls are trapped in the veil can they be accessed as a power source by any being that wants them like an angle or demon? If so what if Castiel accesses those souls or Crowley? Is that why Metatron is puttering around on Earth?

I'm going to assume that souls earmarked for Hell are still getting carded at the door though. If Heaven is not getting fresh souls, does this not make Metatron's power finite and make him a lot less of a God than he thinks he is?

Hopefully these questions will get answered before season end and maybe the Heaven issue will be mostly resolved so the concentration can be on Hell in the tenth season.
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2014-03-02 01:29
Another few questions !Why didn't any of these fresh souls just go to Purgatory? Is that closed too? If these souls are trapped in the veil can they be accessed as a power source by any being that wants them like an angle or demon? If so what if Castiel accesses those souls or Crowley? Is that why Metatron is puttering around on Earth?

I'm going to assume that souls earmarked for Hell are still getting carded at the door though. If Heaven is not getting fresh souls, does this not make Metatron's power finite and make him a lot less of a God than he thinks he is?

Hopefully these questions will get answered before season end and maybe the Heaven issue will be mostly resolved so the concentration can be on Hell in the tenth season.
mary9930
# mary9930 2014-03-02 08:11
Thanks Nightsky. I really needed to see that Chuck quote from the end of season 5. You've raised some great points and there have been some great comments.

Quoting resa22:
Also wonder why Sam hasn't called Cas to ask about it. We all know why Dean hasn't. Can you image what Cas would say to him?


Good point. Cas should know something about the Mark of Cain. Maybe it's time for Cas to knock a little sense into Dean, again :)

@ lkeke35 #18 & 19, great points about Metatron's spell & whether it makes him less powerful with so many soul stuck in the veil.
mary9930
# mary9930 2014-03-02 08:11
Thanks Nightsky. I really needed to see that Chuck quote from the end of season 5. You've raised some great points and there have been some great comments.

Quote:
Also wonder why Sam hasn't called Cas to ask about it. We all know why Dean hasn't. Can you image what Cas would say to him?
Good point. Cas should know something about the Mark of Cain. Maybe it's time for Cas to knock a little sense into Dean, again :)

@ lkeke35 #18 & 19, great points about Metatron's spell & whether it makes him less powerful with so many soul stuck in the veil.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-02 09:21
Quoting resa22:

Question: Maybe someone knows because I can't remember. Is Metatron an archangel? Didn't they say something about archangels were the ones that threatened him? Does that mean that an arch is needed to overthrow (or kill) him?


Metatron is not an archangel. He introduced himself as being a clerk from the steno (typing) pool. When whining to Naomi, he talked about being "plucked from obscurity". I think he can be killed with a normal angel blade.

Quoting resa22:

As for as the MoC, I'm not sure what influence it's having on Dean, if any at the moment, because I could see him having the same reactions right now without the Mark. The same goes with Sam.

...what will happen when Dean gets the first blade and kills Cain with it. Dean could be assigned the task (through the MoC) to develop the new KoH order. Or he could become immortal like Cain.

That would actually be two threads we are missing right? Or would it just be one?


I had a thought last night (as I lay in bed unable to go to sleep). A few weeks ago I read a comment from someone who wondered how much sleep Dean was getting. They thought that he looked tired and observed that Dean stayed up all night researching the MoC. I realized that both nighttime shots of him in his room in Captives also showed him laying awake. I'm wondering if the MoC keeps the wearer awake 24/7. Not sleeping was a side effect of not having a soul (Sam, S6). Maybe Dean is doing research and listening to music at night because he can't sleep. Let me know your thoughts, but I am adding it to the list of possible MoC "costs".

Resa22, We are tracking the most probable costs of the MoC as a thread already. We talked about the First Blade separately for several weeks, but I dropped it off the list last week because it didn't seem to offer any clues as to what would happen to Dean. I guess I didn't care if he went evil solely because of having the mark, or because he used the blade while wearing the mark. Do you think it needs to be added back? Or are you saying that wearing the mark makes Dean obey orders from Lucifer, like creating KoH? My guess is that Cain had to obey that order because he was a demon, but the MoC gave him the power to create Knights. Interesting thought...
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-02 09:21
Quote:

Question: Maybe someone knows because I can't remember. Is Metatron an archangel? Didn't they say something about archangels were the ones that threatened him? Does that mean that an arch is needed to overthrow (or kill) him?
Metatron is not an archangel. He introduced himself as being a clerk from the steno (typing) pool. When whining to Naomi, he talked about being "plucked from obscurity". I think he can be killed with a normal angel blade.

Quote:

As for as the MoC, I'm not sure what influence it's having on Dean, if any at the moment, because I could see him having the same reactions right now without the Mark. The same goes with Sam.

...what will happen when Dean gets the first blade and kills Cain with it. Dean could be assigned the task (through the MoC) to develop the new KoH order. Or he could become immortal like Cain.

That would actually be two threads we are missing right? Or would it just be one?
I had a thought last night (as I lay in bed unable to go to sleep). A few weeks ago I read a comment from someone who wondered how much sleep Dean was getting. They thought that he looked tired and observed that Dean stayed up all night researching the MoC. I realized that both nighttime shots of him in his room in Captives also showed him laying awake. I'm wondering if the MoC keeps the wearer awake 24/7. Not sleeping was a side effect of not having a soul (Sam, S6). Maybe Dean is doing research and listening to music at night because he can't sleep. Let me know your thoughts, but I am adding it to the list of possible MoC "costs".

Resa22, We are tracking the most probable costs of the MoC as a thread already. We talked about the First Blade separately for several weeks, but I dropped it off the list last week because it didn't seem to offer any clues as to what would happen to Dean. I guess I didn't care if he went evil solely because of having the mark, or because he used the blade while wearing the mark. Do you think it needs to be added back? Or are you saying that wearing the mark makes Dean obey orders from Lucifer, like creating KoH? My guess is that Cain had to obey that order because he was a demon, but the MoC gave him the power to create Knights. Interesting thought...
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-02 09:31
Quoting lkeke35:
I just want to point out to everyone who is assuming that what happened with the closing of Heaven is also what would have happened with the closing of Hell this is Not necessarily true.

Remember Metatron used a non traditional spell, I suspect was of his own making ,to expell all the angels out of Heaven - which I don't believe would have been the result if he'd used the spell from the tablet.

Metatron crafted that spell for the express purpose of punishing the angels, not locking up Heaven. Locking Heaven to fresh souls may have simply been a side effect he didn't plan, after all he fully expected to see Castiel again in Heaven as a fresh soul. The spell on the tablet to close Heaven probably bears no resemblance to the spell Metatron used and the end result would have been to lock everyone up in Heaven including all the angels, or rather that's what Castiel believed.

I think the tablet spell the brothers were using would have closed Hell differently than the way Heaven was closed in that it would not have expelled all of the demons to Earth although that possibly is intriguing and still remains.

Just ,IMO, guys.


I totally agree with you. I did remember that Metatron used a spell instead of the tablet "lever" instructions. I was thinking of that when I said "if this is confirmed" in the Heaven discussion. Thank you for expanding and clarifying the point, though. I think it is an important distinction and may make the difference of whether it can be applied to Hell's gates. IF trapping inhabitants in (demons) or throwing inhabitants out (angels) also closes down gates, though, I think it would be something that neither Metatron nor the brothers anticipated. A thought...I wonder if that is what Crowley read in the angel tablet, when he said "interesting"!
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-02 09:31
Quote:
I just want to point out to everyone who is assuming that what happened with the closing of Heaven is also what would have happened with the closing of Hell this is Not necessarily true.

Remember Metatron used a non traditional spell, I suspect was of his own making ,to expell all the angels out of Heaven - which I don't believe would have been the result if he'd used the spell from the tablet.

Metatron crafted that spell for the express purpose of punishing the angels, not locking up Heaven. Locking Heaven to fresh souls may have simply been a side effect he didn't plan, after all he fully expected to see Castiel again in Heaven as a fresh soul. The spell on the tablet to close Heaven probably bears no resemblance to the spell Metatron used and the end result would have been to lock everyone up in Heaven including all the angels, or rather that's what Castiel believed.

I think the tablet spell the brothers were using would have closed Hell differently than the way Heaven was closed in that it would not have expelled all of the demons to Earth although that possibly is intriguing and still remains.

Just ,IMO, guys.
I totally agree with you. I did remember that Metatron used a spell instead of the tablet "lever" instructions. I was thinking of that when I said "if this is confirmed" in the Heaven discussion. Thank you for expanding and clarifying the point, though. I think it is an important distinction and may make the difference of whether it can be applied to Hell's gates. IF trapping inhabitants in (demons) or throwing inhabitants out (angels) also closes down gates, though, I think it would be something that neither Metatron nor the brothers anticipated. A thought...I wonder if that is what Crowley read in the angel tablet, when he said "interesting"!
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-02 09:39
#20 Mary9930: It IS time someone talked to Cas!! I don't think he could talk sense into Dean, though. I think only the boys talking to each other is going to fix anything.

Heaven's "power" is probably stalled at the level it was at when Metatron shut everything down. I don't think heaven's human souls were expelled with the angels, so they are still powering Heaven same as before. Metatron will still have his angel power from that, even though you are right that he probably won't get stronger.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-03-02 09:39
#20 Mary9930: It IS time someone talked to Cas!! I don't think he could talk sense into Dean, though. I think only the boys talking to each other is going to fix anything.

Heaven's "power" is probably stalled at the level it was at when Metatron shut everything down. I don't think heaven's human souls were expelled with the angels, so they are still powering Heaven same as before. Metatron will still have his angel power from that, even though you are right that he probably won't get stronger.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-02 12:27
I thought that Metatron was introduced as an archangel in S7 when we first met Kevin Tran. That was when Sam hilariously thought Cas was saying Megatron the transformer. But then in TGE he said he was a run of the mill angel. So I am not sure who he is supposed to be other than an evil manipulator.
At the end of the Purge it looked like Dean wasn't sleeping and again in Captives. The show hasn't made a huge deal out of it yet but they didn't with SS either for 6(?) episodes.
I think Crowley wanted Dean to involve Sam in their quest because he has a plan to wipe everyone out, Abbadon as well as the Winchesters. I think he has a huge roll to play yet. I think he saw something in that translation that would shut down heaven and since hell is still open for business it will be hell on earth.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-03-02 12:27
I thought that Metatron was introduced as an archangel in S7 when we first met Kevin Tran. That was when Sam hilariously thought Cas was saying Megatron the transformer. But then in TGE he said he was a run of the mill angel. So I am not sure who he is supposed to be other than an evil manipulator.
At the end of the Purge it looked like Dean wasn't sleeping and again in Captives. The show hasn't made a huge deal out of it yet but they didn't with SS either for 6(?) episodes.
I think Crowley wanted Dean to involve Sam in their quest because he has a plan to wipe everyone out, Abbadon as well as the Winchesters. I think he has a huge roll to play yet. I think he saw something in that translation that would shut down heaven and since hell is still open for business it will be hell on earth.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-03-02 13:07
Quoting cheryl42:
I thought that Metatron was introduced as an archangel in S7 when we first met Kevin Tran. That was when Sam hilariously thought Cas was saying Megatron the transformer. But then in TGE he said he was a run of the mill angel. So I am not sure who he is supposed to be other than an evil manipulator.
At the end of the Purge it looked like Dean wasn't sleeping and again in Captives. The show hasn't made a huge deal out of it yet but they didn't with SS either for 6(?) episodes.
I think Crowley wanted Dean to involve Sam in their quest because he has a plan to wipe everyone out, Abbadon as well as the Winchesters. I think he has a huge roll to play yet. I think he saw something in that translation that would shut down heaven and since hell is still open for business it will be hell on earth.


True, everyone thought Metatron was an archangel He told Sam and Dean that he wasn't in 8.21 The Great Escapist

So, at this point, we're taking Metatron at his word that he isn't an archangel. I don't remember any corroboration on this either way. But.. he did manage to escape Naomi's dental chair of angel torture.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-03-02 13:07
Quote:
I thought that Metatron was introduced as an archangel in S7 when we first met Kevin Tran. That was when Sam hilariously thought Cas was saying Megatron the transformer. But then in TGE he said he was a run of the mill angel. So I am not sure who he is supposed to be other than an evil manipulator.
At the end of the Purge it looked like Dean wasn't sleeping and again in Captives. The show hasn't made a huge deal out of it yet but they didn't with SS either for 6(?) episodes.
I think Crowley wanted Dean to involve Sam in their quest because he has a plan to wipe everyone out, Abbadon as well as the Winchesters. I think he has a huge roll to play yet. I think he saw something in that translation that would shut down heaven and since hell is still open for business it will be hell on earth.
True, everyone thought Metatron was an archangel He told Sam and Dean that he wasn't in 8.21 The Great Escapist

So, at this point, we're taking Metatron at his word that he isn't an archangel. I don't remember any corroboration on this either way. But.. he did manage to escape Naomi's dental chair of angel torture.
Lynn
# Lynn 2014-03-03 12:52
I love your optimism here, especially that Chuck's voice (and Kripke's emphasis on family as what saves us all) are what is still narrating the story and anchoring the ongoing arc. That's what I want desperately to believe! Fingers crossed that we're right.

Am also loving the Star Trek references and totally missed the possible Red Shirt connection. lol. Good catch!

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis here. Let's see what tomorrow brings...
Lynn
# Lynn 2014-03-03 12:52
I love your optimism here, especially that Chuck's voice (and Kripke's emphasis on family as what saves us all) are what is still narrating the story and anchoring the ongoing arc. That's what I want desperately to believe! Fingers crossed that we're right.

Am also loving the Star Trek references and totally missed the possible Red Shirt connection. lol. Good catch!

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis here. Let's see what tomorrow brings...
digyd
# digyd 2014-03-03 13:07
So many threads to watch, Nightsky. I remain amazed by those of you keeping score like this. :-) All I wanted to say is that Georgia dot looks like Atlanta to me.
digyd
# digyd 2014-03-03 13:07
So many threads to watch, Nightsky. I remain amazed by those of you keeping score like this. :-) All I wanted to say is that Georgia dot looks like Atlanta to me.