The Garden of Eden has played a beautiful backdrop to the season storylines---and in “Holy Terror,” we realize that it has been the epicenter for which all the stories revolve around elegantly. The Garden and the Fall have been laced throughout the episodes leading up to this one in very particular ways. Supernatural wisely uses this trope further to link these storylines together to form a complete tapestry. While each story seemed to be its own separate piece, it has become apparent that they are all linked by this one common theme: The Garden of Eden and the Fall of Man.

In the season opener, we began this journey by watching a now mortal Castiel navigate the world as the new Adam. He was forced to take care of himself, shed his angelic vestiges, and adapt to his new situation---or die. He had to learn how to eat and to sleep. Castiel had to endure wounds such as the gash on his hand that he wouldn't have in his angelic form. We watched him become homeless and destitute, running from all the other angels after him.

Castiel experienced much as a mortal---from losing his virginity to experiencing a menial job. He, like the baby he ends up babysitting, is simply trying to cope with being thrust into the harsh reality that is the world. As the new Adam after the Fall from Heaven, he was the one that had to change the most to fit into the scheme of his new surroundings and situations. For the most part, he did fairly well at acquiring a new job and fitting in as a simple man.

But in “Holy Terror,” we are seeing his story come full circle---and in many ways it is his story that stands as metaphor and foreshadow for others in the fabric of season nine.


Castiel arrives on scene to the same angelic battle site that the Winchesters have been drawn to. He may have been told to stand aside, that this Heaven business was no longer his concern, but he wants to play a role in fixing that situation in any way he can---and so he is here to assist however they'll let him. He is already asking questions when they arrive, trying to figure out what is happening between his angelic brothers and sisters.

He tells Sam and Dean, “These angels were butchered---much more violence than is required.” It would seem that the Heavenly battles that happened upstairs are now occurring with more frequency and violence downstairs on earth.

As he is forced to investigate on his own, Castiel turns to prayer, reaching out to what he hopes will be a friendly angel that will help him in his current mortal state fix what Metatron has broken. He is visited by an angel named Muriel, and she is neutral between the two parties currently battling to be the one that will take on the Scribe.

But Castiel's prayer also draws other angels, and he is soon captured, weak and human surrounded by angels.

As he's left to be tortured, to be forced to admit his role in Metatron's scheme, and to ultimately admit to being the Scribe's accomplice and not victim, the torturer Theo asks the rendered human angel to put a good word in for him with Metatron. Castiel quickly plays into this scheme, gaining his freedom and the trust of this angel. He is a serpent brought into Malachi's lair, and he will take Theo's grace to walk out as a restored angel.


In this way, Castiel's season story mirrors and foreshadows the other stories occurring in the season. He is the new Adam after the Fall of Heaven, he is the serpent unleashed in one of the warring angel lairs, and he is the foreshadow perhaps to the end of Metatron's spell that has locked out all angels from Heaven.

Castiel's story has served, on the surface, as signposts for what is to come in the other threads. But what are these other stories and how do they correlate with the Garden of Eden and Fall of Man trope? What are the Gardens and who are the Serpents that threaten them?

The first Garden is, of course, the original Garden of Eden. It is a familiar story that we have all heard at some point. In the Biblical Genesis story, God creates the world in six days---and creates man and woman in His holy image to inhabit the Garden. But he has a command for his human creations: they are to never eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge lest they be punished by death. And so, a serpent comes to Eve, the woman, and tempts her with the allure of eating the fruit, telling her, “God knows that when you eat the fruit of that tree, you will know things you have never known before. You will be able to tell the difference between good and evil. You will be like God.”

And so, Eve eats of the fruit and convinces Adam to do the same. When God finds out, He is angry and punishes them by casting them out of the Garden into the harsh world outside it---left to fend for themselves and cope with the knowledge that they do know now about good and evil.


We learn, however, that someone was responsible for the serpent entering the Garden---that someone was to protect it from this intrusion. Metatron confronts “Ezekiel,” after he leaves the bar that Sam, Dean, and Castiel were meeting in---and there he reveals the true identity of the angel currently possessing Sam. It is not Ezekiel. It is, instead, Gadreel, the angel that was, as Metatron states, “God's most trusted.” He had been tasked with protecting the Garden of Eden, to keep all evil at bay, and yet he failed.

It is a stunning revelation, thrusting the Garden of Eden story not simply as metaphor for the angelic fall, but rather as literal. Gadreel, for his failure, was punished by being locked in Heaven's prison until the spell that caused the Fall released him. Now that he is on earth, the angel claims he would like to reclaim his name---that “the stories about me-they are not true.”

The second Garden is the earth itself. While it may be polluted by the evil and dangers that came after the Fall of Man, it is still full of good and beauty. It is the human realm. In many ways, it is the very place that the Winchesters swear to protect---and have---from the supernatural that threatens. It may not be as idyllic as the original Garden of Eden, but it has love and family. It has art. Humans, imbued with the knowledge that the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge wrought, have brought as much good to the earth as bad---and it is that good that makes it a Garden worth protecting.

The third Garden is Heaven. It is an obvious correlation that Heaven would be to the angels what the Garden of Eden would be to humans. It was God's realm, made for them to live in a form of paradise and for them to protect from evil. Heaven is supposed to be a beautiful realm filled with love and wonder and grace. We saw that in the various Heavens that human souls have created---such as the autistic man who endlessly flies a kite---the favorite “heaven” that Castiel liked to visit.


As we've seen in the past on Supernatural, however, Heaven is far from being the peaceful place it can be often imagined. It is full of war and factions and struggle. Since the Winchesters successfully stopped the Apocalypse, it has seen many leaders come and go and endured much bloodshed. Castiel purged many angels in his wrath. Naomi controlled much of the angels by using her techniques. In her own death, a swath of new warring leaders has emerged to do battle upon one another, grasping at the reins of power any way that they can.

In many ways, angels are warriors and soldiers. In the Bible, angels smite Sodom and Gomorrah, they are viewed as being terrifying to look upon, and they are fierce. It's no wonder that Supernatural has taken that view and laced it through their interpretation of angels.

Heaven is not a place of peace by any means---but to an angel it was and is still considered very much their Garden of Eden and they would like nothing more than to reclaim it back.


The fourth Garden of Eden that this season has explored beautifully is the Men of Letters Bunker. It has become a safe haven, a base of power---and most importantly a home. It is a treasure of information, protected from people and creatures looking to find its location, and still revealing its secrets to its new residents. When we were first introduced to it, Abaddon, a Knight of Hell, wanted the key to it, to take its information and power for her and Hell's own. Sam was warned to throw the key away into a safe place, to protect it from all evil. It is a special place, a true Garden.

It has a kitchen, a computer room, a garage, bedrooms to be claimed by each Winchester brother, an exhaustive library, a dungeon, and more yet to be seen. It is the place the Winchesters go to lick wounds, catch their breath, relax, and find some information on their latest hunts. It is the place they retreat to when the world comes crashing in around them. In a short time, this has become their long sought Garden after many years in the cold.

We saw this best in “Slumber Party,” as they are watching shows with Charlie and exploring more of their home all the while protecting it from a threat.

The fifth and final Garden is Sam Winchester and the brotherhood between Sam and Dean.

Sam Winchester is a man, yes. Unlike the other Gardens, he is not a place. But he is a Garden nonetheless---especially in the metaphor that has laced through this season in so many ways. He is not perfect, and we all know his mistakes from drinking demon blood to releasing Lucifer---and yet through it all he has been a good man trying to do what he thinks is the right thing not just for himself but for the world. It is why he has the strength to throw himself into the pit while being possessed by Lucifer.

At the end of season eight and the start of season nine, however, Sam was hanging in the balance, hovering between life and death.


As his life is so tied with his brother's, that means the brotherhood that he shares with Dean is also a Garden. It is the relationship that they build everything on and around in their lives. It is why they fight the supernatural, protect one another, and do what they must. They are stronger when working together, and as Charlie puts it, “There is pretty much nothing the Winchesters can't do if they work together.”

This Garden is what gives them their strength and comfort when it is darkest. It is their brotherhood that makes their story so powerful and moving. And, it is why we, as the viewer, keep watching.

So, what has season nine done to disrupt these various Gardens? Much like the original story in Genesis, a serpent is the culprit. For each Garden, there is a serpent that corresponds and thus corrupts.

In the first Garden, the original Garden, the serpent is often associated with Satan---in another words, Lucifer himself. But as Metatron posits, “Your one task was to keep evil from entering, from befouling his cherished creation mankind and you failed it,” we're left to wonder if it was another angel that is to blame for Adam and Eve eating of the Tree of Knowledge. Gadreel is also associated with the serpent, the one that slithered in and corrupted the Garden by causing Man to Fall. In some of the mythology surrounding Gadreel, it is even said that this angel is the father of Cain and that he is the one that taught man weaponry and the ways of war.


It is a stunning revelation, considering which vessel he has chosen to possess. Sam, being Lucifer's true vessel, is now being possessed by an angel that may have been the Satan at the Garden all those years ago.

The second serpent are the angels themselves. As they have crashed to earth in the surprising and mysterious “meteor shower” shown on the news at various points, they have been duping humanity into trusting them and giving permission for possessing them. Bartholomew's group has gone as far as to recruit the Reverend Buddy Boyle to tell everyone to “let the angels on in,” no matter the consequences.


In “Holy Terror,” we see that this is much more subversive than earlier believed. There are more factions out there recruiting, preying upon the religious beliefs of their intended targets. A glee choir, consisting of all woman---all possessed---arrive at a bar and enter to find the place full of bikers. These bikers, too, are possessed, and a battle ensues with all the biker angels dead and the glee singers leaving victorious.

Humanity and the earth Garden is under great duress and threat from these warring angels, and as they've been cast out from Heaven, they are trying to cope in the harsh reality outside it. Rather than adapt, however, they've chosen to wage the same wars they were engaged in up in Heaven down here, catching everyone in its cross-hairs.

It is poignant that they are serpents---much as the original serpent in the Garden of Eden may have been---an angel. They tell them only good things will come, and as the leader of the glee singer angels tells a group of unknowing victims, “You are exactly what God and his angels have in mind for the Crusade.” She is luring them with what they want to hear, with the right incentive to give over their bodies to the angels floating above, looking for vessels to possess.


Her worst lie is that the angels only want to feel these unwitting victim's love.

We know, however, that not all “willing” participants are capable of doing so, as we've seen the young girl in Boyle's office suffer the consequences. Many of the people who listen to these serpents will find themselves severely punished for their efforts. Some will die quickly and painfully as she did. Others may be possessed for a long time---centuries perhaps. Jimmy Novak equated being possessed by Castiel once as being “chained to a comet,” and these people who have willingly surrendered their bodies to these angels will learn this the hard way.

The third serpent is Metatron himself. He caused the angels to fall. In this storyline, he's the original serpent, the one that unleashed everything that's happened after concerning the angels and their pollutions of Gardens. He used his silver tongue to convince Castiel that they were going to lock Heaven up, angels inside, and fix the issues that have plagued Heaven all along---and more particular since the failure of the Apocalypse and the death or imprisonment of all the archangels. He is a serpent that knows how to use his words effectively and dangerously to achieve dark ends.

We saw it again in “Holy Terror,” as he confronts Gadreel. He tells the sullied angel precisely what he would like to hear in such a way that Gadreel will have little choice but to fall under the sway of the Scribe. Metatron tells him about joining him, “This move will erase the mark that has hounded you through the centuries. Heaven will be restored as will your reputation as one of its greatest heroes.” It is exactly the language required to seal the deal---and Gadreel in his desperation is grateful for the opportunity.


It is the button the Scribe of God must press if he wants this angel on his side to be the sword to his pen. He must have the brute force and strength of a warrior type angel, and since he's already burned through Castiel, he'll prey on another that will suit his purposes. Gadreel is ripe for the picking, his desperation palpable once his true identity has been revealed. In fact, he knows that the angel has little choice but to accept Metatron's offer---or face the consequences of a potential blackmail.

Metatron fulfills the serpent metaphor of the Garden of Eden well---but not as well as Gadreel does himself.

The original serpent---if rumors are to be believed despite Gadreel's vehement denials----has infected two Gardens with one move. By possessing Sam Winchester he invades the Garden of the Men of Letters Bunker and that of Sam Winchester and the brotherhood that Sam and Dean share. He, not unlike Metatron, talked quickly to achieve his aims and wormed his way into gaining the trust of Dean. He tells the elder Winchester that his name is Ezekiel, and Castiel vouches for this angel. As he tries to heal Sam, he tells Dean that the only way to do so is from the inside, and so he finds a way to possess Sam. His empathetic approach seems genuine in the beginning---but it is his serpentine nature at brilliant work.

Gadreel further tries to cement his good standing by later reviving Castiel and Charlie, protecting Sam when under extreme duress as we see in “Devil May Care” in the fight with the demons and again after the attack by Chef Leo in “Dog Dean Afternoon.” He puts on a good appearance of only wanting to heal Sam, to do his part to show that not all angels are against Dean and Castiel, and that he's there to help human kind as their original mission intended. For the most part, it works. He has Dean's trust as Ezekiel and even earns a nickname: “Zeke.”


And yet, as we see in “Holy Terror,” the platitudes about taking a bit longer, just a little more time to heal Sam have become more and more like a broken record. At the end of “Rock and a Hard Place,” it becomes glaringly apparent that “Ezekiel” is holding Sam hostage and that Dean must do something quickly if he wants his brother back from this angelic possession.

We---and Dean---are also left to wonder just how much “healing” the angel has done in his time possessing Sam. At the beginning of this process, Sam seems rejuvenated, well-rested, healthy and ready to hit the hunting circuit full steam again. But as time has progressed, the younger Winchester has returned to the tired and fatigued form we witnessed during the Trials. He is unable to “recharge his batteries,” and is finding himself wobbly and worn down. Some of the spark for the hunt is missing again---and we wonder now how much Gadreel is drawing perhaps from Sam's soul or not healing him at all.

By possessing Sam Winchester, Gadreel possesses a strong vessel, one capable of not only containing an angel, but an archangel. Sam was designed to contain the contaminated and corrupt Lucifer, to withstand an eternity of possession perhaps. We watched Lucifer's other vessel, Nick, break down slowly over time, burning away from the immense power. Sam is a vessel that will stand up to and against almost anything an angelic possession can throw at it, and Gadreel knows it. He also sees possessing a vessel like Sam as his ticket to accomplishing his goal of restoring his sullied name.

While Gadreel has been the serpent to invade the Garden that is Sam Winchester, he's also been the serpent slithering around and between the Winchester brotherhood. Right or wrong, Dean made a decision to save his brother's life---and he took the chance he had offered to do it. While Sam may have expressed a wish to die in the cabin with Death, we also know that Sam had spent months during the Trials telling Dean that he wanted to live at the end. He told his brother, “I want to kill a hellhound and not die, how about you?” He told Dean that there was a light at the end of the tunnel, meaning a better life---not death. For Dean, he listened to what had been said while Sam was awake, in the midst of the Trials, not what was said between Sam and Death while the younger Winchester was in a coma.

Dean let Gadreel in by convincing Sam to say yes---all the while not knowing the full extent of the serpent he'd let in. Gadreel began worming between the brothers from the moment he took possession, telling Dean not to say a word to Sam---using careful language. He tells the elder Winchester, “Without his acceptance, Sam can eject me at any time, especially with me so weak. And if Sam does eject me, he will die. ” It is language that would make Dean heel and do as told in order to protect his brother.


As time went on, Gadreel kept manipulating Sam's memories and telling Dean not to say a word---but also went as far as to isolate Dean from Castiel. While his warning that the angels are hunting the now mortal angel is very valid, it is only masking the truth that Gadreel kept hidden so well. He was afraid that he, a prisoner in Heaven's deepest dungeon, would be found out and severely punished before he was ready to fight back. He hid this fact under Castiel's danger---and as he tells Dean in “Holy Terror,” “When I chose to answer your prayers and heal Sam, I chose sides. That means I'm not in good standing with certain angels.”

Dean, however, has become impatient and Gadreel knows it. He can only fend off Castiel's presence for so long---and keep feeding Dean the same line about needing more time to heal Sam. And so, when Metatron, another serpent, begins to weave a beautiful tale to him, he sees not only his chance to break free of the threat Castiel poses or the burden of being with Sam and Dean, he sees his chance to take what he's always wanted: redemption.

As a serpent himself, Gadreel overhears Dean and Kevin talking, and he knows what they plan to do. He knows that Dean has decided to expel him and he must act quickly in order to keep his vessel. So he alters the sigil and waits for Dean to enter the trap. He plays Sam “convincingly,” as Lucifer had once before, and drives a bigger wedge---or so he thinks---between Sam and Dean by having Sam storm off after punching the elder Winchester.


His final act revealing his true serpent self is that of attacking and killing the prophet, Kevin Tran. It is brutal, cold, and a clear statement that Gadreel has chosen his side. Metatron told him that he needed to prove his fidelity, that he must kill the person named on the card given to him, and that once that is done he will be the Scribe's second in command in their plan to rebuild Heaven to the Garden it was always meant to be---or at least the Garden Metatron's always envisioned it to be.

His killing of Kevin---while in the safety of the Men of Letters Bunker---puts that place in serious question. This angel knows where it is and is possessing someone who knows how to gain access. It is now a Garden that has been infected with a serpent, and it is now only a matter of time before we see how compromised this place, this haven, this home, this Garden has become.

What's fascinating about Gadreel's overall storyline, however, is that he reflects both Sam and Dean so wonderfully. The obvious feature of that is that he possesses Sam Winchester, but that is only the physical similarities. Dig deeper, and we see that Gadreel and Sam are much alike in story and scope. They are both trying to gain the same thing: redemption. They are, in many ways, mirrors to one another.

Gadreel let evil into the Garden of Eden---either by his own action or by letting someone he trusted in, perhaps Lucifer, perhaps someone else---and for that he has been punished ever since. He has carried the weight of that mistake and that act with him ever since. Sam Winchester, too, let evil out when he released Lucifer from his Cage by killing Lilith. He has spent his time since in many ways trying to redeem that mistake.


Gadreel poses as mirror to Sam Winchester in this way---he is earnest when he tells Metatron, “The stories about me---they are not true!” He seems genuine in wanting to fix that long ago mistake, to set right what he had done wrong---but we can't trust him. He's revealed himself too much to be a serpent that taints the Garden in which he inhabits. That is where is similarity with Sam Winchester ends.

Perhaps it is because he is an angel. Much the same way Castiel couldn't quite grasp humanity and forgiveness until he too became human, Gadreel can't quite grasp what redemption really means---and unlike Sam, he won't ever truly attain it, especially as long as he listens to the ultimate serpent of season nine: Metatron.

Gadreel also mirrors Dean in a beautiful way, too. Gadreel was charged with protecting the Garden of Eden from all evil. This was his assigned task, given to him by his Father, God. He was to stand as sentinel and guardian. It was his one purpose. But he failed and evil entered it and corrupted it anyways.

Dean has spent his entire life protecting Sam, trying to keep evil away from his brother, and to fix what the supernatural world has inflicted upon Sam since he was a mere six months old. His task, too, was assigned to him by his father, John Winchester, from the moment Sam was thrust into his arms and Dean was told to run outside.

In many ways, Dean has succeeded by giving Sam the opportunity and ability to hope for a better tomorrow, a better world, and that light at the end of the tunnel. He's encouraged Sam in many ways. Dean has stood by his brother steadfastly when he needed him most---as he did in Stull. It is his love that has given Sam strength---and allowed the younger brother to reciprocate that.

In others, he's failed. Dean couldn't stop Sam from drinking demon blood or from killing Lilith. He couldn't protect Sam from the fall out of being rendered soulless, and he couldn't stop the hallucinations that came after Castiel shattered the Wall. Dean couldn't stop the Trials from affecting his brother's body, either.

So, when we see him take Gadreel's offer, it is Dean trying to heal his brother in an act of desperation---and it may be one of his greatest failures to protect his brother. As Gadreel had let the serpent into the Garden, Dean let Gadreel into the Garden that is Sam. In the beginning, it looked promising, the only choice on the table, one that might actually work out in the end. Gadreel worked hard on making it seem he was trustworthy, empathetic, and kind---especially as he tells another angel that they are creatures of “compassion.”

But that's often how serpents look to those that fall under their spell. It's often too late when we realize that they are the evil that we let in---and the consequences are far reaching.


We're left with the final image in this episode, a physical testament to Dean's failure to not only protect his brother, but to protect Kevin Tran. After Gadreel has smote the prophet, Dean is left alone with the burned body, his pose one of defeat and sorrow.

Each of the Gardens have been each infected with a serpent---as we enter the back half of the season, we will have to wait and see how each serpent is dealt with---Gadreel and Metatron being foremost the two most dangerous out of the angelic serpents.

Curtis Armstrong returns as the vindictive and fast-talking Metatron. Just as when we first met him in “The Great Escapist,” Metatron puts on an air of self-effacing, such as when he tells Gadreel that he wouldn't take the name of God, and yet this time we know for certain what lurks underneath that veneer. Armstrong takes that false modesty to another level and shows his character's prideful nature best when he talks Gadreel into being his second command. Not unlike the way the Scribe once convinced Castiel to do the spell that cast the angels out, here we see Metatron play to this angel's weaknesses---promising him that he'll have his name cleared by the end of this. At this point in the performance, Armstrong gives Metatron a slickness that makes him both charismatic and off-putting all at once. We can tell that he's not strong enough to pull off whatever he's planning alone---but we know that he's not as weak as he'd like us to believe, either. Armstrong also makes use of subtle body language to show that Metatron is gaining the upper-hand with Gadreel---a much larger angel while using Sam as a vessel certainly---and in a way almost makes himself the bigger presence on screen for it. As we delve into the second half of the season, it'll be interesting to see just what Metatron plans---and how Armstrong plans on presenting the manipulative angel.


Osric Chau makes his final (perhaps!) appearance on Supernatural as Kevin Tran, and he shows in this performance that the prophet has come quite a long way since we were first were introduced to the frightened Advanced Placement student. Both his character and Chau's acting have grown. He's taken the role and truly made it his own in so many ways. Kevin began unsure and terrified of the supernatural world crashing his normal life---and yet as we watched him navigate it we saw him become a courageous young man. Chau took Kevin's transition into his hands, showing us at each turning point how Kevin became the confident prophet we grew to know. At the start, Kevin was portrayed as skittish and in need of a guiding hand----but by the end we knew Kevin to be capable and a valuable asset to the Winchesters and the cause. Chau put a lot of steel into Kevin's character as we see him on the run from Crowley, facing down the King of Hell alone to translate the tablet, and his confidence when telling the Winchesters what he's learned about the Trials to name a few. We also saw Chau make Kevin a real human trying to navigate his place in a difficult situation, granting us empathy for his character in instances where he's faced with the loss of his mother or the anger at the one responsible. The young man we first met wouldn't have tried to do these things. We've watched Chau mine the inner strength Kevin Tran never knew he had beautifully on screen. It was also nice to see the chemistry between Chau and several of the other actors build into something special---especially Ackles and Sheppard. As this is Supernatural and being dead isn't always the end, if there's any chance to do it, they should find a way to bring this brave prophet back to the show!

Misha Collins begins the episode as a human and eager Castiel, ready to help out on the case about the violent angel battles. The former angel seems rejuvenated when the Winchesters arrive, already in an FBI suit and ready to investigate. There's a childlike innocence in how Collins presents these scenes---from the way he delivers the line, “Cas is back in town,” to how he goes about securing another round of beers. He wants to help any way he can, and while he may be limited as a human that hasn't stopped him from being eager and willing. As we see him take to his hotel room, we see Castiel do something very human---he prays. Collins makes this scene equally moving and funny all at once. We can sense in his performance here that the former angel has a vulnerability---and yet we laugh at the endless poses he uses while praying fervently. The dry way Collins delivers the lines, “I don't know how humans do it” is spot on. After we see him captured, the eager childlike nature we saw earlier falls away to reveal the solider we've known since Castiel's introduction. He is calculating and steely. Once Castiel manages to take in the other angel's grace, we see him fully restored as the angel---complete with focus and stoicism that's come to mark the character. In many ways, we saw Collins explore different avenues with Castiel in this first half, and now that he has returned to his angelic self it will be interesting to see how he uses what he learned while human in the remainder of the season.


Jensen Ackles gave an emotional and powerful performance in “Holy Terror.” His body language conveys the mounting tension building on the elder Winchester. We can sense that he's beyond his breaking point and that he wants nothing more than to level with Sam---but can't. There's fear in his performance at these moments---as if he's scrambling to find a way out and fast. His body conveys how uncomfortable he is with keeping this secret, and Ackles shows this best when Dean has to convince Castiel to not talk about his leaving the Bunker in front of Sam. When the levee breaks finally, and Dean unloads the truth onto who he thinks is his brother, we see Ackles truly shine. He is emotional, powerful on screen, and moving here as he admits to his miscalculation and mistake. He begs Sam to understand for now---and we can sense when he delivers the line, “You can beat my ass later,” that Dean wants nothing more to be punished. When he emerges to see Gadreel kill Kevin, we see Ackles show how broken Dean is, as he is held against the wall helpless. That last moment as he stares at Kevin's burned and battered body, we see the dam break and Ackles gives us the fitting and emotional end to close out the episode.

Jared Padalecki continues to show his skill beautifully in multiple roles. His transition from Sam to Gadreel and back again is masterful and seamless each time. We see this in the way he switches without missing a beat when the brothers are driving down the road and Gadreel falls away to be replaced mid-sentence by Sam. Padalecki also delivers on Sam's mounting frustration and confusion, showing it best in vocal tone and body language that conveys how difficult this time loss is becoming. He shows great amusement at Castiel's presence at the bar, especially in how he delivers the greeting, “Agent.” As Gadreel takes more precedence, we see Padalecki form the character carefully. He shows the angel's frustration with Castiel's presence simply in angry facial expressions and the tightness in his voice. We can feel the angel's regret in how he expresses his innocence about the evil let into the garden and his hope that he can now redeem his name when he tells Metatron, “I am grateful for this opportunity.” Padalecki, however, wows best when he plays Gadreel playing Sam in the confrontation scene between Sam and Dean. He has all of Sam's mannerisms down perfectly in this scene---and yet there is the slightest variation that is missed by an emotionally distraught Dean. Padalecki gives Gadreel's farce away, however, when Dean states that the real Ezekiel is dead. We see the devastation and grief in his features---something that wouldn't have impacted as greatly on the real Sam. It is subtle and brief. It will be interesting to see how Padalecki handles playing both roles in the back half---and for how much longer he'll do that.

Best Lines of the Week:

Malachi: I don't deal with handmaidens.

Malachi: Virtue is its own punishment.

Castiel: Cas is back in town.

Dean: Haven't I always said that angels are dicks?

Kevin: I always trust you, and I always end up screwed.

Is it January 14 yet?



Comments  

nappi815
# nappi815 2013-12-07 22:22
i always look forward to your reviews. thank you yet again for such insight. always such a pleasure read.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-12-07 22:22
i always look forward to your reviews. thank you yet again for such insight. always such a pleasure read.
JudyLee
# JudyLee 2013-12-07 23:40
I thoroughly enjoyed your comparison and contrast of all the aspects of the Garden and Gadreel. I also appreciate and give you "mad props" for the amount of investigation and consideration that went into this piece.

I think Osric's extended tweet about his feelings regarding the killing of Kevin Tran, AP, was the most gut wrenching piece I've read, and I would be thrilled to have him come back and tweet "psych" after being restored by Cas in the next episode. I'm holding on to that hope.

Endless kudos to the writers for keeping us on the edge of our seats. I'm tickled to hear the boys talking at the conventions about the story arc extending through Season 10 ... and possibly beyond. And I can't wait to get more of that delicious Mark Sheppard. (No, I am not his alias.)
JudyLee
# JudyLee 2013-12-07 23:40
I thoroughly enjoyed your comparison and contrast of all the aspects of the Garden and Gadreel. I also appreciate and give you "mad props" for the amount of investigation and consideration that went into this piece.

I think Osric's extended tweet about his feelings regarding the killing of Kevin Tran, AP, was the most gut wrenching piece I've read, and I would be thrilled to have him come back and tweet "psych" after being restored by Cas in the next episode. I'm holding on to that hope.

Endless kudos to the writers for keeping us on the edge of our seats. I'm tickled to hear the boys talking at the conventions about the story arc extending through Season 10 ... and possibly beyond. And I can't wait to get more of that delicious Mark Sheppard. (No, I am not his alias.)
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-12-08 01:58
Brilliant review Allison... really fascinating reading! :-)

I love how this episode has sparked so many interesting interpretations and speculation about what is to come. It was a wonderful mid-season finale with so much tension... and so much hurt... I can't seem to stop thinking about it :sad:

I was impressed by all the actors in this episode, but was completely in awe of Jensen & Jared. How is it possible that they get better and better with every season? :-?

In particular, it was the final moments of the episode that blew me away. Jensen's portrayal of Dean, from the moment he found out that Zeke wasn't Zeke, was brilliant - his desperation to find a solution to the problem and then his utter despair at the consequences. Kevin dead and Sam gone! It's just so tragic and Jensen was phenomenal.

I've loved Jared's performance as Sam/Zeke/Gad this season but, again, those final scenes were just so incredible. On the first watch I didn't pick that it wasn't Sam when Dean was telling him about Zeke/Gad. It was only on the re-watch that I picked up on the subtle differences.

This was such a nuanced performance by Jared and, for me, the give away comes at the moment when Dean says that Sam has to try to evict the angel. You can actually see the hurt in Gadreel's eyes. I personally think that Gadreel was clinging to the hope that Dean would just confront him and ask for an explanation... that he'd be given an opportunity to explain. His expression in that scene is one of disappointment, then anger. I actually don't think Gadreel had decided to go through with Metatron's plan until that moment. It was just the feeling I got on the re-watch. Either way, it was brilliant work by Jared. So flawless.

It is going to be torture waiting until 14 January... but it's such a busy time in the lead-up to Christmas that hopefully hellatus won't be too difficult for us all :D
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-12-08 01:58
Brilliant review Allison... really fascinating reading! :-)

I love how this episode has sparked so many interesting interpretations and speculation about what is to come. It was a wonderful mid-season finale with so much tension... and so much hurt... I can't seem to stop thinking about it :sad:

I was impressed by all the actors in this episode, but was completely in awe of Jensen & Jared. How is it possible that they get better and better with every season? :-?

In particular, it was the final moments of the episode that blew me away. Jensen's portrayal of Dean, from the moment he found out that Zeke wasn't Zeke, was brilliant - his desperation to find a solution to the problem and then his utter despair at the consequences. Kevin dead and Sam gone! It's just so tragic and Jensen was phenomenal.

I've loved Jared's performance as Sam/Zeke/Gad this season but, again, those final scenes were just so incredible. On the first watch I didn't pick that it wasn't Sam when Dean was telling him about Zeke/Gad. It was only on the re-watch that I picked up on the subtle differences.

This was such a nuanced performance by Jared and, for me, the give away comes at the moment when Dean says that Sam has to try to evict the angel. You can actually see the hurt in Gadreel's eyes. I personally think that Gadreel was clinging to the hope that Dean would just confront him and ask for an explanation... that he'd be given an opportunity to explain. His expression in that scene is one of disappointment, then anger. I actually don't think Gadreel had decided to go through with Metatron's plan until that moment. It was just the feeling I got on the re-watch. Either way, it was brilliant work by Jared. So flawless.

It is going to be torture waiting until 14 January... but it's such a busy time in the lead-up to Christmas that hopefully hellatus won't be too difficult for us all :D
Simpatico
# Simpatico 2013-12-08 07:01
I agree with KG_SPN, I do believe Gadreel was hoping to clearing his name by working with Team Free Will. God in this story wants humanity to have self determination and this is the mission he speaks of to Dean when they first meet. He only succumbed to Metatron when he overheard Dean plotting to oust him from his vessel. At that point Gadreel gave up on humanity and simply wanted to return home.
Simpatico
# Simpatico 2013-12-08 07:01
I agree with KG_SPN, I do believe Gadreel was hoping to clearing his name by working with Team Free Will. God in this story wants humanity to have self determination and this is the mission he speaks of to Dean when they first meet. He only succumbed to Metatron when he overheard Dean plotting to oust him from his vessel. At that point Gadreel gave up on humanity and simply wanted to return home.
mary9930
# mary9930 2013-12-08 10:10
What a brilliant review! I had to pause many times reading it to take it all in. Sam as the Garden & Dean as a serpent was very insightful but devastating.

I agree with KG_SPN that the hurt of the situation moved Gadreel as much as his need for redemption. Simpatico, your idea that he originally just wanted to join Team Free Will breaks my heart.

I can easily forgive Dean for his serpent like actions. Maybe the undercurrent of the redemption theme involves how the serpent behaves in the aftermath of allowing evil in. Dean figures out a way to tell Sam even though it doesn't work. Gadreel gives up on Team Free Will as his way to redemption and sides with Metatron. I could still be open to his redemption if it only involved choosing the wrong side and didn't involve killing Kevin. That's a deal breaker as far as I'm concern.
mary9930
# mary9930 2013-12-08 10:10
What a brilliant review! I had to pause many times reading it to take it all in. Sam as the Garden & Dean as a serpent was very insightful but devastating.

I agree with KG_SPN that the hurt of the situation moved Gadreel as much as his need for redemption. Simpatico, your idea that he originally just wanted to join Team Free Will breaks my heart.

I can easily forgive Dean for his serpent like actions. Maybe the undercurrent of the redemption theme involves how the serpent behaves in the aftermath of allowing evil in. Dean figures out a way to tell Sam even though it doesn't work. Gadreel gives up on Team Free Will as his way to redemption and sides with Metatron. I could still be open to his redemption if it only involved choosing the wrong side and didn't involve killing Kevin. That's a deal breaker as far as I'm concern.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 12:00
Quoting nappi815:
i always look forward to your reviews. thank you yet again for such insight. always such a pleasure read.


Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. It was a fun one to write.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 12:00
Quote:
i always look forward to your reviews. thank you yet again for such insight. always such a pleasure read.
Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. It was a fun one to write.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 12:06
Quoting JudyLee:
I thoroughly enjoyed your comparison and contrast of all the aspects of the Garden and Gadreel. I also appreciate and give you "mad props" for the amount of investigation and consideration that went into this piece.

I think Osric's extended tweet about his feelings regarding the killing of Kevin Tran, AP, was the most gut wrenching piece I've read, and I would be thrilled to have him come back and tweet "psych" after being restored by Cas in the next episode. I'm holding on to that hope.

Endless kudos to the writers for keeping us on the edge of our seats. I'm tickled to hear the boys talking at the conventions about the story arc extending through Season 10 ... and possibly beyond. And I can't wait to get more of that delicious Mark Sheppard. (No, I am not his alias.)


Thanks for the wonderful comment.

This whole Garden/Serpent thing came to me as soon as Metatron fingered Gadreel's real identity. it just piqued my interest and the more I thought about it, the more I saw how the season was surrounding this theme. The fact that Gadreel was connected with the original serpent in the Garden of Eden or WAS the serpent---one associated with Lucifer---just made me go AH HA!

I didn't see Osric's post until I was putting together notes and saw a link to it posted at Super Wiki. I was so floored by what he said. Osric and Kevin will ALWAYS be a part of our Supernatural Family. I understand the reasoning for why Metatron wanted him dead and why it happened, but I, too, hope they can find a way to bring our dear Prophet back. Kevin's one of those characters I hate to see leave because he's grown so much on me, as has Osric's portrayal of him.

I've heard the boys talk about a potential season 10 and maybe more in passing, but I had no idea they were saying the current mythology bleeds into season 10. Judging by the ratings wins we've had and both Js being signed on for it, I'm not concerned about us getting one. I'm sure we'll get it, but to hear they want MORE after is awesome. I, too, am pleased by how the writers have kept us on the edge and explored these various angelic mythologies to tell the story so well. It's been a fascinating season 9.

Thanks again for the great comment!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 12:06
Quote:
I thoroughly enjoyed your comparison and contrast of all the aspects of the Garden and Gadreel. I also appreciate and give you "mad props" for the amount of investigation and consideration that went into this piece.

I think Osric's extended tweet about his feelings regarding the killing of Kevin Tran, AP, was the most gut wrenching piece I've read, and I would be thrilled to have him come back and tweet "psych" after being restored by Cas in the next episode. I'm holding on to that hope.

Endless kudos to the writers for keeping us on the edge of our seats. I'm tickled to hear the boys talking at the conventions about the story arc extending through Season 10 ... and possibly beyond. And I can't wait to get more of that delicious Mark Sheppard. (No, I am not his alias.)
Thanks for the wonderful comment.

This whole Garden/Serpent thing came to me as soon as Metatron fingered Gadreel's real identity. it just piqued my interest and the more I thought about it, the more I saw how the season was surrounding this theme. The fact that Gadreel was connected with the original serpent in the Garden of Eden or WAS the serpent---one associated with Lucifer---just made me go AH HA!

I didn't see Osric's post until I was putting together notes and saw a link to it posted at Super Wiki. I was so floored by what he said. Osric and Kevin will ALWAYS be a part of our Supernatural Family. I understand the reasoning for why Metatron wanted him dead and why it happened, but I, too, hope they can find a way to bring our dear Prophet back. Kevin's one of those characters I hate to see leave because he's grown so much on me, as has Osric's portrayal of him.

I've heard the boys talk about a potential season 10 and maybe more in passing, but I had no idea they were saying the current mythology bleeds into season 10. Judging by the ratings wins we've had and both Js being signed on for it, I'm not concerned about us getting one. I'm sure we'll get it, but to hear they want MORE after is awesome. I, too, am pleased by how the writers have kept us on the edge and explored these various angelic mythologies to tell the story so well. It's been a fascinating season 9.

Thanks again for the great comment!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 12:15
Quoting KG_SPN:
Brilliant review Allison... really fascinating reading! :-)

I love how this episode has sparked so many interesting interpretations and speculation about what is to come. It was a wonderful mid-season finale with so much tension... and so much hurt... I can't seem to stop thinking about it :sad:

I was impressed by all the actors in this episode, but was completely in awe of Jensen & Jared. How is it possible that they get better and better with every season? :-?

In particular, it was the final moments of the episode that blew me away. Jensen's portrayal of Dean, from the moment he found out that Zeke wasn't Zeke, was brilliant - his desperation to find a solution to the problem and then his utter despair at the consequences. Kevin dead and Sam gone! It's just so tragic and Jensen was phenomenal.

I've loved Jared's performance as Sam/Zeke/Gad this season but, again, those final scenes were just so incredible. On the first watch I didn't pick that it wasn't Sam when Dean was telling him about Zeke/Gad. It was only on the re-watch that I picked up on the subtle differences.

This was such a nuanced performance by Jared and, for me, the give away comes at the moment when Dean says that Sam has to try to evict the angel. You can actually see the hurt in Gadreel's eyes. I personally think that Gadreel was clinging to the hope that Dean would just confront him and ask for an explanation... that he'd be given an opportunity to explain. His expression in that scene is one of disappointment, then anger. I actually don't think Gadreel had decided to go through with Metatron's plan until that moment. It was just the feeling I got on the re-watch. Either way, it was brilliant work by Jared. So flawless.

It is going to be torture waiting until 14 January... but it's such a busy time in the lead-up to Christmas that hopefully hellatus won't be too difficult for us all :D



Thanks for the great comment. I'm glad you enjoyed it so much.

I am way impressed by how the acting of everyone on this show seems to get better, but yes, the Js are totally nailing it this season and growing and becoming even better actors for it. It's a treat to watch!

Jensen really had me when he started to confront who he thought was Sam. His unloading of the whole truth and the way he said, "You can't beat my ass," just hit me. It's like that one statement said it all, that Dean WANTED his brother to punish him severely for what he's done. Jensen sold me on that just from his acting alone.

I didn't pick up on Sam being Gadreel until my second watch, either. Once I knew he wasn't really Sam, I honed in on that part of the performance and started to notice little things. In my latest rewatch, I noticed that Jared has Gadreel try to sell it just a tad much, but it's oh so subtle that it is missed. I also loved that he flashed Gadreel's pain and grief at learning that Ezekiel is actually dead. That's the first thing I noticed that was telling me this wasn't actually Sam in that scene in my first rewatch. He's devastated. He had chosen to hide as Ezekiel for a reason---and to learn that angel he held in high esteem was dead, it was all over Jared's face while he was trying to sell Gadreel as Sam.

Interesting thought you bring up about Gadreel only going through with killing Kevin because Dean hadn't asked him to explain/ That hadn't occurred to me, but now that you mention it I can see how that makes perfect sense. He wants to be seen as a hero, a good guy, redeemed from his long ago mistake in the Garden of Eden. This was supposed to be his second chance. Dean not trying to hear him out would be that line in the sand for him to cross form not joining Metatron to joining and turning his back on humanity indeed. Thanks for that great insight!

And may Hellatus go by quickly!

Thanks again!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 12:15
Quote:
Brilliant review Allison... really fascinating reading! :-)

I love how this episode has sparked so many interesting interpretations and speculation about what is to come. It was a wonderful mid-season finale with so much tension... and so much hurt... I can't seem to stop thinking about it :sad:

I was impressed by all the actors in this episode, but was completely in awe of Jensen & Jared. How is it possible that they get better and better with every season? :-?

In particular, it was the final moments of the episode that blew me away. Jensen's portrayal of Dean, from the moment he found out that Zeke wasn't Zeke, was brilliant - his desperation to find a solution to the problem and then his utter despair at the consequences. Kevin dead and Sam gone! It's just so tragic and Jensen was phenomenal.

I've loved Jared's performance as Sam/Zeke/Gad this season but, again, those final scenes were just so incredible. On the first watch I didn't pick that it wasn't Sam when Dean was telling him about Zeke/Gad. It was only on the re-watch that I picked up on the subtle differences.

This was such a nuanced performance by Jared and, for me, the give away comes at the moment when Dean says that Sam has to try to evict the angel. You can actually see the hurt in Gadreel's eyes. I personally think that Gadreel was clinging to the hope that Dean would just confront him and ask for an explanation... that he'd be given an opportunity to explain. His expression in that scene is one of disappointment, then anger. I actually don't think Gadreel had decided to go through with Metatron's plan until that moment. It was just the feeling I got on the re-watch. Either way, it was brilliant work by Jared. So flawless.

It is going to be torture waiting until 14 January... but it's such a busy time in the lead-up to Christmas that hopefully hellatus won't be too difficult for us all :D
Thanks for the great comment. I'm glad you enjoyed it so much.

I am way impressed by how the acting of everyone on this show seems to get better, but yes, the Js are totally nailing it this season and growing and becoming even better actors for it. It's a treat to watch!

Jensen really had me when he started to confront who he thought was Sam. His unloading of the whole truth and the way he said, "You can't beat my ass," just hit me. It's like that one statement said it all, that Dean WANTED his brother to punish him severely for what he's done. Jensen sold me on that just from his acting alone.

I didn't pick up on Sam being Gadreel until my second watch, either. Once I knew he wasn't really Sam, I honed in on that part of the performance and started to notice little things. In my latest rewatch, I noticed that Jared has Gadreel try to sell it just a tad much, but it's oh so subtle that it is missed. I also loved that he flashed Gadreel's pain and grief at learning that Ezekiel is actually dead. That's the first thing I noticed that was telling me this wasn't actually Sam in that scene in my first rewatch. He's devastated. He had chosen to hide as Ezekiel for a reason---and to learn that angel he held in high esteem was dead, it was all over Jared's face while he was trying to sell Gadreel as Sam.

Interesting thought you bring up about Gadreel only going through with killing Kevin because Dean hadn't asked him to explain/ That hadn't occurred to me, but now that you mention it I can see how that makes perfect sense. He wants to be seen as a hero, a good guy, redeemed from his long ago mistake in the Garden of Eden. This was supposed to be his second chance. Dean not trying to hear him out would be that line in the sand for him to cross form not joining Metatron to joining and turning his back on humanity indeed. Thanks for that great insight!

And may Hellatus go by quickly!

Thanks again!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 12:22
Quoting mary9930:
What a brilliant review! I had to pause many times reading it to take it all in. Sam as the Garden & Dean as a serpent was very insightful but devastating.

I agree with KG_SPN that the hurt of the situation moved Gadreel as much as his need for redemption. Simpatico, your idea that he originally just wanted to join Team Free Will breaks my heart.

I can easily forgive Dean for his serpent like actions. Maybe the undercurrent of the redemption theme involves how the serpent behaves in the aftermath of allowing evil in. Dean figures out a way to tell Sam even though it doesn't work. Gadreel gives up on Team Free Will as his way to redemption and sides with Metatron. I could still be open to his redemption if it only involved choosing the wrong side and didn't involve killing Kevin. That's a deal breaker as far as I'm concern.


Thanks for the great comment!

I don't see Dean as a serpent himself. He let Gadreel, a serpent, in. I think that Dean wanted to save his brother so badly and he trusted what Castiel had told him about Ezekiel because he needed to---and by the time he learns that it is NOT Ezekiel it's too late. It's devastating because he had let this angel in on good faith, in a time of desperation and need, and instead he was lied to and Sam has paid that price---as has Kevin.

I agree that Dean has a chance to redeem from what he's done and it's how he'll react after they deal with the serpent Gadreel.

I'm not sure if Gadreel can be redeemed at this point, however. He has chosen Metatron clearly now, and by killing Kevin he's crossed the line forever when it comes to humanity. Gadreel wanted so badly to be redeemed, and I think he still is trying to find that. It's clear that he's decided to be redeemed in angel's eyes---not human's---and I wonder how that'll shape his serpent story in the second half.

Thanks again for the great comment!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 12:22
Quote:
What a brilliant review! I had to pause many times reading it to take it all in. Sam as the Garden & Dean as a serpent was very insightful but devastating.

I agree with KG_SPN that the hurt of the situation moved Gadreel as much as his need for redemption. Simpatico, your idea that he originally just wanted to join Team Free Will breaks my heart.

I can easily forgive Dean for his serpent like actions. Maybe the undercurrent of the redemption theme involves how the serpent behaves in the aftermath of allowing evil in. Dean figures out a way to tell Sam even though it doesn't work. Gadreel gives up on Team Free Will as his way to redemption and sides with Metatron. I could still be open to his redemption if it only involved choosing the wrong side and didn't involve killing Kevin. That's a deal breaker as far as I'm concern.
Thanks for the great comment!

I don't see Dean as a serpent himself. He let Gadreel, a serpent, in. I think that Dean wanted to save his brother so badly and he trusted what Castiel had told him about Ezekiel because he needed to---and by the time he learns that it is NOT Ezekiel it's too late. It's devastating because he had let this angel in on good faith, in a time of desperation and need, and instead he was lied to and Sam has paid that price---as has Kevin.

I agree that Dean has a chance to redeem from what he's done and it's how he'll react after they deal with the serpent Gadreel.

I'm not sure if Gadreel can be redeemed at this point, however. He has chosen Metatron clearly now, and by killing Kevin he's crossed the line forever when it comes to humanity. Gadreel wanted so badly to be redeemed, and I think he still is trying to find that. It's clear that he's decided to be redeemed in angel's eyes---not human's---and I wonder how that'll shape his serpent story in the second half.

Thanks again for the great comment!
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-12-08 15:09
One of the stories of Gadreel is that he is the father of Cain. What if the evil or the temptation that was let into the garden was that Gadreel fell in love with Eve and that was the forbidden fruit. Instead of Gadreel being cast into hell as Lucifer has been the punishment was angel prison for seducing/corrup ting Gods creation. I have a feeling that Gadreel is playing Metatron to his own end. He seemed truly shocked that no angels were in heaven and he seemed truly sorry about Kevin but "ultimately it was for the best." And why spare Dean? He told Kevin that Dean would be fine. There is so much to the story I just hope that tptb have enough season left to do all the sorylines justice.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-12-08 15:09
One of the stories of Gadreel is that he is the father of Cain. What if the evil or the temptation that was let into the garden was that Gadreel fell in love with Eve and that was the forbidden fruit. Instead of Gadreel being cast into hell as Lucifer has been the punishment was angel prison for seducing/corrup ting Gods creation. I have a feeling that Gadreel is playing Metatron to his own end. He seemed truly shocked that no angels were in heaven and he seemed truly sorry about Kevin but "ultimately it was for the best." And why spare Dean? He told Kevin that Dean would be fine. There is so much to the story I just hope that tptb have enough season left to do all the sorylines justice.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 15:25
Quoting cheryl42:
One of the stories of Gadreel is that he is the father of Cain. What if the evil or the temptation that was let into the garden was that Gadreel fell in love with Eve and that was the forbidden fruit. Instead of Gadreel being cast into hell as Lucifer has been the punishment was angel prison for seducing/corrupting Gods creation. I have a feeling that Gadreel is playing Metatron to his own end. He seemed truly shocked that no angels were in heaven and he seemed truly sorry about Kevin but "ultimately it was for the best." And why spare Dean? He told Kevin that Dean would be fine. There is so much to the story I just hope that tptb have enough season left to do all the sorylines justice.


Thanks for the comment.

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point. Metatron has leverage over Gadreel concerning his identity with the other angels. I'll be curious to see just what Gadreel might use against him---if he gets the chance pending the resumption of the season.

I'm very hopeful for the remainder of the season. There's a lot of episodes left and I'm excited to see just where they take it as we make our way towards May.

Thanks again!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 15:25
Quote:
One of the stories of Gadreel is that he is the father of Cain. What if the evil or the temptation that was let into the garden was that Gadreel fell in love with Eve and that was the forbidden fruit. Instead of Gadreel being cast into hell as Lucifer has been the punishment was angel prison for seducing/corrupting Gods creation. I have a feeling that Gadreel is playing Metatron to his own end. He seemed truly shocked that no angels were in heaven and he seemed truly sorry about Kevin but "ultimately it was for the best." And why spare Dean? He told Kevin that Dean would be fine. There is so much to the story I just hope that tptb have enough season left to do all the sorylines justice.
Thanks for the comment.

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point. Metatron has leverage over Gadreel concerning his identity with the other angels. I'll be curious to see just what Gadreel might use against him---if he gets the chance pending the resumption of the season.

I'm very hopeful for the remainder of the season. There's a lot of episodes left and I'm excited to see just where they take it as we make our way towards May.

Thanks again!
Cat
# Cat 2013-12-08 16:00
Thank you for your insightful review! I really appreciated your analysis of the serpent/Garden of Eden theme.

About Gadreel, I'm not quite sure if he has definitely chosen Metatron, precisely because he wants to redeem himself. He did seem reluctant to "prove his fidelity" by killing someone. He ended up killing Kevin, but that was only Metatron's first order. Gadreel will either be less and less bothered by Metatron's demands, or on the contrary grow more and more uncomfortable with them. At some point, he might clue in to the fact that siding with Metatron isn't the best way to redeem himself in anyone's eyes.

This episode also reminded of East of Eden, and the Cain/Abel, Caleb/Aron situation. In some ways, Dean reminds me of Caleb. Despite being the loyal and dutiful son, Dean has expressed jealousy towards Sam and always wanted his father's approval, without ever feeling like he got it. Dean has also struggled to live up to his own impossibly high standards (always save everyone, first and foremost Sam). His failure to do so has lead Dean to very dark places in the past. Dean's motives are completely different than Caleb's, but the result of his trangressions against his brother are disturbingly similar. We don't know the full extent of the damage caused by Gadreel's presence in Sam, but we know it is severe. It's ironic that Dean caused this by wanting to be his brother's keeper. Timshel, Dean.
Cat
# Cat 2013-12-08 16:00
Thank you for your insightful review! I really appreciated your analysis of the serpent/Garden of Eden theme.

About Gadreel, I'm not quite sure if he has definitely chosen Metatron, precisely because he wants to redeem himself. He did seem reluctant to "prove his fidelity" by killing someone. He ended up killing Kevin, but that was only Metatron's first order. Gadreel will either be less and less bothered by Metatron's demands, or on the contrary grow more and more uncomfortable with them. At some point, he might clue in to the fact that siding with Metatron isn't the best way to redeem himself in anyone's eyes.

This episode also reminded of East of Eden, and the Cain/Abel, Caleb/Aron situation. In some ways, Dean reminds me of Caleb. Despite being the loyal and dutiful son, Dean has expressed jealousy towards Sam and always wanted his father's approval, without ever feeling like he got it. Dean has also struggled to live up to his own impossibly high standards (always save everyone, first and foremost Sam). His failure to do so has lead Dean to very dark places in the past. Dean's motives are completely different than Caleb's, but the result of his trangressions against his brother are disturbingly similar. We don't know the full extent of the damage caused by Gadreel's presence in Sam, but we know it is severe. It's ironic that Dean caused this by wanting to be his brother's keeper. Timshel, Dean.
eilf
# eilf 2013-12-08 16:05
Quoting Far Away Eyes:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.

So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,
10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.
eilf
# eilf 2013-12-08 16:05
Quote:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.
So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,
10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 16:39
Quoting Cat:
Thank you for your insightful review! I really appreciated your analysis of the serpent/Garden of Eden theme.

About Gadreel, I'm not quite sure if he has definitely chosen Metatron, precisely because he wants to redeem himself. He did seem reluctant to "prove his fidelity" by killing someone. He ended up killing Kevin, but that was only Metatron's first order. Gadreel will either be less and less bothered by Metatron's demands, or on the contrary grow more and more uncomfortable with them. At some point, he might clue in to the fact that siding with Metatron isn't the best way to redeem himself in anyone's eyes.

This episode also reminded of East of Eden, and the Cain/Abel, Caleb/Aron situation. In some ways, Dean reminds me of Caleb. Despite being the loyal and dutiful son, Dean has expressed jealousy towards Sam and always wanted his father's approval, without ever feeling like he got it. Dean has also struggled to live up to his own impossibly high standards (always save everyone, first and foremost Sam). His failure to do so has lead Dean to very dark places in the past. Dean's motives are completely different than Caleb's, but the result of his trangressions against his brother are disturbingly similar. We don't know the full extent of the damage caused by Gadreel's presence in Sam, but we know it is severe. It's ironic that Dean caused this by wanting to be his brother's keeper. Timshel, Dean.



Thanks for the comment!

I think you bring up some key points about Gadreel. He was reluctant to kill Kevin or anyone, yes. I think that he was so eager to join up until that moment because he thought it was a chance to fix what he'd done terribly wrong back then. Metatron knew to pull that string, certainly.

I wonder if he will question that decision to follow through with that first kill or back track towards Dean or Castiel or another angel or human that is working against Metatron. I have no doubt that Metatron has the upperhand in this equation. He's the one with the super secret plan---and if Gadreel hitches his star completely to him, he'll get burned.

As for Dean, I think he's asking for severe punishment for what he's done with inviting an angel into his brother. The way he begs Sam to beat him later after they've expelled the angel keys to me that he's looking to punish himself and have others do that to him for this one. Does that absolve him for what has happened? No. I do think we'll see him have to face this and some of his other mistakes , too.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 16:39
Quote:
Thank you for your insightful review! I really appreciated your analysis of the serpent/Garden of Eden theme.

About Gadreel, I'm not quite sure if he has definitely chosen Metatron, precisely because he wants to redeem himself. He did seem reluctant to "prove his fidelity" by killing someone. He ended up killing Kevin, but that was only Metatron's first order. Gadreel will either be less and less bothered by Metatron's demands, or on the contrary grow more and more uncomfortable with them. At some point, he might clue in to the fact that siding with Metatron isn't the best way to redeem himself in anyone's eyes.

This episode also reminded of East of Eden, and the Cain/Abel, Caleb/Aron situation. In some ways, Dean reminds me of Caleb. Despite being the loyal and dutiful son, Dean has expressed jealousy towards Sam and always wanted his father's approval, without ever feeling like he got it. Dean has also struggled to live up to his own impossibly high standards (always save everyone, first and foremost Sam). His failure to do so has lead Dean to very dark places in the past. Dean's motives are completely different than Caleb's, but the result of his trangressions against his brother are disturbingly similar. We don't know the full extent of the damage caused by Gadreel's presence in Sam, but we know it is severe. It's ironic that Dean caused this by wanting to be his brother's keeper. Timshel, Dean.
Thanks for the comment!

I think you bring up some key points about Gadreel. He was reluctant to kill Kevin or anyone, yes. I think that he was so eager to join up until that moment because he thought it was a chance to fix what he'd done terribly wrong back then. Metatron knew to pull that string, certainly.

I wonder if he will question that decision to follow through with that first kill or back track towards Dean or Castiel or another angel or human that is working against Metatron. I have no doubt that Metatron has the upperhand in this equation. He's the one with the super secret plan---and if Gadreel hitches his star completely to him, he'll get burned.

As for Dean, I think he's asking for severe punishment for what he's done with inviting an angel into his brother. The way he begs Sam to beat him later after they've expelled the angel keys to me that he's looking to punish himself and have others do that to him for this one. Does that absolve him for what has happened? No. I do think we'll see him have to face this and some of his other mistakes , too.

Thanks again.
milly
# milly 2013-12-08 16:40
Hi Far Away Eye, I loved your review. It was so poetic and the connection about the Garden was amazing. I found the connection very interesting and truthful for each character and probably this the way for the rest of the season. I'm very very concerned about the development of the story of Sam.

This guy has no peace and I understand why there are rumors about his being suicidal. How can we blame him once he found out the truth!!

I love this character and the complexity about of his destiny. I hope that Sam find again the streight to fight on and believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel but is absolutely necessary to believe in himself and in his brother again (well I bet not in this moment) but as we know they stay togheter to go on.

Anyway I know there is the episode 11 is going to talk about Cain. Is it a coincidence? :-*

Thanks again. Milly
milly
# milly 2013-12-08 16:40
Hi Far Away Eye, I loved your review. It was so poetic and the connection about the Garden was amazing. I found the connection very interesting and truthful for each character and probably this the way for the rest of the season. I'm very very concerned about the development of the story of Sam.

This guy has no peace and I understand why there are rumors about his being suicidal. How can we blame him once he found out the truth!!

I love this character and the complexity about of his destiny. I hope that Sam find again the streight to fight on and believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel but is absolutely necessary to believe in himself and in his brother again (well I bet not in this moment) but as we know they stay togheter to go on.

Anyway I know there is the episode 11 is going to talk about Cain. Is it a coincidence? :-*

Thanks again. Milly
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 16:42
Quoting eilf:
Quoting Far Away Eyes:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.

So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,


10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.
Oh, I don't think Gadreel is outfoxing Metatron. I simply see him using the Scribe to get what he wants. What he doesn't know is in the end Metatron will get what HE wants and Gadreel will probably suffer the consequences much the way Castiel did. Metatron's the more cunning and cruel when it comes to subversive plots like this.

As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, it's interesting that the Garden only existed for ten days. That's not a lot of time at all. I'll be curious to see if we see learn what Gadreel did or didn't do during that time.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 16:42
Quote:
Quote:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.
So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,
10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.
Oh, I don't think Gadreel is outfoxing Metatron. I simply see him using the Scribe to get what he wants. What he doesn't know is in the end Metatron will get what HE wants and Gadreel will probably suffer the consequences much the way Castiel did. Metatron's the more cunning and cruel when it comes to subversive plots like this.

As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, it's interesting that the Garden only existed for ten days. That's not a lot of time at all. I'll be curious to see if we see learn what Gadreel did or didn't do during that time.

Thanks again.
Mick
# Mick 2013-12-08 17:19
Quoting Far Away Eyes:

I've heard the boys talk about a potential season 10 and maybe more in passing, but I had no idea they were saying the current mythology bleeds into season 10. Judging by the ratings wins we've had and both Js being signed on for it, I'm not concerned about us getting one. I'm sure we'll get it, but to hear they want MORE after is awesome. I, too, am pleased by how the writers have kept us on the edge and explored these various angelic mythologies to tell the story so well. It's been a fascinating season 9.


That's pretty much why season 8 ended the way it did, the show got an early renewal, so they were able to leave things dangling because they new they were coming back.Quoting Far Away Eyes:
Quoting eilf:
Quoting Far Away Eyes:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.

So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,


10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.


Oh, I don't think Gadreel is outfoxing Metatron. I simply see him using the Scribe to get what he wants. What he doesn't know is in the end Metatron will get what HE wants and Gadreel will probably suffer the consequences much the way Castiel did. Metatron's the more cunning and cruel when it comes to subversive plots like this.

As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, it's interesting that the Garden only existed for ten days. That's not a lot of time at all. I'll be curious to see if we see learn what Gadreel did or didn't do during that time.

Thanks again.
The way the show talked about it the few times, human evolution has pretty much been present going by the scientific method. Castiel seeing the first fish walk on land, and telling Dean the angels weren't sure which type of humanity would survive neanderthal or homo sapiens sapiens.
Mick
# Mick 2013-12-08 17:19
Quote:

I've heard the boys talk about a potential season 10 and maybe more in passing, but I had no idea they were saying the current mythology bleeds into season 10. Judging by the ratings wins we've had and both Js being signed on for it, I'm not concerned about us getting one. I'm sure we'll get it, but to hear they want MORE after is awesome. I, too, am pleased by how the writers have kept us on the edge and explored these various angelic mythologies to tell the story so well. It's been a fascinating season 9.
That's pretty much why season 8 ended the way it did, the show got an early renewal, so they were able to leave things dangling because they new they were coming back.Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.
So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,
10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.
Oh, I don't think Gadreel is outfoxing Metatron. I simply see him using the Scribe to get what he wants. What he doesn't know is in the end Metatron will get what HE wants and Gadreel will probably suffer the consequences much the way Castiel did. Metatron's the more cunning and cruel when it comes to subversive plots like this.

As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, it's interesting that the Garden only existed for ten days. That's not a lot of time at all. I'll be curious to see if we see learn what Gadreel did or didn't do during that time.

Thanks again.
The way the show talked about it the few times, human evolution has pretty much been present going by the scientific method. Castiel seeing the first fish walk on land, and telling Dean the angels weren't sure which type of humanity would survive neanderthal or homo sapiens sapiens.
Chelsie
# Chelsie 2013-12-08 17:44
I thought Jensen was simply brilliant in this episode. He is my emotional lynchpin to the show.

I love what Jensen said at the Burbank con, how these types of scenes are difficult because your body doesn't know you're acting, so it takes a toll, but when the director said we got it, Jensen wasn't satisfied and they did it again. I love his passion for his craft, the show and especially the iconic character of Dean Winchester.
Chelsie
# Chelsie 2013-12-08 17:44
I thought Jensen was simply brilliant in this episode. He is my emotional lynchpin to the show.

I love what Jensen said at the Burbank con, how these types of scenes are difficult because your body doesn't know you're acting, so it takes a toll, but when the director said we got it, Jensen wasn't satisfied and they did it again. I love his passion for his craft, the show and especially the iconic character of Dean Winchester.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-12-08 18:01
Quoting Far Away Eyes:
Quoting cheryl42:
One of the stories of Gadreel is that he is the father of Cain. What if the evil or the temptation that was let into the garden was that Gadreel fell in love with Eve and that was the forbidden fruit. Instead of Gadreel being cast into hell as Lucifer has been the punishment was angel prison for seducing/corrupting Gods creation. I have a feeling that Gadreel is playing Metatron to his own end. He seemed truly shocked that no angels were in heaven and he seemed truly sorry about Kevin but "ultimately it was for the best." And why spare Dean? He told Kevin that Dean would be fine. There is so much to the story I just hope that tptb have enough season left to do all the sorylines justice.


Thanks for the comment.

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point. Metatron has leverage over Gadreel concerning his identity with the other angels. I'll be curious to see just what Gadreel might use against him---if he gets the chance pending the resumption of the season.

I'm very hopeful for the remainder of the season. There's a lot of episodes left and I'm excited to see just where they take it as we make our way towards May.

Thanks again!

I guess I was thinking back to the second episode after Gadreel saved Sam from the demons. When Dean came in to the room he told Gad that the demons still being on earth was on him because he stopped Sam from completing the trials (letting the serpent in). Gadreel told Dean that what he did he did out of love. Looking back it may have been he said that from personal experience. I don't know Gadreel went from "that is not who I am" and being horrified that no angels were left in heaven to being Metatrons stooge pretty easy. I think he has his own agenda and I don't think it is necessarily all evil. Although killing Kevin is not going to be forgiven no matter what his motives.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-12-08 18:01
Quote:
Quote:
One of the stories of Gadreel is that he is the father of Cain. What if the evil or the temptation that was let into the garden was that Gadreel fell in love with Eve and that was the forbidden fruit. Instead of Gadreel being cast into hell as Lucifer has been the punishment was angel prison for seducing/corrupting Gods creation. I have a feeling that Gadreel is playing Metatron to his own end. He seemed truly shocked that no angels were in heaven and he seemed truly sorry about Kevin but "ultimately it was for the best." And why spare Dean? He told Kevin that Dean would be fine. There is so much to the story I just hope that tptb have enough season left to do all the sorylines justice.
Thanks for the comment.

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point. Metatron has leverage over Gadreel concerning his identity with the other angels. I'll be curious to see just what Gadreel might use against him---if he gets the chance pending the resumption of the season.

I'm very hopeful for the remainder of the season. There's a lot of episodes left and I'm excited to see just where they take it as we make our way towards May.

Thanks again!
I guess I was thinking back to the second episode after Gadreel saved Sam from the demons. When Dean came in to the room he told Gad that the demons still being on earth was on him because he stopped Sam from completing the trials (letting the serpent in). Gadreel told Dean that what he did he did out of love. Looking back it may have been he said that from personal experience. I don't know Gadreel went from "that is not who I am" and being horrified that no angels were left in heaven to being Metatrons stooge pretty easy. I think he has his own agenda and I don't think it is necessarily all evil. Although killing Kevin is not going to be forgiven no matter what his motives.
eilf
# eilf 2013-12-08 18:10
Quoting Mick:
Quoting Far Away Eyes:

I've heard the boys talk about a potential season 10 and maybe more in passing, but I had no idea they were saying the current mythology bleeds into season 10. Judging by the ratings wins we've had and both Js being signed on for it, I'm not concerned about us getting one. I'm sure we'll get it, but to hear they want MORE after is awesome. I, too, am pleased by how the writers have kept us on the edge and explored these various angelic mythologies to tell the story so well. It's been a fascinating season 9.


That's pretty much why season 8 ended the way it did, the show got an early renewal, so they were able to leave things dangling because they new they were coming back.Quoting Far Away Eyes:
Quoting eilf:
Quoting Far Away Eyes:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.

So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,


10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.


Oh, I don't think Gadreel is outfoxing Metatron. I simply see him using the Scribe to get what he wants. What he doesn't know is in the end Metatron will get what HE wants and Gadreel will probably suffer the consequences much the way Castiel did. Metatron's the more cunning and cruel when it comes to subversive plots like this.

As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, it's interesting that the Garden only existed for ten days. That's not a lot of time at all. I'll be curious to see if we see learn what Gadreel did or didn't do during that time.

Thanks again.


The way the show talked about it the few times, human evolution has pretty much been present going by the scientific method. Castiel seeing the first fish walk on land, and telling Dean the angels weren't sure which type of humanity would survive neanderthal or homo sapiens sapiens.
I have always just been entertained by how specific Archbishop Ussher was about it. There is a more refined version that says God started creating at 9am on the 23rd.
I guess we are talking divine time rather than scientific time but even at that it didn't take much longer than it took God to create the world for the angel (and the people) to cause mayhem in the garden. Considering angels aren't supposed to have free will they certainly get in a lot of trouble for the 'decisions' they make (see also, Luicfer).
eilf
# eilf 2013-12-08 18:10
Quote:
Quote:

I've heard the boys talk about a potential season 10 and maybe more in passing, but I had no idea they were saying the current mythology bleeds into season 10. Judging by the ratings wins we've had and both Js being signed on for it, I'm not concerned about us getting one. I'm sure we'll get it, but to hear they want MORE after is awesome. I, too, am pleased by how the writers have kept us on the edge and explored these various angelic mythologies to tell the story so well. It's been a fascinating season 9.
That's pretty much why season 8 ended the way it did, the show got an early renewal, so they were able to leave things dangling because they new they were coming back.Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.
So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,
10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.
Oh, I don't think Gadreel is outfoxing Metatron. I simply see him using the Scribe to get what he wants. What he doesn't know is in the end Metatron will get what HE wants and Gadreel will probably suffer the consequences much the way Castiel did. Metatron's the more cunning and cruel when it comes to subversive plots like this.

As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, it's interesting that the Garden only existed for ten days. That's not a lot of time at all. I'll be curious to see if we see learn what Gadreel did or didn't do during that time.

Thanks again.
The way the show talked about it the few times, human evolution has pretty much been present going by the scientific method. Castiel seeing the first fish walk on land, and telling Dean the angels weren't sure which type of humanity would survive neanderthal or homo sapiens sapiens.
I have always just been entertained by how specific Archbishop Ussher was about it. There is a more refined version that says God started creating at 9am on the 23rd.
I guess we are talking divine time rather than scientific time but even at that it didn't take much longer than it took God to create the world for the angel (and the people) to cause mayhem in the garden. Considering angels aren't supposed to have free will they certainly get in a lot of trouble for the 'decisions' they make (see also, Luicfer).
eilf
# eilf 2013-12-08 18:17
Quoting Chelsie:
I thought Jensen was simply brilliant in this episode.

He was, wasn't he? :-) Especially the difference between the lighthearted aspects of what the character was going through in the early part of the episode contrasted with the bleakness of the last scene and the OPT that he does so well.
And I don't even know that what he was talking about at Burcon was that scene, moving and all as it was, I sort of got the impression he was talking about the beginning of the next episode. He said that he was already emotional at the beginning of the scene, so I think it might be 9.10.
Poor Dean, he has some bad stuff ahead of him, I don't know how he is going to fix it.
eilf
# eilf 2013-12-08 18:17
Quote:
I thought Jensen was simply brilliant in this episode.
He was, wasn't he? :-) Especially the difference between the lighthearted aspects of what the character was going through in the early part of the episode contrasted with the bleakness of the last scene and the OPT that he does so well.
And I don't even know that what he was talking about at Burcon was that scene, moving and all as it was, I sort of got the impression he was talking about the beginning of the next episode. He said that he was already emotional at the beginning of the scene, so I think it might be 9.10.
Poor Dean, he has some bad stuff ahead of him, I don't know how he is going to fix it.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 19:01
Quoting Mick:
Quoting Far Away Eyes:

I've heard the boys talk about a potential season 10 and maybe more in passing, but I had no idea they were saying the current mythology bleeds into season 10. Judging by the ratings wins we've had and both Js being signed on for it, I'm not concerned about us getting one. I'm sure we'll get it, but to hear they want MORE after is awesome. I, too, am pleased by how the writers have kept us on the edge and explored these various angelic mythologies to tell the story so well. It's been a fascinating season 9.


That's pretty much why season 8 ended the way it did, the show got an early renewal, so they were able to leave things dangling because they new they were coming back.Quoting Far Away Eyes:
Quoting eilf:
Quoting Far Away Eyes:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.

So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,


10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.


Oh, I don't think Gadreel is outfoxing Metatron. I simply see him using the Scribe to get what he wants. What he doesn't know is in the end Metatron will get what HE wants and Gadreel will probably suffer the consequences much the way Castiel did. Metatron's the more cunning and cruel when it comes to subversive plots like this.

As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, it's interesting that the Garden only existed for ten days. That's not a lot of time at all. I'll be curious to see if we see learn what Gadreel did or didn't do during that time.

Thanks again.


The way the show talked about it the few times, human evolution has pretty much been present going by the scientific method. Castiel seeing the first fish walk on land, and telling Dean the angels weren't sure which type of humanity would survive neanderthal or homo sapiens sapiens.
I agree. The evolutionary scheme was well set out in "The Man Who Would Be King." Castiel made it a point to talk about the fish and it being special someday---meani ng becoming mankind down the road.

As for the literal translation timeline, I don't think that's necessarily how the show is interpreting Gadreel and the Garden of Eden. I do, however, find it fascinating that anyone would try to place an exact time stamp on something that was done either in Biblical time or scientific time the way this Bishop has. Do I think Gadreel screwed up in ten days? No.

I certainly see this being a strange blend of Biblical and Evolutionary time, and Supernatural is wisely using both to its advantage for its story.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 19:01
Quote:
Quote:

I've heard the boys talk about a potential season 10 and maybe more in passing, but I had no idea they were saying the current mythology bleeds into season 10. Judging by the ratings wins we've had and both Js being signed on for it, I'm not concerned about us getting one. I'm sure we'll get it, but to hear they want MORE after is awesome. I, too, am pleased by how the writers have kept us on the edge and explored these various angelic mythologies to tell the story so well. It's been a fascinating season 9.
That's pretty much why season 8 ended the way it did, the show got an early renewal, so they were able to leave things dangling because they new they were coming back.Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

I'm not sure that they'll explore too deeply into Gadreel's connection to Eve and Cain. It's an interesting thought, though. I'm guessing that Gadreel only let in the serpent that led to his punishment, however.

I have to agree with you, though, that Gadreel is using Metatron almost as much as Metatron is using Gadreel. They're both looking to accomplish goals, and I won't be surprised if one or the other or both tries to stab the other in the back at some point.
So I don't really think Gadreel is all that smart. I think he is being used by Metatron.

He is so cross at people bringing up the garden thing and so innocently delighted when Metatron says he will have him as his second in command (which he clearly has no intention of following through on)! Honestly Jared has him grow another 2 inches in height - which begins to seem like something JP can actually do - get taller on demand :D

The best evidence of Gadreel not being one of the great forward thinkers of all times is the length of time he was in charge of the Garden!

According to Archbishop Ussher the world was created in 4004 BC on the 23 of October. So, 7 days brings us to 30th October ... And then the following:

Quote:
Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC,
10 days! Dude was in charge TEN days! You had one little job to do...
Well he has had 6,017 years (and one month) to think about it so maybe he has gotten better at forward planning.
Oh, I don't think Gadreel is outfoxing Metatron. I simply see him using the Scribe to get what he wants. What he doesn't know is in the end Metatron will get what HE wants and Gadreel will probably suffer the consequences much the way Castiel did. Metatron's the more cunning and cruel when it comes to subversive plots like this.

As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, it's interesting that the Garden only existed for ten days. That's not a lot of time at all. I'll be curious to see if we see learn what Gadreel did or didn't do during that time.

Thanks again.
The way the show talked about it the few times, human evolution has pretty much been present going by the scientific method. Castiel seeing the first fish walk on land, and telling Dean the angels weren't sure which type of humanity would survive neanderthal or homo sapiens sapiens.
I agree. The evolutionary scheme was well set out in "The Man Who Would Be King." Castiel made it a point to talk about the fish and it being special someday---meani ng becoming mankind down the road.

As for the literal translation timeline, I don't think that's necessarily how the show is interpreting Gadreel and the Garden of Eden. I do, however, find it fascinating that anyone would try to place an exact time stamp on something that was done either in Biblical time or scientific time the way this Bishop has. Do I think Gadreel screwed up in ten days? No.

I certainly see this being a strange blend of Biblical and Evolutionary time, and Supernatural is wisely using both to its advantage for its story.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 19:04
Quoting Chelsie:
I thought Jensen was simply brilliant in this episode. He is my emotional lynchpin to the show.

I love what Jensen said at the Burbank con, how these types of scenes are difficult because your body doesn't know you're acting, so it takes a toll, but when the director said we got it, Jensen wasn't satisfied and they did it again. I love his passion for his craft, the show and especially the iconic character of Dean Winchester.


Thanks for the great comment.

I love how Jensen performed here, too. I could tell that Dean was walking on a tight rope for much of the episode emotionally just by how he carried himself. It was a powerful performance. And that moment at the end just made my heart hurt.

Thank you for sharing that tidbit about Jensen and that scene at the end! I hadn't heard that story. I love how committed he and Jared and the cast/crew is to this show. Thanks for adding that layer for me.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 19:04
Quote:
I thought Jensen was simply brilliant in this episode. He is my emotional lynchpin to the show.

I love what Jensen said at the Burbank con, how these types of scenes are difficult because your body doesn't know you're acting, so it takes a toll, but when the director said we got it, Jensen wasn't satisfied and they did it again. I love his passion for his craft, the show and especially the iconic character of Dean Winchester.
Thanks for the great comment.

I love how Jensen performed here, too. I could tell that Dean was walking on a tight rope for much of the episode emotionally just by how he carried himself. It was a powerful performance. And that moment at the end just made my heart hurt.

Thank you for sharing that tidbit about Jensen and that scene at the end! I hadn't heard that story. I love how committed he and Jared and the cast/crew is to this show. Thanks for adding that layer for me.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 19:08
Quoting cheryl42:

I guess I was thinking back to the second episode after Gadreel saved Sam from the demons. When Dean came in to the room he told Gad that the demons still being on earth was on him because he stopped Sam from completing the trials (letting the serpent in). Gadreel told Dean that what he did he did out of love. Looking back it may have been he said that from personal experience. I don't know Gadreel went from "that is not who I am" and being horrified that no angels were left in heaven to being Metatrons stooge pretty easy. I think he has his own agenda and I don't think it is necessarily all evil. Although killing Kevin is not going to be forgiven no matter what his motives.


That is an interesting point, yes. Gadreel did tell Dean he did this out of love---meaning letting Gadreel in. I am not entirely sure, beyond the redemption he's craving, what Gadreel's end game exactly is.

Some pointed out that Gadreel flipped from being hesitant to killing Kevin the moment he learned Dean was going to expel him or didn't bother to ask who/what he was about, and I can see that being partly why he went and killed Kevin. It's not the sole reason, but I think it's a part.

I am hoping his plans aren't all evil, but we'll just have to wait and see how this develops. So far I'm pleased with the conflicts and deep emotions it's stirred up.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 19:08
Quote:

I guess I was thinking back to the second episode after Gadreel saved Sam from the demons. When Dean came in to the room he told Gad that the demons still being on earth was on him because he stopped Sam from completing the trials (letting the serpent in). Gadreel told Dean that what he did he did out of love. Looking back it may have been he said that from personal experience. I don't know Gadreel went from "that is not who I am" and being horrified that no angels were left in heaven to being Metatrons stooge pretty easy. I think he has his own agenda and I don't think it is necessarily all evil. Although killing Kevin is not going to be forgiven no matter what his motives.
That is an interesting point, yes. Gadreel did tell Dean he did this out of love---meaning letting Gadreel in. I am not entirely sure, beyond the redemption he's craving, what Gadreel's end game exactly is.

Some pointed out that Gadreel flipped from being hesitant to killing Kevin the moment he learned Dean was going to expel him or didn't bother to ask who/what he was about, and I can see that being partly why he went and killed Kevin. It's not the sole reason, but I think it's a part.

I am hoping his plans aren't all evil, but we'll just have to wait and see how this develops. So far I'm pleased with the conflicts and deep emotions it's stirred up.
Vashti
# Vashti 2013-12-08 19:49
Wonderful, insightful review. I was reminded of the scene in Season 7 where Castiel is standing in his "favourite" heaven (the peaceful, beautiful garden of an autistic man on a Thurs. afternoon) defiled with the bodies of the angels he has killed.
Vashti
# Vashti 2013-12-08 19:49
Wonderful, insightful review. I was reminded of the scene in Season 7 where Castiel is standing in his "favourite" heaven (the peaceful, beautiful garden of an autistic man on a Thurs. afternoon) defiled with the bodies of the angels he has killed.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-12-08 20:16
Thanks for your review. Letting the serpent in could be the theme for this season.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-12-08 20:16
Thanks for your review. Letting the serpent in could be the theme for this season.
Abby S
# Abby S 2013-12-08 21:01
This was an awesome review!
I love the whole garden comparison- it's really what they are doing this season.

But, I had a clear and vivid flashback to the episode in S5 "The End" and the garden scene with Sam/lucifer and Dean. And to my horror I remembered that it was set in 2014 (that was the future 5 years ago) and "Sam" was possessed by an angel. Granted it was a Lucifer, but he was still an angel. And he was kicked out of heaven and locked up in hell ---umm like Gadreel who was locked up in Heavenl!! and hello, isn't Lucifer the one who is considered to have been the snake in the GARDEN that tempted Adam and Even???
Ok, last of all, anyone remember what "Sam?Lucifer said to PastDean after killing FutureDean??
"whatever you do, you will always end up here. whatever choices you make whatever details you change we will always end up....here. See you in five years Dean!"


Gah!
Abby S
# Abby S 2013-12-08 21:01
This was an awesome review!
I love the whole garden comparison- it's really what they are doing this season.

But, I had a clear and vivid flashback to the episode in S5 "The End" and the garden scene with Sam/lucifer and Dean. And to my horror I remembered that it was set in 2014 (that was the future 5 years ago) and "Sam" was possessed by an angel. Granted it was a Lucifer, but he was still an angel. And he was kicked out of heaven and locked up in hell ---umm like Gadreel who was locked up in Heavenl!! and hello, isn't Lucifer the one who is considered to have been the snake in the GARDEN that tempted Adam and Even???
Ok, last of all, anyone remember what "Sam?Lucifer said to PastDean after killing FutureDean??
"whatever you do, you will always end up here. whatever choices you make whatever details you change we will always end up....here. See you in five years Dean!"


Gah!
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-12-08 21:19
Quote:
I think he has his own agenda and I don't think it is necessarily all evil. Although killing Kevin is not going to be forgiven no matter what his motives.
I don't know. We saw Meg kill Pastor Jim and kidnap John. We saw her possess Sam and use him to kill Steve Waddel. We saw her kill Jo and Ellen. And she never repented for any of that. And then she decided to ally with the boys against Crowley (who actually helped them STOP Lucifer and worked if not with them at least against Dick Roman), had a fling of sorts with Cas and suddenly all was forgiven. So if Meg can come back from all that I'm sure Gadreel can be forgiven.

As a note, Meg was a great long term villain, but I really never forgave her for any of that, while I think Crowley was and is far more ambiguous in his motives and evil.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-12-08 21:19
Quote:
I think he has his own agenda and I don't think it is necessarily all evil. Although killing Kevin is not going to be forgiven no matter what his motives.
I don't know. We saw Meg kill Pastor Jim and kidnap John. We saw her possess Sam and use him to kill Steve Waddel. We saw her kill Jo and Ellen. And she never repented for any of that. And then she decided to ally with the boys against Crowley (who actually helped them STOP Lucifer and worked if not with them at least against Dick Roman), had a fling of sorts with Cas and suddenly all was forgiven. So if Meg can come back from all that I'm sure Gadreel can be forgiven.

As a note, Meg was a great long term villain, but I really never forgave her for any of that, while I think Crowley was and is far more ambiguous in his motives and evil.
Mick
# Mick 2013-12-08 21:39
Quoting cheryl42:
Thanks for your review. Letting the serpent in could be the theme for this season.


The theme for the season is consequences. The consequences of Castiel putting his trust in Metatron, the consequences of Sam and Dean not closing Hell, the consequences of introducing humanity to Crowley, and finally the consequences of Dean not being able to let Sam go.

And of course there's the line "I did what I had to" from this episode, which is probably the theme for the next half.
Mick
# Mick 2013-12-08 21:39
Quote:
Thanks for your review. Letting the serpent in could be the theme for this season.
The theme for the season is consequences. The consequences of Castiel putting his trust in Metatron, the consequences of Sam and Dean not closing Hell, the consequences of introducing humanity to Crowley, and finally the consequences of Dean not being able to let Sam go.

And of course there's the line "I did what I had to" from this episode, which is probably the theme for the next half.
Mick
# Mick 2013-12-08 21:43
Quoting percysowner:
Quote:
I think he has his own agenda and I don't think it is necessarily all evil. Although killing Kevin is not going to be forgiven no matter what his motives.


I don't know. We saw Meg kill Pastor Jim and kidnap John. We saw her possess Sam and use him to kill Steve Waddel. We saw her kill Jo and Ellen. And she never repented for any of that. And then she decided to ally with the boys against Crowley (who actually helped them STOP Lucifer and worked if not with them at least against Dick Roman), had a fling of sorts with Cas and suddenly all was forgiven. So if Meg can come back from all that I'm sure Gadreel can be forgiven.

As a note, Meg was a great long term villain, but I really never forgave her for any of that, while I think Crowley was and is far more ambiguous in his motives and evil.
I don't think Meg was forgiven, it seemed more to me to be enemy of my enemy deal. Meg needed to die, and the show decided to give her redemption, however little, through her death.
Mick
# Mick 2013-12-08 21:43
Quote:
Quote:
I think he has his own agenda and I don't think it is necessarily all evil. Although killing Kevin is not going to be forgiven no matter what his motives.
I don't know. We saw Meg kill Pastor Jim and kidnap John. We saw her possess Sam and use him to kill Steve Waddel. We saw her kill Jo and Ellen. And she never repented for any of that. And then she decided to ally with the boys against Crowley (who actually helped them STOP Lucifer and worked if not with them at least against Dick Roman), had a fling of sorts with Cas and suddenly all was forgiven. So if Meg can come back from all that I'm sure Gadreel can be forgiven.

As a note, Meg was a great long term villain, but I really never forgave her for any of that, while I think Crowley was and is far more ambiguous in his motives and evil.
I don't think Meg was forgiven, it seemed more to me to be enemy of my enemy deal. Meg needed to die, and the show decided to give her redemption, however little, through her death.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 22:15
Quoting Vashti:
Wonderful, insightful review. I was reminded of the scene in Season 7 where Castiel is standing in his "favourite" heaven (the peaceful, beautiful garden of an autistic man on a Thurs. afternoon) defiled with the bodies of the angels he has killed.


Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you enjoyed this look.

Yes. That "heaven" came to mind for me, too. It was tranquil--outsi de those bodies of course.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 22:15
Quote:
Wonderful, insightful review. I was reminded of the scene in Season 7 where Castiel is standing in his "favourite" heaven (the peaceful, beautiful garden of an autistic man on a Thurs. afternoon) defiled with the bodies of the angels he has killed.
Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you enjoyed this look.

Yes. That "heaven" came to mind for me, too. It was tranquil--outsi de those bodies of course.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 22:17
Quoting cheryl42:
Thanks for your review. Letting the serpent in could be the theme for this season.


Thanks for the comment.

I don't know that the serpent is the theme as much as it is the delivery system they're using to tell us about action and consequence. I think it's a fascinating way to do that, and it comes with so many different layers I think we've yet to totally investigate.

Thanks again!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 22:17
Quote:
Thanks for your review. Letting the serpent in could be the theme for this season.
Thanks for the comment.

I don't know that the serpent is the theme as much as it is the delivery system they're using to tell us about action and consequence. I think it's a fascinating way to do that, and it comes with so many different layers I think we've yet to totally investigate.

Thanks again!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 22:19
Quoting Abby S:
This was an awesome review!
I love the whole garden comparison- it's really what they are doing this season.

But, I had a clear and vivid flashback to the episode in S5 "The End" and the garden scene with Sam/lucifer and Dean. And to my horror I remembered that it was set in 2014 (that was the future 5 years ago) and "Sam" was possessed by an angel. Granted it was a Lucifer, but he was still an angel. And he was kicked out of heaven and locked up in hell ---umm like Gadreel who was locked up in Heavenl!! and hello, isn't Lucifer the one who is considered to have been the snake in the GARDEN that tempted Adam and Even???
Ok, last of all, anyone remember what "Sam?Lucifer said to PastDean after killing FutureDean??
"whatever you do, you will always end up here. whatever choices you make whatever details you change we will always end up....here. See you in five years Dean!"


Gah!


Thanks for the comment.

I don't know if it's an intentional 2014 correlation, but it is interesting that we've seen this story line come to fruition around that timeline we saw set in the alternate reality of "The End." And considering that Gadreel and Lucifer each are considered angels to tempt Adam and Eve, it becomes more interesting.

I'll be curious to see if this comes up or not when they resume the season---after all Dean experienced that alternate reality while Sam did not.

Thanks again!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-08 22:19
Quote:
This was an awesome review!
I love the whole garden comparison- it's really what they are doing this season.

But, I had a clear and vivid flashback to the episode in S5 "The End" and the garden scene with Sam/lucifer and Dean. And to my horror I remembered that it was set in 2014 (that was the future 5 years ago) and "Sam" was possessed by an angel. Granted it was a Lucifer, but he was still an angel. And he was kicked out of heaven and locked up in hell ---umm like Gadreel who was locked up in Heavenl!! and hello, isn't Lucifer the one who is considered to have been the snake in the GARDEN that tempted Adam and Even???
Ok, last of all, anyone remember what "Sam?Lucifer said to PastDean after killing FutureDean??
"whatever you do, you will always end up here. whatever choices you make whatever details you change we will always end up....here. See you in five years Dean!"


Gah!
Thanks for the comment.

I don't know if it's an intentional 2014 correlation, but it is interesting that we've seen this story line come to fruition around that timeline we saw set in the alternate reality of "The End." And considering that Gadreel and Lucifer each are considered angels to tempt Adam and Eve, it becomes more interesting.

I'll be curious to see if this comes up or not when they resume the season---after all Dean experienced that alternate reality while Sam did not.

Thanks again!
Mick
# Mick 2013-12-09 01:07
Quoting Far Away Eyes:
Quoting Abby S:
This was an awesome review!
I love the whole garden comparison- it's really what they are doing this season.

But, I had a clear and vivid flashback to the episode in S5 "The End" and the garden scene with Sam/lucifer and Dean. And to my horror I remembered that it was set in 2014 (that was the future 5 years ago) and "Sam" was possessed by an angel. Granted it was a Lucifer, but he was still an angel. And he was kicked out of heaven and locked up in hell ---umm like Gadreel who was locked up in Heavenl!! and hello, isn't Lucifer the one who is considered to have been the snake in the GARDEN that tempted Adam and Even???
Ok, last of all, anyone remember what "Sam?Lucifer said to PastDean after killing FutureDean??
"whatever you do, you will always end up here. whatever choices you make whatever details you change we will always end up....here. See you in five years Dean!"


Gah!


Thanks for the comment.

I don't know if it's an intentional 2014 correlation, but it is interesting that we've seen this story line come to fruition around that timeline we saw set in the alternate reality of "The End." And considering that Gadreel and Lucifer each are considered angels to tempt Adam and Eve, it becomes more interesting.

I'll be curious to see if this comes up or not when they resume the season---after all Dean experienced that alternate reality while Sam did not.

Thanks again!


Pretty sure the season is only spanning 2013, when Charlie showed up at the Bunker the date was June 4, 2013. I'd say season is 2014, so maybe something will happen.
Mick
# Mick 2013-12-09 01:07
Quote:
Quote:
This was an awesome review!
I love the whole garden comparison- it's really what they are doing this season.

But, I had a clear and vivid flashback to the episode in S5 "The End" and the garden scene with Sam/lucifer and Dean. And to my horror I remembered that it was set in 2014 (that was the future 5 years ago) and "Sam" was possessed by an angel. Granted it was a Lucifer, but he was still an angel. And he was kicked out of heaven and locked up in hell ---umm like Gadreel who was locked up in Heavenl!! and hello, isn't Lucifer the one who is considered to have been the snake in the GARDEN that tempted Adam and Even???
Ok, last of all, anyone remember what "Sam?Lucifer said to PastDean after killing FutureDean??
"whatever you do, you will always end up here. whatever choices you make whatever details you change we will always end up....here. See you in five years Dean!"


Gah!
Thanks for the comment.

I don't know if it's an intentional 2014 correlation, but it is interesting that we've seen this story line come to fruition around that timeline we saw set in the alternate reality of "The End." And considering that Gadreel and Lucifer each are considered angels to tempt Adam and Eve, it becomes more interesting.

I'll be curious to see if this comes up or not when they resume the season---after all Dean experienced that alternate reality while Sam did not.

Thanks again!
Pretty sure the season is only spanning 2013, when Charlie showed up at the Bunker the date was June 4, 2013. I'd say season is 2014, so maybe something will happen.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-12-09 10:32
Thanks FarAwayEyes, another great review under your belt! :-) I loved your comparisons of the serpents and the Garden, that was some in depth research there.

It's interesting that Gadreel is very much like Castiel in that he's so trusting of Metatron's plan to rebuild Heaven. He is very eager to get his reputation as "God's most trusted" back. Methinks some of these angels are too naive for their own good! I guess he has the excuse of being locked up in jail for so long. The way Metatron convinced him to kill Kevin was so evil. He really believes he did what he had to, but no, he did what Metatron wanted him to. Metatron can certainly give Lucifer a run for his money. God needs to come back and do a really good house cleaning of these angels and their hubris.

The acting was superb, most expecially Jared. The way he transitions between the angel and Sam is just so seemless. But I hope that in the second half of the season we get 100% Sammy. And OMG, what is this going to do to Dean? :cry: I'm trembling with anticipation.

Happy Hellatus.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-12-09 10:32
Thanks FarAwayEyes, another great review under your belt! :-) I loved your comparisons of the serpents and the Garden, that was some in depth research there.

It's interesting that Gadreel is very much like Castiel in that he's so trusting of Metatron's plan to rebuild Heaven. He is very eager to get his reputation as "God's most trusted" back. Methinks some of these angels are too naive for their own good! I guess he has the excuse of being locked up in jail for so long. The way Metatron convinced him to kill Kevin was so evil. He really believes he did what he had to, but no, he did what Metatron wanted him to. Metatron can certainly give Lucifer a run for his money. God needs to come back and do a really good house cleaning of these angels and their hubris.

The acting was superb, most expecially Jared. The way he transitions between the angel and Sam is just so seemless. But I hope that in the second half of the season we get 100% Sammy. And OMG, what is this going to do to Dean? :cry: I'm trembling with anticipation.

Happy Hellatus.
Safa
# Safa 2013-12-09 14:37
Great Review ! I'm not a fan of angel stories and whatever going on in this war between angels , So the episode's main story didn't get my attention !
But what got my eyes was Jared Padalecki and how he once again surprised us ! The transition between Sam , Zeke and Gadreel was Emmy Worthy ! He did a brilliantly amazing job bringing 3 different characters in just one episode !
Safa
# Safa 2013-12-09 14:37
Great Review ! I'm not a fan of angel stories and whatever going on in this war between angels , So the episode's main story didn't get my attention !
But what got my eyes was Jared Padalecki and how he once again surprised us ! The transition between Sam , Zeke and Gadreel was Emmy Worthy ! He did a brilliantly amazing job bringing 3 different characters in just one episode !
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-09 17:28
Quoting Sylvie:
Thanks FarAwayEyes, another great review under your belt! :-) I loved your comparisons of the serpents and the Garden, that was some in depth research there.

It's interesting that Gadreel is very much like Castiel in that he's so trusting of Metatron's plan to rebuild Heaven. He is very eager to get his reputation as "God's most trusted" back. Methinks some of these angels are too naive for their own good! I guess he has the excuse of being locked up in jail for so long. The way Metatron convinced him to kill Kevin was so evil. He really believes he did what he had to, but no, he did what Metatron wanted him to. Metatron can certainly give Lucifer a run for his money. God needs to come back and do a really good house cleaning of these angels and their hubris.

The acting was superb, most expecially Jared. The way he transitions between the angel and Sam is just so seemless. But I hope that in the second half of the season we get 100% Sammy. And OMG, what is this going to do to Dean? :cry: I'm trembling with anticipation.

Happy Hellatus.


Thanks for the comment.

I think that Gadreel and Castiel do have an awful lot in common. They're both trying to redeem mistakes they've made and they seem to find the worst possible ways to do that. I'll be curious to see how Gadreel's working with Metatron will work in the second half. In the end, Metatron is going to use him and anyone else he can to get what he wants. I'm sure it's more than rebuilding Heaven with "funny angels" and becoming God or X. He's up to something much more sinister than that.

The acting this season all around has been great. Jared's been astounding in his ability to show us so many characters in such a seamless manner. I have to sometimes rewind just to catch all the nuances and skill he's put into each character, and after I'm just awed.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-09 17:28
Quote:
Thanks FarAwayEyes, another great review under your belt! :-) I loved your comparisons of the serpents and the Garden, that was some in depth research there.

It's interesting that Gadreel is very much like Castiel in that he's so trusting of Metatron's plan to rebuild Heaven. He is very eager to get his reputation as "God's most trusted" back. Methinks some of these angels are too naive for their own good! I guess he has the excuse of being locked up in jail for so long. The way Metatron convinced him to kill Kevin was so evil. He really believes he did what he had to, but no, he did what Metatron wanted him to. Metatron can certainly give Lucifer a run for his money. God needs to come back and do a really good house cleaning of these angels and their hubris.

The acting was superb, most expecially Jared. The way he transitions between the angel and Sam is just so seemless. But I hope that in the second half of the season we get 100% Sammy. And OMG, what is this going to do to Dean? :cry: I'm trembling with anticipation.

Happy Hellatus.
Thanks for the comment.

I think that Gadreel and Castiel do have an awful lot in common. They're both trying to redeem mistakes they've made and they seem to find the worst possible ways to do that. I'll be curious to see how Gadreel's working with Metatron will work in the second half. In the end, Metatron is going to use him and anyone else he can to get what he wants. I'm sure it's more than rebuilding Heaven with "funny angels" and becoming God or X. He's up to something much more sinister than that.

The acting this season all around has been great. Jared's been astounding in his ability to show us so many characters in such a seamless manner. I have to sometimes rewind just to catch all the nuances and skill he's put into each character, and after I'm just awed.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-09 17:32
Quoting Safa:
Great Review ! I'm not a fan of angel stories and whatever going on in this war between angels , So the episode's main story didn't get my attention !
But what got my eyes was Jared Padalecki and how he once again surprised us ! The transition between Sam , Zeke and Gadreel was Emmy Worthy ! He did a brilliantly amazing job bringing 3 different characters in just one episode !


Thanks for the comment.

I'm going to be very curious to see how they deal with Sam an Gadreel in the back half of the season and I look forward to seeing the story that surrounds it. I think it's been about finding a way to save Sam---either from the Trials themselves and their effects or now what to do about Gadreel's possession of him. I think it's going to make for some great and emotional story.

I also look forward to seeing how Jared presents that story as Sam or Gadreel or both. He's awed me this season with his ability, and I can't wait to see how he does that come January again.

Thanks again!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-09 17:32
Quote:
Great Review ! I'm not a fan of angel stories and whatever going on in this war between angels , So the episode's main story didn't get my attention !
But what got my eyes was Jared Padalecki and how he once again surprised us ! The transition between Sam , Zeke and Gadreel was Emmy Worthy ! He did a brilliantly amazing job bringing 3 different characters in just one episode !
Thanks for the comment.

I'm going to be very curious to see how they deal with Sam an Gadreel in the back half of the season and I look forward to seeing the story that surrounds it. I think it's been about finding a way to save Sam---either from the Trials themselves and their effects or now what to do about Gadreel's possession of him. I think it's going to make for some great and emotional story.

I also look forward to seeing how Jared presents that story as Sam or Gadreel or both. He's awed me this season with his ability, and I can't wait to see how he does that come January again.

Thanks again!
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-12-09 18:09
Thank you for this review. You do write the most gorgeous, fascinating reviews.

I thought this was a fabulous episode, well fabulous and horrifying - oh, poor Kevin! :cry: I loved Kevin, he's been one of my favourite characters on the show for a good while now. I was riveted to my screen from start to finish even though I'm someone who's never been particularly interested in the angel storylines. Have to admit, I did really enjoy Metatron. He's so devious, so calculating, so manipulative and yet so highly entertaining. :lol: The actor is wonderful. They were all wonderful. Jensen ripped my heart to shreds and Jared, the way he switched seamlessly between Sam, 'Zeke' and Gadreel....just amazing.

I'm still not that bothered by the angel wars but the brotherly stuff, poor Sam and Gadreel, what happened to poor, poor Kevin, poor Dean seeing everything fall apart so tragically and so terrifyingly all around him....oh, it was all fantastic. I cannot wait to see what happens to Sam and to see how he's going to react when he learns what has happened. After all he said to Death about not wanting to hurt anymore people...when he finds out about Kevin and how it happened... :sad: The boy is going to be utterly devastated. I'm looking forward to seeing the boys dealing with the aftermath of what has happened. It's going to be so angsty but, hopefully, so very good too.
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-12-09 18:09
Thank you for this review. You do write the most gorgeous, fascinating reviews.

I thought this was a fabulous episode, well fabulous and horrifying - oh, poor Kevin! :cry: I loved Kevin, he's been one of my favourite characters on the show for a good while now. I was riveted to my screen from start to finish even though I'm someone who's never been particularly interested in the angel storylines. Have to admit, I did really enjoy Metatron. He's so devious, so calculating, so manipulative and yet so highly entertaining. :lol: The actor is wonderful. They were all wonderful. Jensen ripped my heart to shreds and Jared, the way he switched seamlessly between Sam, 'Zeke' and Gadreel....just amazing.

I'm still not that bothered by the angel wars but the brotherly stuff, poor Sam and Gadreel, what happened to poor, poor Kevin, poor Dean seeing everything fall apart so tragically and so terrifyingly all around him....oh, it was all fantastic. I cannot wait to see what happens to Sam and to see how he's going to react when he learns what has happened. After all he said to Death about not wanting to hurt anymore people...when he finds out about Kevin and how it happened... :sad: The boy is going to be utterly devastated. I'm looking forward to seeing the boys dealing with the aftermath of what has happened. It's going to be so angsty but, hopefully, so very good too.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-09 18:32
Quoting Gwen:
Thank you for this review. You do write the most gorgeous, fascinating reviews.

I thought this was a fabulous episode, well fabulous and horrifying - oh, poor Kevin! :cry: I loved Kevin, he's been one of my favourite characters on the show for a good while now. I was riveted to my screen from start to finish even though I'm someone who's never been particularly interested in the angel storylines. Have to admit, I did really enjoy Metatron. He's so devious, so calculating, so manipulative and yet so highly entertaining. :lol: The actor is wonderful. They were all wonderful. Jensen ripped my heart to shreds and Jared, the way he switched seamlessly between Sam, 'Zeke' and Gadreel....just amazing.

I'm still not that bothered by the angel wars but the brotherly stuff, poor Sam and Gadreel, what happened to poor, poor Kevin, poor Dean seeing everything fall apart so tragically and so terrifyingly all around him....oh, it was all fantastic. I cannot wait to see what happens to Sam and to see how he's going to react when he learns what has happened. After all he said to Death about not wanting to hurt anymore people...when he finds out about Kevin and how it happened... :sad: The boy is going to be utterly devastated. I'm looking forward to seeing the boys dealing with the aftermath of what has happened. It's going to be so angsty but, hopefully, so very good too.


Thanks so much for the comment!

I'm glad you like my rather non-conventiona l style of reviewing. I blame college. My profs kinda told me to avoid simply saying I liked it or didn't like it approach so this is what I end up doing.

I was devastated by Kevin's loss and have another piece in the works to mourn our lost Prophet. I did scream in horror when he was killed. I didn't want him to be the name on the card. I get why---Metatron knows he's the most dangerous threat to him.

Which brings us to Metatron. Curtis Armstrong is deliciously evil in this episode and I enjoyed his scenes a lot---even if I didn't like what Metatron was doing. He is the kind of villian we can love to hate and I like that.

I am siting on pins and needles about what's going ot happen next. I can't wait until January and this Hellatus is going to be a rough one, I think. Even more so than when the angels fell and the Trials were stopped short. I need to see what happens NOW and I can't wait to see how Jared and Jensen tell us Sam and Dean's story surrounding this whole situation. It's gonna be punch to the gut and good and a ride I can't wait to get on again.

Thanks again!
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-09 18:32
Quote:
Thank you for this review. You do write the most gorgeous, fascinating reviews.

I thought this was a fabulous episode, well fabulous and horrifying - oh, poor Kevin! :cry: I loved Kevin, he's been one of my favourite characters on the show for a good while now. I was riveted to my screen from start to finish even though I'm someone who's never been particularly interested in the angel storylines. Have to admit, I did really enjoy Metatron. He's so devious, so calculating, so manipulative and yet so highly entertaining. :lol: The actor is wonderful. They were all wonderful. Jensen ripped my heart to shreds and Jared, the way he switched seamlessly between Sam, 'Zeke' and Gadreel....just amazing.

I'm still not that bothered by the angel wars but the brotherly stuff, poor Sam and Gadreel, what happened to poor, poor Kevin, poor Dean seeing everything fall apart so tragically and so terrifyingly all around him....oh, it was all fantastic. I cannot wait to see what happens to Sam and to see how he's going to react when he learns what has happened. After all he said to Death about not wanting to hurt anymore people...when he finds out about Kevin and how it happened... :sad: The boy is going to be utterly devastated. I'm looking forward to seeing the boys dealing with the aftermath of what has happened. It's going to be so angsty but, hopefully, so very good too.
Thanks so much for the comment!

I'm glad you like my rather non-conventiona l style of reviewing. I blame college. My profs kinda told me to avoid simply saying I liked it or didn't like it approach so this is what I end up doing.

I was devastated by Kevin's loss and have another piece in the works to mourn our lost Prophet. I did scream in horror when he was killed. I didn't want him to be the name on the card. I get why---Metatron knows he's the most dangerous threat to him.

Which brings us to Metatron. Curtis Armstrong is deliciously evil in this episode and I enjoyed his scenes a lot---even if I didn't like what Metatron was doing. He is the kind of villian we can love to hate and I like that.

I am siting on pins and needles about what's going ot happen next. I can't wait until January and this Hellatus is going to be a rough one, I think. Even more so than when the angels fell and the Trials were stopped short. I need to see what happens NOW and I can't wait to see how Jared and Jensen tell us Sam and Dean's story surrounding this whole situation. It's gonna be punch to the gut and good and a ride I can't wait to get on again.

Thanks again!
Abby S
# Abby S 2013-12-09 19:52
I just re-watched the preview for "Road Trip" and paused it ever second or so.
The very last scene, with that pin/needle/what ever going into Sam's head, you can see the blue angel/grace/stu ff coming out of Sam's mouth......

Also, like to point out that if he's strapped down, there has to be some kind of sigil to keep the angel from zapping away, right? If so, wouldn't' Cas's powers be zapped too?


Five weeks is way too long....
Abby S
# Abby S 2013-12-09 19:52
I just re-watched the preview for "Road Trip" and paused it ever second or so.
The very last scene, with that pin/needle/what ever going into Sam's head, you can see the blue angel/grace/stu ff coming out of Sam's mouth......

Also, like to point out that if he's strapped down, there has to be some kind of sigil to keep the angel from zapping away, right? If so, wouldn't' Cas's powers be zapped too?


Five weeks is way too long....
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-09 23:39
Quoting Abby S:
I just re-watched the preview for "Road Trip" and paused it ever second or so.
The very last scene, with that pin/needle/whatever going into Sam's head, you can see the blue angel/grace/stuff coming out of Sam's mouth......

Also, like to point out that if he's strapped down, there has to be some kind of sigil to keep the angel from zapping away, right? If so, wouldn't' Cas's powers be zapped too?


Five weeks is way too long....


Thanks for the comment.

I wouldn't really know too much about what's going to come. I'm not sure how they're going to contain Gadreel in Sam, but my guess is it'll be much the same way that Crowley did his thing on Samandriel last season. I'll be curious to see how it all ends up here.

I agree, this break is too long this year. I want to see what happens NOW.

Thanks again.
Far Away Eyes
# Far Away Eyes 2013-12-09 23:39
Quote:
I just re-watched the preview for "Road Trip" and paused it ever second or so.
The very last scene, with that pin/needle/whatever going into Sam's head, you can see the blue angel/grace/stuff coming out of Sam's mouth......

Also, like to point out that if he's strapped down, there has to be some kind of sigil to keep the angel from zapping away, right? If so, wouldn't' Cas's powers be zapped too?


Five weeks is way too long....
Thanks for the comment.

I wouldn't really know too much about what's going to come. I'm not sure how they're going to contain Gadreel in Sam, but my guess is it'll be much the same way that Crowley did his thing on Samandriel last season. I'll be curious to see how it all ends up here.

I agree, this break is too long this year. I want to see what happens NOW.

Thanks again.
Rgclay
# Rgclay 2013-12-16 18:52
Metatron:"All the Angels fell - even the imprisoned ones".... So does that mean Michael and Lucifer are out of "the cage"???
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-12-16 19:21
Quote:
Metatron:"All the Angels fell - even the imprisoned ones".... So does that mean Michael and Lucifer are out of "the cage"???
I'm pretty sure he meant the ones imprisoned in heaven, which does bring up the issue of who ELSE was imprisoned and why. Technically Lucifer had already fallen the first time, so he couldn't fall again. Michael, maybe? But I think that as of now, Michael and Luci are still battling it out in The Cage. At least Metatron better hope they are, because the one thing I can see them getting together on is getting their brothers and sisters back to heaven. Nobody is going to run heaven and earth except one of them.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-12-16 19:21
Quote:
Metatron:"All the Angels fell - even the imprisoned ones".... So does that mean Michael and Lucifer are out of "the cage"???
I'm pretty sure he meant the ones imprisoned in heaven, which does bring up the issue of who ELSE was imprisoned and why. Technically Lucifer had already fallen the first time, so he couldn't fall again. Michael, maybe? But I think that as of now, Michael and Luci are still battling it out in The Cage. At least Metatron better hope they are, because the one thing I can see them getting together on is getting their brothers and sisters back to heaven. Nobody is going to run heaven and earth except one of them.
E
# E 2013-12-16 20:11
Quoting percysowner:
Quote:
Metatron:"All the Angels fell - even the imprisoned ones".... So does that mean Michael and Lucifer are out of "the cage"???


?
I'm pretty sure he meant the ones imprisoned in heaven, which does bring up the issue of who ELSE was imprisoned and why. Technically Lucifer had already fallen the first time, so he couldn't fall again. Michael, maybe? But I think that as of now, Michael and Luci are still battling it out in The Cage. At least Metatron better hope they are, because the one thing I can see them getting together on is getting their brothers and sisters back to heaven. Nobody is going to run heaven and earth except one of them.


And FYI, the cage the Lucifer and Michael are in is in Hell, not Heaven, so thankfully I think that we are safe from Apocalypse part deux, at least for now!
E
# E 2013-12-16 20:11
Quote:
Quote:
Metatron:"All the Angels fell - even the imprisoned ones".... So does that mean Michael and Lucifer are out of "the cage"???
?
I'm pretty sure he meant the ones imprisoned in heaven, which does bring up the issue of who ELSE was imprisoned and why. Technically Lucifer had already fallen the first time, so he couldn't fall again. Michael, maybe? But I think that as of now, Michael and Luci are still battling it out in The Cage. At least Metatron better hope they are, because the one thing I can see them getting together on is getting their brothers and sisters back to heaven. Nobody is going to run heaven and earth except one of them.


And FYI, the cage the Lucifer and Michael are in is in Hell, not Heaven, so thankfully I think that we are safe from Apocalypse part deux, at least for now!