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Aww there’s no place like home…. *wibble* I must admit to getting a little misty eyed at the end there. Me being me, I really hope that was Sam going, “Well, maybe.” He’s such a thoughtful guy, he would’ve considered what Dean said and why exactly he’s not thinking of the bunker as a home…but I’ll get to that!

There was so much to enjoy in the super fun “Slumber Party”. Writer Robbie Thompson managed to, once again, balance the light-hearted moments with the tension and pathos…including some stomach-ache inducing angst! This is what Supernatural does best. Blending humour, horror and hurties. I know of no other show that can mix-up such a range of emotions…in me! It’s one of the things I love about the show the most…the whiplash of feels!

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The stiff, black and while flashbacks to the original Men of Letters had a lovely vintage style, cadence and language, which captured the period perfectly. It also helped to reinforce what the MoL were once like and how Sam and Dean are so very different. The long dead secret society where there was nothing worse than adventure! Can you imagine the Winchesters being brought up to live in that world? I can’t. Somehow I think, no matter how they were raised, adventure would always find them.


I’m not a fan of the movie The Wizard of Oz, but I’m pretty familiar with it. I thought the script integrated and updated elements of this much-loved story brilliantly. References to characters and how the reality was vastly different to the children’s classic was cleverly told and helped make what could have been a pretty ridiculous concept, feel grounded.

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The Wicked Witch of the West was even creepier than the original witch! Cutting out her tongue (how hard core was that), made her scarier somehow, as did the fact that she couldn’t talk, she could only hiss and make growly noises – except when she let out that cackle, which made me clap my hands! Literally. The black stuff around her mouth reminded me of Danny DeVito’s The Penguin. It was gross. She was gross! I totally dug her.

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Dorothy was a cracker. A real Amelia Earhart type and while I think that the actress sometimes looked a little out of her depth, I liked how they revisioned the character and worked her into the Supernatural Universe. I like a kickass chick. I like someone who is unapologetically his or her self.

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That’s the reason I love Charlie. She is who she is. She’s funny and geeky and original and makes no excuses for that. But she’s also real. She’s not defined by her individual elements; she’s a whole of many parts, which makes her feel fully fleshed out. She’s brave, but also scared. She’s independent, yet craves family connections. She has a tragic past, but she rises above it with sass and a smile, both of which show her true vulnerability. She’s brilliant and she knows it, but still can’t help but smile to herself when she’s called the smartest person in the room.

When Charlie’s around the boys, they soften. We see a different side of them. Sam seems to take a great deal of glee in her and is more trusting to let her take risks if that’s what she wants to do. She’s going to Oz? Sam’s all beaming at her because he knows she’ll be excited. I feel like Sam and Charlie are kindred spirits in many ways. I feel like if she stayed for a while, they’d become great friends. Dean goes into mega-big-brother mode around Charlie and wants to protect her. He’s softer around her. He tries to be his gruff self, but he’s just not. He treats her like a little sister. I think he’d let her get away with just about anything. She sees right through his crap and calls him on it and he knows it and I think he secretly digs it.

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Charlie helps to reflect the Winchesters back at themselves. Seeing Sam and Dean through her eyes, we see them just a little differently. She draws out of them conversations that they probably would have got to, but somehow she manages to get them there sooner. If for no other reason (though there are plenty of other reasons), this is why I love Charlie. This is why I love having different characters in the show, because having different people around Sam and Dean gives us a chance to see different sides to them. Plus Charlie loves the Winchesters. They don’t have a lot of people in their lives, let alone people who champion them, who tell them they can do anything when they work together, who most obviously thinks they’re awesome. They need that. A little validation never goes astray, especially for a duo that chronically self hate and self doubt like they do. Charlie has definitely become one of my favourite characters from the Supernatural series. I simply like her.

Okay, favourite subject time.

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I positively got the warm and fuzzies when Dean came in with take out and season 1 of Game of Thrones. I like nothing more than thinking about the Winchesters having a night off, watching TV, sitting in the comfort of silently being with the one person you’re closest to. Two of my favourite scenes ever were the scene in “Swan Song” when we got to hear about what the guys did during their down time…ball games, watching the stars, normal things; then the scene in “Death’s Door” when they were bickering over liquorice on Bobby’s sofa. Ordinary moments that brothers share in their extraordinary life. The thought of them kicking back in the MoL bunker and watching a movie fills me with bubbles of joy!

Speaking of which, we finally got to see Sam’s room. I don’t know about you, but I had no clue that was coming!

I wasn’t really surprised by Sam’s room having a less comfortable vibe than Dean’s, regardless of how he thinks about the bunker and home.

Dean is a creature of comfort, Sam is more pragmatic. Just look at what they eat. Dean eats junk food and pie – the kind of foods that are bad for you but make you feel good. Sam eats salads, they’re healthy, they may not be emotionally satisfying (at least not for me) but they do the job they’re supposed to do.

In their rooms, Dean has a squishy mattress and Sam has a utilitarian one. Dean has his records, posters, vintage porn; all the things that make him feel comfortable. Sam’s room’s filled with files, books, things of necessity…including a big-ass TV!

I think their rooms not only demonstrate how differently they feel about the notion of the bunker as home, but also what different men they really are. I think Sam’s room probably is his style.

What Sam said about home made perfect sense, but I think there’s more to it than that.

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People may question what a four year old would remember about home. Dean was traumatically ripped from his home at such a young age, but he was with his father. His father who would remember home and Mary and his boys as a family, (even if idealised) and I’m sure, at least in the early years, would talk to his eldest son about that. By the time Sam was the same age as Dean was when Mary died, Dean would have had years of his father’s recollections, grief, anger, yearning for the past. So though he was very young when his mother was taken from him, he was not too young to have his father talk to him about her and their life together. Sam was. The brothers have a different relationship with home.

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And yes, in the past Sam has tried to create a home and each time it has been devastating for him. Jess and Amelia. But also to an extent, Bobby and Dean. Both of these men represented home to him too and both have been torn from his life. Yes he has Dean back, but I think part of Sam’s reluctance to reconcile himself with the notion that the brothers may now have a home as opposed to a base, is because he’s scared to go there, not just because of Jess or Amelia, but because the recent loss of his brother is still raw and what if he did relax just a little and make the bunker his home, what if they did find comfort there and what if in letting down that guard he was devastated by loss again? How would he survive that? I think there’s a hell of a lot to why Sam is unwilling to call the bunker home and I do think it’s unwilling as opposed to simply not seeing it as such. I think to allow himself that small level of contentment is just too scary, because the cost could be too great.

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Of course in reality, as ham and cheese as it sounds, wherever they both are, it’s home. Car, cabin in the woods, crappy motel room, epic bunker, as long as they're together it’s home. They are each other’s home and I think on some level, they both understand that.

For Dean the bunker represents more than comfort it represents safety. This is a somewhere they are safe. This is a somewhere his brother is safe. But beyond that, this is somewhere his brother is happy. He saw what discovering the MoL meant to Sam. How that gave Sam a sense of place. For Dean, that would make the MoL bunker somewhere to treasure and that would most certainly affect how he feels and interacts with it. Sam is kinda happy in the bunker. Sam’s happy, Dean’s happy.

He’s a freakin’ marshmallow on the inside that Dean Winchester. Tough, snarky, flirty, badassed…but he was always the caretaker for his family. So yeah, it makes sense his room is nice, he cleans the kitchen, he cooks, he alphabetises his porn. I love how each little reveal and odd little layer makes his character that much richer. Just… Bless.

Except… yeah, then there’s the other stuff going on.

I was a tad concerned when Sam said he was going to get the computer to act as an angle alert. The damn thing would be going off the whole time that Sam was in the bunker! How would Dean cover that one up? Badly I’d say. He’s one hell of a sloppy liar. Oh yeah…all the lies. I need him to come clean. I hope that happens soon. Not that I think he’s going to sit Sam down and say, “Sammy, I need to talk to you about something…” more that Sam’s going to figure it out. He's already on his way there. Dean keeps telling shockingly, wobbly lies. Sam keeps waking up after being conked out and Dean goes…”Oh yeah the thingamabob got you, Sam.” Um. Okay. Sam’s questioning what’s going on around him and why Cass is gone and who the hell Zeke is. I can literally seeing the cogs in that great big brain of his turning and putting it all together. It’s coming and it’s going to hurt.

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Last week I squirmed when Dean called on Zeke to help him find Cass, pushing Sam to the back of himself. This week I squirmed even more when he called on Zeke to heal Charlie. Yeah, had to happen and I get why they did it. For a start, Charlie can't die, (nope) but also Zeke had to be too weak to kill the witch or prevent the witch from influencing Sam’s mind (it’s getting crowded inside Sam). But… Hey Dean, what did I say last week? STOP THAT. It’s one thing to agree to let an angel into your brother to save his life, it’s another to keep asking that angel to pop out and lend a hand. Slippery slope, my pretty. Slippery slope. One that he’s sliding down at a great rate of knots. The whole thing is breaking my heart. For Sam and for Dean.

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Personally, I think Sam’s going to be okay with the angel thing. He won’t be thrilled but I think he’ll be okay with it. But the lying? Uh-uh. And like I keep saying, I get it. I get why Dean’s lying. He’s scared to tell Sam, in case Sam reacts differently to how I think he will and instantly expels Ezekiel and consequently dies. Dean would be living in absolute fear of it all going south like that. But Dean is getting deeper and deeper into the lie and he’s getting deeper and deeper into Ezekiel’s debt. Which I think is the point. Two dead friends in two weeks with Zeke’s magical angel power being able to resurrect them. But every time he does something like that, Dean is indebted to him and every time he does something like that, Zeke’s weaker again which means he has to stay longer in Sam. Zeke says he doesn’t want that. I’m desperate to believe him. I still feel in my guts that Zeke is going to be on the up and up…not that there won’t be some drama around him beyond the taking of Sam as his vessel, but I still have no reason to doubt him other than I’m a fan of this show! Of course, bottom line, Dean wouldn’t be able to live with Cass’ or Charlie’s death on his hands. He had a powerful being available who could fix that, so he got him to fix it. Yeah, we get it Dean…but…just…stop.

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Essentially though, I loved everything going on with the brothers in “Slumber Party”, including the stuff that gave me a frowny face. The take out and DVDs, the arguing over the hang in there kitty poster, the talk about home, Sam questioning Dean and Dean tap dancing like freakin’ Fred Astaire and especially the, "There's no place like home" moment between them at the end, which I think was Sam giving a little something to his brother, to help make him feel better. Just… Bless.


Other stuff I loved, like a lot…

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The awesome bunker of awesomeness…the kitchen, the magical computer, Sam’s room, the garage, THE GARAGE. THE.GARAGE. Honestly, I think the bunker is like the Tardis; it operates on the fourth dimension!

Giving Crowley a crayon! Smarty-pants Winchester move that one. I love that they have him locked in the basement while they’re watching TV in another room. How truly bizarre.

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The VFX. Especially the witchy green smoke, the two glimpses of Oz and the flying monkeys.

The ruby slippers. I loved the line “Seemed kind of tacky wearing a dead woman’s shoes.” Indeed!

The reference to the books and to Becky (Winchester 176). At least she's not samlicker81 anymore!

When Dean just pulled out his Colt and shot Crowley. “I think you’re aired out enough.” That was wicked hot!

The scene on the bed as they all ate popcorn, drank beer and watched Game of Thrones. Adorable. ADORABLE. (Invite me next time.)

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And Sam’s little smile to Dean at the end…

*sigh* Even when they hurt…they hurt so good.


Thanks for reading!

-sweetondean





Comments  

Rhonda Benedict
# Rhonda Benedict 2013-10-31 07:27
lol..honestly? I loved every freakin' moment of it!! One of the most fun episodes *ever*. That reference Dean made to leaving Kevin in Branson for 48 hours? Hello, that town is in my backyard (practically speaking, I live in Missouri after all just outside KC) had my whole family cracking up!! Robbie did a bang-up job with the writing. Jerry Wanek and his crew did an *amazing* job on the bunker!! My son is in love with the garage and its contents. And the VFX were off the charts awesome! Plus..any episode with Charlie is a win! =)
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-10-31 08:16
Quote:
Of course in reality, as ham and cheese as it sounds, wherever they both are, it’s home. Car, cabin in the woods, crappy motel room, epic bunker, as long as they're together it’s home. They are each other’s home and I think on some level, they both understand that.
Not ham & cheese at all SweetonDean, I've always thought that. As long as these two are together, everything is right with the world IMO. :-)

I absolutely loved this episode. Robbie Thompson has become my favourite writer on the show, I love the guy. The fact that he managed to put a line in there about librarians being awesome makes me like him even more. Yeah, you guessed it, I'm a librarian. So Sam wanting to read the BOOKS of "Game of Thrones" instead of just watching the show warmed the cockles of my heart. I have nothing to add, you said it all beautifully. Thanks. ;-)
m1tchells
# m1tchells 2013-10-31 08:52
Quote:
Honestly, I think the bunker is like the Tardis; it operates on the fourth dimension!
LOL! I have to admit, I read this, paused, and thought...surel y they aren't going there! Too funny! :P
sofia
# sofia 2013-10-31 09:14
Love this review! We are in total agreement on this episode. It was so fun and heartwarming. I'm also glad I'm not the only one who enjoys the inevitable tension between the brothers. Even if it makes me feel a little sick to think about.

Thanks!
winmomwannabe
# winmomwannabe 2013-10-31 11:47
Another great review of a wonderful episode. I liked it a LOT. Robbie is just the best! I am so happy he visited the set and it made him want to write an entire episode in the bunker.

Maybe it's the mama in me, but I also loved seeing the 'ordinary' things they do in their down time. Just being 'normal' boys. Ok, I know they're men, but in my heart they are still boys. 'My boys!' Since I have 3 of my own boys, again, young men I so enjoy those moments. When they want to hang out together, even tho they live in 3 different cities my heart gets all warm and fuzzy. (Altho last time I told my sons that they asked me if I wasn't sure it was a hot flash! Ha!)

The VFX just epic. And the rich colors were so happy. I've thought a lot of this season has looked so much brighter. The writing, just incredible. Thank you Robbie Thompson. Charlie does add such dimension to the boys. And now I look at the 3 as 'my kiddos' , especially since I have 3. Just too cute together. Brings out such great layers in each of them and endears us to them even more. How can that even happen? This show somehow just has the magical touch to make me love it more when I think I've peaked.

Keep smiling Amy. Thank YOU.
leah FFFC
# leah FFFC 2013-10-31 12:55
Amy, thank you so much. I am always smiling when I read your reviews. #1- because you are just so funny and upbeat and #2- you see the show and the characters the same way I do. This episode was thoroughly fun and yet it constantly reminded us of the seriousness of the situation at hand and the sadness that is their lives. Not many shows can pull that off. Dean, not selfish and manipulative, just a loving brother that does not know how to let his brother die. A brother who wants to go though this hard life with his brother beside him but could let go if he thought that Sam could be happy and have his normal. I think he wants that above all things and that is why I love him. And why I feel sad for him because he does not think he is worth having that for himself. The bunker is the closest these boys have had to a home and some contentment so for that alone I am loving the direction of the show.
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-10-31 13:21
For some reason, I don't feel complete until I read your reviews. Maybe it's because we think a lot alike. But really, awesome review as usual! I loved the fact that Charlie is like their little sister and she called Dean on his BS! I also loved that Dorothy tried "dousing her with holy water" I didn't catch that until the second time around and I was like "umm...you guys had to watch the movie THROW WATER AT HER!" Guess I should pay attention more. :D
Joelene
# Joelene 2013-10-31 13:50
Very enjoyable review - thank-you.

I'm not a fan of Dean sending Sam away in favor of Zeke either, though I do understand why he does it. Like you, I don't think Sam is going to have as much of a problem with being possessed by an Angel, as he's going to have with all the lies, and distrust.

At the end of last season we learned just how important Dean's trust is to Sam, and although Dean assured Sam that he's always been, and always will be the most important person in his life, Dean never actually voiced his trust in Sam, and I believe finding out that Dean trusted "another Angel" over his brother is going to be a crushing, emotional blow to Sam.

I don't say that to bash on Dean; I actually understand Dean's reluctance to trust that Sam will happily leave Zeke in place were Sam to learn of the internal being keeping him alive - it's a sticky situation Dean finds himself in, and I feel for both brothers.

As for Zeke - I kinda think he's never going to want to leave Sam, which is all kinds of creepy, but it could be an awesome thing to watch.
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-10-31 15:31
I think Sam could have a terrible problem being possessed by an angel because that's what Lucifer wanted to do and to stop him, Sam went to hell (and back). So as much as I want to believe he'll understand, I'm afraid he won't. I have this crazy 'looking forward to that moment and dreading it at the same time' dichotomy going on.

Last season, Dean flat out told Sam that he couldn't take any more lies, and here he is, lying through his teeth about everything (or almost). Of course, I understand completely why it's necessary - the risk is too great and the cost would be Sam's life if Sam doesn't want that angel in him. Dean is walking on eggshells, and taking us right along with him.

I'm loving how the season is unfolding and grateful they are giving us a break from the serious. Next week is looking like a ton of fun too.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-10-31 15:49
Quote:
I think Sam could have a terrible problem being possessed by an angel because that's what Lucifer wanted to do and to stop him, Sam went to hell (and back). So as much as I want to believe he'll understand, I'm afraid he won't. I have this crazy 'looking forward to that moment and dreading it at the same time' dichotomy going on.
I think he'll be upset about it, how could he not. But I have a feeling like, this is going to be something he understands more than the lying. So I think it's the lying that's going to be the big problem here. I think it'll outweigh the angel issue. It's the lies that really upset both the brothers. And yet, they keep doing it! Gah!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-10-31 15:56
Quote:
At the end of last season we learned just how important Dean's trust is to Sam, and although Dean assured Sam that he's always been, and always will be the most important person in his life, Dean never actually voiced his trust in Sam, and I believe finding out that Dean trusted "another Angel" over his brother is going to be a crushing, emotional blow to Sam.
I don't see this as not trusting Sam as opposed to knowing Sam and knowing that having an angel all up inside him is not going to make him happy. I don't think it's that Dean's trusting Zeke over Sam - actually I very much doubt Dean fully trusts Zeke, though we're yet to see that explored. I think Dean was desperate and threw caution to the wind and I think Dean's just scared that coming clean with Sam will mean Zeke will be ejected and Sam will die. So I see this as lies and fear over mistrust. Sam's not doing anything to make Dean not trust him, Dean just knows, or thinks he knows how Sam will react and that will kill him. All of us feel the same way as Dean, right? Sam ain't gonna be happy. Dean's scared and he'll be equally as scared of the fallout when Sam discovers the truth.
judyann
# judyann 2013-10-31 16:03
Sweetondean, Always love reading your reviews. Can tell you love the show no matter what! Liked the episode but didn't love it. Usually really like Robbie's work. Maybe it was due to also not a big Wiz of Oz fan. Agree Dean needs to come clean about Zeke. And Zeke needs to stop healing everyone. No consequences for actions is never good. Not sure what to think about Zeke but like you hope is on the up and up.
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-10-31 16:43
Quote:

I think he'll be upset about it, how could he not. But I have a feeling like, this is going to be something he understands more than the lying. So I think it's the lying that's going to be the big problem here. I think it'll outweigh the angel issue. It's the lies that really upset both the brothers. And yet, they keep doing it! Gah!
Yes, it's one of the things I love about this series - all the nuanced angles they use to draw us in. The writing team they have is brilliant. There's just enough conflict brewing under the surface to keep us all on pins and needles, wondering when Sam is going to find out and how. Dean is scared, which makes me petrified.
leah FFFC
# leah FFFC 2013-10-31 16:45
Quote:
Quote:
At the end of last season we learned just how important Dean's trust is to Sam, and although Dean assured Sam that he's always been, and always will be the most important person in his life, Dean never actually voiced his trust in Sam, and I believe finding out that Dean trusted "another Angel" over his brother is going to be a crushing, emotional blow to Sam.
I don't see this as not trusting Sam as opposed to knowing Sam and knowing that having an angel all up inside him is not going to make him happy. I don't think it's that Dean's trusting Zeke over Sam - actually I very much doubt Dean fully trusts Zeke, though we're yet to see that explored. I think Dean was desperate and threw caution to the wind and I think Dean's just scared that coming clean with Sam will mean Zeke will be ejected and Sam will die. So I see this as lies and fear over mistrust. Sam's not doing anything to make Dean not trust him, Dean just knows, or thinks he knows how Sam will react and that will kill him. All of us feel the same way as Dean, right? Sam ain't gonna be happy. Dean's scared and he'll be equally as scared of the fallout when Sam discovers the truth.
I agree completely that this isn't a trust issue. This was a Hail Mary move made in a panic to save Sam's life. No preplanning or forethought involved.
Dean is dancing as fast as he can to make sure that Sam gets healed before he finds. Dean is well aware that things are going to be bad. He is not acting all cocky or defiant. He is scared and not at all proud of decieving Sam IMO.
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-10-31 16:46
SweetonDean, I love reading your reviews. They are like flying. Thank you.
amyh
# amyh 2013-10-31 16:51
Quote:
Very enjoyable review - thank-you.

I'm not a fan of Dean sending Sam away in favor of Zeke either, though I do understand why he does it. Like you, I don't think Sam is going to have as much of a problem with being possessed by an Angel, as he's going to have with all the lies, and distrust.

At the end of last season we learned just how important Dean's trust is to Sam, and although Dean assured Sam that he's always been, and always will be the most important person in his life, Dean never actually voiced his trust in Sam, and I believe finding out that Dean trusted "another Angel" over his brother is going to be a crushing, emotional blow to Sam.

I don't say that to bash on Dean; I actually understand Dean's reluctance to trust that Sam will happily leave Zeke in place were Sam to learn of the internal being keeping him alive - it's a sticky situation Dean finds himself in, and I feel for both brothers.

As for Zeke - I kinda think he's never going to want to leave Sam, which is all kinds of creepy, but it could be an awesome thing to watch.
Jolene, I think you have hit the nail on the head with some concerns i have. The FANS know Sam wont have a problem with the possession as much as he will with the lies. If the FANS know this then why doesn't DEAN...the guy who keeps claiming he knows Sam so well. Maybe SweetonDean or someone else can explain this for me: Why doesn't Dean just sit Sam down and tell him the truth? I mean Sam basically gave consent while comotose. "There aint no me if there aint no you" is powerful stuff.

If Dean did another version of that sentiment now in a talk I can't see Sam being angry cause we KNOW sam feels the same way. And i geuss this is why I'm having a difficult time scraping up sympathy for Dean.

"You were dying...on life support. I was desperate. I had a plan. Angel mind melded us. You said yes. Angel promises blah blah....Castiel vouches for him...here talk to cas.

Zeke lets Sam remember the unconcious state, him saying yes. He is currently alive...and glad to be alive. Talks to Zeke. "Thank you Dean." HUG. "Thank you for telling me the truth. Its not ideal situation but when have the boys ever been in an ideal situation?

I'm worried if Zeke ever decides to take a teleport trip with Sams body. And after everything with Jimmy novak i worry most about Zeke 'absorbing' Sam. Thats what i worry most about with this storyline...los ing Sam.

And for the first time ever in the series i think its entirely possible that while Jared will still be with us...we'll lose Sam.
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-10-31 16:53
Quote:
All of us feel the same way as Dean, right? Sam ain't gonna be happy. Dean's scared and he'll be equally as scared of the fallout when Sam discovers the truth.
Yes! Exactly! And here's another little conflict brewing right along with this one - What will happen when Zeke says no to Dean the first time, and someone dies because of it? That'll be another emotionally intense moment.
Joelene
# Joelene 2013-10-31 17:19
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
At the end of last season we learned just how important Dean's trust is to Sam, and although Dean assured Sam that he's always been, and always will be the most important person in his life, Dean never actually voiced his trust in Sam, and I believe finding out that Dean trusted "another Angel" over his brother is going to be a crushing, emotional blow to Sam.
I don't see this as not trusting Sam as opposed to knowing Sam and knowing that having an angel all up inside him is not going to make him happy. I don't think it's that Dean's trusting Zeke over Sam - actually I very much doubt Dean fully trusts Zeke, though we're yet to see that explored. I think Dean was desperate and threw caution to the wind and I think Dean's just scared that coming clean with Sam will mean Zeke will be ejected and Sam will die. So I see this as lies and fear over mistrust. Sam's not doing anything to make Dean not trust him, Dean just knows, or thinks he knows how Sam will react and that will kill him. All of us feel the same way as Dean, right? Sam ain't gonna be happy. Dean's scared and he'll be equally as scared of the fallout when Sam discovers the truth.
I agree completely that this isn't a trust issue. This was a Hail Mary move made in a panic to save Sam's life. No preplanning or forethought involved.
Dean is dancing as fast as he can to make sure that Sam gets healed before he finds. Dean is well aware that things are going to be bad. He is not acting all cocky or defiant. He is scared and not at all proud of decieving Sam IMO.
I agree that Dean made a Hail Mary move in agreeing to allow Zeke to take possession of Sam, and I can't blame him for that panic driven decision, but after the fact when Dean's plan is to make Sam aware of what's taken place, Zeke successfully places doubt in Dean's mind as to whether Sam will allow the healing to continue - IMO that's when the trust issue comes into play. I think Sam will see it as Dean not trusting Sam to make the 'right' decision and at that point the choice should've been up to Sam alone.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-10-31 17:39
Quote:
Quote:
At the end of last season we learned just how important Dean's trust is to Sam, and although Dean assured Sam that he's always been, and always will be the most important person in his life, Dean never actually voiced his trust in Sam, and I believe finding out that Dean trusted "another Angel" over his brother is going to be a crushing, emotional blow to Sam.
I don't see this as not trusting Sam as opposed to knowing Sam and knowing that having an angel all up inside him is not going to make him happy. I don't think it's that Dean's trusting Zeke over Sam - actually I very much doubt Dean fully trusts Zeke, though we're yet to see that explored. I think Dean was desperate and threw caution to the wind and I think Dean's just scared that coming clean with Sam will mean Zeke will be ejected and Sam will die. So I see this as lies and fear over mistrust. Sam's not doing anything to make Dean not trust him, Dean just knows, or thinks he knows how Sam will react and that will kill him. All of us feel the same way as Dean, right? Sam ain't gonna be happy. Dean's scared and he'll be equally as scared of the fallout when Sam discovers the truth.
I actually think there are several components of "trust" going on with hiding Zeke from Sam. Dean doesn't "trust" Sam to make the decision that Dean wants him to make i.e. allowing Zeke to possess him until he is healed. In this regard Dean is putting his judgement above Sam's and is giving the message that Sam can't be trusted to make decisions about his own body because will inevitably be WRONG, so Dean has to make those decisions.

The second part is that the WAY Dean is keeping Zeke a secret is sending an unintended message to Sam that Sam isn't reliable. Sam goes on a hunt. Sam gets "knocked out" when in reality Zeke is taking over. Sam can easily see this as him not being strong enough or well enough to be hunting. Dean is telling Sam that on all these hunts, Sam has failed physically, while Dean is able to destroy three Demons without help. Dean is able to talk a Reaper into letting Cas live. What Sam experiences is that he is still failing Dean. Also, since Dean isn't sure when or if Zeke has taken over Dean does things like asking Sam if SAM actually came up with good idea to track angels and keep Cas safe. Again, the implication is that Sam isn't smart enough to do that. Sam was basically suicidal after believing that he lets Dean down, that he isn't good enough. By hiding Zeke, the kinds of lies Dean tells make it look as if Sam is STILL letting Dean down and not being good enough. So even if Dean does trust Sam, the message Sam gets is that Sam is still untrustworthy physically as well as mentally.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-10-31 18:01
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The second part is that the WAY Dean is keeping Zeke a secret is sending an unintended message to Sam that Sam isn't reliable. Sam goes on a hunt. Sam gets "knocked out" when in reality Zeke is taking over. Sam can easily see this as him not being strong enough or well enough to be hunting. Dean is telling Sam that on all these hunts, Sam has failed physically, while Dean is able to destroy three Demons without help. Dean is able to talk a Reaper into letting Cas live. What Sam experiences is that he is still failing Dean. Also, since Dean isn't sure when or if Zeke has taken over Dean does things like asking Sam if SAM actually came up with good idea to track angels and keep Cas safe. Again, the implication is that Sam isn't smart enough to do that. Sam was basically suicidal after believing that he lets Dean down, that he isn't good enough. By hiding Zeke, the kinds of lies Dean tells make it look as if Sam is STILL letting Dean down and not being good enough. So even if Dean does trust Sam, the message Sam gets is that Sam is still untrustworthy physically as well as mentally.
I think this is definitely a bigger issue, though I'm not seeing any signs of this yet. But Sam's perception of what is going on could be affecting his perception of himself and how his brother sees him... Back to before the moment in the church... None of us want that.

But I see the not trusting Sam about allowing Zeke to heal him thing, as purely fear. Dean knows Sam's past history with this kind of thing. I don't think he's not trusting Sam to make the right decision rather than being terrified that he may make the decision Dean doesn't want him to, which Sam may feel is the right decision for him. Everything in Dean's face, the way he's interacting with Sam, his responses are coming from fear of being found out - because he's scared he will lose Sam through death, or lose Sam through anger and their history would be influencing both of those reactions. But then again, Sam always forgives Dean and I wish Dean would remember that too. But fear is a terribly strong emotion and losing Sam, however that happens is Dean's greatest fear.
KimJ
# KimJ 2013-10-31 18:37
Lots of feels for this episode. I love Charlie. I love that Show has a few kickass female characters in the repertoire right now. I loved the little insights into how Sam feels.

I don't like Dean lying to Sam, and I think he's such a sloppy liar because, deep down, he wants Sam to know the truth even though he knows he has to lie. It's very reluctant lying.

Loved the way the fit the Oz story into Supernatural canon. The perfect backdrop for a Charlie story. I do hope that one day soon Charlie comes knocking at the door to be let back into the real world. But she'll come back a well-trained hunter, thanks to Dorothy's tuition.

Mucho Kudos to Ryan, Adam, Werner, Rikin and ALL the VFX team. Their work was trying amazing!

This ep was in the works at the time VanCon was on. Day 8 was the Monday after Vancon. Good for those of us at Vancon because it meant Felicia was a last minute guest. On the Thursday Location Tour we apparently drove past at least one location for the ep without us knowing it.

Also at VanCon, Jared told those of us in his M&G that we would see two more versions of Sam this season. He was bursting to tell us more but couldn't. Now we've seen those two versions of possessed Sam, and in the one episode! Zeke and the Witch's spell.

All in all, a great set up for the next few eps. Though I am a bit disappointed we have to wait an extra week to see Kevin Parks' next directorial outing.
Joelene
# Joelene 2013-10-31 20:43
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Very enjoyable review - thank-you.

I'm not a fan of Dean sending Sam away in favor of Zeke either, though I do understand why he does it. Like you, I don't think Sam is going to have as much of a problem with being possessed by an Angel, as he's going to have with all the lies, and distrust.

At the end of last season we learned just how important Dean's trust is to Sam, and although Dean assured Sam that he's always been, and always will be the most important person in his life, Dean never actually voiced his trust in Sam, and I believe finding out that Dean trusted "another Angel" over his brother is going to be a crushing, emotional blow to Sam.

I don't say that to bash on Dean; I actually understand Dean's reluctance to trust that Sam will happily leave Zeke in place were Sam to learn of the internal being keeping him alive - it's a sticky situation Dean finds himself in, and I feel for both brothers.

As for Zeke - I kinda think he's never going to want to leave Sam, which is all kinds of creepy, but it could be an awesome thing to watch.
Jolene, I think you have hit the nail on the head with some concerns i have. The FANS know Sam wont have a problem with the possession as much as he will with the lies. If the FANS know this then why doesn't DEAN...the guy who keeps claiming he knows Sam so well. Maybe SweetonDean or someone else can explain this for me: Why doesn't Dean just sit Sam down and tell him the truth? I mean Sam basically gave consent while comotose. "There aint no me if there aint no you" is powerful stuff.

If Dean did another version of that sentiment now in a talk I can't see Sam being angry cause we KNOW sam feels the same way. And i geuss this is why I'm having a difficult time scraping up sympathy for Dean.

"You were dying...on life support. I was desperate. I had a plan. Angel mind melded us. You said yes. Angel promises blah blah....Castiel vouches for him...here talk to cas.

Zeke lets Sam remember the unconcious state, him saying yes. He is currently alive...and glad to be alive. Talks to Zeke. "Thank you Dean." HUG. "Thank you for telling me the truth. Its not ideal situation but when have the boys ever been in an ideal situation?

I'm worried if Zeke ever decides to take a teleport trip with Sams body. And after everything with Jimmy novak i worry most about Zeke 'absorbing' Sam. Thats what i worry most about with this storyline...losing Sam.

And for the first time ever in the series i think its entirely possible that while Jared will still be with us...we'll lose Sam.
Hi amyh, I think you're right - we may indeed lose Sam to Zeek, and as heartless as it sounds, I'm actually looking forward to that scenario playing out, but that's only because I don't see Zeke winning in the end thanks in large part, I'm sure, to Dean, who will do whatever is necessary to expel Zeke and get his brother back.
E
# E 2013-10-31 20:58
Ah, Sweetondean, you're lovely reviews are so fun and optimistic. I wish I liked the episode as much as I liked your review. Alas! This one just didn't do it for me, I'm afraid. I went into detail (extensively! :oops: ) as to what was a miss for me on another thread, so I won't repeat myself. In the words of Inigo Montoya: "let me explain… no it is too much, let me sum up." I wanted a greater connection from the Oz concept to the story lines we are currently dealing with in canon; more of a connection between what Dorothy went through as a mirror for the plight of the Winchesters. All of the best comic and "out there" episodes like Changing Channels or The French Mistake have had this connection that makes them interesting on another level and ended up being more about the Winchesters than anything else even though the premise of the plot was actually NOT about them. I just didn't feel that this was the case in this episode; at least not as much as I would have liked. I found this one-off episode a little too disconnected and fanciful for my tastes: too much fantasy, too much suspension of disbelief. The good news is that I feel that, even though not my cup of tea, that this eppie was essentially well written, concise and nicely free of contradictory canon and errors: after last week it was a refreshing change. I guess I can't really hold the episode responsible for it being outside the bounds of my personal taste, so I'll just say that it was a well crafted episode that I didn't care for and which probably won't be on my re-watch list.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-10-31 21:06
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Hi amyh, I think you're right - we may indeed lose Sam to Zeek, and as heartless as it sounds, I'm actually looking forward to that scenario playing out, but that's only because I don't see Zeke winning in the end thanks in large part, I'm sure, to Dean, who will do whatever is necessary to expel Zeke and get his brother back.
I don't believe we will ever lose Sam. He is one half of this epic story. He's not going anywhere. There is no Supernatural without Sam AND Dean. And like you, I think Dean would do absolutely whatever to ensure that doesn't happen and sends Zeke to the outfield. He'd do anything to get Sam back. That's how we got in this bother in the first place! :cry:
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-10-31 21:10
thank you sweetondean for another beautiful review. i must say i'm in total agreement with you. i really enjoyed this episode, it was a nice break from all the angel/demon stuff that this season will focus heavily on. a little charlie goes a long long way...all the way to oz apparently. :D
i'm in total agreement about sam and dean's feelings about "home". you know once upon a time, sam opened up to sarah about why he didn't want to pursue a relationship with her. he told her it was because he liked her. he didn't want to be with her because he believed that he was the reason all the women he loved died and he didn't want that for her. so the conversation he had with both dorothy and dean regarding his attitude towards having a home made perfect sense. he's gunshy. he's afraid that if he finds happiness and comfort in the bunker, if he says it out loud it'll be taken from him. if he only allows himself to feel the bunker as a place of work, then perhaps he'll get to keep it. it's not that sam doesn't want or desire a place he calls home, i think he's just afraid to admit that he wants it or feels it because if he does he'll lose it. i think loss has affected sam in a deep emotional way. i think that's why he regards his friends as friends instead of as family the way dean does. jmo of course.
i also agree with you on sam's inevitable anger at dean being about the lying and not so much the angel thing. not that the angel thing won't bother him, but i do see sam understanding dean using zeke to save him. the lying however will be the thing that angers sam. but it's the act of lying itself that i think sam will be mad at and i don't think sam will see it as an issue of distrust. now if this had happened before sacrifice, then i would concede that sam would mispercieve dean's actions as his lack of trust in sam. i believe sacrifice changed all that. the great escapist and sacrifice had sam open up to dean in a way he never had before. sure sam and dean had moments where they talked about their feelings, but they never really talked to ea. other about how they percieved themselves in their brother's eyes. it took a very emotionally and physically weakened state for sam to just lay it all out there for his brother, simply because he didn't have the strength to keep it in any longer. and that exchange between the boys, that very long in coming unwinchesterlik e exchange, cleared up the long misperceived notions that ea. one thought the other had of them. sam no longer feels like a failure that his brother can't trust. i believe when sam finds out dean's been lying, he won't do what he's done in the past and perceive it as his brother's distrust in him. i believe this time sam will see it for what it truly is..dean lied to sam simply because he was afraid if he didn't sam would eject zeke and he would die. fear is what drove dean to his decisions not lack of trust. i also feel that where the boys are now in their relationship, they won't just sweep it under the rug as in the past. this time they will deal with it head on. honestly. because after that talk in the church, i really don't see them feeling the need to feel like they can't talk to ea. other. so i think this time will be different in the way the situation is handled than how it might have been handled years ago. this time i believe they will deal with it head on and then move on.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-10-31 21:12
supernatural has produced instilled paranoia in this fandom. :D i mean, in all honesty, zeke hasn't done anything dubious but he's automatically seen as the bad guy simply because he's an angel. i mean if zeke were brought to court and was to be judge by a jury, he's really committed no crime at all .
he answered a call from dean without knowing what he'd have to do. he went simply based on dean's promise of returning the favor.
he's been open and honest(as far as we know) about his condition and told dean that he could heal sam from the inside while he himself heals. he gave dean the scoop and dean made the final decision.
he saved sam's life. he saved cas. he was honest about being at half strength and saving charlie would weaken him. dean chose saving charlie. zeke also told dean that he didn't want to be in sam any longer than necessary.
now granted he's afraid of bart's faction specifically and now dean knows it because cas couldn't stay. zeke didn't lie. cas could bring the angels down on them and zeke who isn't strong enough to fight them so sam could die as well as he.
basically zeke's been pretty open to dean. the only thing dean doesn't know and hasn't asked is why zeke is so afraid of the angels, but that doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy. as of now he's simply on the run.
i just don't think zeke is the enemy. the board has been set up and it seems there are plenty of bad guys..abbadon, bart and his angels, crowley. there aren't any allies for the boys. no offense but garth is mia, charlie is in oz, kevin is a kid, and cas is well, a target. the boys have noone. i just think zeke is an ally. at least as of now. i'm going to see how next week goes...to see if i change my stance on that. ;-)
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-10-31 21:21
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supernatural has produced instilled paranoia in this fandom. :D
This is exactly right nappi815!! This is the only reason I'm feeling mistrustful of Zeke...because this show has screwed with my head and my emotions too many times! :P

I agree, Zeke has done nothing and at this stage I have no reason not to believe in him and see him as a good guy.... Everything is crossed for this outcome, for the Winchesters and for us!
st50
# st50 2013-10-31 21:34
I've had to take a few days to figure out how I feel about this episode. First off, I'll say it didn't work for me. I didn't care for the concept of making Oz an alternate reality when I first heard a spoiler, and I still don't like it after seeing the episode. The Supernatural world was (weirdly) based in our world, our reality - fighting the stuff of nightmares. The Wizard of Oz - imho - was never the stuff of nightmares, it was a work of fiction. A fun read. A movie classic. Not urban legends, not classic mythology or religion, not "the monster under the bed" - simply Fantasy. Dorothy's hallucination.. ... A world that was never supposed to exist in actuality.

I hate that Supernatural seems to be trying to make these worlds 'real'. It makes the whole series take a very large jump into Fantasy, loosens their grip on our world, and makes Sam and Dean themselves much less "real" to me. :sad:

That said, the interactions between Sam and Dean are really fascinating, and I'm really curious about how they're going to resolve it all.

My biggest issue with Cas has been that he's the "instant fix" that takes away the immediacy, the fear of all that they face. Why worry when you've got an angel in your pocket? So Cas becomes human.... And perhaps things are scary again for Sam and Dean.......Uh,. .. Nope. Suddenly, there's Zeke. Now, instead of Cas, Zeke's the miracle cure, the instant fix, the thing that stands between the Winchesters and Death. Twice. Two episodes, back to back. (A little overkill there, writers?)

Sam is beginning to question Dean, finally, but if that becomes an issue, I think that can be easily solved by another Zeke-mind-wipe. Why let Sam worry? Why let Dean stress? Let's let Dean call out Zeke when necessary. Sam doesn't need to know. Sam's memories are easily controlled. Yikes. I don't see the way out of this one, but I'm not a writer.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-10-31 21:35
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i believe sacrifice changed all that. the great escapist and sacrifice had sam open up to dean in a way he never had before. sure sam and dean had moments where they talked about their feelings, but they never really talked to ea. other about how they percieved themselves in their brother's eyes.
You may be right. The thing is, Sam's been here before. Dean told him he trusted him and would let him go in Swan Song. He told him he shouldn't blame himself for anything Sam did when he was soulless. Then he turns around and makes it clear that he has never forgiven Sam for either of those things. This didn't only happen in Southern Comfort, Dean repeated them in Sacrifice as things Sam needed to repent for. And Dean didn't tell Sam he trusted him in Sacrifice. He said a lot had happened but he didn't want Sam to die, not exactly anything to make Sam think that Dean trusts him or forgives him. So Sam can only see Dean's actions because Dean has said the words before and they turned out to be not true.

Quote:
supernatural has produced instilled paranoia in this fandom. :D i mean, in all honesty, zeke hasn't done anything dubious but he's automatically seen as the bad guy simply because he's an angel
I'm paranoid but in the totally opposite direction. The one thing I am sure of is that Dean will NEVER be allowed to be straight out 100% wrong when trusting a supernatural creature, just as Sam will NEVER be allowed to be right about trusting one. In the end, Sam will have to defer to Dean's judgements forever. I have no doubt that Zeke will be pure and true blue.
leah FFFC
# leah FFFC 2013-11-01 00:09
Did Sam not trust Lenore and eventually bring Dean around to his viewpoint? Her eventual death had nothing to do with their willingness to trust her. The jury is still out on the controversial Amy mess. Was Dean right to kill her? I don't think the show was saying that Dean was "right" to not trust Sam's judgement. Not to mention lying to Sam and going behind his back. He came off looking pretty cold on that one. Yeah, Benny was trying to be good but you could see that he would eventually give in to his
urges (did, if you take deleted scenes into acct). I believe they will explore this further and he will be shown to be unable resist feeding on humans. I don't think he was supposed to be "good" just a battlefield friend of Dean's that he felt had earned the right to try and live topside and struggled the whole time he was here. He was never presented as a "perfect snowflake" Sam was not wrong to question that and Dean was not wrong to try and give him a chance. Things are rarely black and white in this show. Dean has been right AND wrong. So has Sam.
leah FFFC
# leah FFFC 2013-11-01 00:15
I am not going to root for Ezekiel to be bad so that Dean can be wrong.
leah FFFC
# leah FFFC 2013-11-01 00:40
What about the ghost in Roadkill? Sam was willing to trust her against Dean's better judgement and it turned out Sam was right.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-01 00:58
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I am not going to root for Ezekiel to be bad so that Dean can be wrong.
I'm with you, leah. Both the brothers are beautifully flawed, both make mistakes, that's what makes them so human. That's why most of us love them both so completely.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-11-01 01:27
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Did Sam not trust Lenore and eventually bring Dean around to his viewpoint? Her eventual death had nothing to do with their willingness to trust her. The jury is still out on the controversial Amy mess. Was Dean right to kill her? I don't think the show was saying that Dean was "right" to not trust Sam's judgement. Not to mention lying to Sam and going behind his back. He came off looking pretty cold on that one. Yeah, Benny was trying to be good but you could see that he would eventually give in to his
urges (did, if you take deleted scenes into acct). I believe they will explore this further and he will be shown to be unable resist feeding on humans. I don't think he was supposed to be "good" just a battlefield friend of Dean's that he felt had earned the right to try and live topside and struggled the whole time he was here. He was never presented as a "perfect snowflake" Sam was not wrong to question that and Dean was not wrong to try and give him a chance. Things are rarely black and white in this show. Dean has been right AND wrong. So has Sam.
Lenore. To me it made all the difference in the world. If Sam had listened to Dean all the people Lenore and her entire family killed would not have died. Yes Eve influenced them, but if Sam doesn't get cut a break for being addicted when he let Lucifer out, then outside influences don't count, IMHO. For a long time Lenore was my one beacon proving Sam's judgement could be trusted and then the show deliberately let us know that in the end, it couldn't.

Amy. Sam told Dean he was probably right and there has never been anything to contradict that.

Molly from Roadkill. Frankly Sam's way was the only way to get rid of her. Her body had been cremated. There were no bones to torch. Trusting her to move on was the only choice. I will give Sam some points for being right, but I never felt there was a strong dispute between Sam and Dean over her.

Benny. I believe they cut scenes or leave them in for a reason. In the end, we were never shown anything to indicate that Benny had fallen off the wagon. What we were shown was that Benny was willing to commit suicide to save Sam, the guy who didn't trust him and to keep from falling off the wagon. Noble and pure to the end.

I understand you don't want Zeke to be bad to make Dean look bad. I heard the same thing with Benny and guess what, Benny stayed good to the end, so as I said, I'm pretty sure that Zeke will be all sweetness and light and Sam will eventually look like a jerk for daring to want to control his own body and not be lied to by Dean. If it makes me a terrible person to just once see Dean be utterly completely wrong, then I'm a terrible person. Frankly, I would prefer it if Sam trusted a monster, Dean didn't and that monster came back several times and stayed good, like Benny, not be good one episode and then revert to form the next time we see them, like Lenore. I find it annoying that Meg, who killed Pastor Jim and Caleb, helped kidnap John, abused Sam by possessing him, murdered Jo and Ellen suddenly gets the Dean Seal of Approval and becomes the only good demon in the world, ever. Sam questions Dean as to whether they can trust Meg with Cas, Dean says sure, why not and by God, Meg is as trustworthy as the day is long. Ruby spends a year saving Sam and for a while Dean, protecting Anna, withstanding torture by Alistair to protect Anna and then before Dean knows about the demon blood, Dean announces that he doesn't trust Ruby and how dare Sam keep meeting her and by God Ruby turns out to be the worst demon ever. I personally am sick of Dean the all knowing judge of good and bad, but I suspect it really isn't going to change.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-01 01:47
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. Sam questions Dean as to whether they can trust Meg with Cas, Dean says sure, why not and by God, Meg is as trustworthy as the day is long.
Actually, Dean didn't say "sure, why not". The conversation went like this:

SAM
Look, Dean, this whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing feels kind of like a demon deal.


DEAN
It's not a deal. It's –


SAM
It's what?


DEAN
Mutually assured destruction. Look, man, I get it. She's not our friend. We don't even have friends. All our friends are dead.


And now, I'm opting out.
dashnjo
# dashnjo 2013-11-01 03:10
Great recap! I totally agree that I don't think Sam will have a problem with the angel possession thing nearly as much as the lying. He couldn't even tell Cas and Sam the same lie ... yeah, Sam would've questioned why Dean sent him away to no end but would have at least gone along with it even if he didn't agree. Now he has to hope they don't talk because Sam will most likely ask Cas why he felt he needed to leave and Cas will be like "um, Dean made me" and they'll both realize they're being lied to. Ugh! The worst part is I get why Dean is doing it and I feel bad for him too. I am hoping they're going somewhere with Dean leaning on Ezekiel so much and what that's gonna cost in the long run though ... although he didn't ask him to save Cas, Zeke just did it (thanks for that) but now that Dean knows he'll fix things I'm afraid it might get out of hand.

I really hope it's not the last we see of Charlie because I love the way the three of them interact so much! She definitely brings some levity to the table and love watching how Dean is so protective of her!

Although I will admit one of the things that had me giggling to no end was the fact that Sam doesn't even trust Crowley with a pen, and brought him a crayon to write with! I do hope they let him out of the dungeon eventually though ...
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-01 04:18
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I am not going to root for Ezekiel to be bad so that Dean can be wrong.
The only one I am rooting for is Sam in all of this. Dean made his decision and now uses Ezekiel when he feels like it without stopping to think of the toll it could be taking on Sam.

I believe Ezekiel will be good simply because whether we like it or not there is a pattern that has emerged that when Sam trusts something Supernatural it is the wrong idea and when Dean does the outcome is different. It isnt something I like but it is there .
leah FFFC
# leah FFFC 2013-11-01 07:24
#34 percysowner- Actually I don't care if Ezekiel turns out to be right or wrong. I am not concerned about whether Dean is shown to be wrong. That really doesn't bother me. It didn't bother me that Benny might have not been a good idea either. My point was I won't root for it so that some fans can get some kind of satisfaction from it. Any more than I would be hoping for something negative to happen to Sam's character to appeased some other fans. I have fond feelings for both characters. Despite the mistakes they both make.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-11-01 07:38
i was never really sure about dean's rant in sc and that is a question i wish i or someone would ask at a con. on the surface it seemed like dean was laundry listing every mistake sam made, but when i looked deeper at it, it was also about dean's current mistakes. it's like well you did this sam so it's ok that i brought a monster out into the real world and just let him go without even keeping an eye on him. it's ok that i went against everything i believe in. i believe dean never trusted benny and that although he wanted him to be the exception to his very own monster rule (see speech he gave amy before he killed her) benny in fact was not. but dean felt he owed benny and i always thought because spn instilled that paranoia in me, that's what benny wanted and needed. but in this case benny admitted it from the start, so i never thought me to be that paranoid when it came to benny. he gave me a reason to distrust him from the start, zeke, so far, has not. so in this case, innocent until proven guilty. :D also his line about sam leaving him in purgatory, well in the very next eppy, dean declared to cas, i didn't leave you ... so it seemed to me, that dean was projecting onto sam his own issue of guilt and anger regarding how was feeling about what he believed he did to cas. as for sacrifice, i saw dean's list more of the only things sam had done that had disastrous results and made sam feel guilty about it even though alot of it wasn't sam's fault at all. but then again, i do see it as dean seeing these things as crimes against him, but here is my thinking and it's jmo of course...
sam's drinking db ended up with him in the cage and thus leaving dean alone. not only alone, but having to go on due to a promise he made, knowing ea. and every day his brother was being tortured and he couldn't stop it.
sam being souless was not his fault but souless sam commited dubious acts that sam feels responsible for leaving him with the burden of atonement. not to mention the return of his soul which eventually led to sam's mental break and near death. again, affecting dean by almost losing his brother, both mentally and physically.
then sam believing dean died. not a crime at all. but the way i think dean looks at it and again, it's jmo, dean told benny and sam i think, that purgatory was pure. dean was in his element. he killed without question or guilt ..very black and white. in a way, dean liked purgatory. and i think that's what scared dean the most. that he liked it. that he somehow fit, possibly because dean has so often said that he wasn't someone you'd want at your dinner table. i just think that had to do with his reaction towards sam. because sam didn't know he was alive, dean ended up staying in purgatory and as ea. day went by, dean grew accustomed to it. much like repeat offenders who want to go back to jail because it's where they feel the most at home. i just think it's possible that dean's anger at sam was due to the fact that he felt natural being in purgatory, more than he should have...i hope i'm making sense. ...again...that 's just how i view it. ;-)
ThisOldBag
# ThisOldBag 2013-11-01 09:39
I am looking forward to the rest of this young season, based upon the first four episodes being excellent. This one was fun. Yes, it was light weight but there were some hints to what's to come.
I also think Sam will be OK with the possession part, especially if he remembers that he made the choice (I hope he does). He was searching for the light and was ready to give up when Dean gave him another chance. Sam grabbed without even asking.
The lies may be perceived by Sam to be mis-trust, but more than that, the real pain might be the lack of respect. Dean has not respected Sam's right to choose, this "free-will" is very important to both Sam and Dean and this may be the focus when Sam finds out. But I am happy to wait and see.
I really hope Sam remembers everything, in fact I kinda hope he finds out but keeps knowing to himself for awhile, that would be fun. Whatever happens, I'm gonna have fun with it!
I also agree with comments that show went from Cas-angel to Zeke as a cure all, seems odd and I do miss the passion that comes from not having a magic fix for everything. But I guess we'll see how that plays out.
Back to Oz, I had fun with the story and interactions, but I really wanted to see Dorothy as a "hunter" and not as a nice clean cut finely manicured hero type. I loved the wicked witch...she was wicked. And, of course Crowley...I hope he's kept locked in the bunker for a while more, I like seeing them interact on Winchester terms. Can't wait to see what that computer will do for them!
I think it says something about a show when I'm already dreading the Holiday break!
Ale
# Ale 2013-11-01 10:41
I've had to take a few days to figure out how I feel about this episode. First off, I'll say it didn't work for me. I didn't care for the concept of making Oz an alternate reality when I first heard a spoiler, and I still don't like it after seeing the episode. The Supernatural world was (weirdly) based in our world, our reality - fighting the stuff of nightmares. The Wizard of Oz - imho - was never the stuff of nightmares, it was a work of fiction. A fun read. A movie classic. Not urban legends, not classic mythology or religion, not "the monster under the bed" - simply Fantasy. Dorothy's hallucination.. ... A world that was never supposed to exist in actuality.

I hate that Supernatural seems to be trying to make these worlds 'real'. It makes the whole series take a very large jump into Fantasy, loosens their grip on our world, and makes Sam and Dean themselves much less "real" to me. :sad:

That said, the interactions between Sam and Dean are really fascinating, and I'm really curious about how they're going to resolve it all.quote]

This is exactly how I feel. Those alternatives worlds started with BE in Clap your Hands. I love BE, it was a great, well written, fun episode but I always skip it in my rewatches just because fairy land doesn't go with my understanding of SPN, for the reasons you put so well.

Robbie Thompson picked up form there in "LARP" and it is the ONLY reason I don't enjoy the episode as much as I should. Now he uped the game with Oz. It is still a well writen episode, but I pray to Chuck he doesn't keep in those lines because I will be forced to ignore his episodes, which is a shame, because I really like the way he writes.

My version of this episode: Sam found the computer, they called Charlie, they had a great night with Game of Thrones and popcorn in Sam's room, they talked to themselves about the meaning of home and about the SPN books, Dean said "Zeke, give me remote", Sam went "Who is Zeke?", Dean gave a lame excuse, Charlie fixed the computer and returned to her day job. The end.

Ah, maybe Zeke got weaker for helping Dean clean the kitchen. :lol:
Ale
# Ale 2013-11-01 11:12
Quote:
Quote:
Did Sam not trust Lenore and eventually bring Dean around to his viewpoint? Her eventual death had nothing to do with their willingness to trust her. The jury is still out on the controversial Amy mess. Was Dean right to kill her? I don't think the show was saying that Dean was "right" to not trust Sam's judgement. Not to mention lying to Sam and going behind his back. He came off looking pretty cold on that one. Yeah, Benny was trying to be good but you could see that he would eventually give in to his
urges (did, if you take deleted scenes into acct). I believe they will explore this further and he will be shown to be unable resist feeding on humans. I don't think he was supposed to be "good" just a battlefield friend of Dean's that he felt had earned the right to try and live topside and struggled the whole time he was here. He was never presented as a "perfect snowflake" Sam was not wrong to question that and Dean was not wrong to try and give him a chance. Things are rarely black and white in this show. Dean has been right AND wrong. So has Sam.
Lenore. To me it made all the difference in the world. If Sam had listened to Dean all the people Lenore and her entire family killed would not have died. Yes Eve influenced them, but if Sam doesn't get cut a break for being addicted when he let Lucifer out, then outside influences don't count, IMHO. For a long time Lenore was my one beacon proving Sam's judgement could be trusted and then the show deliberately let us know that in the end, it couldn't.

Amy. Sam told Dean he was probably right and there has never been anything to contradict that.

Molly from Roadkill. Frankly Sam's way was the only way to get rid of her. Her body had been cremated. There were no bones to torch. Trusting her to move on was the only choice. I will give Sam some points for being right, but I never felt there was a strong dispute between Sam and Dean over her.

Benny. I believe they cut scenes or leave them in for a reason. In the end, we were never shown anything to indicate that Benny had fallen off the wagon. What we were shown was that Benny was willing to commit suicide to save Sam, the guy who didn't trust him and to keep from falling off the wagon. Noble and pure to the end..
This is a controversial topic. I believe that, instead of keeping scores, the point is that Dean was always the one to mistrust supernatural beings and Sam was always the one who believes some should be given a chance. Black and white Dean, Gray Sam. Therefore, creatures like Lenore, Amy, Dean's daughter, the werewolf girl and Benny were supposed to be gray - mainly good, but subject to flaws.

Sam influenced Dean in this subject, but Sam's vision of SPN creatures went down the drain with the whole Ruby fiasco. That is why he changed gears and was more willing to follow Dean's black and white view in the subject (Crowley, Amy, Benny).

On the other hand, the ONLY SPN creature Dean fully trusted was Cas. And that didn't go well in ¨S06, reason why Dean returned to the ' a monster is always a monter' mentality. Cas is no snow white, he is flawed as anyone.

S08 correct this destructive view again with Benny story, for both Sam and Dean. What I take from that is that, actually, Sam was the right one from the begining. It is better, and healthier, to give second chances than to be a radical intolerant.

It is not about keeping scores. It is about what they learned by their experiences.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-01 16:01
Quote:

It is not about keeping scores. It is about what they learned by their experiences.
Yes. Nicely put.

Oh and, on the worrying about Zeke being a fix all thing. I'm with everyone on that. That's always been my problem with Cass. How do you have an angel in your pocket and still feel like the Winchesters are in real danger - let alone how constant resurrection diminishes the concept of death.

But I think this whole Zeke thing is different. This is about Dean getting himself in deeper and deeper, making mistakes like calling out "Zeke" while Sam is concious and the lies upon lies that he's having to tell to cover his pretty butt.

I don't think this is about having another all powerful ally, this is about the situation Dean has put the brothers in, getting out of his control. At least that's how I'm seeing it and hope it is rolling out.
kristin
# kristin 2013-11-01 16:05
The longer it's been since I first watched the episode, the more I like it. I had serious issues with the wooden acting of Dorothy, and rewatching doesn't help that a bit, but other than that, it's working better for me. It definitely gets funnier and more on point over time. Especially reading through the threads and reviews like these.

I've seen comments about how this doesn't tie into the arc of the season, or the stuff going on with the boys, but I actually think it does, and I think SoD sums it up beautifully in her review.

Something that occurred to me when I was reading this review and comments is the idea that Dean finds the MoL lair safe. It's "warded against all evil." And yet here we have evil chasing the boys, possessing the boys, they aren't safe here after all. I just wonder if that's significant, or if the writers/showrun ners just wanted to feature Charlie, the Wizard of Oz idea, and the MoL features like the garage and kitchen, and put them all together. I think it's significant because they used the language in the opener and that is often a huge clue to the episode's meaning and how it fits in the grand season arc.

If the Witch can defile the safety of the lair, can angels? And if Ezekiel can be *in* the lair, and can use his powers in the lair to save Charlie, can other angels? If Cas has to leave because he's jeopardizing Ezekiel's safety, then maybe it isn't "angel proof".

It seems like the MoL are meant to have known about the angels - the table lit up because they all fell. I hope there is a connection in all of this - it seems like it could go either way. And my head hurts trying to figure it all out. :-)
magichappening
# magichappening 2013-11-01 18:37
Thx sweetonDean! Agree with 99% of what you said. Loved:
• The return of Charlie, her getting her Quest and Felicia’s hair :)
• “He stared at the angel tablet and repeated the word ‘falafel’ for the entire ride.” Ha!
• The use of B&W flashbacks – esp. fade from 1935 to Dean in present-day
• MOL garage with cool, green car and kitchen - plus Dean’s complaint he had just cleaned it :)
• The reinvention of Dorothy Gale – I agree the actress sometimes looked a little out of her depth, but think this was not helped in places by some odd directing/block ing choices (her walking towards and speaking to camera...twice! and she did not see two rather large Winchesters creep up on her in the middle of a huge garage? #No Peripheral Vision) NB. Plus, her trousers were truly heinous!
• “Pace yourself, Toto”. HA!
• The choice to simply outwait Crowley – hooRAY for no torture.
• How although the bunker is well-lit, there is nothing Season 3-esque about the lighting and Jared and Jensen look AMAZING. Kudos, M. Ladouceur.
• How the Winchesters are both Hunters AND Men of Letters. Overachievers :)
• Jared’s acting when protesting too much about not knowing BeckyWinchester 176 = perfection
• Use and abuse of the world of Oz – part of the fairy world? Cool! Plus Flying Monkeys VFX were brilliant (the Yellow Brick Road was good too, but the girls were a little TOO obviously walking slowly towards a green screen!)
• The ambiguity of the ‘There’s no place like home’ line: Sam expressing a change in his thinking or an acknowledgement of Dean’s POV, or simply unable to pass up a perfect opportunity for Winchester-esqu e Wizard of Oz snark? Or all 3?
• “Seemed kind of tacky wearing a dead woman’s shoes.” Ha!
• How Charlie changes how the Winchesters behave: had not thought of that before so thanks for pointing that out! Particularly like your comments ‘(Dean)’d let her get away with just about anything. She sees right through his crap and calls him on it ...’ and that ’...Charlie loves the Winchesters... They need that. A little validation never goes astray, especially for a duo that chronically self hate and self doubt like they do.’
• Whole Dean-Charlie conversation at end (“Am I a zombie now? Do I need to eat brains?”)
• The fact that Dean chose saving (people) Charlie and not hunting (things) the witch in his conversation with Zeke. Yay! to getting back to Season 1 clarity and damnit! for staying true to Season 9 ambiguity! (Clever writing, Master Thompson)

Plus, Charlie saved Dean’s life. There is no WAY he would not do the same for her...the way he said ‘NO!’ when realising she was dead reminded me so much of when Sam died in AHBL 2 :( ... and I LOVED the way Dean made his split-second decision here and said “ZEKE!”...*shiv er*

(Comment too long, so second half posted separately!)
magichappening
# magichappening 2013-11-01 18:37
Comment contd:

Question: Did anyone else think briefly the episode was going to be about a Leviathan when the jar of grey goop was revealed? I am spoilerphobic so was unspoiled and the goop reminded me of the Biggerson’s sandwich Dean got stoned on in Season 7!

Episode-wise I did have issues with a few things e.g. a couple of clunky directing choices as mentioned (though I LOVED Sam handing Charlie’s gun to Dean in front of Dorothy’s face – you had to be there!) and a couple of script things (Charlie not having a line when Dean said hello –felt awkward with just the wave -, would Dean have cut open the weird pod-thing in the computer room without knowing more about it?, Sam holding a gun on Crowley...?why. .., the Winchesters - Hunters Extraordinaire- have a witch running around their home and they are SURPRISED by her sneaking up behind one of them THREE – count ‘em! THREE – TIMES... and the line “Now, heel!” was truly Schwarzenegger- level terrible!), but killing the Wicked Witch with the ruby slippers was inspired and “...end of the day, it’s our story, so we get to write it” is a cool line.

And, although I was not a fan of the actor who played Peter Jenkins, I would like to nominate the jump that James Hargreaves made up two steps to get to the lab for the single most unathletic move in the history of Supernatural!

But I loved the teaser with the bizarre ‘batteries’ that the MOLs ‘plug in’ (?) and the fact that the lights are supposed to come on when the MOLs shake hands!! Hope they follow up on this :)

SweetonDean, your point that Sam is ‘unwilling... to allow himself that small level of contentment of calling the bunker home) is just too scary, because the cost could be too great’ is so sad :( Sammy hugs! But in contrast, I do love your comment about Dean: ‘Sam’s happy, Dean’s happy’ :D

NB. When Jared plays evil, he is really frightening!

Plot-wise, one thing I differ with you on though is Zeke. I have to say I don’t think he is entirely on the up-and-up. I think he’s hiding - deliberately. And sending Cas away from the bunker I think is part of that. Zeke must have done something since Cas last saw him, but I don’t know what....

...but I LOVE Jensen’s acting of Dean’s awkward lying to Sam about it all. Pure brilliance.

Finally, I loved the live tweeting by cast and crew (“It was in tents.” – ahahahaha!) and thank you to both cast and crew for the Winchesters of Oz title card SPN family shout-out - Surreal and very cool ;)

“For those about to rock, we salute you!”

YEAH!
magichappening
# magichappening 2013-11-01 18:39
Quote:
Robbie Thompson has become my favourite writer on the show,
Agreed!
BookLady
# BookLady 2013-11-01 23:24
Hurray, Sylvie! I'm a librarian, too! I loved the shout out to our profession and Felicia's excitement about it in her tweet. Thanks, Robbie!

And thanks to you, sweetondean, for your positive and enthusiastic reviews! I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

I'm looking forward to the rest of this season, but I do dread the upcoming mid-season break a little bit based on what Jensen and Jared said at the Chicago Convention. It looks to be another nail-biting cliffhanger. Yikes!
magichappening
# magichappening 2013-11-02 07:23
Quote:
Well, the Wicked Witch was able to turn into gree smoke and travel the Bunker through the vents. Hard to track something like that.
Tis a good point, Mick :-)
kristin
# kristin 2013-11-02 14:03
One thing I really loved was Sam backlit as he went into Crawley's dungeon to give him the crayon. It was a nod to the angel wing moment and served as a visual reminder that Sam's not just Sam anymore. Beautiful and even tied in to the story.