promo002

Hello! Welcome to another spoiler-lite preview.

With only a few episodes to go until the mid-season hiatus, we’re getting to the pointy end of what has been set up as the first half of the season 9 arc…and by pointy end, I mean that jabby bit that the show is about to stab into all our hearts!

So where did we leave off…


THEN

You see… Sam was mostly dead so Dean did a deal with the angel Ezekiel to jump inside of Sam and heal him from the inside out.

And Sam doesn’t know.

And Dean’s living on borrowed time and his last nerve just waiting until it all bites him on his pretty ass. Because it will. And he knows it. As do we. 

And he kicked Castiel out of the bunker because Zeke said it was Cass or Sam.

And he feels crappy about that too.

And Cass is working in the Gas-N-Sip.

And Crowley’s in the dungeon shooting up blood.

And Kevin’s taken up drinking and country music.

And it looks like the angels might be here to stay.

And Abaddon’s raising hell in Hell.

And OH MY GOD THERE IS ONLY 3 EPISODES LEFT UNTIL THE WINTER/SUMMER BREAK!

*hold me*


NOW

I predict FEEEEEELS!


This week’s episode is a ghost hunt come flashback episode where we get to see a little bit of Winchester history.

Here’s the synopsis:


“Bad Boys”

YOUNG DEAN --- Dean gets a call from an old friend named Sonny (guest star Blake Gibbons) asking for help with a ghost.  Sonny runs a home for delinquent boys, and Dean was sent there for stealing food when he was younger.  Sam is stunned he never knew this about his brother and asks for more information, but Dean dodges his questions.  Another murder occurs while Sam and Dean are at the house, so they scramble to find the culprit before anyone else dies.  Meanwhile, Dean looks up an old girlfriend (guest star Erin Karpluk) and recalls his time at the house.  Kevin Parks directed the episode written by Adam Glass (905).

promo011

I love the flashback episodes and I have to admit, I’m pretty damn excited about the concept of this one…yes…obviously.

This is Adam Glass’ first episode for season 9 and it was supposed to run as number 5 in the season order but got moved to number 7. Why? I don’t know. It could be one of a bunch of reasons, like sweeps week and storing up the big episodes for maximum ratings impact, or it wasn’t quite ready, or within the arc of the season it plays better later…who knows. I don’t know if anyone has said the reason for the shifting of the episodes…if they have let me know in the comments.

My hopes for this episode are pretty high. I can’t wait to see a bit more family back-story and of course, more about Dean as a kid. I also like the idea that this episode may allow Sam to see another aspect of Dean that he was previously unaware of. I love it when the discover new stuff about each other. I have a feeling the reason for this episode moving is that it may show the brothers being brought even closer together via their past, before being ripped apart via their present. Maximum pain for us and them. Help!

The one thing that’s sitting at the back of my brains, nagging at me is “Defending Your Life” which was also penned by Adam Glass. I had high hopes for that episode too. High hopes that we would get into a bit of Dean’s psyche and peel away at some of those layers of guilt. But essentially, that one was a bust and didn’t deliver on what was a pretty good promise. It seemed like a huge opportunity missed. So there’s that…

But still, I’m dead excited about this week’s episode! Seriously. Like I said, I love the flashback episodes, they’re some of my favourites. I really dig getting a window into the years before we knew these guys. It’s usually very informative as to who they are now and what they’re currently dealing with. It often gives the other a different perspective and appreciation of their brother. Plus usually the flashback episodes are full of brotherly feels and brotherly feels are my absolute favourite thing!

Let’s look at the promo…


OH MY GOD! Creeeeeepy! I love this promo. It looks really scary. A good ole fashioned ghost hunt. Huzzah! Nasty spirit, people being killed by shower curtains, freaky devil kid! Eeeeee! Though who else heard 70’s porn music when they saw Sonny? Boom-chicka-wah-wah. Dude, that mo!


Okay sneak peek time


Yeah there’s the Rugaru thing. The brothers had never heard of a Rugaru before “Metamorphosis”. Actually I didn’t pick it up until everyone started talking about it. I know, I am a terrible, terrible excuse for fan. But I just don’t see the stuff half of the fans do because I’m too busy feeling my feelings, lost in the story and more often than not in a bubble of love trying to ignore the remote so I don’t rewind and pause every few minutes! Having said that…I do hope this isn’t a slip, because yeah, even I think those slips are bummer... but they don’t make me enjoy a good episode less.

I’m wondering if Dean is telling the whole story here. He seems a tad cavalier if it was such shameful secret. Though I guess now it wouldn’t be…I mean, that’s small potatoes in the scheme of things! I’m super interested to see how his secret trip to the teen joint played out. I feel like there might be more to this tale of woe. I also feel heartsick that this would happen to Dean, regardless of what he was busted for and I can totally see him being a cocky teenager thinking he could beat anyone at poker and trying to emulate his dad…but still, it makes me sad for him. 

Now as for the “And everybody’s okay with heading out to the Catskills?” line. Oh good grief! He so wants to be caught. Totally. As I’ve said before, maybe not consciously, but he’s not exactly being Mr Subtle about things and it would be way easier to have Sam confront him so he could defend himself, or at least try, rather than have to muster up the nerve to come clean, though the later would work more in his favour! Honestly. Couldn’t you just shake him sometimes? Sam’s reaction is priceless. Nice little moment there from Jared. I love his open palms in the wider shot.

promo004

This episode is directed by regualr 1st Assistant Director, Kevin Parks, AKA Parksepedia – which is another reason I wonder if the Rugaru thing might be explained, as Kevin is the font of all things Supernatural and apparently has practically a photographic memory for this stuff. He's been around since season 1 and looks after the odd numbered episodes, where as 1st AD Johnny MacCarthy looks after the even numbered episodes. So Kevin as was directing this episode, you’d think there would be a chance that he’d pick up a canon misstep.

Kevin also directed last season’s “Trial and Error” which was a pretty rockin’ episode. Though now I’m just thinking of the season 8 gag reel and Jensen pulling the mad demon faces and Kevin and the crew giggling behind the door with Jensen going “You said as much as I can do!” Oh that makes me laugh.

promo018

Also… I nearly forgot about the ex-love interest. Geesh! How could I forget the ex-love interest!  Erin Karpluk was in “Salvation” back in season 1. She was Monica, the mother of the baby Rose who was being stalked by the YED. I wonder why Dean looks up his old flame and…well…do they just chat? Does anyone remember Jared whispering in Jensen’s ear during the Nerd HQ panel about Dean possibly getting lucky, which Jensen had no clue about, because Jensen had only read a couple of episode scripts, but Jared had read 5? Hmmmm. Maybe he was just toying with our emotions...

And while I’m being shallow…if these two guys get any better looking! For goodness sake! They are positively radiant in season 9.

Sorry...as you were.

Once the CHCH promo drops I shall add it in.

I am pretty excited about this episode. I can’t help it…you all know my name right? (Not my real one; that would make no sense). So yeah, pretty damn excited. My fingers are crossed for a good payoff, a cool ghost story, great Winchestery reveals, awesome Dean moments and brother feels upon brother feels. Oh, and no Ezekiel. As much as I’m loving that story, I enjoyed having just Sam last week. Let’s have a bit more of just Sam before the s**t hits the proverbial yadda yadda yadda.

Let me know your thoughts on this one.

Enjoy the epi guys!

-sweetondean

EDIT:

Here's the CHCH promo - it focuses on the storyline of the hunt as opposed to the flashbacks, so gives us nothing new in that area.



I hope you all enjoy the ep, guys. Try and leave your preconceptions at the door. We have no clue how any of the episode threads are going to be structured, how the - Dean in a boys home/Sam at Bobby's - thing is going to play and we won't know any of that until after we've watched the episode. By all means, if it doesn't live up to what you want/need from the episode once you've seen it, go forth and judge it on that criteria, but try to allow the episode to do its thing first.

Thanks for all your great theories and comments. I hope some of your misgivings are satisfied.

Me, I'm still excited. It's new Supernatural, it's new Sam and Dean, that's exciting. 

-sweetondean




 

Comments  

digyd
# digyd 2013-11-18 14:52
I usually avoid spoilers like vamps avoid dead man's blood, but THIS one...oh this one. I've been giddy since before I saw last week's ep. I didn't watch the promos - I can't go THAT far - but I saw and know enough and woo boy! I can't wait! Is it still Monday? Darn!
digyd
# digyd 2013-11-18 14:52
I usually avoid spoilers like vamps avoid dead man's blood, but THIS one...oh this one. I've been giddy since before I saw last week's ep. I didn't watch the promos - I can't go THAT far - but I saw and know enough and woo boy! I can't wait! Is it still Monday? Darn!
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-11-18 15:23
Sweetondean - Can't believe it's up to episode 7 already - season is flying by. In regards to changing the order of episodes, other than actor availability (episodes 9.01 and 9.02 were purposely shot out of order because of this), I had read that the network will sometimes change the episode order - probably for the reasons you listed (sweeps week, ratings, etc.). And you're right, I thought that actress looked familiar from an early season.

Always enjoy these looks back at Sam and/or Dean's earlier years.

I'll wait and see on the Rugaru reference; some people were flying off the deep end about this and giving the writer a hard time. There is a plausible explanation, though; did John always fill his sons in on the details of his hunts? Maybe they learned about it/read about it after they got John's journal?
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-11-18 15:23
Sweetondean - Can't believe it's up to episode 7 already - season is flying by. In regards to changing the order of episodes, other than actor availability (episodes 9.01 and 9.02 were purposely shot out of order because of this), I had read that the network will sometimes change the episode order - probably for the reasons you listed (sweeps week, ratings, etc.). And you're right, I thought that actress looked familiar from an early season.

Always enjoy these looks back at Sam and/or Dean's earlier years.

I'll wait and see on the Rugaru reference; some people were flying off the deep end about this and giving the writer a hard time. There is a plausible explanation, though; did John always fill his sons in on the details of his hunts? Maybe they learned about it/read about it after they got John's journal?
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-11-18 16:07
I'm with you again Amy, just so overly anxious for this weeks ep but I think I say that every week. Could be cause it is true. :lol:

I did catch the Rugaru thing and thinking back on Metamorphosis, Dean said something along the lines of "that sounds made up, is that made up?" when Travis told him and Sam what Jack was. Now Dean is a damn good lier but it did appear that he did not recall a Rugaru. Could be it was a long time ago and he just forgot about it since he does state in the promo for this weeks ep that "the story became the story" and he was only 16 at the time. At that time, I'm sure what his dad was hunting was not the utmost thing on his mind since he was in a boys home and there was some romance there also, as we are about to find out about. I would like to believe there is a good explanation and not just some missed canon on the writers end. :o

I have to admit, the first glimpse we got of Sonny I thought it was Christian Kane but then realized it wasn't. Man it would be great to get him on an ep, especially since him and Jensen are good friends. I thought the love interest looked familiar so thanks for clarifying that one.

Dean, Dean, Dean! I want to just slap him sometimes myself. He should know by now these lies just don't come out well. He would be so much better off if he just fessed up and gave Sam a chance to decide to keep Zeke since he seems to be at least half way healed. We all know this is not going to go well when the sh___ does hit the fan. :eek:

This season is going way to fast for me though. :sad: I'm just enjoying it so much more than any other season and I've loved them all but this one is just over the top awesome! Thanks again Amy for a great spoiler lite preview. :-)
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-11-18 16:07
I'm with you again Amy, just so overly anxious for this weeks ep but I think I say that every week. Could be cause it is true. :lol:

I did catch the Rugaru thing and thinking back on Metamorphosis, Dean said something along the lines of "that sounds made up, is that made up?" when Travis told him and Sam what Jack was. Now Dean is a damn good lier but it did appear that he did not recall a Rugaru. Could be it was a long time ago and he just forgot about it since he does state in the promo for this weeks ep that "the story became the story" and he was only 16 at the time. At that time, I'm sure what his dad was hunting was not the utmost thing on his mind since he was in a boys home and there was some romance there also, as we are about to find out about. I would like to believe there is a good explanation and not just some missed canon on the writers end. :o

I have to admit, the first glimpse we got of Sonny I thought it was Christian Kane but then realized it wasn't. Man it would be great to get him on an ep, especially since him and Jensen are good friends. I thought the love interest looked familiar so thanks for clarifying that one.

Dean, Dean, Dean! I want to just slap him sometimes myself. He should know by now these lies just don't come out well. He would be so much better off if he just fessed up and gave Sam a chance to decide to keep Zeke since he seems to be at least half way healed. We all know this is not going to go well when the sh___ does hit the fan. :eek:

This season is going way to fast for me though. :sad: I'm just enjoying it so much more than any other season and I've loved them all but this one is just over the top awesome! Thanks again Amy for a great spoiler lite preview. :-)
Grace232
# Grace232 2013-11-18 16:23
Thanks Sweetondean. I am also very excited for this episode. A Very Supernatural Christmas and Something Wicked are 2 of my favorite episodes, so I am with you on the episodes with the brothers as kids. Isn't it Tuesday yet?
Grace232
# Grace232 2013-11-18 16:23
Thanks Sweetondean. I am also very excited for this episode. A Very Supernatural Christmas and Something Wicked are 2 of my favorite episodes, so I am with you on the episodes with the brothers as kids. Isn't it Tuesday yet?
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-18 16:26
There's got to be something going on with this ep because Glass let slip on Twitter that Sam was nine in the flashback timeline and Dean is supposed to be sixteen. That just doesn't add up since they are only four years apart in age. Glass says that we shouldn't focus on the "minutiae" and all will be explained.

As for the Rugaru, it was season four that they'd never heard of one. How could Dean know that's what John was hunting if John didn't tell him? There's got to be a time jump or something that explains the discrepancies? We'll see.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-18 16:26
There's got to be something going on with this ep because Glass let slip on Twitter that Sam was nine in the flashback timeline and Dean is supposed to be sixteen. That just doesn't add up since they are only four years apart in age. Glass says that we shouldn't focus on the "minutiae" and all will be explained.

As for the Rugaru, it was season four that they'd never heard of one. How could Dean know that's what John was hunting if John didn't tell him? There's got to be a time jump or something that explains the discrepancies? We'll see.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-18 18:18
I love the shot of Sam in the Impala. He looks like he is reaching out for Dan. The only light that is seen is Sam. You can almost surmise it is the only light that Dean sees. The only thing that matters to Dean and the only thing that binds him to his life is Sam, "there ain't no me if there ain't no you". This is why I watch the show. I really don't care about the minutiae or the one word or line. For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-18 18:18
I love the shot of Sam in the Impala. He looks like he is reaching out for Dan. The only light that is seen is Sam. You can almost surmise it is the only light that Dean sees. The only thing that matters to Dean and the only thing that binds him to his life is Sam, "there ain't no me if there ain't no you". This is why I watch the show. I really don't care about the minutiae or the one word or line. For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-18 18:19
Sorry Dean.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-18 18:19
Sorry Dean.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-18 18:20
Amen, cheryl42 :-)
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-18 18:20
Amen, cheryl42 :-)
st50
# st50 2013-11-18 19:24
#6 - Oh cheryl42! Great comment. That one brought on the feels!

I am really looking forward to this one. Love a glimpse of baby Sam and Dean!

And I really wonder what the full story is! I doubt he'd have been thrown in a reform school for a first offense of stealing food.... Curiouser and curiouser!

I'm also among those hoping the rugaru reference means something other than another slip in canon. (Even the small ones are jarring - but not total game changers for me)
st50
# st50 2013-11-18 19:24
#6 - Oh cheryl42! Great comment. That one brought on the feels!

I am really looking forward to this one. Love a glimpse of baby Sam and Dean!

And I really wonder what the full story is! I doubt he'd have been thrown in a reform school for a first offense of stealing food.... Curiouser and curiouser!

I'm also among those hoping the rugaru reference means something other than another slip in canon. (Even the small ones are jarring - but not total game changers for me)
Mick
# Mick 2013-11-18 20:00
Quoting Trucklady:
I
I did catch the Rugaru thing and thinking back on Metamorphosis, Dean said something along the lines of "that sounds made up, is that made up?" when Travis told him and Sam what Jack was. Now Dean is a damn good lier but it did appear that he did not recall a Rugaru. Could be it was a long time ago and he just forgot about it since he does state in the promo for this weeks ep that "the story became the story" and he was only 16 at the time. At that time, I'm sure what his dad was hunting was not the utmost thing on his mind since he was in a boys home and there was some romance there also, as we are about to find out about. I would like to believe there is a good explanation and not just some missed canon on the writers end. :o


I think it was a simple slip up, and honestly forgetting a single line of dialogue from 5 years ago isn't going me make me scream "you're screwing up canon."

The show has change up canon/forgotten things/retconne d plenty during the Kripke years, and people don't whinge about that stuff.
Mick
# Mick 2013-11-18 20:00
Quote:
I
I did catch the Rugaru thing and thinking back on Metamorphosis, Dean said something along the lines of "that sounds made up, is that made up?" when Travis told him and Sam what Jack was. Now Dean is a damn good lier but it did appear that he did not recall a Rugaru. Could be it was a long time ago and he just forgot about it since he does state in the promo for this weeks ep that "the story became the story" and he was only 16 at the time. At that time, I'm sure what his dad was hunting was not the utmost thing on his mind since he was in a boys home and there was some romance there also, as we are about to find out about. I would like to believe there is a good explanation and not just some missed canon on the writers end. :o
I think it was a simple slip up, and honestly forgetting a single line of dialogue from 5 years ago isn't going me make me scream "you're screwing up canon."

The show has change up canon/forgotten things/retconne d plenty during the Kripke years, and people don't whinge about that stuff.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-18 20:15
Quoting Mick:
I think it was a simple slip up, and honestly forgetting a single line of dialogue from 5 years ago isn't going me make me scream "you're screwing up canon."


I feel the same way, Mick. A good story is a good story.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-18 20:15
Quote:
I think it was a simple slip up, and honestly forgetting a single line of dialogue from 5 years ago isn't going me make me scream "you're screwing up canon."
I feel the same way, Mick. A good story is a good story.
alice
# alice 2013-11-18 20:18
To be honest, I forgot about the Rugaru thing, and I have encyclopedic knowledge of this show! I imagine everyone else had that same problem as well. I just might let that one pass for one line of dialogue.
Alice
# Alice 2013-11-18 20:18
To be honest, I forgot about the Rugaru thing, and I have encyclopedic knowledge of this show! I imagine everyone else had that same problem as well. I just might let that one pass for one line of dialogue.
E
# E 2013-11-18 20:20
Do they really send kids to reform school for stealing food?!?!? I can't image…wouldn't Dean have been arrested, fined and then released to his father? Reform school seems pretty harsh for food stealing and is usually reserved for felony crimes like Grand Theft Auto, Burglary, Assault and the like. And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.
E
# E 2013-11-18 20:20
Do they really send kids to reform school for stealing food?!?!? I can't image…wouldn't Dean have been arrested, fined and then released to his father? Reform school seems pretty harsh for food stealing and is usually reserved for felony crimes like Grand Theft Auto, Burglary, Assault and the like. And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-18 21:19
Quoting E:
Do they really send kids to reform school for stealing food?!?!? I can't image…wouldn't Dean have been arrested, fined and then released to his father? Reform school seems pretty harsh for food stealing and is usually reserved for felony crimes like Grand Theft Auto, Burglary, Assault and the like. And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.

I think there is a major twist here too E. I am not sure I am happy about it.
Anyway my theory is that the time loss between the age Sam apparently is and the age Dean said he was is that Dean got sent to a Dickens novel for 2 years... I will leave you to guess which one :P
Seriously though, the ghost story looks like it will be genuinely scary - looks like fun.
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-18 21:19
Quote:
Do they really send kids to reform school for stealing food?!?!? I can't image…wouldn't Dean have been arrested, fined and then released to his father? Reform school seems pretty harsh for food stealing and is usually reserved for felony crimes like Grand Theft Auto, Burglary, Assault and the like. And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.
I think there is a major twist here too E. I am not sure I am happy about it.
Anyway my theory is that the time loss between the age Sam apparently is and the age Dean said he was is that Dean got sent to a Dickens novel for 2 years... I will leave you to guess which one :P
Seriously though, the ghost story looks like it will be genuinely scary - looks like fun.
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-19 00:43
Quoting E:
Do they really send kids to reform school for stealing food?!?!? I can't image…wouldn't Dean have been arrested, fined and then released to his father? Reform school seems pretty harsh for food stealing and is usually reserved for felony crimes like Grand Theft Auto, Burglary, Assault and the like. And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.

Quoting E:
And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.


I'm interested too at what did Sam do during that time. Moreover when John said that Dean got lost in a hunt? Isn't that sound more dangerous than being sent to a boys home? Dean could be dead if he's lost in a hunt. Wasn't Sam worried?

Excited yet with a bad feeling with this one
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-19 00:43
Quote:
Do they really send kids to reform school for stealing food?!?!? I can't image…wouldn't Dean have been arrested, fined and then released to his father? Reform school seems pretty harsh for food stealing and is usually reserved for felony crimes like Grand Theft Auto, Burglary, Assault and the like. And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.
Quote:
And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.
I'm interested too at what did Sam do during that time. Moreover when John said that Dean got lost in a hunt? Isn't that sound more dangerous than being sent to a boys home? Dean could be dead if he's lost in a hunt. Wasn't Sam worried?

Excited yet with a bad feeling with this one
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-19 00:45
Quoting eilf:

Anyway my theory is that the time loss between the age Sam apparently is and the age Dean said he was is that Dean got sent to a Dickens novel for 2 years... I will leave you to guess which one :P
Seriously though, the ghost story looks like it will be genuinely scary - looks like fun.


Not sure if I get you here. Which 2 years?
Wasn't Dean only there for a few months?
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-19 00:45
Quote:

Anyway my theory is that the time loss between the age Sam apparently is and the age Dean said he was is that Dean got sent to a Dickens novel for 2 years... I will leave you to guess which one :P
Seriously though, the ghost story looks like it will be genuinely scary - looks like fun.
Not sure if I get you here. Which 2 years?
Wasn't Dean only there for a few months?
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-11-19 00:58
Quoting E:
Quote:
And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.
The only ways I can even come CLOSE to making this work in my mind are

1) Dean gets arrested for stealing, calls John. John comes home, can't get Dean out, takes Sam to Bobby's and tells Sam he's doing it because Dean has gone on a hunt. If that all takes about 24 hours Sam might not have noticed because by 16 Dean had started hunting and may have been gone at times. Heck, wasn't Sam about 12 when the whole Amy incident happened?

2) Dean was always on a hunt for something at the boy's school and the story was that Dean had stolen food after losing money in a card game. Sam is taken off to Bobby's at the very beginning and told that Dean is on a hunt, which is true. Dean is telling Sam that he was arrested for stealing because they are returning to the boys home and he doesn't want Zeke to come out and say anything to blow the story apart.

3) with the statements about the age disparity, something else entirely.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-11-19 00:58
Quoting E:
Quote:
And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.
The only ways I can even come CLOSE to making this work in my mind are

1) Dean gets arrested for stealing, calls John. John comes home, can't get Dean out, takes Sam to Bobby's and tells Sam he's doing it because Dean has gone on a hunt. If that all takes about 24 hours Sam might not have noticed because by 16 Dean had started hunting and may have been gone at times. Heck, wasn't Sam about 12 when the whole Amy incident happened?

2) Dean was always on a hunt for something at the boy's school and the story was that Dean had stolen food after losing money in a card game. Sam is taken off to Bobby's at the very beginning and told that Dean is on a hunt, which is true. Dean is telling Sam that he was arrested for stealing because they are returning to the boys home and he doesn't want Zeke to come out and say anything to blow the story apart.

3) with the statements about the age disparity, something else entirely.
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-11-19 01:22
Only 18 hours to go! I'm excited for every episode, but the closer we get to the break, the more nervous I get about those stabby bits. Not sure my heart can handle what's coming. More screaming at the tv to ensue.

But first, your summation of 'then' events is just brilliant! :)

The rugaru kerfuffle/mixup doesn't especially bother me. It would have to be something much more blatant than that to get me annoyed, but then I don't have the head for the kind of detail retention so many others have. There's a lot of road on that highway, and if I didn't hear about it online, I'd never know.

I've noticed that Sam is sitting down a lot. I mean, he sits on the table in front of Crowley in Ep6. When he talks to Dean on the phone, he leaves Kevin and sits down. HIs voice is strained. In the Ep7 preview, he's sitting and yawning. I love these subtle reminders that Sam is not well yet and ramps up the anxiety level over what is going to happen with Zeke. Eep!

Dean is so guarded right now and carrying this dreadful weight. After he told Cas he and Sam would handle the angels, there was a split second when his expression changed, and all that worry was so evident. Will Dean ever crack from all this pressure? It would be nice to see him have a night off from it, perhaps with an old girlfriend. Um, yeah.

Radiant is the perfect word for how these two gentlemen are looking this year, and the upcoming episode promises to have loads of 'feels'. Screaming, laughing and crying all at the same damn time is the Supernatural way.
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-11-19 01:22
Only 18 hours to go! I'm excited for every episode, but the closer we get to the break, the more nervous I get about those stabby bits. Not sure my heart can handle what's coming. More screaming at the tv to ensue.

But first, your summation of 'then' events is just brilliant! :)

The rugaru kerfuffle/mixup doesn't especially bother me. It would have to be something much more blatant than that to get me annoyed, but then I don't have the head for the kind of detail retention so many others have. There's a lot of road on that highway, and if I didn't hear about it online, I'd never know.

I've noticed that Sam is sitting down a lot. I mean, he sits on the table in front of Crowley in Ep6. When he talks to Dean on the phone, he leaves Kevin and sits down. HIs voice is strained. In the Ep7 preview, he's sitting and yawning. I love these subtle reminders that Sam is not well yet and ramps up the anxiety level over what is going to happen with Zeke. Eep!

Dean is so guarded right now and carrying this dreadful weight. After he told Cas he and Sam would handle the angels, there was a split second when his expression changed, and all that worry was so evident. Will Dean ever crack from all this pressure? It would be nice to see him have a night off from it, perhaps with an old girlfriend. Um, yeah.

Radiant is the perfect word for how these two gentlemen are looking this year, and the upcoming episode promises to have loads of 'feels'. Screaming, laughing and crying all at the same damn time is the Supernatural way.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-19 01:40
I guess we're all going to have to wait to see how it all plays out!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-19 01:40
I guess we're all going to have to wait to see how it all plays out!
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-19 06:30
Quoting percysowner:
Quoting E:
Quote:
And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.


The only ways I can even come CLOSE to making this work in my mind are

1) Dean gets arrested for stealing, calls John. John comes home, can't get Dean out, takes Sam to Bobby's and tells Sam he's doing it because Dean has gone on a hunt. If that all takes about 24 hours Sam might not have noticed because by 16 Dean had started hunting and may have been gone at times. Heck, wasn't Sam about 12 when the whole Amy incident happened?
I think at "After School Specials" Sam was 13 and when the Amy incident happened Sam looked older. Colin definitely older when they shot that scene. Sam was probably 15.

That means if Dean was 16, Sam was 12. So, he's younger than when he was at "After School Specials"
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-19 06:30
Quote:
Quoting E:
Quote:
And what did Sam do when Dean just disappeared? Didn't he notice that he had no brother rather than he had no food? It's not making a lot of sense to me. Hopefully this episode has been thought through! I am excited but nervous.
The only ways I can even come CLOSE to making this work in my mind are

1) Dean gets arrested for stealing, calls John. John comes home, can't get Dean out, takes Sam to Bobby's and tells Sam he's doing it because Dean has gone on a hunt. If that all takes about 24 hours Sam might not have noticed because by 16 Dean had started hunting and may have been gone at times. Heck, wasn't Sam about 12 when the whole Amy incident happened?
I think at "After School Specials" Sam was 13 and when the Amy incident happened Sam looked older. Colin definitely older when they shot that scene. Sam was probably 15.

That means if Dean was 16, Sam was 12. So, he's younger than when he was at "After School Specials"
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-11-19 08:05
I am really looking forward to this episode, I love when we get to see what their life was like when they were younger. Does it make me a bad person that it doesn't surprise me in the least that Dean ended up in reform school at one time in his life? :-* Losing food money in a poker game and then stealing food to make sure his little brother would have something to eat. I love these two! :cry:

And I agree with you Cheryl42.
Quote:
The only thing that matters to Dean and the only thing that binds him to his life is Sam, "there ain't no me if there ain't no you". This is why I watch the show. I really don't care about the minutiae or the one word or line. For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.
That is the reason that keeps me coming back week after week, the brotherly bond. So what if there is a canon slip up here or there, as long as it's not major, it won't change anything for me. I can't believe that we are getting so close to the hiatus already. This season sure is flying by.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-11-19 08:05
I am really looking forward to this episode, I love when we get to see what their life was like when they were younger. Does it make me a bad person that it doesn't surprise me in the least that Dean ended up in reform school at one time in his life? :-* Losing food money in a poker game and then stealing food to make sure his little brother would have something to eat. I love these two! :cry:

And I agree with you Cheryl42.
Quote:
The only thing that matters to Dean and the only thing that binds him to his life is Sam, "there ain't no me if there ain't no you". This is why I watch the show. I really don't care about the minutiae or the one word or line. For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.
That is the reason that keeps me coming back week after week, the brotherly bond. So what if there is a canon slip up here or there, as long as it's not major, it won't change anything for me. I can't believe that we are getting so close to the hiatus already. This season sure is flying by.
E
# E 2013-11-19 08:10
I guess I am just concerned that Sam didn't even seem to remember this incident… or if he did, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to him. Yeah, your brother going missing and presumably lost on a hunt was no big deal. :o The set up in the clip just seems strange to me.

And wasn't it implied that Dean hadn't done any solo hunts before Sam left for Standford? In the pilot Dean tells Sam that he was out on a hunt and Sam's obviously upset about that saying "What? Alone?" To which Dean responds "Dude, I'm 26." The implication that I got from that exchange was that before Sam left none of the Winchesters hunted on their own. Now we have Dean supposedly getting lost on a hunt at 16 and Sam accepting that story as though Dean was always going off on hunts by himself. I'm not sure that I like all the mismatched pieces. Hopefully there will be some plot point here that makes this all make sense. I don't mind issues in canon like the "rugagroo" situation or Ben Endlund's slip about the the Grand Canyon, but too many mistakes chip away at the fabric of the world that's been created, weakening it IMO. Yes, yes, I know, I am pre-speculating and none of this may in fact be a problem and all will be explained in a really cool way (cough*Defendin g Your Life*cough). But I am worried, and am praying that all these little thorny bits come together to make some kind of sense. Other than that, it will be nice to see an old-fashined creepy ghosty on the loose; it's been a while.
E
# E 2013-11-19 08:10
I guess I am just concerned that Sam didn't even seem to remember this incident… or if he did, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to him. Yeah, your brother going missing and presumably lost on a hunt was no big deal. :o The set up in the clip just seems strange to me.

And wasn't it implied that Dean hadn't done any solo hunts before Sam left for Standford? In the pilot Dean tells Sam that he was out on a hunt and Sam's obviously upset about that saying "What? Alone?" To which Dean responds "Dude, I'm 26." The implication that I got from that exchange was that before Sam left none of the Winchesters hunted on their own. Now we have Dean supposedly getting lost on a hunt at 16 and Sam accepting that story as though Dean was always going off on hunts by himself. I'm not sure that I like all the mismatched pieces. Hopefully there will be some plot point here that makes this all make sense. I don't mind issues in canon like the "rugagroo" situation or Ben Endlund's slip about the the Grand Canyon, but too many mistakes chip away at the fabric of the world that's been created, weakening it IMO. Yes, yes, I know, I am pre-speculating and none of this may in fact be a problem and all will be explained in a really cool way (cough*Defendin g Your Life*cough). But I am worried, and am praying that all these little thorny bits come together to make some kind of sense. Other than that, it will be nice to see an old-fashined creepy ghosty on the loose; it's been a while.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 08:35
When questioned on Twitter about Sam not seeming to really remember the incident well, Glass asked how much the fan remembered from when they were nine.
a. If Dean was 16, Sam should be 12, not 9.
b. If Dean disappeared for "several months," that would be a big deal to Sam, probably traumatic.
Fans then questioned the age disparity, and Glass said not to get bogged down in minutiae. That's not minutiae, it's simple math. There has to be something going on to warp time or have a time jump. Otherwise, it makes no sense.
I don't care if Sam was nine, Dean going missing for several months on hunt would have been traumatic for Sam. If my big brother had gone missing when I was nine or 12, it would have been traumatic for me -- and we weren't Sam and Dean for Chuck's sake.
So yeah, I'll be really interested to see how they handle this.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 08:35
When questioned on Twitter about Sam not seeming to really remember the incident well, Glass asked how much the fan remembered from when they were nine.
a. If Dean was 16, Sam should be 12, not 9.
b. If Dean disappeared for "several months," that would be a big deal to Sam, probably traumatic.
Fans then questioned the age disparity, and Glass said not to get bogged down in minutiae. That's not minutiae, it's simple math. There has to be something going on to warp time or have a time jump. Otherwise, it makes no sense.
I don't care if Sam was nine, Dean going missing for several months on hunt would have been traumatic for Sam. If my big brother had gone missing when I was nine or 12, it would have been traumatic for me -- and we weren't Sam and Dean for Chuck's sake.
So yeah, I'll be really interested to see how they handle this.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 08:41
Quoting cheryl42:
For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.

The rugaru thing doesn't really bother me, but the age discrepancy I think is problematic, if it isn't explained within the episode. Making the age difference suddenly 7 years, when it's always been 4 without an explanation is just sloppy writing. It's the kind of thing that Kripke or even Gamble never would have allowed. I'd like to feel confident that this team of writers wouldn't make such an obvious mistake, but considering the retconning we've gotten since Carver came on board, I'm not confident at all.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 08:41
Quote:
For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.
The rugaru thing doesn't really bother me, but the age discrepancy I think is problematic, if it isn't explained within the episode. Making the age difference suddenly 7 years, when it's always been 4 without an explanation is just sloppy writing. It's the kind of thing that Kripke or even Gamble never would have allowed. I'd like to feel confident that this team of writers wouldn't make such an obvious mistake, but considering the retconning we've gotten since Carver came on board, I'm not confident at all.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-19 08:48
Quoting bangingpatchouli:
Quoting cheryl42:
For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.

The rugaru thing doesn't really bother me, but the age discrepancy I think is problematic, if it isn't explained within the episode. Making the age difference suddenly 7 years, when it's always been 4 without an explanation is just sloppy writing. It's the kind of thing that Kripke or even Gamble never would have allowed. I'd like to feel confident that this team of writers wouldn't make such an obvious mistake, but considering the retconning we've gotten since Carver came on board, I'm not confident at all.


If the age difference is never mentioned in the episode then there is no discrepancy as far as I'm concerned. As per the clip, at this stage all the episode tells us is that Dean was 16. As there is no mention of Sam's age, I will wait to see what the episode reveals rather than Adam's twitter.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-19 08:48
Quote:
Quote:
For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.
The rugaru thing doesn't really bother me, but the age discrepancy I think is problematic, if it isn't explained within the episode. Making the age difference suddenly 7 years, when it's always been 4 without an explanation is just sloppy writing. It's the kind of thing that Kripke or even Gamble never would have allowed. I'd like to feel confident that this team of writers wouldn't make such an obvious mistake, but considering the retconning we've gotten since Carver came on board, I'm not confident at all.
If the age difference is never mentioned in the episode then there is no discrepancy as far as I'm concerned. As per the clip, at this stage all the episode tells us is that Dean was 16. As there is no mention of Sam's age, I will wait to see what the episode reveals rather than Adam's twitter.
E
# E 2013-11-19 08:52
It sounds currently like Mr. Glass referenced Sam as 9 years old on twitter only, which could have been him just shooting off a response quickly… not that big of a deal, but I hope and pray that Sam is not referenced as being 9 in the show while Dean is known to be 16 at the time of this incident. That would be a major problem IMO and something that should have been caught by the continuity people. Hopefully that's just a twitter thing.

And I agree with bangingpatchoul i; I don't care if I was 12 or 9 or 3, if one of my siblings suddenly went missing for MONTHS, I'd be freaked out and would have remembered the incident clearly. Not only was Sam lied to about his brother being missing (like this is an IMPROVEMENT to the truth) but he was shipped off to Bobby's as though he was in the way. I can't believe that Sam would be so nonchalant and unaffected by such an intense incident in his and Dean's lives. REALLY hoping that the story ends up all making sense somehow. Maybe this whole thing is something that John set up? Using Dean as a plant on a hunt and they didn't want to Sam to know because it was so dangerous?
E
# E 2013-11-19 08:52
It sounds currently like Mr. Glass referenced Sam as 9 years old on twitter only, which could have been him just shooting off a response quickly… not that big of a deal, but I hope and pray that Sam is not referenced as being 9 in the show while Dean is known to be 16 at the time of this incident. That would be a major problem IMO and something that should have been caught by the continuity people. Hopefully that's just a twitter thing.

And I agree with bangingpatchoul i; I don't care if I was 12 or 9 or 3, if one of my siblings suddenly went missing for MONTHS, I'd be freaked out and would have remembered the incident clearly. Not only was Sam lied to about his brother being missing (like this is an IMPROVEMENT to the truth) but he was shipped off to Bobby's as though he was in the way. I can't believe that Sam would be so nonchalant and unaffected by such an intense incident in his and Dean's lives. REALLY hoping that the story ends up all making sense somehow. Maybe this whole thing is something that John set up? Using Dean as a plant on a hunt and they didn't want to Sam to know because it was so dangerous?
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 09:24
Quoting sweetondean:
Quoting bangingpatchouli:
Quoting cheryl42:
For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.

The rugaru thing doesn't really bother me, but the age discrepancy I think is problematic, if it isn't explained within the episode. Making the age difference suddenly 7 years, when it's always been 4 without an explanation is just sloppy writing. It's the kind of thing that Kripke or even Gamble never would have allowed. I'd like to feel confident that this team of writers wouldn't make such an obvious mistake, but considering the retconning we've gotten since Carver came on board, I'm not confident at all.


If the age difference is never mentioned in the episode then there is no discrepancy as far as I'm concerned. As per the clip, at this stage all the episode tells us is that Dean was 16. As there is no mention of Sam's age, I will wait to see what the episode reveals rather than Adam's twitter.


That's true. I'm really more interested to see how Sam's reaction to the incident is handled. I find that Glass is better at writing Dean than Sam, but the jury is out on this one. I do have some misgivings about the premise itself, with Dean's apparent irresponsibilit y, etc., but I'll wait see what happens because I'm not sure that what we're getting in that clip is an accurate picture of what happened. In fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 09:24
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For me it just doesn't take me out of the episode because that is not why I watch. It's about the brothers.
The rugaru thing doesn't really bother me, but the age discrepancy I think is problematic, if it isn't explained within the episode. Making the age difference suddenly 7 years, when it's always been 4 without an explanation is just sloppy writing. It's the kind of thing that Kripke or even Gamble never would have allowed. I'd like to feel confident that this team of writers wouldn't make such an obvious mistake, but considering the retconning we've gotten since Carver came on board, I'm not confident at all.
If the age difference is never mentioned in the episode then there is no discrepancy as far as I'm concerned. As per the clip, at this stage all the episode tells us is that Dean was 16. As there is no mention of Sam's age, I will wait to see what the episode reveals rather than Adam's twitter.
That's true. I'm really more interested to see how Sam's reaction to the incident is handled. I find that Glass is better at writing Dean than Sam, but the jury is out on this one. I do have some misgivings about the premise itself, with Dean's apparent irresponsibilit y, etc., but I'll wait see what happens because I'm not sure that what we're getting in that clip is an accurate picture of what happened. In fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-11-19 10:24
@27
"I do have some misgivings about the premise itself, with Dean's apparent irresponsibilit y"
Actually I hope in many ways they go this route, it gives some indication that Dean was off the rails somewhat, which John either heeds or ignores! We shall have to wait and see. 16 years old and hocking the bread dough to gamble, let the intervention begin
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-11-19 10:24
@27
"I do have some misgivings about the premise itself, with Dean's apparent irresponsibilit y"
Actually I hope in many ways they go this route, it gives some indication that Dean was off the rails somewhat, which John either heeds or ignores! We shall have to wait and see. 16 years old and hocking the bread dough to gamble, let the intervention begin
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-11-19 10:53
...
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-11-19 10:53
...
ThisOldBag
# ThisOldBag 2013-11-19 10:53
I too, am very much interested to note Sam's reaction to the 'lie' as it relates to this seasons larger lie. This could be very interesting. I have never been a big fan of the flashbacks or the kids that play Sam & Dean, although I do appreciate that it (usually) gives me a better understanding of the family dynamic.
ThisOldBag
# ThisOldBag 2013-11-19 10:53
I too, am very much interested to note Sam's reaction to the 'lie' as it relates to this seasons larger lie. This could be very interesting. I have never been a big fan of the flashbacks or the kids that play Sam & Dean, although I do appreciate that it (usually) gives me a better understanding of the family dynamic.
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-19 11:58
So this isn't really an issue more speculation. I believe that Sam won't be in the flashbacks at all and the Bobby story is just the show's way of explaining his absence (please let that be the case! :-? ) ... though in that case why have an actor to play young Sam at all? Questions Questions ....

Anyway my point is how come Bobby was suddenly a useful babysitter type when Sam was 9/11/12/random age (the confusion is only because of what AG said and I think he wasn't meaning to be specific) and not at any time before that?
It would be cool if it turned out that 'Omaha' (the incident Bobby wasn't forgiven for by Rufus) had resulted in him retiring and becoming the hunter researcher guy and so a stable place for Sam to stay.
But if it was a good place for Sam then why didn't John just leave him there. Honestly everyone talks so constantly about keeping Sam safe (as Sam gets bigger and bigger and bigger .... ) so if there was a safe place for him (with an expert hunter no less!), where he could get some stable schooling why does John then go back to dragging him around the place?
I don't suppose Jim Beaver is going to make an appearance in this episode? That would be fun! Didn't we see him with young Dean in Deaths Door?
Filling in the fanfic on this maybe this was the point that John discovered the reason why the demons were taking an interest in Sam and so knew he would have to have him with them? Or maybe he made a judgement about how Bobby would react if he knew?
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-19 11:58
So this isn't really an issue more speculation. I believe that Sam won't be in the flashbacks at all and the Bobby story is just the show's way of explaining his absence (please let that be the case! :-? ) ... though in that case why have an actor to play young Sam at all? Questions Questions ....

Anyway my point is how come Bobby was suddenly a useful babysitter type when Sam was 9/11/12/random age (the confusion is only because of what AG said and I think he wasn't meaning to be specific) and not at any time before that?
It would be cool if it turned out that 'Omaha' (the incident Bobby wasn't forgiven for by Rufus) had resulted in him retiring and becoming the hunter researcher guy and so a stable place for Sam to stay.
But if it was a good place for Sam then why didn't John just leave him there. Honestly everyone talks so constantly about keeping Sam safe (as Sam gets bigger and bigger and bigger .... ) so if there was a safe place for him (with an expert hunter no less!), where he could get some stable schooling why does John then go back to dragging him around the place?
I don't suppose Jim Beaver is going to make an appearance in this episode? That would be fun! Didn't we see him with young Dean in Deaths Door?
Filling in the fanfic on this maybe this was the point that John discovered the reason why the demons were taking an interest in Sam and so knew he would have to have him with them? Or maybe he made a judgement about how Bobby would react if he knew?
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-19 12:18
I feel that maybe Dean's time in borstal might be more along the lines of (as someone suggested) an intervention by John than official social services idea.
I really don't see him going from not being in the system at all to being in care. Though if he was 16 isn't he considered an adult? Maybe he had been in trouble before and so they short-circuted the intermediate steps.
Or maybe it is one of those 'broken tail-light in a really small town' type stories with a judge with too much power?
What I am saying is this could be the plot of 'Cars' :D
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-19 12:18
I feel that maybe Dean's time in borstal might be more along the lines of (as someone suggested) an intervention by John than official social services idea.
I really don't see him going from not being in the system at all to being in care. Though if he was 16 isn't he considered an adult? Maybe he had been in trouble before and so they short-circuted the intermediate steps.
Or maybe it is one of those 'broken tail-light in a really small town' type stories with a judge with too much power?
What I am saying is this could be the plot of 'Cars' :D
Aqualilies
# Aqualilies 2013-11-19 12:19
I really want to be excited about this episode, I usually love flashback episodes, but really I'm just nervous. Maybe it's because a a lot of it isn't adding up for me. As others have mentioned I can't believe Sam would not have a stronger reaction to his brother being missing for several months. Also, how bad would it be if they let Sam worry that Dean was dead for several months when he was actually not in danger? I really hope the episode tries to explain some of this stuff.

I'm not one for nitpicking over canon, but this episode seems perfectly positioned to tear many holes in the timeline, like the rugaru, the age gap, and Dean not hunting alone when Sam was there.

Hopefully my apprehension is premature, but this episode could either be amazing or terrible and right now I'm not so sure which.
Aqualilies
# Aqualilies 2013-11-19 12:19
I really want to be excited about this episode, I usually love flashback episodes, but really I'm just nervous. Maybe it's because a a lot of it isn't adding up for me. As others have mentioned I can't believe Sam would not have a stronger reaction to his brother being missing for several months. Also, how bad would it be if they let Sam worry that Dean was dead for several months when he was actually not in danger? I really hope the episode tries to explain some of this stuff.

I'm not one for nitpicking over canon, but this episode seems perfectly positioned to tear many holes in the timeline, like the rugaru, the age gap, and Dean not hunting alone when Sam was there.

Hopefully my apprehension is premature, but this episode could either be amazing or terrible and right now I'm not so sure which.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 12:29
Quoting E:
It sounds currently like Mr. Glass referenced Sam as 9 years old on twitter only, which could have been him just shooting off a response quickly… not that big of a deal, but I hope and pray that Sam is not referenced as being 9 in the show while Dean is known to be 16 at the time of this incident. That would be a major problem IMO and something that should have been caught by the continuity people. Hopefully that's just a twitter thing.

And I agree with bangingpatchouli; I don't care if I was 12 or 9 or 3, if one of my siblings suddenly went missing for MONTHS, I'd be freaked out and would have remembered the incident clearly. Not only was Sam lied to about his brother being missing (like this is an IMPROVEMENT to the truth) but he was shipped off to Bobby's as though he was in the way. I can't believe that Sam would be so nonchalant and unaffected by such an intense incident in his and Dean's lives. REALLY hoping that the story ends up all making sense somehow. Maybe this whole thing is something that John set up? Using Dean as a plant on a hunt and they didn't want to Sam to know because it was so dangerous?


The problem with Glass making a "mistake" like that is that he counts himself as a big fan of the show, and I don't know many devoted fans who would make that mistake. I'm thinking that it needs to be referenced in the show for a purpose, otherwise why bring it up at all? If it was just a mistake, why didn't he just say he made a mistake?

Wow, the idea of John using Dean as a plant is an interesting one. I've always wondered if John didn't use Sam as bait with the shtriga. If not, why were the boys even in town when he knew who the victims were? I've always suspected that he was using them and let Dean take the fall for Sam almost getting killed. That incident is one of the reasons I wonder about Dean's losing the food money at cards story. Would he really have been that irresponsible? Who was watching Sam while Dean was off gambling? Hm... Hopefully, we will get all our answers as Glass assured us.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 12:29
Quote:
It sounds currently like Mr. Glass referenced Sam as 9 years old on twitter only, which could have been him just shooting off a response quickly… not that big of a deal, but I hope and pray that Sam is not referenced as being 9 in the show while Dean is known to be 16 at the time of this incident. That would be a major problem IMO and something that should have been caught by the continuity people. Hopefully that's just a twitter thing.

And I agree with bangingpatchouli; I don't care if I was 12 or 9 or 3, if one of my siblings suddenly went missing for MONTHS, I'd be freaked out and would have remembered the incident clearly. Not only was Sam lied to about his brother being missing (like this is an IMPROVEMENT to the truth) but he was shipped off to Bobby's as though he was in the way. I can't believe that Sam would be so nonchalant and unaffected by such an intense incident in his and Dean's lives. REALLY hoping that the story ends up all making sense somehow. Maybe this whole thing is something that John set up? Using Dean as a plant on a hunt and they didn't want to Sam to know because it was so dangerous?
The problem with Glass making a "mistake" like that is that he counts himself as a big fan of the show, and I don't know many devoted fans who would make that mistake. I'm thinking that it needs to be referenced in the show for a purpose, otherwise why bring it up at all? If it was just a mistake, why didn't he just say he made a mistake?

Wow, the idea of John using Dean as a plant is an interesting one. I've always wondered if John didn't use Sam as bait with the shtriga. If not, why were the boys even in town when he knew who the victims were? I've always suspected that he was using them and let Dean take the fall for Sam almost getting killed. That incident is one of the reasons I wonder about Dean's losing the food money at cards story. Would he really have been that irresponsible? Who was watching Sam while Dean was off gambling? Hm... Hopefully, we will get all our answers as Glass assured us.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 12:46
Quoting eilf:
So this isn't really an issue more speculation. I believe that Sam won't be in the flashbacks at all and the Bobby story is just the show's way of explaining his absence (please let that be the case! :-? ) ... though in that case why have an actor to play young Sam at all? Questions Questions ....

Anyway my point is how come Bobby was suddenly a useful babysitter type when Sam was 9/11/12/random age (the confusion is only because of what AG said and I think he wasn't meaning to be specific) and not at any time before that?
It would be cool if it turned out that 'Omaha' (the incident Bobby wasn't forgiven for by Rufus) had resulted in him retiring and becoming the hunter researcher guy and so a stable place for Sam to stay.
But if it was a good place for Sam then why didn't John just leave him there. Honestly everyone talks so constantly about keeping Sam safe (as Sam gets bigger and bigger and bigger .... ) so if there was a safe place for him (with an expert hunter no less!), where he could get some stable schooling why does John then go back to dragging him around the place?
I don't suppose Jim Beaver is going to make an appearance in this episode? That would be fun! Didn't we see him with young Dean in Deaths Door?
Filling in the fanfic on this maybe this was the point that John discovered the reason why the demons were taking an interest in Sam and so knew he would have to have him with them? Or maybe he made a judgement about how Bobby would react if he knew?


I've wondered about that scene in Death's Door with Bobby playing catch with young Dean. Where was Sam? It's not like Bobby had a wife who could watch Sam while Bobby gave attention to Dean. I can't see John traveling with Sam and not Dean. I think it was just one of those convenient plot devices. I suspect that Sam being shuffled off to Bobby those months that Dean is missing in this week's ep is the same kind of thing.

As a writer though, I can't help but think that these kinds of convenient plot devices change things. If Sam spent months alone with Bobby, I'd have thought that would alter their dynamic. I never got the feeling that Bobby and Sam were as "close" as Bobby and Dean. I know Bobby found Sam to be a bit of a mystery. He said something like "you always were a deep little son of a bitch" in S7. I guess I would think that if Sam had spent months with Bobby alone, they would have had a closer relationship than I'd gotten the impression they did. On the other hand, Sam is a pretty closed off personality. Even Dean doesn't seem to understand him well.
bangingpatchouli
# bangingpatchouli 2013-11-19 12:46
Quote:
So this isn't really an issue more speculation. I believe that Sam won't be in the flashbacks at all and the Bobby story is just the show's way of explaining his absence (please let that be the case! :-? ) ... though in that case why have an actor to play young Sam at all? Questions Questions ....

Anyway my point is how come Bobby was suddenly a useful babysitter type when Sam was 9/11/12/random age (the confusion is only because of what AG said and I think he wasn't meaning to be specific) and not at any time before that?
It would be cool if it turned out that 'Omaha' (the incident Bobby wasn't forgiven for by Rufus) had resulted in him retiring and becoming the hunter researcher guy and so a stable place for Sam to stay.
But if it was a good place for Sam then why didn't John just leave him there. Honestly everyone talks so constantly about keeping Sam safe (as Sam gets bigger and bigger and bigger .... ) so if there was a safe place for him (with an expert hunter no less!), where he could get some stable schooling why does John then go back to dragging him around the place?
I don't suppose Jim Beaver is going to make an appearance in this episode? That would be fun! Didn't we see him with young Dean in Deaths Door?
Filling in the fanfic on this maybe this was the point that John discovered the reason why the demons were taking an interest in Sam and so knew he would have to have him with them? Or maybe he made a judgement about how Bobby would react if he knew?
I've wondered about that scene in Death's Door with Bobby playing catch with young Dean. Where was Sam? It's not like Bobby had a wife who could watch Sam while Bobby gave attention to Dean. I can't see John traveling with Sam and not Dean. I think it was just one of those convenient plot devices. I suspect that Sam being shuffled off to Bobby those months that Dean is missing in this week's ep is the same kind of thing.

As a writer though, I can't help but think that these kinds of convenient plot devices change things. If Sam spent months alone with Bobby, I'd have thought that would alter their dynamic. I never got the feeling that Bobby and Sam were as "close" as Bobby and Dean. I know Bobby found Sam to be a bit of a mystery. He said something like "you always were a deep little son of a bitch" in S7. I guess I would think that if Sam had spent months with Bobby alone, they would have had a closer relationship than I'd gotten the impression they did. On the other hand, Sam is a pretty closed off personality. Even Dean doesn't seem to understand him well.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-11-19 12:56
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-11-19 12:56
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-11-19 18:40
Quoting eilf:

But if it was a good place for Sam then why didn't John just leave him there. Honestly everyone talks so constantly about keeping Sam safe (as Sam gets bigger and bigger and bigger .... ) so if there was a safe place for him (with an expert hunter no less!), where he could get some stable schooling why does John then go back to dragging him around the place?


I don't know that John Winchester would want to put Sammy's life in anyone else's hands on a more permanent basis. They always had to keep moving around or they got caught. As it was Sam was under watch all the time by demons. I don't think Bobby's would have been any safer a place. Can't wait to see how it all unfolds though. I love reading all these different what if scenarios and questions.
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-11-19 18:40
Quote:

But if it was a good place for Sam then why didn't John just leave him there. Honestly everyone talks so constantly about keeping Sam safe (as Sam gets bigger and bigger and bigger .... ) so if there was a safe place for him (with an expert hunter no less!), where he could get some stable schooling why does John then go back to dragging him around the place?
I don't know that John Winchester would want to put Sammy's life in anyone else's hands on a more permanent basis. They always had to keep moving around or they got caught. As it was Sam was under watch all the time by demons. I don't think Bobby's would have been any safer a place. Can't wait to see how it all unfolds though. I love reading all these different what if scenarios and questions.
E
# E 2013-11-19 18:52
Thanks percysowner… it didn't help clear up any of the misgivings I have about this episode, but it sure does look creepy and cool…!

Quoting bangingpachouli "The problem with Glass making a "mistake" like that is that he counts himself as a big fan of the show, and I don't know many devoted fans who would make that mistake. I'm thinking that it needs to be referenced in the show for a purpose, otherwise why bring it up at all? If it was just a mistake, why didn't he just say he made a mistake?"

True enough.. he should know better, but I am thinking that he just fired off a quick reply on his twitter and doesn't really care to correct his oversight there because it doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things. My guess is that Sam's age won't be all that relevant to the episode; actually, I don't think Sam will be in the flashbacks much at all, so we can make him any age we'd like including the correct age. I am currently more concerned about the whole "my brother went missing and I didn't notice, and then got shipped off to Bobby and didn't really seem to care" vibes that I am getting so far. Still, this could all be panic before the fact.
E
# E 2013-11-19 18:52
Thanks percysowner… it didn't help clear up any of the misgivings I have about this episode, but it sure does look creepy and cool…!

Quoting bangingpachouli "The problem with Glass making a "mistake" like that is that he counts himself as a big fan of the show, and I don't know many devoted fans who would make that mistake. I'm thinking that it needs to be referenced in the show for a purpose, otherwise why bring it up at all? If it was just a mistake, why didn't he just say he made a mistake?"

True enough.. he should know better, but I am thinking that he just fired off a quick reply on his twitter and doesn't really care to correct his oversight there because it doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things. My guess is that Sam's age won't be all that relevant to the episode; actually, I don't think Sam will be in the flashbacks much at all, so we can make him any age we'd like including the correct age. I am currently more concerned about the whole "my brother went missing and I didn't notice, and then got shipped off to Bobby and didn't really seem to care" vibes that I am getting so far. Still, this could all be panic before the fact.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-19 19:11
I don't think Sam said he didn't notice. I think the inference was that 20 years ago John picked Sam up from some hotel and dumped him off at Bobby's with no explanation until he came back to get him a few months later with Dean. The story they told Sam was that Dean had been lost on some hunt. We know that John could get into need to know attitude with the boys so Sam probably didn't get to question what was going on at the time. And yes AG was getting a little frustrated with the tweets and was just trying to get everyone to watch the episode and then decide if It sucked or not. Now days it seems that everyone decides to hate an episode before they see it just based on a word or a phrase. I'm with sweetondean lets just wait and see with an open mind.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-19 19:11
I don't think Sam said he didn't notice. I think the inference was that 20 years ago John picked Sam up from some hotel and dumped him off at Bobby's with no explanation until he came back to get him a few months later with Dean. The story they told Sam was that Dean had been lost on some hunt. We know that John could get into need to know attitude with the boys so Sam probably didn't get to question what was going on at the time. And yes AG was getting a little frustrated with the tweets and was just trying to get everyone to watch the episode and then decide if It sucked or not. Now days it seems that everyone decides to hate an episode before they see it just based on a word or a phrase. I'm with sweetondean lets just wait and see with an open mind.
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-11-19 19:55
The girl was in The Born Again Identity, she was the patient that gave Sam the chocolate bar. The one with the brother haunting her.
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-11-19 19:55
The girl was in The Born Again Identity, she was the patient that gave Sam the chocolate bar. The one with the brother haunting her.
Mick
# Mick 2013-11-19 21:07
Quoting Manstrad:
The girl was in The Born Again Identity, she was the patient that gave Sam the chocolate bar. The one with the brother haunting her.


Wrong girl, she's only 22 (and also the daughter of frequent SPN director Mike Rohl).

But this girl was actually on the show before, only it was "Salvation."
Mick
# Mick 2013-11-19 21:07
Quote:
The girl was in The Born Again Identity, she was the patient that gave Sam the chocolate bar. The one with the brother haunting her.
Wrong girl, she's only 22 (and also the daughter of frequent SPN director Mike Rohl).

But this girl was actually on the show before, only it was "Salvation."
Grace232
# Grace232 2013-11-19 22:03
OMG - how great was that episode, everyone? Absolutely fabulous! Both guys rocked it - and the guest stars came to play! The kid playing Dean even got the OPT down! Great script and direction - whole crew nailed it. Love this show!

Now - how funny/awkward was Dean's "now you're a virgin" smile in the preview for next week. That is going to be a riot!
Grace232
# Grace232 2013-11-19 22:03
OMG - how great was that episode, everyone? Absolutely fabulous! Both guys rocked it - and the guest stars came to play! The kid playing Dean even got the OPT down! Great script and direction - whole crew nailed it. Love this show!

Now - how funny/awkward was Dean's "now you're a virgin" smile in the preview for next week. That is going to be a riot!
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-11-20 02:54
Quoting Mick:
Quoting Manstrad:
The girl was in The Born Again Identity, she was the patient that gave Sam the chocolate bar. The one with the brother haunting her.


Wrong girl, she's only 22 (and also the daughter of frequent SPN director Mike Rohl).

But this girl was actually on the show before, only it was "Salvation."

Right! in the picture they look similar to me... thanks!
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-11-20 02:54
Quote:
Quote:
The girl was in The Born Again Identity, she was the patient that gave Sam the chocolate bar. The one with the brother haunting her.
Wrong girl, she's only 22 (and also the daughter of frequent SPN director Mike Rohl).

But this girl was actually on the show before, only it was "Salvation."
Right! in the picture they look similar to me... thanks!