Let’s Speculate: “Mommy Dearest”
Warning!!!! If you haven’t seen the latest episode of “Supernatural” and the preview for next week, do not read this! There is going to be plot-based speculation and discussion! You’ve been officially warned!
I’m not even sure where to begin with this week’s episode. I feel like I need a few days and a rewatch to really process what’s going on, the implications of everything. But screw it! Friday nights post-episode are for wild, unthought-out speculation! So here we go.
Ding Dong, the King is…Not Dead
Well, Crowley’s alive. I was pretty shocked when they killed him off so early in the season, and it turns out he wasn’t dead after all. Well played, show. Well played. Which means that Cass and Crowley faked his death and that Cass has been lying by omission since then. And as the last scene confirmed, they are working together, and have been for some time, it seems, if Crowley can be believed. “How many times do I have to clean up your messes” sounds an awful lot like a long-term partnership. When and under what circumstances did they team up? I’m guessing we’ll get an answer to this next week because that is a conversation I’d like to hear. Oh, and is this the “dirty little secret” Rachel was referring to? I’m guessing yes. Teaming up with the king of Hell certainly would put a damper on their angelic relationship, I think.
And speaking of Crowley, we learned tonight that he’s not just after Purgatory’s real estate. He wants the monster souls. Cass also wants souls for his civil war. Maybe they’re working together to find purgatory so they can both harvest these souls and use them for their individual purposes. If Cass was willing to create 50,000 souls out of nothing in an attempt to get souls, maybe he is willing to work with Crowley to get monster souls.
Mommy Dearest
One of my favorite things about this episode (and there were a lot of things to like. Jefferson Starships, anyone?) is the way Eve stated her case. And yes, turning into Mary was a dick move, and so was the whole “release the kid hounds” move, but honestly, I thought she ended up being pretty rational, all things considered. At least, I completely understood her motivations. The whole natural order, my kids turn some of you, you kill some of them was interesting. She was fine with that. But then Crowley started messing things up, and she acted. Now, I’m not saying the Winchesters should have taken her deal, but I was extremely intrigued by the offer. Of course, who’s to say she wouldn’t have just double-crossed them anyway, but still. Now I wonder if she’s really Dead dead or just “damn, now I need to find some more dragons and have them get me a new vessel” dead.
Who Really Brought Sam Back?
Now, this is something I really hope we get an answer to next week. Crowley has been trying to take credit for bringing Sam back, right? But what if it was really Cass? What if he went and got Sam back but couldn’t/didn’t realize he didn’t get Sam’s soul, too. And then he was so ashamed of the fact that he tried to get Sam back and couldn’t that he didn’t answer Sam’s prayers, didn’t say anything, didn’t want anyone to know because he felt guilty. Because Sam’s soul was really still locked up in the cage, and it really was dangerous to try and put him back together, and Cass felt horrible about being the reason behind that. But if he did bring Sam back, why doesn’t Sam have a handprint on him? Because you would think he would notice and mention it, if he had one. It’s not like you can just hide a giant burned-in handprint. Maybe you have to be resurrected with your soul in place for that to happen, like it’s a grace/soul transfer thing? Maybe that’s why Cass and Dean have a “more profound bond.”
Balthazar’s Role
If Cass and Crowley are working together, what does Balthazar know, when did he know it, what does he think about it, and what is his role in that alliance? Surely he must know, right? Cass is not a good liar, not really. I have a hard time believing he could pull off a deception of Balthazar for that long.
Ben Edlund, Please Do Not Kill Me Next Week
I am simultaneously looking forward to and dreading next week’s episode. I think it’s going to be a real corker, a “On the Head of a Pin” style emotion-fest. It’s probably no secret around here that I adore Castiel, so I’m just hoping that he’s not really going dark side, that whatever he’s done, he’s done with the best intentions and just lost his way. Which would pretty much make him a Winchester, wouldn’t it? I mean, he did learn everything he knows about making decisions from them.
Okay, I think that’s all I’ve got. What did we all think about the episode? I personally loved it and really liked all the twists and turns and how the plot strings of the season are really starting to come together. Can’t wait to see how this all plays out!
I was blown away by the episode. I love how events from earlier in the season were suddenly turned on their head with all new meaning. So great.
I’ve been speculating for awhile now that Cas and Crowley were working together so I was majorly pleased a) to be right and b) to see Mark Sheppard again! I have way too much love for Crowley, considering he’s a demon and all. Now the question becomes what they’ve done in the name of their partnership.
Re: Who brought Sam back, I will be miffed if it ended up being Cas, mostly because he shouldn’t have the mojo. It took multiple angels to get Dean out and Sam was in the Cage, a place that even Azazel and Lilith (a couple of real Hell A-listers) couldn’t get to on their own. Now if Sam coming back soulless was a function of Cas and Crowley working together, that would be interesting (and I have a hard time seeing Dean forgiving Cas for that; he’d be pretty lenient for bad things done with good intentions EXCEPT actions that hurt Sam).
Also, when Eve talked about making the perfect beast, I couldn’t help but think back to the Alpha Vamp when he wanted to turn Robo!Sam, saying he would be the perfect monster without a soul to get in his way. Eerily similar choice of words.
Ah, I’m so intrigued!
I agree 100% with you and have gone on record saying that I thought Cass and Crowley were working together. Makes me wonder why Sam was brought back. Did someone foil a plan to make him a ‘perfect monster’? Did Cass do it out of love for the boys? I’m going out on a limb here: I think Sam’s soul is worth more than others, at least to Cas. I think he didn’t want to put Sam’s soul back in Sam because he wanted it’s power, but Death trumped him and snuck it out of wherever it was. Maybe it wasn’t in the cage all that time. Maybe it was somewhere safer and Sam won’t really lose his mind if the wall comes down. He might have a bad time of it and remember Hell, but it will be less damaging than Cas predicted.
I can’t wait to see where Crowley fits in here, but he and Cas make an uneasy alliance for some power-play, I think. I don’t think monsters have souls, but if people get turned into monsters, perhaps their souls are destroyed and they become useless to the “fight”. Hmmmmm…..
I’ve raised a lot of my questions already in the discussion and preview post, but you’ve raised a few good ones here, too.
It would make sense that Cas and Crowley would team up when you put it into the context of avoiding the restart of the Apocalypse. We know Crowley doesn’t really give a crap about the Winchesters, so what’s a little lying or misleading to him? We can tell that Cas is getting worn down in many fronts, however.
I like the notion that Cas truly brought Sam, sans soul back, but not deliberate. If he did bring Sam back but somehow couldn’t put the soul back in at the same time, it would make sense why he dodged Sam and never answered any of Sam’s prayers. It’d still be a big angst fest if that should be the case, but not nearly as much the black mark it could be if he had deliberately left Sam’s soul in the Cage.
I feel that Cas is this season’s version of Sam in season 4. He’s got a lot of good intentions and his heart is likely in the right place, he is simply being misguided and mislead as he tries to do the good. Crowley, in some ways, is Cas’s Ruby—just without the sex, though with slash fans in this fandom, give them time in fanfiction land. I think, though, the difference is Cas isn’t nearly manipulated the same way Sam had been. He KNOWS he’s playing a dangerous game and is possibly getting in deep—not that Sam didn’t, he was in a bad place mentally and therefore vulnerable. Cas is desperate. He knows he has to win this war or they’ll be facing a Cage break to put Lucifer and Michael back on track for the prize fight.
I wonder if Eve was waiting for the prize fight to occur, like a lot of others. She wasn’t too keen on this disruption of the Natural Order. If this is the case, is she somehow tied up with the angels, demons and like or is she completely a separate entity all together? Is she similar to Fate in that sense? I don’t think she’s dead dead. I think we’ll see Eve again in some way down the road.
If anything, this episode gave us the brilliance that is Dean. He rarely gets the credit for being as intelligent as he truly is and it was nice to see him outsmart Eve so well.
That being said, I don’t think Bobby will ever let Dean name anything again. I about fell off my chair laughing when Sam ACTUALLY called one of them a Jefferson Starship. Like really? Holy cow was that funny.
I’m fairly certain, as smart as Balthazar is, that he knows about Crowley. How much he truly knows is any one’s guess.
I agree, though. This episode will take a few more viewings and time to fully process. They’ve done such a fantastic job with this season in my opinion. I know when we were lacking a lot of the pieces more or less and Sam’s soullessness seemed to drag on the brotherly bond it made people question, but I think it’s been well done. Hell, so far my favorite episode of the season is still Clap Your Hands If You Believe. I don’t know why, but it just is.
Just finished watching and still trying to process everything.
But here is something I am wondering about. Dean got resurrected by an army of angles. What if Cas went to get Sam but angles weren’t able to do it by themsleves since Sam was in the cage. What if Cas needed some help from hell to get Sam out and therefore he teamed up with Crowley who once was the king of crossroads. Maybe Crowley talked Cas into a deal to get Sam back. A deal that had something to do with Purgatory and Souls. And Cas thought the only way to have a back door would be good souls for him. Maybe Sam’s soul wasn’t in the cage all that time maybe Cas had it stored away for later usage. After all Sam’s soul is a good soul as well as a hunter soul. Maybe Cas had plans with that soul.
I agree! This is what I was thinking last week, but couldn’t believe they would really take Cas that far…but I think it’s looking that way. That was a crazy episode, and I loved that I didn’t watch any spoilers beyond the preview from last week. I’m going to try and keep that up from now on.
I’ve been out of commission for a while due to work, but I had to comment on this episode. I was really impressed with it, especially with the explicit mirroring of not only the young brothers with Sam and Dean but also the mirroring between Dean and Cas. To me, Cas was critical of Dean about the brothers because he sees himself in Dean; his empathy for Sam/Dean the last few seasons have cost him a lot. The crippling “empathetic” feelings he had are now seen as a weakness, which makes me think that Cas may have been the one to bring Sam back. He is trying hard to forestall his affection for the brothers and more and more it seems that they are being used as part of the larger battle.
I believe William Penn once said that without God men would be ruled by tyrants, a reality that seems to be coming to fruition in heaven’s war. I have a sneaking suspicion that Cas is becoming tyrannical in his role as general, especially given Rachel’s implications last week.
I also have a suspicion that Death brought Sam’s soul back to attempt to restore the natural order of things. The height of irony being that Sam and Dean seemed to have usurped it in the first place. But now I’m not so sure. The maintenance of this theme during this season, the order of things, brings into relief that idea that there was a point at which the order was right, but something disrupted it. Many have speculated that it was John’s deal with YED or Dean’s deal at the crossroads, but the apocalypse seemed to be the natural order – all things were moving to a prescribed end.
Perhaps, and I could be so wrong it’s not even funny, that the natural order was disrupted by Dean saying no to Michael. The fact that Sam said yes and Dean said no is an imbalance. Even though Adam was there, he was not the natural choice – he was the convenient one. In the end, the battle was between brothers who loved each other, even in their animosity. To me, Adam was kind of like a bad evolutionary mutation. Adaptation for convenience does not always ensure a healthy future.
The natural order, the natural balance, is out of whack, which means it has to be set right. How do they do that especially when everyone in heaven and hell is looking to use humanity as real estate to be snatched up? Just some thoughts on an early Saturday morning…..
First off, they didn’t give it away by having ‘Mark Sheppard’ in the opening credits, b/c that would have been a dead give away.
I agree Ardeospina, now we know what the ‘dirty little secret’ is.
Mother/Eve has now completely destroyed the angelic image of Mary that Dean has held since he was a child. Zach tarnished it in ‘Dark Side of Moon’, but now it is flushed down the toilet. 😀
WTF Cas!!!!!!!!! That is all I am going to say. WTF Cas!!!!!!!!!!
Eve was just protecting her children. Ok, she was a little on the violent, psychopathic side, but what mother wouldn’t be, when her children are threatened?
I am not looking forward to the last three 🙁 episodes. I see tissues, chocolates, and ice cream for the summer.
Damn you Sera. Bring it on.
Forgot something.
Smart!Dean. 😆 😆 😆 😆
He may not have book smarts, but damn, that boy’s brain is always working.
Oh yes very smart Dean! 😆
I loved the episode. Very funny and alot of twists and turns.
I found myself kinda of liking the mother and her case!
I do think it may have been Cass who got Sam out, but maybe it wasn’t an accident leaving his soul there, maybe they where using it! I hope not 😮
I knew Crowley was still alive, but i didn’t think Cass would be working with him (Cass what are you doing!)
Next weeks episode is going to be heart-breaking for sure (mostly for Dean) I’m dreading and looking forward to it.
I just hope Castiel doesn’t die, i adore him..
It certainly was an enthralling episode, no doubt. Strangely though, the more I think about it, the more frustrated I am. Now I’ve been frustrated before but that was in either an ‘I can’t believe you ripped out my heart and trod on it’ (Twihard) or ‘Will this show ever get a move on’ (All Dogs Go to Heaven). This is more of an ‘Ah, not this again’ kind of frustration.
While I was unspoilered going in to it, when I saw the ‘previous episodes’ part at the beginning focusing on Crowley, I knew he was still alive and if he was alive, he was working with Castiel so unfortunately the last few moments didn’t have an impact on me. (Also, as soon as I saw Dean pocket the spare bullet I knew what he was going to do. The curse of too many ‘Famous Five’ books growing up, I’m afraid!)
So Mother of Eve turned out to be nothing more than a plot device, fairly appropriate given how much time was invested in her character! I find myself strangely sympathetic to her. Demons [b]and[/b] angels have been (worse than) killing her children for some time now. Sam and Dean played a fairly major part in that. And once she does something to bring about their survival, she’s hunted for it. I also found the way she died rather anticlimactic. She could smell the phoenix ash on the gun in an instant but she couldn’t smell the phoenix ash in Dean in all the time she spent in close proximity to him.
Ok, I’m the first to admit being stupid but this whole souls/monster souls is actually giving me a headache. I raised questions two weeks ago in relation to Castiel and the Titanic souls. The same applies to the Alpha monsters. All we’ve learned prior to this has indicated that souls can’t be just taken, they have to be traded. So (again), why would those in Purgatory agree to just hand over their souls. Also, surely if the monsters handed over their souls under duress, it’d be to the one doing the torturing ie Crowley, not Castiel so what has Castiel promised Crowley to get said souls?
Also, I’m assuming that Purgatory is a place you can go when you die (Heaven, Hell, Purgatory.) So if souls can be harvested once a person is dead then why isn’t Castiel busy harvesting the squagillions of souls from heaven?
The episode does raise a few interesting questions, predominantly to do with Castiel. How long has he been working with Crowley? Has he been planning for this since season 5 (because if Soulless Sam was bought back almost straight away Castiel and Crowley must have at least in part, arranged it before Swan Song)? This has to make us look at everything Castiel has done in new light.
Who bought Sam back? At this stage, I’m just waiting to be told cos I’m out of guesses. (I just hope we ARE told.) Eve referred to Crowley as the King of Hell so maybe he did have the power to get him out. Castiel, in his new and improved status, could also have had the power so either of these is plausible. (Course if it’s that easy for Crowley and Castiel to hop into the cage, what’s to stop a powerful archangel doing the same thing? Hell, maybe Raphael made a deal with Meg (who seemed well capable of kicking Crowleys ass).
Next up, where was the freaking soul? If it wasn’t in the Cage (and given that the only people who were saying it was in the cage were Crowley and Castiel, it’s become more than a possibility) then where was it, and where did the memories of the Cage come from? Were they planted? Jeez, is Death in on it as well? While we’re at it, both Eve and Castiel referred to Joe and Ryan as ‘wayward orphans’, does Castiel have a little ménage a trios with Crowley and Eve going on? Were Castiel and Eve faking Castiel losing his powers in this episode? The five minutes he wanted alone with the hybrid certainly indicates this because he had that guy singing like a canary after 30 seconds. Pretty powerful stuff for a seemingly ‘unplugged’ angel.
It was mentioned that Crowley is, in part, Castiels Ruby and I think he is but maybe Castiel is also Dean’s Ruby. Is he going to end up like Sam in season 4, believing in Castiel though everyone else (well Bobby and Sam) is telling him not to? They’ve been mirror images in so many ways, trusting demons, wanting normal, choosing hunting, choosing family etc but Dean has never had a Ruby figure. Will the next episode or two take Dean to that emotional crossroads Sam was at in Season 4 when his brother told him not to trust Ruby?
What there was to like…. The symbolism of the two brothers (Ryan and Joe) was lovely. It really was quite moving to see the Sam and Dean’s earlier relationship reflected in the two kids, the younger ‘not wholly himself’ brother, and the ever protecting older brother, in the back seat of a classic car. Seeing the two brothers back there, supposedly safe, possibly (to Sam and Dean anyway) validated all of their actions to date. Plus there are traces of Bobby in the kid’s uncle; he who accepted these orphans into his home so readily and who would have looked on them as his own. Course, the symbolism of all three of them ending up dead as a result of the younger brother isn’t lost on me either…. (Well played with that scenario, show)
Bobby is now almost at the top of my list. He’s such a traditionalist! Nothing fazes him (bar computers without buttons!)
What else was good about the episode? Castiel and um…. Castiel. I’m fairly entranced by Castiel and his doings at the minute. Ok, Castiel still sucks at lying (and if Soulless Sam were still around he’d had spotted it in an instant) but he was the stand out character for me by a country mile in this episode. He’s got that whole conflicted thing going on at the moment (ala Sam season 4 and Dean mid season 5) which I like.
I loved the scene in the diner before Eve came into it mainly because of:
[b]Sam:[/b] Oh crap…crap…crap…
[b]Dean:[/b] Starships ?
[b]Sam:[/b] Yeah…
[b]Dean:[/b] Is there anyone in this dinner that is not a flesh eating monster?
[b]Sam:[/b] (pointing the phone to Dean) hum… me and you!
[b]Dean:[/b] Okay ! Let’s get the hell out of here!
[b]Sam:[/b] Shall we?
So dotey!
Um, Sam didn’t do much wrong in this episode because Sam didn’t do much in this episode, bar show off his new phone. I like how they might be touching on the memories thing. I think Sam’s ‘It’s probably nothing….’ is, to me, fairly indicative that Sam remembered something about Castiel which posits a whole new level of questions about their relationship
What I didn’t like….. um, quite a few things. At times it felt like Homer Simpson putting together a jigsaw, cutting off pieces to make them fit.
The ease at which Eve died was one. The return of Crowley (and Mary and Lenore) was another. It’s getting almost farcical at this stage. Mary died 22 years before the pilot but she’s been on the show so often you couldn’t tell. Crowley, Lenore, Ellen (2 weeks ago).
What bothers me most about this is that these are the fond memories I had of these characters are now distorted. Ellen was firmly lodged in my mind as a mother who refused to let her daughter die alone. Now she’s a woman married to Bobby pouring beer into a stew!
Personally, I think Mary deserves a serious telling off for the role she played in the whole affair (I don’t care, I hold her responsible for a lot….) but for the love of God, let her go!!! She doesn’t need to be dragged back in every time the boys need to suffer a bit of emotional turmoil. Bloody hell, the only person who hasn’t been bought back is John (and why the hell not, may I ask?)
Dean, (and I’m [i]really[/i] sorry about this,) kinda wrecked my head for a lot of this episode. Sorry. He was just a complete antithesis of the Dean I thought I knew in this season. I felt like I was watching a tremendously shallow, concentrated version of ‘The Dean’.
Gallows humor is fine to an extent but there’s no need to labour the point. I found his attitude to Castiel to be quite demeaning and found him to be tremendously sanctimonious at times. Also ‘We don’t work with demons, we don’t work with monsters’. What the hell are you talking about, dude? You worked with demons nine episodes ago. You worked with them for four years before that! Finally, his unwillingness to listen to anyone else was a killer for me. When Dean’s mind is made up, that’s it, my way or the high way. ‘Dean? No, Sam, the answer is no’. Hello seasons 1-5.
It’s like this episode took everything I dislike about Dean and exaggerated it tenfold. I’m hoping this was a writers blip cos it isn’t, Dean is going right down to the bottom of my list.
There’s a fine line between being endearing (Dean last week) and being a dick (Dean this week). Last week it was refreshing to see Dean ala Season 1 again because we saw the best parts of ‘early’ Dean, this week we saw (for me, anyway) the worst of ‘early’ Dean.
Sorry, maybe I had too many easter eggs. (Or not enough….)
Finally, one extra thing I didn’t like (and this is a personal peev), this whole Dean – Castiel thing is getting a little uncomfortable (and annoying). I’ve no problem with them sharing a more ‘profound bond’ (as given the circumstances of their meeting, I’d be surprised if they didn’t) but I can only take so many bloody ‘limp’ ‘flacid’ ‘up my ass’ jokes and I’ve reached the quota for the next ten years in this episode alone so show, either have the balls to go there or give it a rest, please, because what you’re trying to pull at the moment I just find juvenile and crass.
Sorry about all that. I’m now off to change my identity. (When I come back, I think I’ll make myself a B cup!)
I have to agree with you there. ” can only take so many bloody ‘limp’ ‘flacid’ ‘up my ass’ jokes and I’ve reached the quota for the next ten years in this episode alone.” I thought the same thing in the first half of the ep. What’s the deal? Reading too many Dean/Cas fanfics, Sera? Writers? Enough I say!
I don’t know if anyone has raised this in any of the other articles yet, but if Castiel has been working with Crowley, then Samuel [i]didn’t[/i] betray his grandsons.
Here’s my take on it:
Sam and Dean join up with Meg to hunt Crowley.
This causes a big problem for Castiel: who resolves it by faking Crowley’s death. More specifically, Cas orders Crowley to let them into the alpha torture chamber, pretend he’s going to kill them, then allow Cas to save the day by “killing” him.
This throws a new light on Samuel’s role in the affair.
If he was working for Crowley/Castiel, he was probably in on the plan. So his “betrayal” would have been part of the plan to trick the Winchesters. Since he knew they were not going to be harmed, his only crime was one of deception.
Not only that, but Samuel’s “betrayal” would have been superfluous, as Castiel was in on the Winchesters’ plan, and already privy to all the information Samuel supposedly leaked to Crowley.
Samuel told Dean he wasn’t apologizing for anything he did. This goes a long way to explaining why no apology was necessary. Samuel hadn’t betrayed them — but was sworn to secrecy by Castiel.
Which makes Sam’s shooting him (ear-worm notwithstanding) — high tragedy.
I’m not convinced this is the last time we’ll see Samuel, all things considered. Something tells me if Cas revived him in the first place, it wasn’t simply to keep Soulless Sam in check—we all can tell that this didn’t work well from what happened in Unforgiven.
I’ve been trying to figure Samuel out all season. But now that you bring this piece of the puzzle up, it makes some sense. Dean gives him his death threat (which is probably one of the favorite things I hear Dean do in this show) and they escape the deaths set out for them at Monster Gitmo only to see Crowley go “up in flames.”
Then we finally have them meet up with Samuel again and all the ear worm stuff. It just doesn’t seem likely to me that Cas would leave Samuel dead. He needed him for something—probably still does.
I found it striking in Exile On Mainstreet the reunion of Sam and Dean—well Soulless Sam and Dean. Soulless Sam didn’t give a crap about Dean, so why after a whole year go to him? I don’t think Soulless Sam did it because he suddenly had this urge. I think Samuel “pushed” him somehow. It makes you wonder if the djinn attack that sets the whole thing in motion was even legit. Something tells me Samuel knew something more and somehow controlled them to target Dean—and not out of family ties. If it had simply been a djinn attack, Dean would have handled it and relocated Ben and Lisa. Crowley and Cas both needed Dean back out of retirement. Sam was simply the bait.