This article discusses and tries to make sense out of all the spoilers that have been released about Supernatural’s tenth season. Spoiler phobes will want to steer clear! If you get excited about every little morsel of information about season 10, though, and would love to hear and discuss season 10 theories with other fans, read on! This is the place to be!

Spoilers, previews, interviews, convention comments….Supernatural fans worldwide are clamoring to hear any and all clues that might be teased about Demon!Dean’s fate!

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The season 10 official trailer announced the tag line “The Year of the Deanmon” but does that imply that Dean will be a demon for the entire season? Personally, I don’t think so! From what we’ve been told so far, we can at least be fairly certain that Dean won’t act like a demon for long. That would fundamentally change the dynamics of the show.  Still, there are several different ways this could play out. The way I see it, there are still many unanswered questions, such as:

How will Dean be cured of being a demon?…if he is cured at all!

Option 1: While researching the trials, Sam learned how to cure a demon. The brothers have long known how to exorcise a demon and send it back to hell, and how to kill a demon permanently, but neither of these would be a desirable fate for Dean. Instead, Sam can use the purified blood ritual that was nearly completed on Crowley to heal Dean’s soul.  This path would permanently restore Dean’s own values and morals, along with the memories and guilt of his transgressions. This might take Dean down another dark path, but that doesn’t seem to be the mood we are hearing about the season from any of the producers or from Jensen. It would justify the introduction of the demon cure in season 8, though, so it might reveal an end point in Jeremy’s three year myth-arc plan. It would also allow Sam to finally “save” his brother.

Option 2: Of course, there is always the possibility that Dean will remain a demon, but will learn to control his hedonistic desires. Cain remained a demon, but after throwing away the Blade he seemed to be able to control himself and live a principled life. When needed, however, he was still able to draw upon his MoC strength and skills. Cain gained his moral resolve from the promise to his wife but it was the shock of her death that convinced him to turn away from the Blade. Bob Singer said that season 10 is “very much about family”. Will Dean use his love for Sam as his moral compass? This would be another way that Sam could “save” his brother. Would Demon!Dean allow himself to be separated from the Blade? Letting him retain him super strength and fighting reflexes would give them a distinct advantage in battles.

This option would also leave the Mark of Cain on Dean’s arm, so a likely plot line would be researching and pursuing a way to remove the mark. This might be an interesting side mission for s10. I feel confident that the show will want to bring back Tim Omundson as Cain, because he was an outstanding character and was received so well by the fans. Cain also said that Dean would be back for him. This option would lead to the boys contacting Cain as part of their research. Dean would certainly want to ask the questions he should have asked in the first place! Will Dean finally grant Cain his wish to die?

Option 3: One of the most recent spoilers said that the demon issue is solved in a most unique and unexpected way (did this come out of Dallas convention? I’m not sure of the source). This implies the writers have come up with something we haven’t seen yet.

How long will Dean be/act like a demon?

Jensen's enthusiasm for a "lighter" season 10 strongly implies that he doesn’t play the part of a demon for very long (source: Fangasm's report on the  Dallas Meet and Greet session.)  My theory is that Dean will have to be back to normal by the 200th episode (10.05) because this very special episode should reflects the entire history of the show, not just a snapshot of one, disastrous phase in their lives.  So my guess is that we have four episodes of rowdy, killer Dean. Then again, Demon!Dean does seem to be a better singer than Hunter!Dean,
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and the 200th episode is a “musicalish” episode…

There is also the matter of the new hunter, Cole.
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He sounds like a remake of Gordon Walker, only chasing Dean instead of Sam. How long will the boys have to contend with him? Will he be in the picture for the entire season? Maybe Dean’s last act as a demon will be killing Cole?

What do you see as the possible paths for Dean? Have you heard spoilers that seem to hint at one theory over another? How long do you think we will be able to “enjoy” Demon!Dean’s long hair and bedroom desires? What do you think Sam’s role will be? Let’s Speculate!

Comments  

Michelle
# Michelle 2014-09-26 18:18
Per imdb...Travis Aaron Wade appears in episodes 2,3, & 7, so I would have to assume Cole is at least around til then. He also blames Dean for his father's death. I like the idea of Dean remaining a demon and the season spent trying to remove the Mark.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-09-27 09:45
Great detective work!
For the past several seasons, eisode 9 has been the mid-season finale (before that it was ep 10, so not far off). Maybe Cole is a pat of the story until then. They usually end one of more smaller story arcs mid-season in order to move forward with the larger story in the 2nd half of the season.
SanSummer1
# SanSummer1 2014-09-27 14:51
I think Cole is supposed to be in episodes 1, 2 and 7. At SDCC, Jared said Sam meets Cole very early on. There are promotional photos for the season premiere that show Cole interrogating Sam.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-09-26 18:18
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SanSummer1
# SanSummer1 2014-09-26 19:44
Quote:
5 - If Sam cures Dean, technically that completes the trials so what happens to him? The trials were killing him in S8 - does he start manifesting symptoms again? They usually don't revisit things like this so my guess is no. Or, when Sam was healed by Gadreel and Castiel, did that reset Sam to trial and factory defaults?
Sam would have to say the Enochian spell to complete the trials i.e. to board up Hell.

In 8.17 Goodbye Stranger, Castiel said about Sam, “You're damaged in ways even I can't heal,” and “It's something on the subatomic level and his electromagnetic field –“

When Castiel was extracting Gadreel’s grace from Sam in 9.11 First Born, Sam’s body started regressing to the state it was in before Gadreel. I think Castiel might have been lying when he said all the grace was gone. Maybe he knew he could not continue extracting the grace without risking Sam’s life because Sam is permanently changed by the trials.

Jared said the blood cure will come into play in season ten. I think it’s at least technically possible that the trials are dormant in Sam because he “let it go” at the end of 8.23 Sacrifice but if Sam cured a demon, it would start the trials again. And then Sam would only get worse, which might “mirror” Dean struggling with the mark of Cain. Eventually, Sam would have to be prepared to sacrifice his own life to close the Gates of Hell. It’s another matter whether he would actually end up dying.

Maybe curing Demon Dean as part of the trials would give Sam the extra juice that is needed.
debbab
# debbab 2014-09-28 13:52
The blood cure for curing demons can be done separate from the trials as seen by the priest in the old film from the bunker. One might think that Dean's stopping Sam and Sam's physical changes due to Gadreel may allow the blood cure without the trials. in other words, the trials would have start from the beginning to close the gates of hell, but a blood cure of a demon is a stand alone without the other two.
SanSummer1
# SanSummer1 2014-09-28 20:31
In 9.11 First Born, Sam’s body had such a violent reaction to Castiel extracting the grace that Gadreel had left in Sam that Castiel said, “Your body is regressing to the state it was in before Gadreel.” In 8.21 The Great Escapist, Sam talked about how the trials were purifying him. Whether or not that actually had something to do with Sam having demon blood in him, it seems that the trials changed him permanently. Thus, I think it’s possible that Sam wouldn’t have to start God’s obstacle course all over again.

Sam curing a demon might put the trials back in motion. However, I’m more inclined to believe there would have to be intent first (because of free will). So Sam could cure a demon and not have it mean he finished what he started with Crowley.

Maybe the brothers can get rid of the Mark of Cain only if they cure Dean as part of the third task. When Sam and Dean captured Abaddon, she seemed pretty confident that Father Max’s method would not work. Maybe she was right since she was somehow created through the power of the mark of Cain. But surely God’s trials would generate the sort of magic that could cure any demon even when purified blood injections alone wouldn’t work.
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-09-27 10:04
It's funny. I didn't realize this was a "Threads" type investigation until it was finished. Then when I was thining about how to post it on Twitter, I thought "Hey, you just wrote a pre-Threads without even knowing it!" Glad you like the Threads series!

My thoughts:
- Yeah, they have to heal Dean's body. Hannah probably. Metatron in jail? Possibly.
- Don't think they'll restart the trials story...yet. I have a theory that closing the gates of heaven and Hell is how the series ends, so I hold that out for later. I think Sam simply won't recite the spell but could still use the blood cure.
- I think Dean can kill, as long as it isnt with the Blade. He didn't go all spastic killer until Magnus gave him the Blade. That is why Cain threw it into the ocean - to get away from its demands.
- time travel? Yeah, that would work and it would be creative, but kind of lame. Don't think they'll play that card. Laughed at the whales though! Do you know how to get to Alameda and the nuclear wessel?!
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-09-27 10:17
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njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-09-26 20:48
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cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-26 22:58
Sam was trying to close the gates of hell by performing a spell. Curing a demon was part of the spell. Since Sam was cured of the trial injuries is he still under the influence of the trials? The priest didn't die when he cured the demon. So wouldn't Sam be able to cure Dean if he doesn't perform the other 2 parts of the trials? There were also a few other clues to what might happen to cure Dean. Abaddon was pulling souls to start an army maybe something to do with pulling out the soul will play a part. One theory I read was that Lucifer is the one who gave Cain the mark so is Lucifer the only one who can remove it? Sam has to make a deal with Lucifer? Maybe just keeping Dean on a regular human blood injection would be a temporary fix until they can find a way to rid him of the Mark.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-09-26 23:16
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E
# E 2014-09-28 18:45
I like the blood injection theory… that could be interesting. How bizarre would it be if Dean could manage to keep his blood lust under control by getting regular injections of Sam's blood which still might have some of Gadreels' grace in it? That would be a nice tie-in.
nappi815
# nappi815 2014-09-26 21:56
who else but me would like the samulet to play a part in healing dean?:D

I agree that dean won't be a demon for too long, nor should he be......I think he'll be saved by eppy 4.....don't know how sam will do it....just know he will ;)
E
# E 2014-09-26 22:27
Oh God YES!!!! Me, me! I want the Samulet to come into play to either save Dean from the Mark (not from being a demon, I think they can do that on their own) or to save Sam from what ever he plans to do to save Dean.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-26 23:19
Yes please....can you imagine the reaction from I would assume the majority of the fans if that happened. :)
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-09-26 23:19
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KELLY
# KELLY 2014-09-27 02:06
PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN!
E
# E 2014-09-26 22:56
I think Demon Dean for 4 eps is plenty. Dean has always been the POV character for the show, so it creates a bit of a problem for him to not react emotionally to everything and everyone. To whom or to where is that POV going to go while Dean is off drinking, whoring, killing and singing? To Sam? He hasn't had any significant POV since season 3, so while I would absolutely LOVE for the writers to get into Sam's head for a change, I am not counting on it… not even while we won't be in Deans. I would however like the MoC to stick around for a while and for the problem of that to maybe crop up in various troublesome ways for Dean. There's no reason that after he's cured of being a demon that he can't still have Blade issues… cravings and intense emotions and maybe spurts of violence. I would like him to feel at least a little bad about it though. I had a lot of problems with Dean at the end of season 9; I had a huge problem sympathizing with him. It think part of the problem that I had was that Dean didn't seem to struggle that much with what the blade was doing to him, at least not until the end. Basically I saw someone who was being caustic, unpleasant, violent and dictatorial and enjoying it and that was after being so stupid and reckless as to take the mark on in the first place. When he finally did seem to realize that he was becoming something he didn't want to be it was pretty late in the game, and he'd lost me by then. It's part of the reason that the finale didn't work for me; what exactly was Dean proud of? I didn't think either brother has behaved so nobly as for either of them to be especially proud of themselves. The entire sentiment rang hollow for me. So, if Dean is going to have issues with the blade and its hold over him (which could be an interesting and compelling story) I want to see him really struggle, not claim that he's the dictator and alienate everyone around him.

As far as the cure I think it WILL be the demon cure that was introduced in season 8, that would be a nice pay off to that bit of lore addition. As others have said though in order for the demon cure to have full effect I think it needs to adversely affect Sam. Maybe in some way it will re-trigger the trial effects that he was going through in season 8. If Sam doesn't suffer Dean won't really understand how committed Sam is to the relationship, especially after season 8's Not Looking fiasco which has had Dean pretty much assuming the worst about Sam's level of commitment since then. Unless Sam really sacrifices for Dean or puts his own life on the line to save his brother, I fear that Dean won't see the love that is so obviously there (well, obvious to me anyway) or that he won't believe it. Whatever Sam does it will have to be pretty big in order for Dean to understand Sam's sacrifice for him over his own lingering doubts and lacking sense of self worth.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-26 23:16
But wasn't that the point of what was happening to Dean? He was under the influence of the MOC and the blade. It was a demon blood parallel. Sam struggled with his addiction also but he thought that no matter what it was doing to him it was worth it as long as he killed Lilith. As he fell more and more under the influence of DB Sam became more arrogant (the difference being that Sam was still Sam). Dean was kind of in the same boat. He used killing the big bads as an excuse for his growing addiction. In Dean's case though he was turning into a demon with all the lack of human traits that goes with that territory. It was only as he was dying his love for Sam overcame the influence enough that he could tell Sam with his last breath that he was "proud of us". Dean felt that he and Sam had done good. My take anyway.
E
# E 2014-09-27 08:53
Quote:
But wasn't that the point of what was happening to Dean? He was under the influence of the MOC and the blade. It was a demon blood parallel
Hi Cheryl, yeah, I think that was exactly the point…. that it WAS supposed to be a parallel to the demon blood thing in season 4. I just think that they did a way better job in season 4 than they did in season 9 in balancing the arrogance and the pathos. I sympathized with Sam. He was fighting against something he had ZERO control over. He was made victim by his mother, circumstance beyond his control and was being manipulated by a master. His struggle against these things was more forced on him than Dean's struggle with the blade. Sam did get more arrogant but I never got the sense that he was relishing in his powers; they hurt him, made him feel pain he agonized over his choices (He said to Chuck "I wish I could stop" and when he asked Bobby to kill him), he pleaded with Dean to back him up etc… he showed terrible and tremendous regret over so many thing and in so many episodes. WIth Dean, (to me, this is MO and MO only, I know others will not agree) he took the blade of his own free will and without asking one single question about what it is he was getting into, which from a seasoned hunter is just plain dumb. He LIKED the killing even slowing things down so he could relish it more and watch the fear in the eyes of those he was killing. He said things like "This is a dictatorship" instead of things like "I wish I could stop" and because it was his choice to take on the blade in the first place, when it started to affect him badly my reaction was more "See dumbass, too late to complain about it now… you should have thought about it better when you choose to take it on in the first place." If Dean had been tricked the way Sam was tricked or fighting against something that he had no control over (like being fed demon blood when you were six months old because your mother sold you out) then it would have been easier to sympathize with Dean despite all of the blades negative effects. If he'd been shown to feel remorse more while he was under the influence, say after a kill, like Sam did, then I could have sympathized more. But until the last episode or two he just relished in his power, got increasingly violent, turned on his friends (Cas and Tessa) and his brother and enjoyed himself in the killing then simply disregarded it afterwards. I understand what they were doing with Dean and understand that its a parallel with what they were doing with Sam in season 4. For me the difference is that I never stopped caring for Sam, never stopped seeing his struggle. I did not always agree with what he was doing, but I believed in his belief that he was doing what he had to do. Not so much with Dean and even though he was becoming a demon and that many of the traits he was exhibiting were demon like, we still need to care about him as a character, fear for him and what he's facing, and basically, I didn't. I tried to, I wanted to, but I didn't. I know I am in the minority here, but that's how I felt about it.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-27 10:59
I know what you are saying and I don't disagree. The DB storyline was a 5 year arc. It was developed and fleshed out. Maybe this is just the beginning of the MOC story and we haven't seen all there is to it yet. I also believe that Crowley manipulating Dean into receiving the mark is a loose parallel to Sam's affliction. The difference being that Sam could choose to use his abilities or not (hmm maybe a return of Sam's powers to save Dean?) Once he became addicted to DB like any addiction it started to consume him. But they were his choices. Evidently the mark is something Dean can't control or "I can't turn it off". He wants to stop but he cant. If he doesn't continue to kill he will die or as we saw worse. That is why in the end he knew it was better that he die than become the thing that he has hated (killed his parents and cursed his brother) all of his life. But Crowley's big long con was to turn Dean into his ally. There is apparently more to the story and I for one am very curious to see where it goes.
nappi815
# nappi815 2014-09-27 11:52
I don't really think we were supposed to sympathize with dean, but more like understand where he was coming from..if you get what I mean. I don't know how many of you saw the s9 interview, so I won't reveal what was said, but based on what I saw....I believe that this season was pretty much the Winchester manual of what not to do....maybe it's part of the lesson in the Winchester gospel....I didn't read it, but doesn't the bible even contain mistakes made by humans...I think this is the ultimate lesson for the boys...and I believe the result of the lesson will be important...imp ortant for the Winchesters and for those who are destined to read the Winchester gospel....which will hopefully inevitably triumph over evil... in the spn world of course;)

my thought on the samulet: well as I recall, Sammy once told dean: " uncle bobby gave it to me and it was really special" right before he told him it was a pony of course....:D oh that Winchester snark...anyway cas had implied that it could find God, which I kind of wondered if that was literal or not, because I believe Dean was wearing the samulet around chuck...and we soon learned that Chuck was God...
then my wheels start spinning...dean and sam did find chuck didn't they...so I guess they found God. That's the literal sense...but who's to say anything would happen to the amulet...was it supposed to vibrate, turn hot pink...I mean how were they to know they found God? Cas wasn't working on fact, he was working on hearsay...I hear differently dean...but heard from who? while it may be true that the samulet would lead them to God...it didn't mean that the thing would go off like a beacon..would God allow that? would God not be more subtle when we find him? then to have a glowing or vibrating piece of jewelry? if the samulet was meant to find God...and they found chuck...did it not do it's intended job according to Cas? just a thought. Dean was also wearing the samulet when he arrived in heaven, a place he didn't believe in or at the very least a place he never believed he would end up...isn't that in a way finding God? God created heaven and he did it for us.

sam was given the amulet to give to his father on john's revenge quest to find the demon. what if that amulet was to protect john? he never got it...but dean did. maybe it was always supposed to go to dean. ;) what if the amulet was to protect john from becoming the very thing he hated and was hunting...what if the revenge would've consumed him and he ended up losing his own humanity? wasn't it john who was supposed to break in hell, but he held out he was stronger than the demons though...so they went for plan b and then they went to dean...in hell, didn't dean become the torturer and enjoy it? didn't sam have the amulet when dean was in hell? I believe sam returned it to him in lazarus rising...so maybe the amulet was for dean after all. I think so. ;)

so I got to thinking that maybe it's not so much the literal location alone of finding God. Aren't we said to have a piece of God in all of us because he created us? I'm thinking that the samulet was protecting dean. it was a gift from his brother and a gift given out of love and the utmost of trust in dean. dad lied to sam.. dean told him the truth. sam said it in salvation...."y ou always had my back. even when I couldn't depend on anyone, I could always depend on you....I just think that God and Sam's love and trust for dean was the source of it's power. it's protection.

dean made the mistake of throwing it away when he gave up on everything. he gave up on sam. he gave up on cas. he gave up on God. he gave up on himself. I can't help but notice, looking back, that things haven't gone so well for dean since he hasn't been wearing the samulet. and I include the way in which he thinks about himself.....tha t ultimately has led to his downfall and descent into demonhood.

so in my fangirl world, it's my hope that dean wearing the samulet protects him from himself while he bears the moc. whether that be in the literal sense or the hypothetical sense...just the fact that dean is wearing this amulet, which goes back to their childhood....of one brother who loved and trusted his other brother to give him the one special gift he had...given to them by their surly drunken old uncle...a special little trinket of protection..... because if you think about it...sam wanted to protect his brother and at 8 yrs old, this is the only way he knew how....and that to me represents a brother's love ....a special bond that has continued on to this day....so if dean is protected by the mere thought of what the samulet means or the actual samulet itself....what does it matter as long as it keeps him human...;)

that's my theory that i'll play around with til we get to see how sam really saves dean....but hey you never know right? :D
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-27 13:27
I don't know I was devastated for a week (maybe still am) that Dean died and then turned into something that he has hated and hunted all of his life. It just crushed me. I know they were his choices and he took on the mark without knowing all of the consequences (trials anyone) but that doesn't lessen the impact of what happened to Dean. And now Sam has to find a way to save him that hopefully won't involve another sacrifice that ends in the world suffering or a Winchester death (namely Sam).
E
# E 2014-09-28 19:00
Actually Cas said that the amulet would "Burn hot in the presence of God." That seems pretty specific and obvious, so if Chuck really were God the amulet would have burned hot in his presence not just led the boys to him. I'm not sure that Chuck is God, he could have still just been a profit, but was begin called "home" because his job was done. Besides, the other angels have made it pretty plain that God is still missing…so if it had been Chuck why didn't he go back to heaven when he disappeared in Swan Song? Where is he? Maui?
LEAH
# LEAH 2014-09-28 19:04
With Jesse?:) I am not convinced that Chuck was God either.
E
# E 2014-09-28 19:12
I think Jesse is in australia.:p
LEAH
# LEAH 2014-09-28 19:28
Ah yes Australia. I just remember the surfboards and waves.:) Chuck/God could be there as well, ridin' the waves;)
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-09-28 19:34
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LEAH
# LEAH 2014-09-28 19:43
I think that was kinda what they were going for but still ambiguous enough to leave questions. We could expand that game to include a few other characters. :)
eilf
# eilf 2014-09-28 21:30
Cecily. Well, he said at dinner on Wednesday night, that you would have to choose between this world, the next world, and Australia.

Algernon. Oh, well! The accounts I have received of Australia and the next world, are not particularly encouraging. This world is good enough for me, cousin Cecily.

Oscar Wilde was an SPN girl ...

*I suspect this post doesn't make any sense but I have wine in me so it makes sense to me ;)
E
# E 2014-09-28 18:54
Of course, the bitter irony being that by allowing himself to die, Dean actually become the thing the most feared becoming. It would have been better if he had fought to stay alive. Such is the way of this show!
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-28 22:33
Ah Dean, if only....but what is an impulsive act first worry about the consequences later kind of guy to do.
eilf
# eilf 2014-09-28 22:44
That is an interesting point E. Sam at the beginning of the season made the same decision with the forethought to demand that he could never become the thing he feared the most, and then didn't go through with it. The decisions bookended the season. Not sure which was the worse decision. Maybe there just isn't any way for them to win?

Of course they were both conned, Sam by Dean and Dean by Crowley. Maybe their OWN decision making is good if they don't listen to other people.
E
# E 2014-09-29 06:32
Crowley may have manipulated Dean to a certain extent, but either there wasn't as much attention paid to it or the writing was just not as good; I didn't get the epic level of manipulation from Crowley and Dean that I got from Ruby and Sam. Maybe it's because Crowley manipulated Dean for about 3 episodes and Ruby manipulated Sam for two years. The planning, plotting and payoff were all MUCH more satisfying in season 4. Sam looked truly duped while Dean looked reckless. They didn't spend enough time on Dean's reasons for taking the blade therefore he looked like a fool for his choices. And with Sam it wasn't' just Ruby manipulating Sam, it was that at the angels manipulating Dean at the same time to drive wedge between them. Even Castiel betrayed them at one point by letting Sam out of the panic room while detoxing. And they kept the whole plan under wraps so that we weren't sure what was going on or who to trust. I was totally unsure who was on the side of right in season 4; I really felt that maybe Sam was right and making the correct choice. And it turned out ultimately that neither side was right, they were both wrong, the angels and the demons because they were in cahoots with one another to start the apocalypse. So, Sam falling for a ploy like that seems reasonable even understandable. Dean just got lucky that Cas decided to rebel when he did, otherwise he would have killed Lillith too. With Crowley/Dean I felt Dean was a moron for even speaking with Crowley let alone going anywhere with him and letting himself be influenced by him. I mean, geez Dean knows Crowley and what he's done and what he's capable of and yet he put his trust in HIM? And I don't care how "hurt" and "isolated" and "self punishing" Dean was because of Sam's anger and Kevin's death or the possession. He could have stayed with Sam and taken it like a man instead of running off like a brat to wallow in self pity. The set up and the reasons behind the decisions made are just not as good IMO, so I found myself not caring as much. If Dean had been told that he had to take the Mark because it was (for some reason) the only way to save Sam after the possession then I could have bought into it better. If he'd truly been between a rock and a hard place, or they'd spent the whole of this season having Crowley slowly get Dean into his clutches and had the finale of this season been Dean taking on the blade, then it might have worked better. It was all too rushed with not enough groundwork underscoring the characters choices.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-29 10:39
Maybe this is just the beginning of the story for Dean. Ruby's true motives for the manipulation of Sam wasn't revealed until the last few episodes of S4. Crowley has been manipulating the Winchesters (why he doesn't just kill them needs to be explained at some point) for going on 5 years. I don't disagree that Sam's story was better told but I just don't think we know the whole story yet. These last few years are definitely not the first 5 but since I'm invested in the show I am trying to be as open minded as I can be. I can't say it hasn't been difficult at times.
E
# E 2014-09-30 20:40
Still, 2 episodes of set up vs. 2 years of set up. No matter where the story goes now, Crowley manipulated Dean for a New York Minute and Dean fell for it. Not enough set up no matter what happens next. Dean was too easily duped for a seasoned hunter who's known Crowley for going on 5 years (season 5 is when he was introduced?). Ruby was an unknown when she showed up so we might have reason to buy into her spiel as we'd seen/heard nothing about her prior. But CROWLEY? Anyone who trusts that guy is just asking for it. He's the ONLY adversary who's proven to be the Winchester's match and he's done so by not underestimating them. So why did Dean underestimate Crowley? It just makes him look dumb, and I hate dumb Dean; he only shows up when TPTB need him dumb to further the plot. That's been happening to both boys a lot in the past two years.
nappi815
# nappi815 2014-09-29 22:25
here comes my two cents:p:D
I thought that the parallels between s4 and s9 weren't just about what was the same, but also what was different. I think what ties to both is sam's pov vs. dean's pov. i'm gonna spill the beans so spoiler alert for anyone who didn't see the s9 special feature. carver gave sam's pov, which by the way is what I've been saying all along:D. sam believes he's cursed. he believes everyone he's ever loved has died because of him. it's why sam is so ready to always sacrifice himself for the greater good. He doesn't feel worthy of living because all he does is fail those he loves or cause them to die. the way sam sees it..his mother is dead because of him, jess is dead because of him, his dad is dead because of him and dean went to hell because of him. he said it in provenance and he said it in playthings...ev eryone around him dies. this has been sam's headspace since show began but most especially of late.

s4 sam: sam can't save dean from hell. he's devasted to the point of being suicidal. he tried to switch places but all for naught. he spent most of his time drinking and being reckless, totally engulfed in self hatred. ruby, as manipulative as she was, gave sam a reason to go on and i'm not talking about revenge. I don't doubt that sam's desire to kill Lilith was for what she did to dean. he wanted that bitch's head on a plate...bloody. as time went on it wasn't about killing her for revenge, it was about stopping the apocalypse. It was about redemption. He failed at saving dean, but he could save others. Sam was manipulated into drinking the db. ruby let sam believe that it was actually the blood that made him stronger. sam drank the blood because he believed it made him strong enough to kill Lilith. at first, before dean came back, it was so sam could kill her, more than likely make her bring dean back. either way sam was prepared to die engaging her. ruby wasn't letting that happen. she gave him a purpose other than revenge.. he was sending demons back to hell in a way in which the vessel survived. so sam was saving people. as time went on, and dean was back, it wasn't only about revenge anymore. it was about stopping the apocalypse. it was about saving the lives of billions. it's true he didn't care what the blood was doing to him. he accepted it. but for sam it was worth it because he would save the world and at the same time maybe his brother would see that and be proud of him and not see him as the failure sam believed dean to see him as. sam never enjoyed killing, he never relished in anyone's death. no matter how much db he drank, he never lost sight of his goal, which was to save everyone...beca use he needed to ..because he failed at saving his mom, jess, his father and dean.

s9 sam: sam's pov is still the same as it's always been. he believes everyone he loves dies because of him and now we can add kevin to the list. why do you think he's always so willing to sacrifice himself for someone else? he sees himself as unworthy. All he does in the end is hurt the people he loves . so it stands to reason that he would jump in the pit in swan song, or take on the trials to close the gates of hell forever so his brother doesn't have to or would rather stay and have death promise no one could ever bring him back....because from sam's pov(this is straight from carver) he believes he's cursed and does more harm than good. so for sam, saving people is more important than being alive. It's his way of redeeming himself to those he believes he failed. So when sam tells dean that under the same circumstances he wouldn't do the same...he meant that if sam, like dean, had gone into dean's head and heard what he wanted and needed most, if sam knew how dean felt he wouldn't have taken dean's choice away from him the way dean had. sam loves dean that much, to follow his wishes no matter how much it would destroy him; and because sam doesn't want to disappoint or fail his brother again.

so sam is hurt and angry and ridden with guilt because, from sam's perspective, he has once again killed someone he loves. and this is sam's flaw. his thinking that he's unworthy and in the long run the world and those he loves would be better off without him, because he only brings them pain or death. none of which is true. this pov also drives sam to focus more on the greater good and explains his willingness to sacrifice himself for them. in sam's head he's atoning for those he believes died because of him.

dean's pov is more about family and how he thinks the world should be regarding his family. dean's actions stem mostly from his love for his family, mostly sam, but sometimes his love for his family makes him selfish and he often times disregards the other's pov. dean needs to learn to balance his selfishness with his selflessness, if that makes any sense. ;) both carver and berens flat out said what dean did was selfish. but it was never malicious and it was done out of love.

s9 dean believed he failed sam, not unlike sam's belief that he failed dean. dean sought to punish himself, not unlike sam trying to punish himself. sam, at first wanted to kill Lilith because of what she did to his brother. dean thought killing abaddon would somehow enable sam to forgive him. they both went through addiction but with a significant difference. sam's addiction never changed who he was at heart. even with the db, sam always believed he was doing good. he was saving the vessel when he exorcised demons using his powers, he never relished in killing, he only relished the strength the db gave him. he never stopped believing and never stopped wanting to save lives. he never lost sight of redeeming himself. the moc however took away dean's humanity little by little. he did relish the kills.
the major difference that I saw, was that sam kept drinking the db because he honestly believed he could make up for his failures. in the end, for sam it wasn't only about revenge, it was also about redemption. it was about atoning for not saving dean. it was atoning for not saving jess or his mom or his dad.... dean never sought to atone when he took the moc. he took the moc as punishment. it wasn't about making things right with sam, at least the way I understand it, it was about getting sam to forgive him. but getting sam to forgive him without saying he was sorry or facing up to why it was he truly did to sam what he did. he took the moc because couldn't face the truth about himself.

what it boils down to ...at least for me.... sam: demon blood = power to kill Lilith=atonemen t....saving the lives of billions because he feels responsible for those he loves most dying because of him.
dean: moc + blade = self punishment + hope that sam will forgive him without dean having to work for that forgiveness

sam's pov: he's cursed and everyone he loves dies because of him....that's why saving others is more important to him than his own life.
dean's pov: family first...and that means sam above and beyond all others.

what the boys I hope will come to understand..... . I hope that sam comes to realize that he is worthy. he is valuable and not only to dean, but to the world. and his value is because he's alive. I hope he finally understands that dean loves him and values him not only because dean's world is a better place because he's in it, but because dean knows this world is a better place with him in it.
what I hope for dean is that he too comes to realize how worthy he is. that he understands how much sam truly does love him and that it's ok to have different ways of looking at things. just because sam doesn't see things exactly the way he does, it doesn't mean sam doesn't love him and wouldn't die for him in a heartbeat.

there's a change in the air....it's coming....under standing and acceptance. :) yee ha:D
B_Y_O
# B_Y_O 2014-09-27 00:43
Slightly off topic but I just have to say this... I can't stand that S10 poster. It looks like they're about to be groped by demons or given scalp massages by angels...
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-09-27 16:52
I had to laugh when I read your post! I haven't run into too many people who like that poster! I had to go back and look at the demon and angel hands since you put that image in my mind, and you are right! That is exactly what it looks like!:D
LEAH
# LEAH 2014-09-27 17:36
I had the same thought when I first saw that poster! Well more the "groping" part. I have found out since I am not the only one. :)
nappi815
# nappi815 2014-09-27 18:04
you could look it at that way....or you could look at it like the hands of us fans...all that fan love...just wanting to simply touch those boys....;)
novi
# novi 2014-09-27 09:52
I wonder if the Mark could be returned to Cain? I mean it would help to solve the problem with demonic nature of Dean, to some extent at least. Or, maybe, it's time to summon good old Death again. After all, he once gave Dean a hand saving Sam's soul from the cage, so he may be able to cure or "purify" Deanmon's soul now. The poor soul, all wounded and damaged, with the holes from Alaster's hooks, partly dead where Famine touched it, now twisted and screwed up by the Mark and the Blade. I can't wait to see if Castiel would recoil at the mere sight at Dean's black eyes. And Sam! I hope they won't allow Sam to cure Dean with his blood and thus sacrifice himself, again! Besides, this would be too obvious.
suebsg9
# suebsg9 2014-09-27 21:20
Dean died so without the demon in him to keep him alive and also the fact that the mark can only not make him feed if he is a demon mean wouldn't Dean die??? No one cured Dean from the angel sword and the mark is playing a big part so he has to either find Cain who is still a demon and find out how to get rid of the mark or find a way as a demon not need to feed the mark. Does that make sense I mean Dean was dead from the angel sword Cas would have to cure him from that so I am thinking patch work but Dean is still able to keep him sense of humor and himself around.
nappi815
# nappi815 2014-09-27 21:54
thing is, there is no demon in him. he is the demon. the moc was slowly burning away dean's humanity. the blade with the mark accelerated that process....dean would've became a demon whether he died or not. i'm not so sure that him getting stabbed by metatron will even be mentioned again. it's just as likely that dean will already be cured of that wound....most likely being self healed during the process of turning into a demon. I don't see the stabbing as an issue for dean at all.....I think the real issue will be dean trying to deal with the effects of the moc and trying to retain the humanity that I believe sam will help return to him.
suebsg9
# suebsg9 2014-09-27 22:04
If you go back to the SDCC Carver did bring it up that Sam would have to save Dean from the moc and demon and also not dying from the angel blade. He brought it up that right at the beginning about Sam's mission to save Dean. Dean can only maintain the mark if he is a demon that is how Cain is alive. I think its coming from having to talk to Cain or his wife. Since she isn't alive hopefully they can bring back said actor who played Cain to get rid of mark. But I think Cas needs to be healed to heal Dean from the angel sword. I think still its patch work of Dean and the demon. JMO
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2014-09-28 00:00
I was thinking that the power of love would save Dean. That’s how Cain and Benny were saved and is a continuing theme in the show. That and the Samulet. I always felt that Sam took it out of the garbage and because of all the stuff that happened afterward, he simply did not remember he saved it. One day he finds it in an old plaid shirt. Now, I don’t believe it has any power rather it’s what it represents to Dean. They can’t close Heaven because dead people can’t get in, remember Kevin?
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-09-28 11:29
I'm not very optimistic about the Samulet. Jensen once said that one of the reasons they got rid of it was because it was inconvenient to always have to wear it during filming. They acually wrote it being thrown away to relieve Jensen of having to have it all the time. My personal opinion is that it will show up in the very last episode of the series. Speaking of the last episode..

I HATE that J2 keep talking about the end of the series (referring to their CW interview that we just posted in the spoilers section). It makes me ill just thinking about it! Especially since they both want their characters killed off! Sorry, just had to add that.

Regarding my previously stated theory about them closing the gates of heaven and hell to end the series, I agree that souls (e.g. Kevin) being locked out would be a major obstacle to that solution. I am assuming, though, that the current soul shut down is a side-effect of the WAY that Metatron closed Heaven, i.e. via a spell to empty out heaven. He didn't actually "pull the lever" (as he put it) via the spell in the angel tablet. Doubtful that God's pan to shut Heaven would cast out the angels. After all, they were his creation and that is their home. I am hoping that S10 addresses Kevin's situation but right now Metatron's spell isn't reversed. The angels just found his secret passageway to "sneak" into Heaven. Crowley said the spell couldn't be reversed. IF he is telling the truth, where would that leave the souls in the veil? I consequently doubt he was telling the truth. Then again, to contradict myself, he told Dean "I never lied Dean. That is fundamental". I think that statement is significant in more ways than just Dean.

So s10 starts with the angels able to sneak back into heaven via the back door, but the human souls still stuck in the veil.
LEAH
# LEAH 2014-09-28 12:25
Heh, I had read about Jensen not being sad about the departure of the amulet. I have mentioned it a few times in the past during one of our amulet discussions. Jensen said it was constantly flying up and hitting him in the face/mouth during fight and action scenes. Someone here even said it chipped his teeth once. So he may even have been the one pushing to get rid of it!:) However I am one of the ones who would like to see it's return! Sorry Jensen you might have to take one for the team.;)
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-09-28 18:13
.....
nappi815
# nappi815 2014-09-28 19:27
i agree. dean doesn't even have to be seen wearing it all the time, so Jensen doesn't have to wear it. it's just dean getting it back...putting it on with a smile.....that' s it....just knowing he has it is enough...I don't have to see him actually wearing it in every eppy....like njspn fan said, it could be worn under all those layers....;)

if they can make a cheesy veronica mars movie and two x file movies...I don't see any reason why we can't get one...so i'm not counting the boys out yet....;)

personally I don't think it's necessary for the boys to get killed. but if they did kill the boys....well, they've been to heaven and they have lots of friends up there....and who really ever stays dead on supernatural... ..even killing them, I can see them being brought back in a movie.....

I don't like hearing them talk about the end of series either...but on the bright side, I don't think that's happening yet. ;)

I don't think heaven or hell should be closed. heaven needs to be opened for the souls and hell needs to be open for the evil souls.....why close heaven anyway? the only one who wanted heaven closed was metatron so he can become the new God. if God wanted heaven closed, i'm sure he could manage to do it all on his own....
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2014-09-28 19:48
.....
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-28 22:26
How about Sam uses the amulet as part of a spell to cure Dean of the MOC. In doing so the amulet burns a bright white light consuming Dean and when the light explodes Dean is cured and the amulet is gone. :)
Jared said at CC that he would be up for 2 or 3 more years. I think once his kids get to school age he wants to be a bigger part of their lives. So maybe S12?
eilf
# eilf 2014-09-28 22:38
I think that if there is ever a possibility that the amulet will reappear it would be in the 200th episode. I can't see them doing any more with it than that, it has been gone too long really. But I agree a single use that destroys it forever would be a good compromise.

It would be nice if the voicemail were dealt with in the 200th episode too ....
LEAH
# LEAH 2014-09-29 00:16
The voicemail is something I never worried about much after the fact. I am not sure why but I just assumed that Sam, at the first opportunity, said something like "Dude, what was up with the s***** voicemail?" and it got straightened out. I can't imagine Sam would have just let that go. Anyway that was what some dusty corner of my brain did to resolve that voicemail scene. It would have been so much better had the show devoted a few seconds to it!:)
eilf
# eilf 2014-09-29 15:42
Hi Leah, I totally agree with you that the writers are happy that the phonecall has been dealt with. I think the way you see it is actually the way that the shows writers see it and so on a canon and fundamental level you are correct to say the guys are over it. I don't want to argue with that. I just don't see how they got there.

It doesn't work for ME on a story point of view though. The way I see the first half of Season 5 there is no way Sam could possibly have doubted the truth of the doctored message. Why would he? Why would he even question it? Sam always accepts all of whatever blame is being thrown at him (ETA: this is not just meant to include Dean if that is how it reads, I meant in general the show seems to need to put Sam in the wrong and it actually uses a lot of different formats to do it. I get that this is my Samgirl bias showing though) and it is infuriating at this stage how he never questions it.

ETA: I am removing most of my post and will find somewhere less controversial to post it :D New Post ("http://www.th ewinchesterfami lybusiness.com/ lets-discuss/18 376-let-s-discu ss-in-defense-o f-sam-wincheste r")
nightsky
# nightsky 2014-09-29 20:07
Nice strategic move!
eilf
# eilf 2014-09-29 20:59
Thanks :D

Not much new to say on the whole voicemail issue ... though Leah and I are into our second hour on the subject elsewhere ;) I didn't mean to respond to her lighhearted post in the way it ended up happening. Sorry Leah!

My, those links were complicated to do ....
Sharon
# Sharon 2014-09-29 04:48
I know this will sound horrible but I am somebody who does not want the Amulet back. Whatever it represented is long gone and after last season I would not feel comfortable seeing it back.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2014-09-29 08:49
I too do not want the amulet to be back.Even if it did return i want it to be with Sam and not given by Sam to Dean.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-28 14:06
Many years ago I read a review by Sylvia Bond (her recaps are almost as epic as Alice's) and her perfect ending for the show was Sam and Dean in the Impala sitting at a crossroads Sam reading news of the bizarre Dean behind the wheel. Sam looks over at Dean and says "Zombies or Vampires". Dean looks at the reports smiles guns the engine and turns left. Fade to black. I know I would feel better just knowing they are still out there protecting humanity.
E
# E 2014-09-28 19:10
I LOVED Sylvia Bond's episode reviews. They were so entertaining and informative with the right amount of critique balanced out with a healthy dose of sqeee. I miss those reviews so much, but like many of the best reviewers out there (Mo Ryan included) they've grown frustrated with the show and stopped their active reviews. I miss those reviews so very much and applaud Alice, my other favorite reviewer for sticking with it all these years. :D
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2014-09-28 22:17
Sylvia's were the first reviews I ever read about the show and I read everyone one of them. That inspired me to seek out other reviewers and I stumbled onto blogcritics and Alice. I think in Sylvia's case she grew disillusioned but I think her health was a factor as well. Thank goodness we still have the WFB and the wonderful writers that still review the episodes for us. I was sorry that Laura Prudom was let go from Huffington Post. I really looked forward to her opinion and enjoyed her love of the show.
amyh
# amyh 2014-09-28 18:42
I never want to see the amulet again. I'm sorry....but once Dean threw it away it ceased being special or having any meaning. Well that and they made it something between Dean and Castiel aqnd their daddy isues. I hope Sam respected Deans actions and left it in the garbage. Besides Dean hasn't shown an ounce of regret for throwing it away. i cant see him even recognising the thing if it made an appearence again.
LEAH
# LEAH 2014-09-28 19:13
Dean was depressed and discouraged about EVERYTHING, ready to give up, and just heard God had no intention of helping them so as it had most recently been used to seek out God I believe it was in the forefront of his mind. I believe it was an impulsive gesture (as are many of Deans action) and if he saw it again he would be touched. Of course that is just my head cannon!:)
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2014-09-30 15:55
I can't stop looking at Jensen in his James Dean pose. Sorry
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2014-09-30 17:57
I love Jensen's James Dean Look. Sorry, that's all I can think about. This is the best pic of him I've ever seen. Daneel should show this to JJ when she's 18 and fighting with her parents about how they're old-fashioned. "This is what Dad looked like when he did that show".