But first!
THEN
So, there was this hunter who put his trust in, and worked with a vampire,
Wait. What? Ummm.
Ok, before filler-interruptus,
Sam was in the midst of the trials set forth by God and they're making him go all Doc Holliday.
Dean was hoping an old friend could keep an eye out for his little brother, until said friend beat the snot out of Dean and absconded with the angel tablet.
Castiel is no longer under the influence of Naomi and is currently riding a Greyhound bus.
Crowley is pissed.
Naomi is pisseder.
Kevin is studying half a demon tablet and living on hotdogs and pep pills, one supposes.
Garth is...Garthing and persumably, checking in on people left and right.
Benny is,somewhere, probably waiting by the phone, whilst sipping O+.
They killed Meg! YOU BASTARDS!
NOW
It's time for Trial Number 2! OMG OMG OMG OMG! Somebody hold me! (Dean?)
So shall we look at the synopsis?
SAM AND DEAN FACE THE SECOND TRIAL — Sam and Dean respond to a call from Kevin who is terrified after hearing Crowley's voice in his head. After hearing Kevin's news, Sam and Dean team up with reaper named Ajay (guest star Assaf Cohen), who helps them deal with the second trial from the Tablet. Meanwhile, Dean receives a visit from Naomi (guest star Amanda Tapping) and realises he must find Benny and ask for a huge favour.
Guy Bee directed the episode written by Eugenie Ross-Leming & Brad Buckner.
Sounds fantastic! Plus it's directed by Guy Bee and written by,well, looky, there's those 2 things I was talking about earlier.
Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner are not the best writers on the team. "A Little Slice of Kevin" is probably their strongest episode to date and well, that was a big mytharc one,so maybe they're good at mytharc,and getting Dean's gear off,well twice, but I'm thankful for both times. But seeing their names makes me groan a little,I just hope Mr Bee, who is a lovely director with a great eye and who is particularly proficient at tense, emotional scenes and action scenes, can pull their script together,if indeed, it needed pulling.
So, though this episode really does look and sound amazing, I bet most of us are going in with all our digits crossed (and safely out of Crowley's reach).
Let's check out the CW promo,
OK, now I will admit something here, I screencapped this to have a closer look at a few frames,
So an innocent soul has to be rescued from Hell. I'm pretty sure we're all thinking it's a certain dead hunter, with a penchant for trucker caps. I have to say, I think we might be right (but then again, maybe we're wrong),but I'm going to do a little jig around this one, because this preview is supposed to be spoiler-lite.Let's look at the Sneak Peek, because, well,
Sam's off to Hell, Dean ain't happy about it,but he's rolling with it, because what else can he do, let's face it; a determined Sam is a force to be reckoned with! Just look at how he storms off, all hot like that. Sorry...but storming Sam is smokin'!
I really like that he's packing the demon knife! I hope there's no metal detector at the border!
Sam's supposed to be back in 24 hours,but I'm guessing, seeing as Benny get's that phone call, he's a no show.
That lurking lurker who lurks might have something to do with Sam getting trapped down below. One of Crowley's henchmen? One of Naomi's?
So Dean hollers for a vampire to help him retrieve his little brother who's "stuck down there". I'm assuming that's because Benny's not mortal so he can cross the border, where Dean cannot.
If Benny's off to Hell to find Sam, what are the possible outcomes?
Door number 1: Benny saves Sam and so Sam sees the side of Benny that his brother trusts.
Door number 2: Benny sacrifices himself/gets trapped for Sam, proving to Sam he was on the up and up and proving to Dean he was a good friend and making both of them feel like crap.
Door number 3: Benny can't save Sam and comes back empty handed and Dean has to figure out some other way to get Sam home safely.
Door number 4: This is when we discover Benny was playing us all along and he's in cahoots with Crowley/Naomi or he's just plain evil.
Door number 5: He tells Dean to stick it.
I'm sure there are other options. Like none of the above. I think doors 1 – 3 are most likely. Possibly number 2. But who knows,and I'm rubbish at theories, so I'm going to stop now.
Oh look... CHCH promo - which really decides not to bother with beating around the bush! So much for my jig!
What if the soul being rescued thing is a trap? What if that's just what Crowley makes Kevin hear in his head? Maybe Crowley thinks if he can get Sam into his crib and hold Sam hostage, Dean will do anything to get him back, including getting his hands on the angel tablet, however he must and handing it over to the King of Hell. Or maybe there's no trap, the trial is just the trial and when that person turns around he says, "Idjit, why'd you come after me". Damn it, I'm theorising again (and making myself cry)!
On that soul being rescued thing,even if that soul gets out of Hell, it doesn't mean that soul is coming back to us. Remember what happened to John? This could be about releasing that soul to Heaven where it belongs. Or the whole thing could be a fake out. So don't get your hopes up!
Poor Sam, having to revisit his worst nightmare. Great big hero! I would imagine this part of Hell would be vastly different from where he was trapped with Lucifer,but will it play on his mind? What other horrors is he going to see down there? Thankfully he seems to be mentally strong, even if his body is getting beaten about by the trials. Which begs the question, what will be the physical outcome of trial number 2?
And what of Naomi visiting Dean? He knows her name now, is he about to find out more about her? Are we? Is she going to try to reason with Dean and get Dean onside in this whole angel tablet fiasco (good luck sweetie)? Or does Dean pray to Cass, hopping his "frenemy" will help Sam and Naomi eavesdrops? Does Naomi go to Dean and offer to help get Sam out of Hell, if Dean helps her get the tablet back? Does she have information that makes Dean contact Benny for help,in which case, does that bring us back to the Benny may be in league with/an unwitting pawn of, Naomi. Or is it Dean's idea to contact Benny, because Benny's the one non-mortal "person" he thinks he can call on right now. What's Naomi up to! Why am I theorising again?
Part of me wonders if this episode is going to be a "to be continued" number. GOD FORBID. It just feels like it might be. Like if Sam get's trapped or if Dean's Benny plan doesn't work.
There's no synopsis for episode 20 available yet either, which is weird. The title doesn't make me think it will roll on from this though. It's "Pac-Man Fever". Unless,see now I'm seeing Sam running through tunnels in Hell being chased by a Pac-Man! Picking up souls along the way for points! I'd so play that! Sorry,I digressed! But, I'm pretty sure episode 20 is the one with Felicia Day.
You know, we've never really seen Hell. We saw a brief look at Dean's BDSM Hell, we saw Sam on fire, we saw Crowley's queue to no-where (so damn good, that idea...), but this looks like a part of Hell where souls are locked up and tortured for eternity. It may sound weird, but I'm so looking forward to seeing it! I hope we get to spend more time down below with Sam than up top with fretting Dean,though I seriously want to know what Naomi wants and I'm quite looking forward to seeing Benny again and I do love fretting Dean, He's so pretty when he frets. Wait. Redundant statement.
Another thing about this episode...there were no promotional photos...maybe they were too spoiler (maybe the on-set photographer had the week off). So the caps in this article are from the preview clip - hence they're a tad on the ropey side.
About the title...ummm, well I've never heard of it, but while googling away, I found an entry for a British TV comedy called, The Mighty Boosh. There's an episode of this show called Bollo. In this episode, a Reaper named Phil, drives a taxi and mistakenly picks up and takes a man called Howard, who is dressed as a sick gorilla called Bollo, to Monkey Hell where Howard gets trapped. Howard is able to contact his friend Vince via a haunting and tells Vince of his predicament. Vince goes to see a Shaman called Naboo who tells Vince the information he needs in order to get to Limbo. When in Limbo, Vince finds Phil the Reaper and has him take him to Monkey Hell to rescue Howard. Anyway, long story short (which involves really good hair, believe it or not), Howard and Vince escape and the natural balance is restored and the sick gorilla Bollo, dies.
I kid you not.
Man, this was a long one,sorry! It just looks so damn interesting and awesome and epic and all the cool stuff I love about "Supernatural", except for those 2 things.
Anyhoo, I betcha nothing is what we think it's going to be anyway! Because this is "Supernatural" and they enjoy screwing with our minds. Why we like them so, is beyond me!
I've given up on Carver ever previewing again...*wibble*.
So, what are you're theories. Come on, I bet you have a bunch way better than mine!
Sound off in the comments. Here's to an episode worthy of our anticipation!
Enjoy and I'll see you later in reviewland.
-sweetondean
Comments
I saw a synopsis by TV.com, that said Naomi needs Dean to find Benny. Now I'm not sure, if they only rephrased it strange, or if they have any more extra info than the CW let out in official synopsis.
If the logic (mine) is complicated enough it doesn't need to make sense
Also why does Sam look like he is in Purgatory and not hell in some of those scenes?
*sigh* Or maybe it's Door number 1 (I hate Door #1 and Door #2 isn't much better).
I also thought it might be a mini cliff-hanger for the mini-hiatus, but yeah, not sure about it now you've mentioned the Pac-Man episode.
Regarding the title, I assumed this was referencing the classic Robert De Niro film, Taxi Driver. It's the film that a young Jodie Foster got nominated for an academy award. I actually haven't watched it, but some scenes and lines are pretty famous. Like De Niro's 'You talkin' to me' line.
Also, I had a quick look at the synopsis and there is another De Niro line, where he shouts that she "will burn in hell like the rest of them".
In the synopsis on IMDb it says that Travis (De Niro), a night shift taxi driver, is a loner who has strong opinions about what is right and wrong with humanity. He believes New York has deteriorated into a cesspool and decides he has to do whatever he can to make the world a better place, including saving a 12-year old girl (Foster) from her pimp and her life of prostitution.
I see a direct parallel here that Sam has to try to save an innocent soul, which is what Travis set out to do in Taxi Driver.
By the way, Travis was mentally unstable... and, although Sam seems fine now, he has had his problems in this area. Plus returning to hell for Sam has to affect his psyche, surely?
Here's the link to IMDb www.imdb.com/title/tt0075314/
Thanks for the preview SweetonDean. I'm SO looking forward to it. Very scared for Sammy
I actually know that movie quite well! I once produced a 10 minute short feature on it (as part of a campaign for Scorsese and Coppola movies - I did Mean Streets and the Godfather trilogy too).
In very simplistic terms, Taxi Driver is a commentary on the isolationistic nature of society and the impact that this can have on a mind like Travis Bickle. Yes indeed he was a loner, but not by choice, he unsuccessfully sort out friendships and affection. His concept of right and wrong was deeply affected by this isolation and his need to save and in the end, seek retribution for what he saw as a travesty against someone who's affections he sort. It ended up with him becoming psychotic in his approach. He was heading that way from day 1!
I can see the parallel with rescuing the innocent soul (though Jodi's character was not onboard with the rescue), and in some regards, the isolation that Sam feels in these trials and in the world of a hunter, which is socially isolating...but Sam ain't no Travis Bickle...even if the Trickster/Gabri el once referred to him as such (Mystery Spot).
You should watch Taxi Driver! It's an excellent, if deeply disturbing, movie, with not only one of De Niro's most iconic performances, but also one of his finest.
I'm sure though, the reference to Taxi Driver in the title is supposed to take us in this direction...and I was so going there, until I read the synopsis for "Bollo"!!!
And I did like 'The Mighty Boosh' reference you found!
I would so love to be a fly on the wall in the writing/concept meetings at SPN. There are always such great references, as well as great episode titles.
Honestly I hadn't thought it through very carefully so I assumed that the 'Taxi Driver' was a modern day ferryman. The theory about Travis Bickle (in a skirt) makes more sense though since it references Mystery Spot and specifically Sam.
EDIT: I don't know anything about the band Styx though there might be some of their stuff in the episode (because, why not?) ... how about from 'the serpent is rising? Or maybe 'the grand illusion?'
It was late at night on the open road,
Speeding like a man on the run,
A lifetime spent preparing for the journey;
He is closer now and the search is on,
Reading from a map in the mind,
Yes, there's the ragged hill,
And there's the boat on the river,
And when the rain came down,
He heard a wild dog howl.
There were voices in the night - "Don't do it!"
Voices out of sight - "Don't do it!
"Too many men have failed before;
Whatever you do:
Don't pay the ferryman;
Don't even fix a price.
Don't pay the ferryman;
Until he gets you to the other side!"
In the rolling mist, then he gets on board,
Now there'll be no turning back,
Beware that hooded old man at the rudder.
And then the lightning flashed, and the thunder roared,
And people calling out his name,
And dancing bones that jabbered and a-moaned on the water;
And then the ferryman said,
"There is trouble ahead,
So you must pay me now," - "Don't do it!"
"You must pay me now," - "Don't do it!"
And still that voice came from beyond,
"Whatever you do:
Don't pay the ferryman;
Don't even fix a price.
Don't pay the ferryman;
Until he gets you to the other side!"
Do you know the song Spanish Train? It's about the Devil and the Lord playing poker for the souls of the dead. He describes the devil as having a twinkle in his eye, which sounds just like Crowley
I am really not a fan of LIR so there is that...
I had to go look up LIR... never heard of them. But I've been told by a good friend that I shouldn't speak about certain performers that I've liked over the years. For example, I'd never tell Balthazar that I actually don't mind some of Celine Dion's music
Not sure how he got from the song you quoted and Spanish Train, to Lady in Red, which only makes me smile because, slow-dancing aliens! And, really, how often do you get to say that?
Chris de Burgh is actually a brilliant storyteller. He's live version of Spanish Train is worth the price of the concert ticket. So that's why it's funny to me that his most successful song, The Lady in Red, is my least favourite song, except for now it makes me smile because of slow-dancing aliens
I've never been a fan of shmoopy romance stuff (well, unless there are slow-dancing aliens involved-sorry it makes me smile, too), so I definitely like the, I guess, darker themes of some of his other stuff better. Probably why I'm a fan of Supernatural, too, and not something like Gossip Girl.
Also getting into hell is likely a lot easier than getting out.
Also, if it is Bobby down there, would the implication here be that ghosts go to Hell, or would it just be that Bobby might be a special case, if he is indeed the soul that needs rescuing?
Huh. I like it when they make me think...
When Dean contacted Tessa, in order to get to Death, he had to die first, so I'm glad to see they've figured out another way to contact a reaper!!!
I wonder if Sam will be the first living human to go to Hell??? Oh man....
This episode is killing us before it's even started!
There is 0% possibility that they are going to kill off Benny in any permanent way.
About a 10% possibility that Benny could end up in hell since as far as we know he would bounce off hell and end up in Purgatory.
Only about 42.3% (approximately) chance that the episode ends with Benny agreeing to let Dean cut off his head so that he can go to Purgatory and rescue Sam (who is stuck there for some reason) and Sam will be able to (try to) bring him out of Purgatory the same way Dean and Benny got out.
Where Bobby is involved in all this I can't begin to guess
Sidebar, everyone has been saying since Swan Song that Chuck was God; but since he was a writer, I think it would be more fun if he was Metatron. They could bring him back that way also. I am not a writer, so it won't happen; but I think it would be interesting
Quote:This always indicated to me that heaven had leeway on letting people in, so Hell may have some sway as well. If Crowley is more than he seems, he may have had deals in place in heaven for anyone. Bobby did kill his father and sell his soul, even though the deal was voided. Both actions could give Crowley and argument that Bobby earned Hell, especially if he got a message to his old friend Naomi.
First, Hell has changed since Dean's been there. If you recall from S6 - Crowley's changed things. His version of torture was people standing in line for eternity, never reaching their destination. But while that might be an interesting and even welcome (considering) application of a bad joke, we can't believe that's all there is. Crowley is a demon. We've seen him revel in torture. So, my personal prediction would be that this may be a place in Hell reserved for certain souls Crowley's hates, or more likely, some kind of POW-type area where souls that are meant for heaven are kept.
Second, I doubt Bobby will return to the show. If he indeed is the one Sam saves, he doesn't have a body to return to. Sam and Dean burnt it. Returning Bobby to his earthly Bobby would mess with my understanding of the show's canon regarding souls and death, etc. So if Sam releases him, it will likely be to heaven. It would be great to see him again, regardless, IMO.
Finally, my prediction: Naomi is the one who alerts Dean to Sam's predicament in Hell (or Purgatory...per haps they stuck there on a drive-through. And with the show's habit of having one brother follow in the other brother's footsteps - Dean went to hell, then Sam went to hell, etc. - it's a fair bet that Sam might end up there as well, to keep things equal). Naomi and Crowley are at odds, and the Winchesters already messed with her plans by turning Castiel against her. Her next best move would be to try and get them working for her. Helping save Sam would put Dean in Naomi's debt (or so she might assume), and in a perfect position to help her eliminate her competition, Crowley. How that may play out is anyone's guess.
We know that Benny's back - I'm excited for that. I love his character, whether he turns out to be good or evil. I have no idea what to expect here. :)
Looking forward to this episode!
Second, I doubt Bobby will return to the show. If he indeed is the one Sam saves, he doesn't have a body to return to. Sam and Dean burnt it. Returning Bobby to his earthly Bobby would mess with my understanding of the show's canon regarding souls and death, etc. So if Sam releases him, it will likely be to heaven. It would be great to see him again, regardless, IMO.
Yes, but the show has already blown that bit of canon out of the water by resurrection Adam. Sam and Dean burned his body at the end of Jump The Shark, but that didn't stop the angels from reviving him in PONR in his original and fully restored, unburned body. If they can do it for Adam, the can do it for Bobby.
Possibly spoilery speculation.........!
I am very suspicious of the whole Bobby is the soul thing. Why would the PTB reveal such a crucial and important plot point in a preview???? That's like giving away the whole ball game. No, my speculation is that something else is going on. I have no idea what, but something. I only hope that whatever it is, that a loophole can be found to get Bobby back from Hell/Heaven/Pur gatory... where ever he is so that he can pick up where he left off, and maybe make Garth his partner in crime. I sooooo want Bobby back.
However, if they do go down that track, I hope it's simply a matter of releasing Bobby's soul to heaven. As much as I love Bobby, it's a bit convenient to have him come back to life again considering he's died, returned as a ghost, was vanquished, and then ended up in hell.
But I'd really like to know that he's at peace
Hell
I have no clue on the whole Benny and rescuing Sam thing at all.I kind of like #1 because I like Benny. But I think a twist could be a lot more interesting story wise maybe.
I see our Dr Pepper war got kaz1 accidentally reprimanded. I haven't got through all the posts yet but I hope she saw it was just a misunderstandin g and came back. I'd hate to lose her posts.
It's true out little group has a tendency to agree. But I believe you said you like CHERRY Dr. Pepper. That's just all kinds of wrong.
I did contact Kaz via email. I've told her it was all a misunderstandin g and she is more than welcome to come back. Her account is still active and there when she wants to use it. I haven't heard back, but I'm hoping she read it.
I really hope that she ventures back and sees that it was all just a harmless mistake. Maybe the mod's could send her a message? They must have her email......
Leah, there was cherry chocolate Dr. Pepper? Even I might have been tempted to try that. Maybe.
(I think they're to corrupt us, E
Leah, you were diet? Hmm who was cherry? maybe nappi, But she usually stays on topic better than I do. Have you tried 10, it my current obsession.
I know kaz has says she has a lot going on so maybe she is just busy right now. That's what I'm hoping.
PaintedWolf, Jared completely blew me away as demonMeg but if it's demonSam with someone else playing him than if it is OUR Sam that would mean it was Sam possessing someone else. Instead of Jared with black eyes. How could Sam possessed someone else. That's a disturbing thought. So I don't know.
I'm simultaneously really worried and extremely excited about this episode.
But who knows.
Them owing a reaper just sounds like so much bad!!!!!!
Definitely Purgatory looking scenes. Maybe that's his way out. It is the middle ground. Back door from Purgatory to Hell and that's why Dean needs Benny. A little Catholic doctrine. From Purgatory I'm pretty sure you can go either direction, depending on atonement. Expecting a great scene as Jensen mentioned 'going there' as kind of an accident while filming.
Pretty sure they're gonna leave us with one of those tummy-twisting cliffhangers going into mini-hellatus though.
Interesting choices or theories from you and everyone here. I thought I would add a possibility. Maybe Naomi informs Dean that Sam is trapped in hell and that Bobby being there was just a ruse.
So Dean goes to Benny to have him bite him, so he can enter to Hell himself. Benny more than likely refuses to turn him and offers to go himself.
But it would have been interesting to see the brothers working together in Hell.
Also I wanted to add when I first saw the clip with the brothers talking to the Taxi Driver I thought of the scene in Scrooged. I was picturing Sam stuck with a crazy ass driver taking him to hell.
2)I hope Naomi comes to talk to Dean about something else other than Sam's situation.
God, I so agree with you on 1. Why can't Sam simply succeed at something for a change without Dean sending Edward Cullin to save him. Just let SAM be the capable hunter we know he is. Let him be capable of doing the job at hand for a change.
(Edited by Alice - I read over the other posts in this thread here. You're putting words in other people's mouths. That's a big rule of ours you're violating. Please tone it down).
Plus Sam hasn't really succeeded. He's becoming ill and was caught in a classic catch 22. If he told Dean he was ill Dean immediately starts telling Sam that he is to weak to help Dean with the angel tablet, too weak to complete the tasks by himself THE WAY THE TABLET SAYS THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETED. If Sam hides what is going on, Dean gets to tell him he is a liar. AND they are making it quite clear that Sam needs BENNY, BENNY who he doesn't trust to complete his trials. Maybe they can get Krissy to help with trial number 3 so Sam the incompetent can be proven to be not good enough.
I'm not sure how becoming ill is failing. It's not Sam's fault, it's part of the trials and Sam is taking this illness, or whatever it is, as a real hero. He is still going to take the trials, no matter the cost.
Dean is not ALWAYS right. He was wrong to trust Cas in S06. He didn't see it, it took Sam and Bobby to slowly try to convince him something was wrong. And he was wrong again to not trust that Cas could be reached as Godstiel. Sam was the one to believe in him and he was right.
What are your reasons for not liking Benny?
In Bloodlust, Sam was right to trust Lenore because they weren't killing humans. Dean was wrong to trust Gordon. We know this because there came a time when Dean was prepared to kill Gordon, even though he was human. So it was actually Dean who made the mistake of trusting Gordon in this episode, not Sam.
I'm guessing your point is that eventually Lenore reverted to her true nature after Eve turned up, but I don't think that makes Sam wrong. In fact, Lenore begged them to kill her because she couldn't overcome Eve's influence. She didn't want to live if she had to kill, so this shows me that Sam's instinct about her being a good person was right all along. It was ultimately just tragic
In regard to the rugaru, I also believe Sam was right in wanting to try to help the guy first rather than just kill him outright. The fact is we will never know if he could've been saved because his hand was forced by the other hunter. He only became the monster when his wife (family) was threatened. Again it was a tragic circumstance.
The rugaru is actually an interesting parallel to what happened to Benny this season. Benny also killed to save family when his hand was forced by another hunter. It's almost the same situation, except that it was the rugaru's first kill and there was no going back for him. Whereas Benny may not need to kill again.
I don't think Sam was wrong in his handling of the rugaru and I don't think Dean is wrong in his handling of Benny. It's simply not black and white, which is exactly what we saw in last week's episode with the rookie teenage hunters.
Anyhow, this is just my perspective...
And one last thing, I don't think Dean or anyone else ever blamed Sam for Lenore. Actually, she was crucial in helping them find Eve, so if Sam hadn't shown her mercy in the first instance, well who knows....
Plus, I remember that neither Sam nor Dean were inclined to kill Lenore even when she said she killed a teen girl and wanted to die. They understand that she did it because of Eve and were willing to hide her until they killed Eve and stop her evil influence. I believe they were quite sure she wouldn't kill again Eve gone.
It was S06 ruthless Cas who took the decision from them, because he was in a hurry. That was cold!
Sam killed the Hellhound and saved his brother in the first trial. Dean was weaponless and about to become puppychow, until Sam stepped in. Now, because a situation goes against him, most likely through no fault of his own, he'd be seen as less capable? I don't get it.
These two are always helping each other, that's been the dynamic since we first met them. I don't see why one brother needing the other brother's help is a weakness. I see it as team work, I see it as family.
And Dean helping is what these two do for each other. I want them to try to share the burdens with each other. I would be upset if they did anything else.
Just speculating here but I think Naomi goes to Dean to ask Benny to help get Sam back from hell because she was somehow involved in Benny knowing a way out of purgatory; perhaps Benny isn't just a vampire? I realize Naomi wanted Cas to kill Dean but that was to protect the angel tablet, which was her #1 priority, a matter of survival for the angels. Naomi also wants to see the gates of hell closed, hence the reason for getting Sam back. And, since it sounds as though Sam can't have any human or heavenly help in finishing the trials, that's why they enlist Benny in getting him back? Naomi instructing Castiel earlier this season to help the Winchesters when they called made that clear.
As far as why Sam gets trapped in hell, the obvious reason would be Crowley but I'm leaning towards the less obvious; the Taxi Driver that opened the portal to hell either gets killed by a demon or double crosses the Winchesters.
This whole upcoming Metatron thing is interesting; without wanting to offend the many fans that believe Chuck is God... when they first made mention of Metatron in S7, my first thought was, oh, a scribe of God... just like Chuck. Since I'm speculating away here, I think the Winchesters will need Metatron to finish the final trial - they'll need the other half of the tablet to find out what the third trial is and I don't think Crowley is too eager for them to have it. So... why not go to the angel that wrote all these tablets in the first place? To that end, is Metatron an angel or archangel?
Regarding souls in hell, John Winchester crawled out of hell at the end of Season 2 to save his boys and I always assumed he went to heaven. What about Sam and Dean's mother? Didn't she make a deal with YED to save John and wouldn't that have marked her soul for hell, or is that only when you make a deal with a crossroads demon? Or is this just an inconsistency that they neglected to address, or did I forget something in a future episode that cleared this up? Or, do I have way too much free time on my hands today?
I'm thinking Naomi is offering to help Sam if Dean can get something from Benny. My second guess is that she is telling Dean there is a door from Purgatory into Hell that Dean can take to get Sam and Dean needs Benny to get back into Purgatory. They won't send Benny to do Dean's job.
Just want to go on record with my own awful theories. I agree that probably the Bobby return is a ruse, what with all the teases. Maybe Jim makes an appearance, tho, which would be nice. I think Sam would be doing the trials regardless of knowing Bobby is in Hell, so I think he's really there. But what if Sam goes into Hell looking for Bobby, thinking he's the innocent and there's really another and he has to make a choice to leave Bobby there or risk not completing the trial.
Imagine how angry Dean would be if Sam failed to bring Bobby out, or failed to complete the trial, right? It would be just too sad. I hope it doesn't go that way, but I'm preparing for the worst.
As for Naomi and Benny, I think the only reason she'd go to Dean would be to deal, either for the angel tablet, to kill Crowley, etc. but it may reveal her true nature and that of Crowley and their relationship.
I don't see Benny being able to help Sam unless there's a door from Purgatory into Hell (it's 'hell-adjacent' remember?). And he did know where that portal was, so maybe he's in league with Naomi, I don't know.
Happy watching!
Naomi is pisseder."
They made me chortle.
Not to mention, it's the same complaint yet again twisted another way. That's another thing we are watching carefully.
I know I can't change your mind, and I think something may still be revealed about what happened before Amelia, but if not, I'll chalk it up to the writers back-tracking because it wasn't a story the fans bought, so they dropped it. Maybe they are about to do a reveal and felt the need to recap what happened at the beginning of the season first. Wishful think'in, I know.
I personally think it is to remind us because it is somehow going to come into play in these last few episodes. And I going to keep thinking that until shown otherwise.
It's getting to the point where your posts will only be allowed on Let's Discuss or Let's Speculate threads. Learn to write something constructive on previews and reviews, or I unpublish your comments.
Quote:Where do you get this from? I'm a huge Sam fan and I don't agree with anything you've said about him or his story arc this season. To me he is still the same Sam, who always tries to do the right thing. He is a hero, who is sacrificing his own health for the greater good by doing these trials. He loves his brother and wants to take him to the light, so they can both have a life after hunting. That is how I see Sam. That's MY PERCEPTION.
Bobby is a cranky old man (and we love him for it). Of course he chastised Sam for not looking for Dean, the same way he was chastising Dean for making friends with a vamp. He didn't have the full story (and there is still a chance that we don't have the full story). Bobby loved both boys (remember his final memory in Death's Door) and would NEVER use the description you've used to describe Sam. Neither would Dean.
But I'm quite certain you won't see it my way, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. I love this show and can't tell you how much joy I get out of it every single week
Got on here after the episode last night and that was like, the second comment I read. My blood pressure spiked for a brief second, then I rolled my eyes, shut my computer off, and went to bed.
Thanks for saying what I didn't have the energy to, KG_SPN.
I have some issues about the ease of getting in and out of Hell and Purgatory considering Naomi said many Angels died to rescue Cas. And Cas made it sound so hard to rescue Dean. But I'm going to concentrate on the fact that Bobby was back even if it was just 1 episode! BOBBY! YAY!
mainly
i did not like it
that is all
Is anyone else getting the feeling that there's something up with this season? As in, not right? As in, not true reality?
I've been getting this nagging feeling since Hunter Heroicus that there's something up with this season and its episodes. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but i wanted to share my theories here anyways. (we've got a 3 week hiatus ahead of us, theres not much else to do.)
Firstly, a few come from this episode:
1) In season 7, Crowley talked to Castiel about how he had remodeled hell, and when he and Cas arrived, it was just one big long line. In this episode, it looked completely different.
2) Crowley said he was a 17th century scottish man who sold his soul for and extra *ahem* 3 inches. Although, I know not to trust what Crowley says, they did bring his son back, who had been alive at that time. There's always the possibility that he was a demon/angel/wha tever during the 17th century, but I doubt it.
And then, suddenly Naomi, who is (or possibly isnt) an angel, has a history with him in Mesopotamia.I'm not the best at social studies, but i'm pretty sure Mesopotamia was WAY before the 17th century. [of course, there's always the possibility that they had a steamy time together and she revealed the fact that she was an angel and took him back in time, but Naomi being Naomi, that seems unlikely.]
3) This one may seem weird to some of you, (I really like cinematography and tend to pay attention to that alot) but one thing that has me confused is the colors. If you go and watch the 1st, 4th, or even the 6th season, and then the 8th, the difference is surprising. One of may favorite things about this show was the gritty, muted and neutral colors the show uses. They usually only reserved bright, bright colors for alternate realities. (Dean being poisoned by the djinn, anyone? The End, anyone? Am I pinging your intrest yet?) While I was in the middle of the 5th season I got bored and decided to skip ahead to 8x07. One of the very first things i noticed was how bright it was. And when Sam had the flashbacks, the colors became even more saturated, to the point where everything looked orange-y. Even now, the Winchester's skin looks almost orange. (ex, 8x08-8x10) But maybe that's just me. Maybe it's the whole "things are looking up and everything seems brighter" type thinking, but who knows.
4) Ever head of: "too good to be true"?
Closing the gates of Hell? Forever?? Yeah, I think that can fall under the category of "too good to be true".
Another example? 8x18. Krissy, Aiden, and Josephine were taken in by a 'loving' and 'caring' hunter and he conveniently 'found' all the vamps who supposedly killed their families.
And then, it turns out that it wasn't like that at all. Rip off all the good and shiny exterior, and underneath it's black and rotten and riddled with holes.
5) The Leviathan tablet didn't have instructions on how to close the gates of Purgatory. Leviathans come from and were created in purgatory. God put them there for a reason. If it was anything like the demon tablet, it should have told you how to shut the gates forever. [demons were also created and come from Hell. angels were created and come from Heaven. Sense a pattern here? And the angel and demon tablet tell you how to shut the gates, but the leviathan tablet doesn't? ] (Also notice how the demon and the angel tablet wasn't found until the 8th season) Yes, I know, you need purgatory to collect all the souls of the dead monsters. But do you really? In that line of thinking, you would also need Hell to collect all the dirty and twisted humans that don't deserve Heaven. You need Heaven to collect all the pure and devout human souls. But Dean and Cas and Kevin and Sam are trying to close the gates to hell anyhow.
6) This point is sort of a weak one, but isn't the wrath of an archangel supposed to smite anything that threatens a prophet? Or are there just not enough archangels left?
7) Crowley just getting inside Kevin's head (and not doing it before)? Crowley shouting that this was his universe? Have I placed that special little idea seed in your brain yet?
A promo where Dean is placed in an alternate reality that looks and tricks you into thinking it is reality? Can you say foreshadowing, anyone? (Another example, although a weak one, is in LARP and the Real Girl, where Moondor becomes the prominent reality. And Felicia Day was in that one, too. Interesting. /strokes nonexistent beard/)
In the promo, Dean asks, "What is this?" most likely because he awoke in a random place, wearing random clothes. He thought where he was, was real. Charlie had to tell him that he was in a video game to convince him that the reality he was currently experiencing wasn't the real one.
Another piece of foreshadowing that just smacked me in the face: Sam was dating Amelia because she was under the assumption that her husband was dead. And then he suddenly shows up, out of nowhere, alive. In the beginning of the season, Dean just shows up, out of nowhere, alive, when Sam was under the presumption that he was dead. (connection- Dean thinks he's in reality until Charlie tells him he's in a video game. -insert big plot twist that relates back to this episode here-[assumptio n-dean thinks he's in reality when he really isn't. /screams Inception!/])
9) This one really quite bothers me and was the one that started this whole line of thinking.
Supernatural is a show where the main characters are in a new town every week, where they kill something and then leave. It can't bring back or recast actors in completely different roles, because that seems suspicious. Except that's exactly what they've done. Three times. And all, in Season 8.
Example A: Ty Olsson. He played a bartender who spoke briefly to the Winchesters in the episode Bloodlust. (2x03)
Same face, same accent.
He ALSO plays Benny, the vampirate. (8x01-8x19 RIP)
I really can't come up with an explanation besides the fact that he was on once before and he liked it??
Example B: John DeSantis. He played Freeman Daggett, a ghost in the episode Ghostfacers. (3x13)
He ALSO plays the Golem, in Everybody Hates Hitler. (8x13)
Again, I don't have an explanation.
Example C: Tyler Johnston. He played Matt Pike in Bugs. (1x08) He ALSO played Samandriel. (8x02-8x12 RIP)
The only explantation for this is that he could be like Jimmy, where it was in his blood to be a vessel. But then again, Matt wasn't devout, so it could hinder his saying yes to become a vessel. This theory is a long shot, though.
(And what is it with Dean not remembering faces? Daggett tried to kill his brother, for god's sakes. He fcking remembered Victor!)
I think the recasts plays on the whole "your brain uses other people you've seen before as characters in your dreams". Again, I could be wrong, but this really bothers me. I've never seen any actors being recast in different roles in any other seasons. Why start now?
10) Set recycling? There are a few screencaps where the brick wall outside one of their motel rooms is the same one as the motel Gabriel shoved them into in Changing Channels. Also, a divider seen in one of Sam's flashbacks is in one the shared brother's rooms. Wallpaper from Sam's Amelia flashbacks is also seen in present time. Coincidence?
In the words of Dean Winchester: "When do things ever happen coincidentally? "
Okay so that was way longer than I intended, but something in me won't stop nagging me about it. It's like that feeling you get when you're forgetting something, but can't remember what you're forgetting. I do get that this is one of the more radical theories, one of the ones that are out there with the theorists saying Gabriel is coming back, but it bothers me.
Anyways, thoughts?
Just wanna put my two cents in about the recycling actors and the familiar shots.
It could just be, as far as the actors are concerned that they've been on for so long that they're bringing a couple of them back. Notice, though how all the actors who've returned were people who had bit parts in one episode in early seasons. Maybe they're just running out of new actors?
Also, I know for some establishing shots, like locations, or motels etc, they do often use stock footage that they've filmed before. There was one very famous stock shot that they used several times in the earlier seasons of the Impala driving past a field and a clouded sky, so maybe they're doing a bit of that here, too.
Quote:I think we were told there were only 4 archangels, Michael, Lucifer, Raphael and Gabriel. If so, Raphael is dead, Michael and Lucifer are trapped and Gabriel is probably dead, but he could be tricking everybody.
And since Benny was one of the recasts, I have a headcanon that dean was/is being fed on by a djinn, (possibly the one he killed all those years ago or the ones in season 6) because if it is a djinn they're definitely fufilling a different type of wish in an ... unconventional way.
I just have the feeling that anyone who died (or at least some of them) in this season are going to come back, because this is supernatural, after all.
I can't wait till April 24th!
twothree reasons:1) They lose the MOL lair - and I really don't see the writers doing that, it is too much fun.
2) They loose the existence of Benny - and while people are way more expendable than sets on SPN I really don't think Benny is gone for good
3) (and I think this is BY FAR the most important one) they lose the golem and Aaron! This must not be!
On the other hand the twistiness of who is controlling the matrix and why could be really good, but it is more sci-fi than horror I think.
*Ty Olsson has starred in Supernatural before. He played vampire Eli, a member of Lenore’s nest in episode 2.03 “Bloodlustâ€.
*Amelia’s father, Stan, is played by Brian Markinson, also appeared in a previous episode of Supernatural, 1.04 “Phantom Traveller†as Jerry Panowski.
*One of the birthday party ladies in HH was the old lady in Hansel and Gretel in “Bedtime Stories.
*Kathleen Munroe (Elizabeth) played Annette Doolittle in the episode 3.02 “The Kids Are Alrightâ€.
*Viggo the torturer in Torn and Frayed was played by the same actor that played Evan Hudson in Crossroad Blues.
*The Sheriff (Larp & Real Girl) also played “Mike,†John’s partner in the garage. The boys questioned him in “Home†in season 1.
*John Desantis played Freeman Daggett from “Ghostfacers⠀ episode.
*Tyler Johnston played Matt Pike in Bugs and Season 8’s Samandriel.
But look at this, www.imdb.com/title/tt0460681/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm#cast it is the list of all the actors that have been in the show and their character names on the right, scroll down, it takes a while to really start but every time there is a character name and then a slash that person is recycled (or has played two (or more) characters) in some episode at some point.
Funnily enough Jared and Misha have multiple people they have been, though since Misha has 'himself' as one of his characters then JP and JA should as well ....
There have been one heck of a lot of repeat actors this year.
I think they're using actors from the 1-3rd seasons because we are least likely to recognise them. I for one feel like I should rewatch all the seasons to see if I can pay attention more.
and they're all and only in Season 8 ....
Curious.Quote:qyv
Some highlights:
I thought the part where Sam walked through the prison area of Hell was particularly creepy - like a legit haunted house. I was a little creeped out by the sounds, especially.
The scenes between Benny and Dean were heartwrenching - I found myself tearing up. I knew from the moment he got into Purgatory that he wasn't getting out. It's no secret that I love Benny's character, and I hope it's not the last we see of him.
It was great to see Bobby again, even looking worse-for-wear. I heard his disbelief over both Sam's not looking for Dean and Dean's befriending a vampire, and I thought about how times have changed, and how Bobby had to move on, if for no other reason than he wouldn't be able to understand the journey the brothers have been on and how that journey has affected them. Bobby is a part of the past, and I can accept that now.
I loved the interactions between Sam and Bobby, especially when Sam was trying to convince Bobby he was real and not a demon. That moment when there were "two Sam's" was also particularly tense.
The best scene was when Sam got out of Purgatory - the frantic worry followed by relief in Dean's entire demeanor was so evident. And we got another brother hug! Also, the look on Dean's face when Sam gently informed him that Benny didn't make it out was so gut-wrenching. Le sigh. Lots of 'feels' as some put it.
I worry about Kevin. I feel bad for him. I wonder what's going to happen to him and how much he can take. He's only a kid, after all, prophet or not. I wish Dean or Sam could muster up a little more sympathy. I did appreciate Dean making sure the kid ate though. Taking care of him in his own gruff way.
Crowley has become such a badass. He used to be a fun demon. Now he's just evil. I wonder if he'll be dead before the end of the season.
I wonder if Naomi aligning herself with the Winchester will put Cas at odds with them.
I wonder what is happening to Sam. Goodness gracious, that in and of itself is suspense enough! Is he dying? Is he transforming? I must know!!
SO GLAD this wasn't a TBC episode as many expected!
Saw the promo for next week and I'm stoked - looks like lots of action-packed fun - wasn't at all what I was expecting, either!
That's all for now. :)
Favourite moment: that hug
I've really loved season 8 and I'm on the edge of my seat for the last 4 episodes