THEN
He's baaaaaack. Castiel returneth from Purgatory and he knows not how.
Dean shared some feelings.
Sam gave advise on "survivor's guilt"
Kevin lost his pinkie.
The Word of God got broken in half - again.
And...those freakin' angels are up to no good - again!
NOW
KABLAMO AND KAPOWEE AND KABOOM. It looks like "Supernatural" Acme style!
You can never tell if what appears to be a comedic episode of "Supernatural" is simply going to be a funny, or something deeper. Sometimes the ones that look like they're just going for the giggles, turn out to have a lot more to them, like say "Changing Channels". But straight up from the promo and the preview, "Hunteri Heroici" looks like it's playing for laughs. Which might be fun, because 8.09 looks like exactly the opposite (though for me, that's fun). But who knows. It could tie into the mythology or we could have something go awry and…well, geesh, this is "Supernatural" after all and these boys are angsty and walking on eggshells at the moment so...
Anyhoo...here's the official synopsis:
CARTOONS AREN'T ALWAYS FUNNY - Castiel tells Sam and Dean that he's decided to become a hunter like them. Sam and Dean aren't sold on the idea but agree to investigate a case Cass found where a man's heart literally burst through his chest. The guys discover there has been more than one odd murder in the small town, and all of them resemble cartoon deaths.
Paul Edwards directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb.
Ok...Paul Edwards. According to the link through on the IMDB synopsis for this episode, they say it's Paul J. Edwards a visual effects producer/director. But this is wrong! I was struggling to figure out which Paul Edwards it was, as there's a stack of them, so I tweeted "Supernatural" E.P. Jim Michaels and he got back to me and told me it was the Paul Edwards who's directed a bunch of Once Upon A Time episodes. So I looked him up and he's Paul A. Edwards on IMDB. He directed OUAT as well as Alcatraz, a bunch of Lost episodes, Fringe, Battlestar Gallatica, Heroes and a whole lot more. A very seasoned director and a very seasoned genre director. He's a "Supernatural" rookie so that's 2 rookie directors in a row. Great to be adding to the directorial roster.
You may also notice the writer of this episode, Andrew Dabb, is missing something. Daniel Loflin! These guys are a writing team. So it's interesting that Dabb has written this one on his own. It'll be very fascinating to see what it's like with just one of them manning the, I was going to say typewriter then I realised it's not 1982!
So Cass wants to be a hunter. I guess he got a fair bit of experience in Purgatory and hanging out with the Winchesters for ages and all that and lord knows he's powerful enough, remember how he wiped out all the Jefferson Starships in that diner? (Jefferson Starships - still makes me laugh every time). But, Cass a hunter? Why do I think this isn't going to go to plan?
So let's look at the promo:
Ermm. Looney Tunes. Can anyone say Warner Bros? (Who of course are one of the producers of and the distributor of "Supernatural"). We've had "Rascally rabbit" and now a full-on Looney Tunesesque episode. Or maybe it's more in the vein of Who Framed Roger Rabbit with giant anvils and the like?
I must say, I laughed A LOT at the frying pan in Dean's face. Jensen pulls the best faces (which is amazing with all the pretty going on there) and I giggled at the "Bang" coming out of the gun, but yeah, I don't know what else to say here. It does look nice and gory and that always works for me.
The preview extends the "You were being bad everything" scene, which is such a beautifully delivered line and is followed up by one of my favourite Dean lines for ages… "She's the best wife ever." I can't even tell you how much I laughed and how many times I replayed that! Also, is Cass putting on a NY accent or something? Which is pretty funny - I guess he does dig TV, doing the whole bad cop routine, hitting the table. Now he really looks like Columbo! I also love how Dean says to Cass, "Listen to Sam" because yeah, Sam is amazing with the subtle and empathetic interrogation. He always gets the goods. Listen and learn Castiel!
I admit, I like this scene; it's pretty neat and made me grin. Everyone's surprised look when the wife says she knows about the mistress. Gold. But, I'm not usually a big fan of the light and comedic episodes - well, that's absolutely untrue - I do like them, but I tend to like the heavier, dramatic ones more. You won't find any of the outright comedies in my top 5, or probably my top 10, not even "The French Mistake", which is a pure joy, well maybe "The French Mistake". Nah probably not. Sorry, just worked that through in front of you all!
One thing that the promos don't show which the promo pics do, is that this episode has an epically good guest star. Mike Farrell of B.J. Hunnicutt from M.A.S.H. fame! You can check out the pictures here.
OMG! So, while I've been writing this, I've been watching "A Little Slice of Kevin". In Australia they play the episodes one week behind the States (so don't ask me how I see it before then and I won't have to tell you any lies…ixnay on the ownloadday)…anyway…they JUST played a promo for "Hunteri Heroici" and it had different bits in it! Like cartoon-land bits. Like a couple of the guys in cartoon-land bits. Oooooo! And that beating heart from the synopsis looks pretty funny and I'm not saying anything else...except, that's all folks!
So are you looking forward to this one? Do you dig the funny episodes? Or like me, are you all about the serious stuff? (P.S. The Aussie promo made me kinda excited)!
Let me know your thoughts. And don't forget, for spoilers on upcoming episodes visit our spoiler page.
See you soon in reviewland (I missed you guys)!
-sweetondean
Comments
But I also love the really dramatic ones.... Give me brother angst and tears - and fights, so long as they make up quickly!
I'm looking forward to this episode mainly because of Mike Farrell, though. I've adored him since M*A*S*H*.
Hopefully this episode is fun, but also has some meat to it... and gives us more insight. I don't want all these various plot points dropped for another week. Especially since we all expect next week to be a real stressful one.
... and Tshirts... gotta have Tshirts. (Sorry
On the other hand, it's exciting for them!
This show has SUCH a great eye for the details, visually, etc.... And the different directors and writers hands are so evident. They can be fantastic (*cough* BEE and EDLUND *cough*), or not so..... (leaving blank and running)
Running back to Tshirt thoughts now.
Now, what was that about t-shirts?
I do like Mike Farrell, though.
I'm still unhappy that we've lost Phil Scriggia to Revolution. He was one of our top directors, and I always liked his work. EK needs to quit robbing our show.
Anyway, I hope it is something more than just silly, as I much prefer drama.
I was just thinking last night, it would be great to have tears again. And some extensive use of artificial blood.
But yes! I could go with some real tears! Looking forward to the episode (surely it's coming) when these 2 really get the issues out in the open. That one will be a heartbreaker!!
In the meantime, I'll be watching with a good stiff drink.
And artificial blood is only truly good on skin :)
Edited: Love HTML -.-
Quote:Too true.
Oh, our poor,poor boys. We are a sick lot, aren't we? Never happy unless our boys are hurt or in tears.
But hey....there are people who love watching golf. So, no feeling guilty here.
On the other hand...
Oh erm... well..
*raises hand* LARPer
*cough*
EVERYTHING is better with artificial blood.
I tell you... just about everything.
At least I have a good excuse to be weird
That's cool. I've never met anyone who actually does that.... What do you LARP?
(sorry, off topic, sweetondean)
Never really liked the rest.
And yes, I'm totally scared of that LARP episode
We really do have problems don't we!
And I agree, there's no reason this conversation couldn't happen with Sam just getting out of bed in t-shirt and sweat pants and bare feet, while Dean just comes out of the shower in t-shirt and towel all damp and rumpled.... Sorrrrry (but you started it!
But first...the looney tunes episode! Enjoy it tonight everyone!
And I agree, there's no reason this conversation couldn't happen with Sam just getting out of bed in t-shirt and sweat pants and bare feet, while Dean just comes out of the shower in t-shirt and towel all damp and rumpled.... Sorrrrry (but you started it!
Did I? Soooorrrrryyy. (Not Sorry
I'll see your sweatpants/bare feet, and raise you two towels/ no tshirts.
(Na, that'd probably get the Wincest group started. Don't go there!)
And yes, I agree, there's no reason a conversation like that can't be had in minimal layers of clothing!
Welcome to the party!
Now we've got one great boozy party going on somewhere (I forget which article we set that one up on), and another with Winchester tears and "minimal layers of clothing"!
Hey, if we combined the two, I bet we could all get arrested!
Although, towels is still a little more than the conversation about Sam and Dean in naught but fig leaves a couple months ago.
Oh and I'll bring the Kleenex!
I've just converted my piggy bank to a "bail money savings account". Let's party!
I get the feeling, they are trying to bring Sam and Cas closer together. And with both of them alone in Loony world, there might be a good chance.
On the other hand... Loflin... -.-
You know, out of, geeze how many eps are we up to now? 157, 158? I can count on one hand the episodes that make me go...erm..... Even then, when I watch them again, they often have something in them I missed on first viewing.
How I see it, is for me, the show deserves the benefit of the doubt. It's done good, it's worked hard, it's delivered far more often than not and for that reason, I will always give it the benefit of the doubt. Can't help it!
I´m sleep deprived
Yes... there ARE some things that are generally found in their episodes that sometimes make them less than endearing to me. Cheap humor, for example.
But we´ll wait and see....
I will only get to watch the episode tomorrow (my time tomorrow). By the time it runs, I´m almost getting up to go to work again.
So I will have the forwarning of reviews :)
But anyways! It´s a new Supernatural episode!
- with the exception of Bitten - Just can't bring myself to watch it again. Once was more than enough. (I don't think there was even a good Tshirt scene in that one, was there? I'd watch even Bitten for a good Tshirt scene..... Sorry, going shallow again.
The scenes between Dean and Cas were nice, but since I want scenes between Dean and Sam, they were hurtful. Dean can forgive Cas, but not even try to find out what Sam went through.
I'm just not feeling this season. I hope that after midseason break I will finally feel it.
I dont give the show the benefit of the doubt not where Sam is concerned at least I have done all that in the past didnt get me anywhere.
And I thought there was a pretty darn good hint about the figure, but I'll leave that discussion to the reviews, since this article is "spoiler-lite"
And btw - GREAT EPISODE!!!!! For those of you waiting to hear whether to watch - WATCH!
Aside from the cartoony stuff, which they handled really well, it's got a LOT that fits into the overall story!
I enjoyed all the Looney Tune tributes, the sillyness, the slapstick and the sound effects.
I loved seeing more of Sam's story. I guess now we know why Sam left Amelia that night.
I loved watching Castiel with his Columbo impersonation, his failure to grasp mortal references and his conversation with Dean.
I enjoyed seeing Mike Farrell again...man he has aged since I last saw him...what 29 years ago?? YIKES!
I'm sure there is lots more I will think of later, but right now I have to get to bed...4:30am comes very early.
I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I have found ALL of Sam's FBs to be . . . . ill-timed or misplaced. They just seem to come out of nowhere and don't really fit w/the story. None of the FBs have made sense to me. An ice cube falls to the floor, Sam has an Amelia FB. A car backfires, Sam has an Amelia FB. Sam's brushing his teeth, which triggers an Amelia FB. Huh? These FBs just don't make much sense to me. They don't seem to flow w/the rest of the story or have much meaning.
Were we supposed to learn something from Sam's FBs tonight? If so, what was it? That bitchy Amelia has an equally bitchy dad? That Sam and Amelia are both messed up people? That Sam was running away from his life and living in a fantasy world w/the bitchy Amelia? Didn't we learn all this a few episodes back.
I thought Sam's FBs broke up the momentum of the episode and really served no purpose. Honestly, unless something supernatural was going on w/Sam during his time w/Amelia, I'm not really interested in that part of his life. I don't care about her dad. I don't care about her miraculously alive husband. I don't care about her. I don't care about Sam's life w/her or his feelings for her.
My sister and I moaned and rolled our eyes each time Sam gazed off into the distance b/c we knew another pointless FB was coming! And for the record, we both LOVE Sam.
And IF (and that's a big IF) Carver is planning some huge twist w/Sam's story (i.e., Angel manipulation or just a dream Sam had while in the psych ward or something), then he needs to get to it already b/c I'm . . . as Willow from BTVS would say, "Bored now."
I'm utterly bored w/Sam's boring life w/Amelia. I actually find his time w/her to be horribly boring and immaterial to the show. If a twist is coming, they need to get to it.
JMO.
The biggest example would be Sam not looking for Dean. That makes no sense at all and hasn't been properly explained. Putting that aside, the coloring is always off in Sam's FBs. Now, is that supposed to signify that the FBs themselves aren't real, or is it just Carver's way of distinguishing Sam's cloudy, colorful FBs from Dean's more gritty, blackish ones? I don't know.
I'm not sure if you watched HH, but tonight a man remarked to Sam that the elderly patient was living a life in his own mind, which, of course, triggered an Amelia FB. Okay. . . . so am I to assume Sam made up Amelia and a life w/her or am I to assume Sam is remembering his time w/Amelia more fondly than it was in reality? I don't know. Oh, and Sam remarked that Amelia's bitchy dad opened their beers just like Dean did . . . is that supposed to mean something? Was it Sam just making a comment or am I supposed to be questioning whether any of this stuff w/Amelia happened to Sam?
I don't know, and frankly, I don't care all that much. I'm over this Sam mystery. I was over it from the very start. Haha! This story - whatever it is - is simply not being told in a very intriguing way, IMO. It's just not capturing my interest like SS did in the first part of S6. We knew from EOMS that something was very wrong w/Sam. Here, while Sam's decision to not search for Dean makes no sense, there are no other obvious hints that something is up w/Sam. I have no idea if this characterizatio n of Sam is off b/c of Carver's interpretation of the character or b/c of a planned storyarc. It's just not clear to me.
I don't know what I'm supposed to think about Sam's story, but I wish we'd just FF to the denouement and move on w/the rest of the season.
I am coming around to Amelia, just as it looks like she is all a dream. I did like the idea of 2 broken people who are finding some happiness in a sad world. I wish Amelia was more fleshed out an maybe even real, but the whole Sam story has been handled in such a mishmash, that I'm not connecting at all.
I refuse to accept it being in Sam's character to abandon Dean when Dean's in trouble. That's no Sam I know.
Sam is much stronger than this. We've seen it. I can buy Sam reaching a breaking point, but I need a story to do so. Dean disappearing is just not enough for this fan. I'm wholly unsatisfied.
Just what is this storyline about? Why do we see so much of it? If there's no supernatural angle to it or some big twist, then it's really just immaterial IMO. I felt the same way about Lisa/Ben last year. I have no problem with romance but it just doesn't fit, IMO, on this show.
I don´t really see it as a romance. It´s essentially as told.
Two broken people holding on to each other, trying to get ground under their feet again, because they have lost a all footing.
Now, how much of it is REAL, is a wholly different story.
How is Amelia explaining Sam's state of mind? I'm lost. Amelia was rude and bitchy when we met her, and then she said she lost her husband and didn't want pity from the townsfolk. I'm not sure how this relates to Sam. And in this most recent FB, she didn't do much of anything.
And are they broken? I don't know. Sam doesn't come off as "broken" or "messed up" in these FBs. Sam doesn't even come off as "lost" or "without purpose" to me.
I don't know. I don't get the whole Amelia angle.
I think its just what it appears. I hope I'm wrong and Show surprises me with something. But mostly I just hope that Amelia goes away with her live husband and we never, ever see or hear from her again. She can live next door to Lisa & Ben.
Hopefully Sam did something interesting before he hit that dog that explains him better, but I'm not really holding out much hope for that. I'll be happy if he gets his head back in the game and quits drifting off into these reveries that stall the forward momentum.
In spite of the fact that I don't like the storyline and it was annoying to stop the main narrative for the flashbacks -- -- I liked the scenes with Sam and Amelia's father. On a different show I would have downright loved them.
Quote:
LOL! I couldn't agree more w/you! Don and Amelia can live right next door to Lisa/Ben. Perfect!
Quote:Again, LOL! You're on a roll! I, of course, agree w/your every word. I would like to think Sam did something more interesting or that something more interesting happened to him, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Oh well.
I had an even more depressing thought -- that the shadowy figure is merely Amelia's husband arriving as Sam is leaving. No mystery - nothing to do with the supernatural at all.
I really, really hope that I am wrong.
I find the Castiel storyline and the mystery of what is going on in heaven to be very intriguing - I want to know what is going on, dang it!
I appreciated the "more" we got on Sam tonight. I liked the flashbacks - it was very interesting to watch Sam interact with Amelia's father. And how heartbreaking it was when she received that phone call, and he thought it was over! They were together in the premiere though, so I assume Amelia chose Sam over Don? I guess we'll have to see. Still lots of questions left to be answered.
I still empathize with Sam's position, his decisions, his motivations, etc., and find them to be in-character. This is Sam stripped away. No false bravado a-la demon blood. No special abilities. No connections to Lucifer. Soul very much intact. And "that look" of a man whose lived through many battles, watching everyone he ever cared about get killed until he had no one left, and he finally fled. This Sam is vulnerable. This is the Sam I know, love, and feel like I understand. He isn't the same man Dean is; he didn't make the same decision Dean would have in the same circumstance - but when he tried to become like his brother in the past, he nearly destroyed himself. This is Sam true to himself. And I find myself falling in love with his character again, after feeling disconnected from him for so many seasons.
Each one of these men - Dean, Sam, and Cas - are flawed and vulnerable in their own ways. Pricked with guilt, gutted by loss, scarred by past mistakes, afflicted with various flaws - and all these little bits and nuances have been coming out this season. I love it.
Gives me much hope.... But DAMN, now we're going to have angst and hellatus.
Well, was....
I mean, alright, I liked Sam, I rooted for him.
I wanted him to be ok.
But right now?
Oh Goooooooooooooooooood!
Sammmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't feel this story is doing justice to Sam. In fact, I feel this story hurts Sam, esp. in the way it's being told.
Even if I take the story at face value and believe Sam just ran, I still have problems with the overall storytelling. When S7 ended, I saw a Sam that was desperate to find his brother. I saw a Sam demanding that Crowley tell him what happened to Dean. It is unclear how Sam went from demanding that Crowley tell him what happened to Dean to a Sam that thought Dean died. I mean. . . . what happened? In a span of seconds, Sam suddenly decided Dean was dead. It doesn't flow, and I cannot ignore or disregard what I saw at the end of S7.
What the show seems to have grasped for other characters but has yet to fully grasp for Sam is that the audience needs to SEE the devastation or the emotion for the story to work. Almost everyone knows and understands why Dean made the CRD for Sam. Why? Because they showed us his immediate reaction. They showed us how utterly devastated Dean was by Sam's untimely death and his inability to "save" him. We saw how Dean didn't care about the world anymore or Bobby or anything b/c Sam was dead. We saw it. We could feel his emotion.
So far, we haven't been given a glimpse of Sam's devastation. If I'm to believe that he thought Dean was dead, and that he was utterly lost and devastated, then show it to me! Show me the devastation. Show me the loss. Having Sam speak about it in very vague terms is not helpful. It doesn't fully demonstrate or reflect his loss.
It also doesn't help to direct Jared to act in a very nonchalant, indifferent way when Dean returns or to have Sam gently hinting that Dean should find someone else to hunt w/him. Dean's "resurrection" appears to have inconvenienced Sam from that great life he was leading w/Amelia, her dad, and her not so dead husband! That certainly didn't help play into this idea that Dean's loss was devastating to Sam.
So, my basic point is I feel we are missing the meat of Sam's story. If Sam ran because he couldn't handle the loss, I need to see it, esp. since it wasn't reflected upon Dean's return. The hugs in MS, 4.01 and LAV reflected the loss Sam felt. They were heartfelt! This one was lackluster and unemotional. We're almost at the mid-season break, and I'm just as clueless about this new Sam as I was in 8.01. That's a problem for me.
So, yes, without a proper story, I can't help but see this Sam that abandons his brother as a coward. Sam has faced many problems in his life. He took on Hell memories for Dean. It's hard to think he broke b/c Dean disappeared, esp. since there's no story being told to go along w/that idea.
Now, I will quickly point out that I have a problem w/the storytelling EVEN IF Sam's time w/Amelia was all in his head b/c he suffered a massive breakdown. I don't feel we've gotten enough hints for that story. If that happens, it will just be a huge twist that may feel like it's coming out of nowhere. Maybe, the memories could be a bit more disjointed or "off." What I find most off about them is the coloring, but as I said, earlier, I'm not sure if that was done to distinguish Sam's FBs from Dean's.
Anyway, that's just how I feel. I hope you can now better understand my gripe w/the show and the writing for Sam.
As far as the cowardly thing is concerned, when Sam uses the words "I ran," I can't help but think "like a coward." I'm not getting the impression that Sam was overcome by depression or that he was overly distraught or that he was on the verge of a breakdown. This story says to me that Dean disappeared, and since Sam didn't know what to do, he just decided to do nothing. He put Dean's disappearance out of his mind and went about his life.
The storytelling is not, IMO, implying anything else. I'm not getting that feeling from the FBs. It's all very "ho hum" to me. I don't feel sad for Sam in the FBs. I don't feel happy for him. I feel absolutely nothing, and I love Jared/Sam.
Whatever these FBs are supposed to be doing for Sam, I'm not getting. It's not resonating w/me. This storyline/angle simply isn't working for me. No aspects of it work - not the writing, not the acting, not the direction, not the set design, not the coloring - none of it works for me.
I love Sam (and Dean) and don't view Sam as a coward, which is why this story is so disappointing to me. I feel like it's destroying Sam as a character.
I see no redemption or chance that Sam will portrayed in any sympathetic light. I'm glad you enjoyed this episode and found good things for every character. I am simply not connecting.
Someone on another board remarked how she understood why Sam fans are upset since Sam's been knocked out of "hero" status. I'm not sure why I should be excited by that, esp. since his motivations haven't even been explored. His conversation w/Amelia's bitchy dad didn't shed any light on Sam and why he "ran" and abandoned Dean. I'm still just as confused as I was 8 episodes ago.
There was nothing, IMO, positive for Sam in this episode. Unless there is a twist to his story, then this episode just cemented his unworthiness. Not only should this guy not be traveling w/Dean as Dean needs someone who would actually have his back in a tight spot, this cowardly, weak Sam shouldn't be hunting either.
I hope there is an explanation for Carver's assassination of this once fine character, but I doubt it.
With all due respect, why do you continue to refer to Amelia as "bitchy" and her dad as "bitchy"?
Amelia may have been like that at first glance, but we then learned that she had suffered a great loss, which certainly explained her emotional state. She was grieving, not just acting that way for the hell of it. "Moody" would be a more proper term than "bitchy" - and certainly more charitable. She also hasn't acted that way since, unless you count the occasional sarcasm. Likewise, her father in this episode was simply a man concerned about his daughter, and wary of the strange new man she was dating. I don't find that worthy of being labeled "bitchy" at all. I thought he was just being good dad - a little intimidating, as any dad would be - but he eventually warmed up to Sam.
Amelia's dad was extremely rude - for no good reason - to Sam. His stank attitude made me understand why Amelia was such a bitch to Sam when she first met him. If he has issues with his 30+ old year (don't know her exact age) daughter moving and dating some guy, take it up with her, not the guy. Amelia's a grown woman who can make her own choices, and Sam did nothing to deserve her father's snarky comments. Plus, I have a major problem with Amelia not pulling her dad aside to confront him on his rude comments to her boyfriend. That's not cool.
I understand that they were all happy in the end. I know that Amelia has "softened." That doesn't change the fact that I don't like or care about Amelia, her dad, or Sam and Amelia's relationship. If it remains in the completely human realm, it will continue to hold very little interest to me. I do not watch Supernatural for romance.
I love romance - even cheesy ones like the Twilight saga! TBD Part 2 was great! That said, I find romance on this particular show to be utterly boring and pointless. That's how I felt about Dean with Lisa and Ben, and that's how I feel about Sam and Amelia.
It's nice that it works for you. It doesn't work for me on any level. Every single Sam FB this year has grinded the show to a halt, IMO. His FBs come out of nowhere and seemingly have no meaning or purpose. Additionally, his relationship w/her is boring. So far, it's just two people who met each other. I don't care. Maybe if she were an alcoholic or bipolar or something, it would be more interesting to me.
Again, everything on the show works for you. That's nice. It doesn't for me. We just have different opinions and expectations for the show. That's all! Yours appear to have been met; mine haven't. Oh well. It is what it is.
I understand things are not working for you and that you are frustrated, and don't like the characters of Amelia and her dad...I guess the repeated use of the derogatory term bothered me. It's much easier to call someone a "bitch" than to try and understand/resp ect their behavior.
It's funny - I HATE romance. :) And I hate the Twilight saga, LOL. But romance on SPN is not usually for romance's sake. As someone else stated - Amelia is there so we can learn more about Sam's state of mind, not just to be his love interest. I think the goal is to humanize him again. Just as Lisa and Ben brought out another facet of Dean's character we weren't aware of, Amelia and her dad bring that out in Sam. Perhaps if you viewed it that way, it would help? Idk.
Amelia's entire attitude rubbed me the wrong way. Honestly, I also found her reason for leaving her town to be weird. She seemed upset that people had sympathy for her loss. I understand the whole idea of not wanting someone to "pity" you, but to me, there's a difference btw pity and genuine sympathy.
Unlike Benny, they really haven't explored Amelia all that much. She's pretty much a stereotype - angry widow meets man and remembers life can be good. I would have preferred Sam and Amelia bond over their depression due to their mutual losses than what has been shown. For instance, why does Amelia say she and Sam are "messed up?" It's perfectly normal, IMO, to be sad if a loved one "died." I don't know. This story has no point that I can see. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be taking away from it if anything at all.
I guess I already found Sam to be pretty human. He didn't need any humanizing to me. I disagree w/Carver in that Sam got too bogged down in mythology. Sam still has emotions and feelings. He's always been very human. IMO, actually exploring the impact of the crazy stuff that happened to him would have been better and more interesting than Sam being in a relationship.
Quote:Pain, be it physical or emotional, is relative.
Stress/pressure is also experienced and responded to differently depending on the person. Same with grief.
One can't judge another person's situation and say, "you shouldn't be feeling this." Something that might stress me out to the breaking point, might seem piddly to you. Something that you might grieve over, might not be something I would. Or we might grieve/stress in different manners, for different lengths of time. It's simply not something that can be judged or measured by anyone other than the individual.
That being said, I feel like it is a much easier thing to go through a difficult time when you have people around to support you. Dean was in Purgatory, and it was hard, but he had Benny. He had Cas. Not to diminish the hardship he experienced by any stretch. But Sam? Sam had no one. No family. No real friends. No one he could trust. And he had just come out of his own hell after being healed from the Lucifer hallucinations. The Job killed off everyone he ever cared about, and when the only one who was left disappeared, he panicked. He lost it. He broke. He fled.
And then he hit a dog, met Amelia, and found something to hang onto that could make him smile again.
If NOTHING else, this storyline makes Sam human again. Relate-able, you know? Vulnerable. But no less heroic.
Quote:I really don't think that is how the comment was intended. And while Dean did say as much about Benny, I don't see how - objectively - knowing what we know about what kind of person/brother Sam is, one could believe that Cas or Benny are actually somehow more worthy than Sam.
But I even feel silly writing such a thing, as if this is some kind of playground-game of "whose the best friend." It's immature of Dean to have made it such.
As for "redemption" - perhaps the question should be: can I forgive these characters for their perceived flaws and past mistakes?
Can I forgive Dean for his flawed moments? For his often aggressive, womanizing, dark and torture-loving moments; for his brashness, callousness, guilt complex, narcissism, hypocritical-ne ss, and occasional arrogance?
Can I forgive Sam for still wanting a normal life, for hating hunting, for his vulnerabilities , his self-destructiv e tendencies, his good intentions gone wrong; for his need to feel in control, his rationalization , and his ferocious independent streak?
Can I forgive Sam for running and giving it all up when his brother disappeared?
I find that my answer, in light of the circumstances and all I know of this character, is yes, without question.
I do sympathize with your lack of connection with this season. I still hope it gets better for you, or that you can find redeeming qualities despite your dissatisfaction s.
Dean has made his mind up: Sam doesn´t need him.
Which in his wacked up brain equals: he had a good life, ate organic apples and was basically just lazing around and lived the high life and had a ball.
He returns from the "dead" (b/c Sam thought he died), and Sam basically shrugged his shoulders and said, " 'Sup." And then Dean learns that Sam didn't look for him b/c he was suddenly rendered clueless about all things supernatural, so he drove around aimlessly until he hit a dog and met some woman. And now that he's back, Sam only ever talks about leaving and tried to convince him to hunt alone.
I'm sorry, but if I were Dean, I would think my "resurrection" hugely inconvenienced Sam. I'm not sure I would be sitting down and talking w/him about anything b/c I would assume there's nothing to talk about.
Sam is just, as he always is, when he has problems: quiet.
Remember the hallucinations?
Tell Dean? Oh no, Dean got enough on his plate right now. No need to know, I´m losing his mind.
No, Dean has no reason to suspect, anything might be off with Sam.
Sam is keeping his mouth shut. Is trying to support Dean the best he can with readjusting... and yeah...
And Dean is behaving like someone, whose brother betrayed him for well.. a girl.
As Garth said: "They are talking, but nobody´s listening"
Or, in Sam´s case... NOT talking
Given what Dean knows, I don't think he would be asking more questions about what Sam did while he was in Purgatory. Sam said he had something he never had before in Amelia and implied he had a nice life while Dean was gone so I can understand why Dean thinks Sam was fine.
German.. sometimes a few things get lost in translation ;)
I know it makes sense for others, but Sam's irrational hatred or dislike for Benny never made sense to me! And the follow up episode was awful in the sense that we were supposed to believe Sam and Dean just got in the Impala and drove away w/o discussing Benny. What?!
It still hasn't been explained. Should I be this clueless about Sam and what he's thinking? Couldn't the writers just . . . . write a plain, straightforward story for him and be done w/it?
Dean loves Sam. He tries to do what he believes is right for Sam. But he has trouble seeing Sam as an independent person who has feelings that are very divergent from Dean's. Dean tends to dismiss how Sam feels because Dean interprets things through his huge feelings of abandonment. Castiel is easier to ask, because Cas isn't Dean's brother and Cas isn't human so any dissonance can be accredited to both those things.
Percy, I don't think your assessment is bad. I think there is a lot of value to it. Hmm . . . I think Dean doesn't want to shut down Sam, but he may be more afraid of what Sam has to say b/c of Sam's independent streak, etc.
I also couldn't agree more w/you about this weak Sam they're portraying. I know some have considered Sam to be a "runner" in the past, but I never have. He didn't run away to college. He told John and Dean he was going to college. He accepted John disowning him, and he left. He didn't run away in Scarecrow. He told Dean where he was going. I also don't consider Hunted or TGND as Sam "running away." Sam left in those instances to do something he wanted to do w/o any interference from Dean. Was it good to sneak away in the middle of the night? No, it wasn't, but Sam wasn't running away from a problem. He saw those times as his attempts to fix problems. And he didn't run away in SF either. Again, he told Dean he was upset and wanted to be by himself. And that reminds me that he also told Dean he was jonesing for DB and needed time away from the hunt in GGY.
Sam has never run away from life or a problem. If Sam had some huge breakdown, then Carver needs to get to it already b/c this current story, IMO, is ruining Sam. They've yet to explain why Sam thought Dean was dead or why he did anything he did after Dean disappeared. At least I, personally, haven't heard a satisfactory explanation.
Anyway, awesome post, RMF! I couldn't agree more w/you esp on the bolded sentences!
Sam: "And I was wrong, every single time I did."
It's canon, according to that scene in "Point of No Return" that Sam does this. He himself admitted that hisQuote: is to bolt when things go awry - that's part of the reason - I think - why him jumping in the pit was such a big deal (other than the fact that he was willingly jumping into a place of eternal torment to save the world). He finally faced his destiny head-on, with his brother by his side. It was an utterly beautiful, poetic redemption arc for his character.
I definitely think Sam leaving for Stanford was running away from a dysfunctional home life and a dangerous lifestyle, which he knew would only lead to pain and death. He wanted out - who can blame him?
"Running away" isn't an inherently negative or cowardly thing. In many ways, Dean's Quote: is to stay or "cling" - and that too, can be viewed as negative or cowardly. He can't let go. He can't move on. He doesn't know how to look after himself. He fears being abandoned so much that the hint of Sam's independence seems like a betrayal. Knowing his history, who can blame him? But perhaps it's a character flaw he needs to overcome, just as Sam has overcome his.
Sam, by his own admission, does seem to have a streak in him that screams to run when things get messy. Part of it is that independent streak. I don't think that is cowardly. If anything, seeing how he has overcome that urge time and time again demonstrates his courage.
Just my opinion on the matter.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I really don't care about what was written. I care more about what I saw. I understand Sam agreed w/Dean that he "ran away" but I hated PONR and most of S5. I never agreed w/Sam "agreeing" that he was wrong to go to college or pursue a life outside of hunting, or that he was wrong to go deal w/his DB addiction on his own, or that he was wrong to not have happy memories of Dean in Heaven (as if Sam's Heaven was only comprised of three memories). I never bought into that idea, so it really doesn't matter to me what Sam said. S5 was a weak season, IMO.
I don't see the show as portraying him as "running away" when things get messy. But we can agree to disagree.
They both have their flaws and are stubborn and most of all HUMAN.
It´s their greatest strength and their greatest weakness.
And without it, we woukldn´t love them half as much.
So, Sam has a fiercely independent streak and Dean is firecly loyal.
Good for them.. except when it´s not ^^
Quote:That's possible...but that would have been Sam not being honest with his brother in the moment - just saying anything to get him to change course. I don't think that makes sense in light of the seriousness of the situation or the context. If what you're suggesting is true, then Sam would have easily said, "I never ran, Dean" and explained himself. That would have convinced Dean just as easily.
Quote:I don't understand the "show tells us such and such" statements. We make value judgments and inferences beyond the characters and the show, don't we? If a killer in a movie gives some great speech about how killing people is good - that does not automatically make that the message of that movie. Likewise, Sam saying that running away was wrong - while being canon - does not automatically make the message of Supernatural to mean that Sam is "bad" or "cowardly" or any other negative label. Especially when Sam is and always has been a main character and protagonist. To view him that way is, IMO, to vastly oversimplify and ignore the personal journey his character has been on.
Granted, one person's inference/value judgment might be that Sam running away = cowardice, even in light of canon. But that's not the show "telling" that person that. That's an independent value judgment/infere nce that person made.
Quote:Sam has been brainwashed by his entire life to label what he did as wrong and running away. Dean and John were unable to see Sam going to college as running toward something. The YED telling Sam that Jess died because he went to college completely tainted that decision by making it the cause of pain and death. Every time Sam seeks independence it falls apart and Sam gets judged by the world and by himself as a failure. In DSOTM Sam is shown that his attempts to create his own identity away from his family, where he was miserable, hurt Dean and had no upside. Sam admitting he always ran was to me more because that is the narrative that he and we have heard since season one. Sam leaves Dean, not because it is good for Sam, but because it hurts Dean. Sam can't be making an independent choice based on his needs, he must be running away and the main concern must be how it affects Dean. That is what the show has shown repeatedly. The perceptions of Sam's choices have always been shown from Dean's POV, which has not helped us see Sam for who he is or isn't, just for what Dean sees.
Ah, what a mess it is when we don't understand where the other person is coming from... Run or cling - it's both a result of their (brotherly) love for each other. So can't we just hug and make up already???
Dean kind of took a supporting role in this one and it was more about Sam and Cas and their respective struggles.
I just watched it in my lunch break and I´ll have to come back to it later, wenn I actually have the privacy to cry... but oh Chuck, that was hard at times.
Castiel trying SO hard and failing. The way he copied the brothers, trying to be like them was just heart breaking.
And Sam?
It´s as if he knows, somethings not right with his memories. And he just goes about it, quietly accepting, that they´re messed up and not right, and just goes on.
Oh poor baby...
Btw: is it just me, or is the make up this season uhm... not so good?
Too much bronzer, way too much?
On all three of the boys. It just looks off.