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Consequences of torture
 
All survivors of torture suffer from physical and/or psychological effects, and many never fully recover from the experience. Life is often described in terms of ‘before’ and ‘after I was tortured’; as the survivor’s personal history suffered an incision at that point. Although everyone who had to undergo torture in whatever form is affected by it, not every person develops a mental condition within diagnostic clinical vocabulary. Not everyone shows symptoms of posttraumatic stress.
 
Now, what about Dean?
 
Dean survived not only the physical trauma during the time he was tortured, but also the psychological trauma which accompanied the physical pain and proved to be more severe (in particular becoming a torturer himself, a massive inconsistency with the protective and caring nature of his).
 
Typical posttraumatic sequelae and symptoms of experienced trauma and coping problems are e.g. recurrent re-experiencing of the traumatic events which will occur in nightmares, hallucinations, flashbacks (even during the day sometimes memories will befall the survivor and he will go through a traumatic moment as if it was happening that very instant which often results in panic, erratic behaviour, sometimes even thoughts of suicide).
 
Dean was often confronted with acoustic (mostly screams) and visual hallucinations (blood red colours, perhaps he even saw something he did or was subjected to, but we, as viewers, were not explicitly informed about it). The moment he experienced those, he got confused and distracted, if only for a couple of minutes (for instance in ‘It’s The Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester’, the masks hanging from the teacher’s ceiling made him remember something from hell and he stopped in his tracks, a reaction Sam misinterpreted as Dean being reminded of his teenage angst). Those masks, though, served as so-called triggers to open memories of horrific events.
 
Other symptoms include the persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness. Survivors will try to avoid any contact with thoughts, activities, places, people that might arouse recollections of the trauma. A variation of avoidance will often be the increased misuse of drugs, alcohol or medication (sedatives and analgesics in particular).

They will also often be incapable of recalling important aspects of the experience, show diminished interest or participation in activities formerly important to them, and they will feel detached or estranged from others. Also their range of showing emotion will mostly be restricted.
  Furthermore, survivors of trauma will frequently feel to have a foreshortened future, not expecting to succeed in their jobs, relationships or even having a ‘normal’ life span.

Additionally, survivors will complain of difficulties falling or staying asleep, nightmares, generally increased arousal, thereby often suffering from outbursts of anger or irritability.
 
The avoidance observable with Dean was expressed by his refusal to talk about his time in hell. In fact, he lied to Sam from the moment he came back, denying to remember anything, which he, unfortunately did. No merciful oblivion here. Memory flashes jumped at him in the coffin, in front of the mirror in the fill-up joint, inspecting the mark of Castiel’s hand on his shoulder, etc. 
 
Dean also showed less interest in hunting, and his reactions changed. For instance in ‘On the Head of a Pin’ the brothers, returning from Pamela’s funeral, talked in the car – Dean was tired, emotionally drained. Before his stint in hell Dean would have been enraged, not unlike Sam. But here we saw only a shadow of his former self. Even the anger he mustered up in defiance of the angels was not full-hearted. In fact, the quiet moment with Castiel, shortly before Dean started to torture Alistair shows in a nutshell the psychophysical state Dean was in at that time (I recommend the extended scene on the dvd).
 
When I work with patients who survived torture of whatever kind (or trauma in general), we don’t talk about the events right away. One of the most important part of therapy lies in the building of a relationship between the patient and myself which will allow him to feel completely safe, respected and understood and – very importantly – which will allow him to assume that I am capable of bearing what he has to tell (when he (or she) will be ready to talk about it). To my experience, that is crucial. Often survivors don’t speak about what they underwent because they feel that they might overtax others, primarily their loved ones, trying to protect them. Furthermore, they need to learn how to stabilize themselves when being overwhelmed by flashbacks.
 
Considering Dean’s relationship with Sam it is most likely that he did not talk about hell for three reasons: a) he was hardly able to handle his memories and afraid of looking back, b) he wanted to protect Sam from the unbearable knowledge of what his brother had to endure (and perhaps protect him from the increase of bad conscience, because Sam had not been able to save Dean from that fate) and c) he was afraid of having to tell the whole truth – that he had become some kind of monster himself.
 
Instead he tried to quiet those inner voices and the nightmares with alcohol. We’ve seen him drink a lot more that he used to, and he got a drink first thing in the morning after waking up. It took him ten episodes into the fourth season to finally open up, at least a little, about his four decades of hell time.
 
I need to sing Jensen’s praises here once again – the manner in which he played that scene could have been taken directly from my work. I’ve seen this on a daily basis so often, and it’s heartbreaking how authentically Jensen delivered those lines. I am in awe whenever I watch him play that moment. However he did it… this is very much how a person in such a situation might react.
 
At first Dean tried to establish some stability with an initial chat, having a beer, slowly beginning to get into the story. All the while not looking at Sam. To be able to speak about it at all, he wasn’t able to see Sam’s face, his feared reaction. Dean started to recount the events in a matter-of-fact way, desperately trying to split away any emotion that might overwhelm him. And Dean managed to do that quite well until he came to the part where he had to admit (once again to himself) what he had done. .’ God help me, I got right off and I started ripping them apart. I lost count of how many souls. The things that I did to them… … how I feel? This…. inside me… I wish I couldn’t feel anything, Sammy. I wish I couldn’t feel a damn thing.’
 
Of course he was wishing to be numb, to not feel anything, as what he carried on his shoulders was more than he felt capable of bearing.
 
But he did.
 
Although there are symptoms of posttraumatic stress to be found, Dean is still functioning on a high level. Those survivors who develop a mental condition clinical psychiatrists/psychologists/therapists call posttraumatic stress disorder usually don’t. They might be able to go about their lives in some way, but very often – from my experience – they are not fit for work (or need a long time to get there), sometimes their relationships fall apart.
 
Dean has undoubtedly been in danger of that. But there are many factors on his side that protected him from getting sucked in by that disorder. He found himself still efficient, capable of doing what he had done from his youth on (fighting the paranormal world), even though the scars, physical and mental, will need more time to heal (if they ever do entirely). I will elaborate that in another article.
 
You might have noticed that, after referring to tortured people as victims, I called them survivors in the second part. I did that deliberately, because I found it essential when dealing with people who have experienced the kind of hell torture provides to help them see that they are above all – survivors.  Some inner strength helped them to stay alive, albeit wounded beyond description. And, hopefully, they will find that again. But the path is stony.
 
It holds true for Dean. He managed to survive, but he will have to learn to live again, having become more than he was before he entered hell. He will learn to defeat the ‘hidden enemy’ of the wounds his soul still carries, fed by guilt, his possible future as Michael’s vessel or the danger of having to kill Sam eventually, should he succumb to the devil, as we have been warned about.
 

Comments  

elenaM
# elenaM 2010-01-05 00:47
*shivers* As ever, your professional perspective on these characters is fascinating. I remember getting chills during H&H at the panic on Dean's face when the angels threatened to hurl him back, and when he called Uriel's bluff on the matter... That ep had its issues, but imho its moments too...
B.
# B. 2010-01-05 03:18
A really terrific, insightful article. You know, last season I was reading some fan comments on various sites saying Dean just needed to 'get over it'. I didn't know what to think, except that whoever was writing the comments had probably never met someone trying to recover from a traumatic experience. Like yourself I was in awe of just how much effort the writers (and JA) had put into making the responses of Dean completely realistic and believable.

Thanks again for the article!

BTW, I'll be really interested to see what your take is on the new episode coming up...
:D
Faellie
# Faellie 2010-01-05 04:41
Jasminka, I'm stunned by that. You've set it all out so clearly, and it makes complete sense.

You make me grateful for the safe life I lead. UN Conventions and medical protocols don't get developed in a vacuum: torture really is going on every day and people are trying to live through it, and its aftermath. Respect to you for your part in helping them with that.

Your article makes me wonder if domestic violence would be better understood, and dealt with, if it were renamed along the lines "relationship torture". Maybe that's already in the textbooks, but it's not a connection I'd made so clearly before reading your article.

Thank you.
Narcissus
# Narcissus 2010-01-05 07:11
I honestly have no idea what to say after reading this. Thank you so very much for this insight Jas.
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-05 09:58
elenaM, B., Faellie and Narcissus, thank you, indeed. I’m actually somewhat taken aback that Alice posted this today, our editor-in-chief does not cease to surprise me…

elenaM, even though I deal with those issues within my work, I still get the shivers, too, when I hear what people are capable of doing unto others. It can be demonic, really, and that it became a ‘demonic issue’ in this show kind of seems organic.
That panic on Dean’s face you refer to… gosh, yes, pages of dialogue in that one instant. How did Jensen become such a fine actor, the guy seems far too young for that kind of ability…

B., you’re right, someone who claims that Dean needed ‘to get over it’ truly has no idea about what it means to get over any kind of trauma. Perhaps, though, those who say that might express their own fear of the phenomenon of trauma. You know, ‘if I treat it as if it was nothing, then it will be so’… Or, it might just be sheer ignorance. Who knows. Many people indeed have no concept of the matter. So they, at least, have been safe in a way – not having experienced trauma nor knowing someone who did (worst case scenario: a loved one affected).

Faellie, so far there is no clinical concept of ‘relationship torture’, as far as I know, we usually subsume that under domestic abuse or abusive relationships (sometimes in the neighborhood of Stockholm Syndrome, given the symptoms, of course). But, you’re right, it is a connection that cannot be ignored.
You know, I still feel shocked at times when I learn of atrocities I haven’t known of, yet, and I’ve heard of plenty. I like that, though, it shows that I haven’t grown numb to it, and I need to stay sharp to be able to do my job well.
Thanks for your acknowledgement . I love this job, even though it’s often exhausting, and then switching between languages, you know, but I’m glad to be able to offer some help. It’s little enough. My patients are the ones who need to do the hard work of getting on with their lives. Or, when they’re sick, to prepare for the end. I’m only there for a small part of their path. They are the ones who deserve a huge amount of respect. These people actually teach me a lot about courage every day.

Narcissus, I know, it’s tough stuff. Sometimes no words are necessary.

Thanks so much, folks!
!
# ! 2010-01-05 13:20
Hi, Jasminka,

An excellent piece, thank you for sharing your true experience in working in this field.

I too have read comments by people from last season saying that Dean should get over it and stop whining. That always amazed me. Get over it?! Really?! How does one just do that? If anything, I would have loved to see more angst...but, true to Kripke's excellent story telling ways, less is more and I can go back and find clues in many of S4 episodes that I missed before...they'r e small but significant all the same.

There is still much angst ahead for both brohters, a fact that I think our first new eppie is going to highlight, I love Winchester angst and I'm thinking we're going to get a double helping right off the bat.

Thanks for writing.
elle2
# elle2 2010-01-05 13:21
Okay, the above post (!) said is from me, Elle2. I'm a bit quick with my typing and must have hit something I didn't intend. So, that's from me.

Elle2
Evelyn
# Evelyn 2010-01-05 14:00
Thank you for a wonderful and very insightful article Jas. Being a survivor myself of childhood abuse, I could really relate to many of the things you said. Thanks.

Also, a thought occurred to me. I remember reading something somewhere that a future episode will explain to us why Dean is so resistant to becoming Michael's vessel. And I wonder if his experience of being totally helpless (at the mercy of others) during his time in hell isn't a part of the reason why he doesn't want to become a vessel. Because, if he does say 'Yes' to Michael, he is once again, becoming helpless and at the mercy of Michael. And then seeing what he will become once Michael leaves his body (as described by Cas in FTBYAM upon seeing Raphael's empty vessel) he doesn't really want to go through that kind of pain again. I know for me, as a child at the hands of my abuser, I had no control over what was done to me, and even now, I avoid situations or circumstances that would mean I could lose that control. (I hope that makes sense) So, with Dean, if he were to succumb to Michael, he would once again lose that control - and that is not something he is really ready or wanting to do at this point. Plus he might not be able to survive it this time, physically, mentally or emotionally.
Randal
# Randal 2010-01-05 14:05
Alright, I've tried *three* times to leave a comment thanks to intermittent power at work, so I'll just say wonderfully exceptional article, Jas.
Bevie
# Bevie 2010-01-05 14:51
You continue to amaze me Jas, with your insight and professional expertise in your articles.

Also I find Jensen amazing in his ability to portray the nuances of Dean's traumatizing experiences and their aftermath in such a subtle and perfectly conveyed manner. I also think of the moment he recognizes Alistair and the revulsion in his expression to be again facing his tormentor and also his expression when Castiel threatened to send him back to hell. I could feel his horror. He does all that without needing words.

I hope he never says yes to Michael. He has given so much of himself I sincerely hope he can (with Sam) overcome without becoming a meat suit. But I have no control over that. It is up to Kripke and the other creators of this awesome series.
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-05 15:41
Elle2(!), Randal and Bevie - wow!

Elle2, thank you. I do have to concur with B. here, as people who said that Dean should have stopped whining didn’t really know what they were talking about (on the other hand, we cannot expect everyone to be familiar with that). Yes, it is a fictional story and the character is not real. However, the creative team here manage to bring us a story that keeps its psychological continuity like hardly any other show I ever watched. Tackling topics like that – torture, war, loss, abuse (remember Max Miller?), religious fanaticism et al – is pretty gutsy in tv-show terms.
Less is indeed more, and Jensen lets it out with the tiniest of nuances… and yet conveying the whole devastated state Dean is in. The man is one of the most talented actors I’ve seen in a long time.

I’m equally excited about the upcoming episode. Supernatural’ s very own cuckoo’s nest… I bet there will be a hell of a lot of angst for the brothers, no pun intended.

Randal, thank you, hope the power at work did not overpower your good humour and spirit…

Bevie, thanks for your kind words. Jensen is indeed heartbreakingly amazing. I also hope that both brothers will not have to say yes to becoming angelic ‘condoms’, as Dean so wryly put it. I think, though, that the glorious basterds, Kripke & Co, will hardly spare us. There is, after all, a lot of potential in that story line, and both, Jensen and Jared, would have great opportunities to strengthen their acting muscles, and a part of me wants to see that. Another part dreads it. Losing Ellen and Jo was soul shattering enough. The brothers as angels at one another’s throat… oh, ye Gods, I don’t know… it would be surely fantastic to watch, but devastating as well.

Thanks! Jas
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-05 15:42
Evelyn, gosh, how brave of you to tell us about your horrific childhood experience. I’m deeply touched.

Of course, being in control is crucial after having experienced the utter lack of control in a situation that damaged your sense of being the ‘master of your fate’. What you’re saying absolutely makes sense! And so does what you say about Dean’s reluctance of becoming Michael’s vessel.
I haven’t heard about that future episode you’re referring to, but one possible reason for Dean’s ‘No’ might well be what you explained based on your own experience. I’m curious about how the writers will give us that story. (Do you have any idea, which episode that might be?)

Evelyn, that those moments from your past still make you avoid situations or circumstances that could endanger you of losing control is no wonder. Please remember, though, that you did survive. Something within you kept your spirit safe, wounded as it might have been. To know that you were able to go on after such a terrible time can wonderfully serve as a bolster for future difficulties in life (we all know that life is hard and when you think that it’s okay now, it will throw a stone in your way, right?).
If you were able to survive the kind of hell you mentioned, then you’ll be able to take on what ever might wait in the dark (but I hope that there is nothing bad waiting!! …just in case).
It’s not the worst thing to know about oneself. Believe me, I know. I’ve had my share of tragedy in my life (albeit of a different kind), and being aware that there is strength in my soul is comforting and inspiring. Never forget what strong colours you call your own. They bring forth light when darkness might creep up.

Thank you for entrusting us here with so intimate a story. Best always, Jas.
BagginsDVM
# BagginsDVM 2010-01-05 17:52
Wow, Jas, just wow. Thanks for such a powerful insight into such a difficult topic. I sometimes must treat abused animals, & all I can offer them is love & patience & try to earn their trust. I don't know that I'd have the ability to help human victims of torture work their way through overcoming it, & I am so glad that there are people like you who can.
Dawn
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-05 18:12
Thank you so much, Dawn. You know, my patients are the ones doing the hardest work here. They need to find the courage to seek help, to open up, to allow a stranger to see them at their weakest (which is, to my experience, in particular difficult for men opening up to a younger woman),… It always moves me when they do, but all I can do, actually, is ask the right questions, provide comfort and shelter to some extent, and listen. It’s not much, really, compared to what they have to do to get a better life. Yet, thank you. Jas.
Freebird
# Freebird 2010-01-05 18:59
Jas, this was an amazing article!!! I have been wondering a lot about Dean's dealing with the pain, and love how the writers and Jensen deliver it. We got a lot of PTSD-patients here in Croatia, people who have experienced the war, and I always say that we all are in a way 'damaged', but I like your 'survivor' better.
Dean not being able to talk about what he had gone through in hell was kinda intriguing to me. I have met several survivors, and still do - soldiers, prisoners of war, refugees. My observation is that, back then while the war was still going on and the first couple of years after it had ended, they all talked. Whether it would be friends, neighbours or just strangers I would meet at the bus station, they all talked about the horrible things that had happened to them. Later, as time went by (it's been 15 years now since the end of the war), people talk less and less - and instead, as you described, the trauma seems to come forth by means of drug / alcohol / medication misuse and apathy.
During the war I once sat in a cafe and a stranger in a soldier's uniform sat at my table, offering me a drink. Apparently he had a 'day off' from the battlefield, and just came to town for a drink. Then he started to talk. I don't recall what he was telling me and I had no idea how to respond, so I just sat there and listened. When he finished, he thanked me for listening and said goodbye. I had friends at the battlefield and on first occasion told them about this, asking about what I could do, what to say? Their response was: Nothing. Just listen.
This event burned into my brain. So, watching Dean being mute, I couldn't help wanting to tell him 'Talk, dude! Get it out of your system!' After all, he has Sam and Bobby, don't need any stranger in a bar.
Jas, you definitely touched a nerve of mine with your article, and I'm grateful for that. Dean, and Sam for that matter, would be lucky to meet you! And me, too ;-) for I'd give them the biggest comforting hug and ear to listen they'd ever get :-)
All the best!
Lara
Ardeospina
# Ardeospina 2010-01-05 20:39
Amazing article, as always, Jas. Thanks so much for sharing your expertise with us!
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 05:19
Freebird, thank you. And thank you for sharing those moments. Believe me, I concur completely.
Apart from various other trauma-affected patients, or German policemen, soldiers et al, I often have patients of all former-Yugoslav nationalities here (well, it comes with speaking several languages, and there seems to be a lack here of trained therapists who do, so they’re often sent to me). I haven’t met one single person from there who has not been affected by the war. I affects me, too. There is hardly anything worse than civil war.

My parent emigrated from YU in the early sixties, long before I was born. My mom came from Zagreb, my dad from a small town in Bosnia, and, so we learned, all of my dad’s family was killed during a raid which makes me the sole survivor of my gene pool. We happened to be in Croatia in the beginning of the war there, and I very distinctly remember the sound of grenades hitting buildings.

It has made me a better therapist, I believe, as I can relate to those events more. I know how gunfire sounds or the smell of blood, and I understand my patients better. I’m very grateful for that.

You’re right, you know. Listening is one of the most important things here. Aside from all those therapeutic techniques and methods I was trained to apply to help people, I find the most important asset – to be able to just listen, even though it can be overwhelming at times. But who am I to complain? I have time to invest in watching a tv-show and rambling about it, as opposed to struggling to get my family fed every day. I lead a more-or-less safe life, I’m healthy, I have a job I love and wonderful people in my life – they, sometimes, have lost all that. Doing this job is a very humbling experience, I realize now again for the umpteenth time.

You know, I guess it might have even been easier for Dean to open up to some stranger in a bar. Then he would not have had to fear Sam’s reaction or take care of not overcharging him. Can you believe that we’re talking about these characters as if they were real? One could get crazy thinking about that… I’ve love to give away a dozen Pulitzers to the writers for the authenticity alone.

Lara, thank you.
Jas
Sablegreen
# Sablegreen 2010-01-06 10:45
Great article Jas. You and I do think much alike. Yes, listening to someone, and letting them talk at there own speed in their own time, has more benefits than most would think. And yes, it is much easier to talk to a stranger sometimes, than to a loved one. Strangers are 'safe' as they don't know you well enough to prejudge. Dean did that twice in the series, once to Cassie, and the second time to Gordon. One plus, one minus...guess the third time must be the charmer! :D
Evelyn
# Evelyn 2010-01-06 12:16
Jas, thank you for your kind words and wisdom. Yes, I came out of my situation stronger than ever and realized that I have more strength than I thought. In my belief all that strength came from God to help get me through my trauma and the continued lingering effects. It never goes away. It becomes a part of you and who you are.

So, in the relation to this show, Dean's character, I can really empathize for what he is going through and feel and understand his pain, anger and lack of self-esteem. The writers have written him so beautifully and Jensen (well, what can I say about Jensen that hasn't already been said), he has portrayed this pain and angst so touchingly. All the nuances involved in the psyche with this trauma have been played out very well. And it's lovely to see that Dean is also now realizing the strength within himself. I cannot wait to see how the writers end this season when God comes into the picture. It will be very interesting to see how they treat that and what Dean's (the guy who doesn't believe) reaction will be.

As for the aforementioned upcoming episode where they explore why Dean refuses to say no. I cannot remember where I read that. It could have been a rumor that someone just thought they would post. It might have been on Spoiler TV. I wish I could remember or find it. I could be wrong but if they do do an episode like that it will be very interesting.

As for the upcoming episode on the 21st, I am so very much looking forward to that. There are still so many issues under the surface with the brothers and from the synopsis, it sounds like some of those may be explored. It should be a great episode. Can't wait! Is it Jan 21st yet? :-)
Freebird
# Freebird 2010-01-06 12:45
Jas, thank you. You're right, we are so lucky to lead a normal, apple-pie life, I mean, sure, everyone carries one's own cross, but still: if we can invest our time in an in-depth look of a tv show, then we are lucky.
I know, talking about Dean and Sam as they were real is ... aehm ... surreal :-? I find myself often wondering if there's anything wrong with me. And then read articles like yours, and Alice's, and Bardic Voice's, and know that I'm actually quite okay, and lucky to be part of the SPN fandom. Because, apart from the supernatural stuff (which attracted me to the show in the first place, I'm a sucker for that), everything else seems so real that it actually answers questions I have been asking myself, and motivates to take a closer look into my own life. Geeky, huh?
Jas, thanks for sharing your story. You know, I'm a Gastarbeiter-ki d myself :-) born and raised in Germany, but my family returned home when I was in High school. But I still feel at home in Germany, actually am going there on Saturday, on business and visiting friends. I understand it's like on the North Pole there right now? *shudder*
Have a great day!
Lara
Freebird
# Freebird 2010-01-06 12:59
Evelyn, I recall reading about that future episode, too, somewhere, sometime ... not sure, but I think it was an interview with someone, somewhere ... I'm not of much help, am I?
Thanks for sharing your story, Evelyn, what a brave thing to do. It made me think of a quote from the movie 'Into the wild': "I read somewhere... how important it is in life not necessarily to be strong... but to feel strong." Wish you a huge feeling of strong!
All the best!
Lara
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 16:16
Ardeospina and Sablegreen, thank you, gals!
What do you think, Sablegreen, who might be the charmer that makes number three? I’d like to give the brothers a bit love, you know, bring in a nice woman for each of them, if only for an episode… oh, well, a fan can dream, right? I’d love to see Sarah again… again… dream on, girl… :oops: Jas
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 16:19
Evelyn and Freebird, touched.

Evelyn, I’m delighted for you that you found a source of strength in faith. Everyone need such a source, and sometimes it’s hard to find. Now, I’m not a fan of Nietzsche, but he said one important and very true sentence once: ‘What does not kill me only makes me stronger’.

I also can hardly wait for the next episode! Hey, remember how we started this hiatus? Now it’s only two weeks to go…. And I bet we won’t be disappointed…

Lara, why should there be anything wrong with you….? I think the authenticity of the characters and their relationships are the key to the success of this show. Apart from the paranormal stuff, this is how people within extreme circumstances might act or react. I believe they can also serve as role models in a way or inspire people to remember their own strength and courage (which holds true for those patients of mine who are fans (every once in a while one emerges), and we have used the show in therapy… wonder what Kripke would say if he knew that?).

Well, you better pack warm clothes. Here it’s -15 C tonight (for the life of me, I can’t think of the Fahrenheit equivalent), and we have enough snow to force me to get up very early (she cringed helplessly) to clean it…

Well, happy freezing everyone, Jas
Sablegreen
# Sablegreen 2010-01-06 16:47
Silly question Jas....ME! :D :D :D
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 17:10
Even sillier... Sablegreen,how about a deal- you get Dean, I get Sam... Don't make me get out my zombie aligator, girl... :lol: :lol: :lol: Jas
Sablegreen
# Sablegreen 2010-01-06 17:31
Don't need to think about that one at all...deal!! Although I was half tempted to decline just to see the zombie aligator! :twisted:
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 17:58
oh, well, Sablegreen, how glad I am that we're in agreement here... Would have had to ask Suze about that undead animal anyway... I'd have a zombie neighbour, though (the guy surely looks the part). Well,then, we have a deal, now I can sleep.... :roll:: Jas
Karen
# Karen 2010-01-06 23:04
Hi Jasminka
Wow! What can one say. I couldn’t begin to listen to the atrocities of what these people have lived thru, without becoming a blubbering mess. These patients would be consoling me at the end of the session. I commend you on your line of work and your ability to help them.
What Dean went thru is just unimaginable. How could one not come back and not be changed or damaged in some way. I think they displayed the effects perfectly. Even his hesitation to go after Lilith, always telling Sam they need to pick the right moment, where as before he would have been going full force into finding her. In Yellow Fever how terrified he was when Lilith showed up. I know the Ghost sickness was the cause of this, but it did emphasize what Dean feared the most, Sam turning evil and returning to Hell and facing Lilith again.
And I think it brings to light what Sam must have been thinking and feeling for Dean.
Seeing his brother going from Hans Solo and/or Indiana Jones to a shadow of what he was. Seeing his brother break down for probably the first time in his life. No wonder he couldn’t let go of the idea that Dean wasn’t strong enough to defeat Lilith.
Thanks again Jas.
Evelyn
# Evelyn 2010-01-07 12:40
Alas, someone else remembers reading about a future episode delving into why Dean refuses to say 'yes' to Michael. Thanks Freebird, I do believe it was in an interview (might have been with Sera). Also, thanks for your kind words. The biggest lesson I learned is that we all have more inner strength than we realize.

And as Sablegreen aptly put it, yes, strangers are easier to talk to, more so than family (at least it was for me). I would be most happy and delighted to be one of those 'strangers' for Dean. I think I could relate and would relish the 'virtual opportunity'. :D

Karen, I agree with you about the fears that were brought up in Yellow Fever. I hadn't really thought about that episode in that way, but yes, it really did bring up all his inner fears. Generally, I have a problem with that episode being as to how passive Sam and Bobby seemed to act and react in saving Dean. I thought they should have seemed more concerned than they were. But, I guess the point was to bring up Dean's fears - I'll now rewatch that episode from a different point of view.

Stay warm everyone. It seems Mr. Winter has arrived everywhere.
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-07 16:29
Karen, thank you so much for your acknowledgement ! It took me a lot of training to get where I am and to be able to do this job. Luckily my patients differ, and not everyone of them underwent a treatment comparable to that I described here. Tomorrow, for instance, I’ll be climbing several flights of stairs of an observation tower with a girl who’s afraid of heights. Up and down, up and down… Looking forward to that, actually, as it will allow me to skip my evening workout in favour of a movie, haha…

I think you noticed very sensitively those nuances in YellowFever’s Dean. So did Sam, and he really thought he needed to save Dean by killing Lilith, ah, well, it’s been discussed so many times. I just remember some fans getting mad about Sam going on his ‘wrong’ path and not accepting why he was doing it… I can imagine Sam being hardly able to bear the change in Dean. It must have scared him big time, since Dean had become something else than the cocky big brother he had looked up to all his life.

Evelyn, I can’t imagine one fan here who would not welcome the ‘virtual opportunity’ to give Dean some comfort… as long as I get Sam onto my virtual couch, I’m okay with that… (that would be my living room, not my office, come on :o

And yes, Evelyn, it's freezing. I'd love to kick Winter out of our hemisphere, I'm more a spring girl... oh well, it's already January... Won't take long...
8-) Jas
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-21 16:19
Hey, Clarice, it’s so nice to hear that you liked this! Sometime people actually do look up older posts? Wow, that’s great! Thanks a lot for your acknowledgement !! Cheers, Jas