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Warning!!!!  If you haven't seen the latest episode of "Supernatural," do not read this!  There is going to be plot-based speculation about Sam's actions and possible motivations behind them.  You've been officially warned!
Now that that's out of the way, I think it's time we all started talking about what we think is wrong with Sam, because it's pretty obvious that there's something seriously wrong.  The impetus for this discussion was a prompt in the Cbox by Dmakdavis, who wanted a place to come and talk about Sam's character development this season, a place to speculate about what's going on with him and why.
So I'll start things off and then hand the reins over to you, commenters!  I hope to update my thoughts on Sam after each episode, if we get some new information or reveals.  Here we go.
The PTSD theory
Up until tonight's episode, "Live Free or Twihard," I thought Sam had a very bad case of PTSD, or Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.  He was cut off emotionally from everyone and everything around him.  It really looked like he was going through the motions whenever he interacted with someone instead of making any sort of meaningful connection.  He didn't seem overly happy to see Dean again, or not as happy as we might expect him to be.  He's sleeping with hookers because, I think, he simply doesn't want to form any sort of emotional connection with a woman.  He didn't flinch when Cass had to torture a child to get information.  I thought he was just so broken, so emotionally cut-off that he was acting completely out of character.  Even Samuel Campbell, not the model of good behavior, noticed something was off.  But now I have a different theory.
Sam Doesn't Have a Soul
After "The Third Man" and the revelation that Balthazar was buying souls, I thought maybe Sam had sold his soul to get out. I wasn't on board with it yet, but I thought it was interesting and had potential.  But after Sam stood by and smirked while that vampire turned his brother, the only thing I can think is that Sam doesn't have a soul right now.  Because if it is only PTSD, I am going to be so amazingly pissed at him, I can't even tell you.  I will be so mad -- flames.  Flames from the side of my face.  Because I don't care how badly you are hurting and how broken you are, you don't let your brother get turned into a vampire when you could have done something about it!  Now, I don't in any way mean "only PTSD" like it's nothing.   PTSD is incredibly debilitating and awful and extremely serious and is not to be taken lightly at all.  I mean that there better be a supernatural explanation because otherwise, I'm not sure how they can ever repair his character.  I'm sure Dean at some point will forgive him, because Dean always does, but I don't know if I could.  I'll wait and see how this plays out, but boy, Sam, you are on thin ice here, boy-o.
One of the reasons I think Sam doesn't have a soul as opposed to just sold his soul is because when Dean and Bobby sold their souls, they were still pretty much themselves.  They didn't completely transform like Sam has.  And yes, I know that his time in Hell absolutely must have changed him.  But not to this extent, surely!
Why I Don't Think He's Still Samifer
There are a few reasons I don't think Sam is still possessed by Lucifer right now.  First and foremost, if Lucifer managed to get out of Hell, don't you think someone would know about it?  Crowley probably would, as king of Hell, and with his history, I'm sure he would not be pleased about the whole thing.  In fact, he'd be downright terrified because you know Lucifer would be coming for him after the part Crowley played in getting Luci caged up.  Death would probably know, too, if Lucifer busted out because he'd probably have to do something Lucifer wanted, like destroy a town or raise some zombies or something.  And honestly, the biggest reason I don't think Lucifer is still in there is because the Powers That Be have said we were done with that story line, and I believe them.  I don't think they are going to revisit that any time soon.  At least, I hope not because I would like it to be something besides Lucifer.
Okay, so that's what I'm thinking at the moment.  What about you?  Do you agree with anything I've said, disagree?  What are your theories and why?  Let the speculation begin!


# Alice 2010-10-23 00:41
To be perfectly honest, Sam really crushed me. I'm not sure what is up, but if it turns out he's just acting with a tactical mind completely devoid of emotion and was using Dean as a way to get to the alpha knowing there was a cure, I hope to God they lock him in Bobby's panic room and throw away the key.
# zakko 2010-10-23 00:45
As to the Sammifer theory, I say no way. Angels could recognize each other at first glance. Cas would have seen his brother.

Right now, the only thing that makes sense is Sam has lost his soul. The hows and whys? I got nothing. Maybe his soul was ripped from his body as he broke free of the pit. Maybe one of these alphas has it, and that's why Sam is so keen on finding them. I really don't know. However, one great side to this theory is, find the soul and WHAMMO insta!Sammy. I am in favor of this plan.

But after tonight, the only explanation that doesn't make me want to run Sam over with a truck is his soul is MIA. Kudos to the writers for an episode that evoked such fury at a much loved character. Even more and louder kudos WHEN THEY FIX THIS!.

If any of this theory works out, I am unsure how I feel about season 6 being the quest to find Sam's soul. Hope it resolves MUCH sooner.
# Goddessmomwith4 2010-10-23 00:50
My take is the angels. We know there's a war goin on and Cass is harder, perhaps one of the angels are behind this cold Sam. Second theory-without bringing lucifer back into play, mentally it is "residue" from being worn to the prom and what Samifer did while being worn is stuck to his soul.
Whatevr it is, Sera is taking us for a ride! The boys are doing an awesome job with these roles, as usual!!
# Chaonea 2010-10-23 00:57
I saw your link up on Twitter, and decided to chuck my two cents in:

I think that this is not Sam. Or, to be more precise, NOT!Sam. Maybe it's some sort of doppelganger/cl one/construct (and NOT a shapeshiftery one).

I think that you're right that it isn't Samifer, and I don't think that any other angel would be able to ride around in a Sam suit (at least not without some visible and obvious side effects).

While I believe that there is a soullessness issue going on, some of the responses don't register as Sam - even Robo!Sam. The smirk, for example. The agitated response to the shapeshifter baby. The hooker that looks like Ruby - I mean, if he's going to go for a hooker anyway, why not one that looks like Jess?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that NOT!Sam is up to no good, whatever he is.
# Scarlotti 2010-10-23 01:03
I don't think it's a missing soul. Sam has a missing -- and one that he will mercilessly endanger/hurt innocent people to achieve. To date he has used a baby shifter for bait (and brought about the death of his cousin in the process), allowed Cas to torture a boy for information, allowed Dean to be turned in order to use him for bait as well. In two of the three instances, Sam has used/endangered others to achieve the same end -- to capture an Alpha. So whatever is wrong with Sam, it somehow ties in with the emergence of Alphas, the Campbell's secret mission of capturing them, and the unknown entity on the phone with Grampa who is obviously calling the shots. So far, this attitude is in keeping with the pre-Hell Sam's behavior -- he wasn't above killing demonically possessed people (and drinking their blood) in order to achieve his goal of defeating Lucifer. Sam has been willing to sacrifice himself and others for the greater good since Season Four. What *is* disturbing about Sam's behavior in Season Six is the evil little smile he let slip when Dean was being turned. My suspicion is that he smiled because it was in that moment that he formed the plan to have Dean infiltrate the nest. Which brings us back to the mystery of the Alphas, and to Sam's obsessive mission to capture them.
# Sharon_lily 2010-10-23 01:51
Why dont you blame the writers not Sam after all they write the character, every action he takes comes from them.
They dont care about him so why care about what he does.Just should of left him alone , being in that pit at least his sacrifice would of meant something. Now they have destroyed him for Saint Dean sake . Sam story we have had for 4 Seasons. The disgust I feel for the show right now cant be described.
# Evelyn 2010-10-23 02:08
What has happened to Sam? I was right along with you Arde in thinking that he had an extreme case of PTSD. After tonight, I just don't know anymore. He may still have a case of PTSD, but now I realize that it is so much more than just a case of PTSD.

I don't think he is Samifer either. Why else would Raphael be wanting to kick start the apocalypse back up and release Lucifer from Hell if he were already topside. So, I think Lucifer is still safely tucked away in his cage. Besides, the look on Sam's face of hurt, disappointment, and fear, when Castiel told Dean and Sam about Raphael's plan, showed us, just a little, that there is still some of Sammy beating inside.

As to soulless Sam - I am leaning more toward that than any other theory. He has to have some soul there lurking around, just not his complete soul. It is indeed puzzling and I'm hoping that we get some answers next week with Veritas instead of more questions.

As to Grandpa Samuel, I didn't trust him at first, but now I am changing my feelings towards him just a little, especially after seeing his reaction to Sam and how Sam feigned innocence when Samuel confronted him about knowing about the cure.

It's interesting, TNT showed the episode 'Faith' today and the Sam in that episode, the one that will do anything to save Dean, is definitely NOT the Sam we are looking at today. I can't wait for Sera and Co. to reveal what the heck is going on here. I for one am ready for some answers, instead of more questions, on top of questions, on top of questions.
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2010-10-23 02:28
Sammifer, nope. Mainly because the producers etc said that storyline was finished. Plus, if you kept bringing Lucifer back as the big bad, he’d lose his impact. Think Lex Luther etc.

Without a soul? God, I hope not. I’m a little afraid that’s the way they’re going though because it would be the simplest explanation. It would also tie in with the general ethos of seasons past as it would lead to ANOTHER fucking season of ‘Oh no, Sam isn’t fully human, let’s go fix him’. Joy....

PTSD? This is what I’m hoping but Sams behaviour in this episode now seems to be too extreme for PTSD. I also think the complexities of same will be tremendously difficult to play out on screen. I’m not sure what it’s like elsewhere but here, so little is known about and invested in mental health that PTSD wouldn’t be accepted as an explanation (a lot of people wouldn’t know what it is). If you told someone in Ireland you had PTSD the response would probably be ‘Ah for fuck sake, get over it’.

In other words, I don’t think many viewers will accept/understa nd PTSD as an explanation as to why Sam is so different, mainly because mental issues are still quite taboo, are hugely subjective, and I don’t know if SPN has the scope (or the balls?) to go that route.

The last bit of hope (and it is the very last...) is that maybe Sam sacrificed part of himself for Adam or that he, while as a vessel, got to see and understand Lucifers planned end result, and as a result of that, can no longer afford to think small. He has to be ruthless now. I just don’t know.....

Maybe I’m just tired but I can’t see any way back from this. I genuinely can’t. The bar has been set too high for Sam to get over now. Any return to the brotherly relationship of old will now have to come from Dean and will be based solely on his capacity to forgive Sam, which of course he will do, but with that, any equality in the relationship will be gone. It will be Sam, the wrong-doer, needing to be forgiven by his big brother, once again.

For general fandom (having made the mistake of hitting the big 2 earlier,) Sam is now completely unredeemable, so no matter what explanation is given, it won’t be enough to quell the loathing that's out there towards the guy.

I think I’ve lost faith. After more than 5 seasons of character thrashing, I’ve finaly lost faith. I don’t trust the show any more. The writers are (and have been for years now) making it so fucking hard to support Sam that, while yes, it is a challenge; it is also wearying because they are leaving very few viable options for Sam to be accepted, to be understood, to be sympathetic, while still being human.

It’s 20 to 5 in the morning and I’m literally crying with frustration over what has been done to Sam, not the Pit etc but the ignominy his character is being subjected to week in, week out. I sure it’s part of the 'bigger storyline' but we’re almost ¼ the way into season 6 now and I fear that by the time the writers get around to ‘explaining†™ Sam, the damage will be irreparable and it will be too little, too late.
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2010-10-23 02:37
Memo to self: Learn to spell 'Samifer' Only one 'm'.

And stop swearing...
# Jasminka 2010-10-23 04:07
so sorry, I am a curious cat (and we all know what happens to those...) I have only flipped through the article and the comments without having watched the episode yet - I am still looking for a download chance... grrr...

But this leaves me even more curious and biting my nails than I expected to be. I thought initially: hey, as a vampire lore fan from youth, the combination of our Winchesters and Vampires with Dean actually becoming one would catapult me into Vampire Heaven.

Now I'm really on my toes and can't wait to watch the episode. I already have a feeling I'm gonna spend Sunday writing...
slightly despairing, Jas

P.S. I will join the speculation when I have seen the episode, Flamey
# betty 2010-10-23 04:56
I can't help but wonder if, while in Hell, Sam sold his soul to become topside again. I can imagine a scenario where Sam wanted to see Dean again, and sold his soul to do so. Except that in his case, selling his soul made him not even really care about Dean anymore once he came back.

Another theory is that Sam sold his soul to fight the Alphas on earth, which he might have learned about during his time in Hell.

The poster mentioned that a soul-less Sam is a lot different from when Dean and Bobby sold their souls. The diff is that Dean and Bobby didn't part with their souls when they made the bargain, but only promised their souls to the demon, which would be taken from them upon time of death. The Sam we see here is without a soul entirely.

Great site, by the way. I just joined. I really like this place.
# Yvonne 2010-10-23 05:10
Thanks for providing the space Arde.

I just don't know. I've dumped the PTSD theory as well. No way does that diagnosis cover all this...this behavior. He SMILED. He WAITED. Think my heart stopped and I nearly screamed when that happened.

Sam would not do that. For that reason, I'm leaning more toward the no soul/partial soul theory. I'm leaning toward ANY theory that gives room for Sam's redemption. I'm with zakko. Instant Sammy back=good plan. Angsty, pain filled wonderful Sammy. Who loves and fights for his brother.

And Tim the Enchanter, stay strong. Trust in Sera, she loves Sam as we do. Even if she didn't, Kripke still has a say, and do you really believe he'd allow this wonderful character who sacrificed all for love of family, to be irredemably besmirched?

Sammy is still out there, somewhere. Whether buried so deep inside that horrible, smiling, cold thing wearing Sam's face; or still screaming in the cage; or something else. Sammy still is.
# Yvonne 2010-10-23 05:12
And welcome to the site betty!
# betty 2010-10-23 05:24
To Yvonne:

Thank you! :D

And I agree. I can't see that Kripke or Sera would irrevocably dump our sensitive, thoughtful Sammy forever. I believe we'll get our Sammy back (hopefully soon). Sam always comes through, even when everybody loses hope in him.
# Yirabah 2010-10-23 05:26
Hello Betty thanks for joining us. And yes you are right this is a great site.

I thought I couldn't believe my eyes when Sam watched that Dean got turned. That he didn't jump in to action until after it happened. And then later to hear that he knew about the cure and didn't tell Dean. Gosh Dean could have taken some human blood somewhere and it could have been to late for the cure.

My theory is that who ever brought Sam back brought him back without a soul. Don't know what reason should be behind that so.

Each season had one big storyline that kind of got resolved towards the end of the season though I think that this is the story for this season - soulless Sam. If so we will have to wait and suffer with Sam till spring next year. (But I sure hope I am wrong on this one)

And another thing: I was surprised that I suddenly liked Grandpa and was fully on his side. Maybe the Campells are not as bad as we all thought.
# det_coverdale 2010-10-23 07:44
Honestly? I got no freakin' idea what's up with Sam. I'd put money on him NOT being Lucifer but apart from that...
Can I buy a vowel?
I don't think Dean should kick Sam's (fine) ass. I think he should trap him in a lie - 'cause we all know he's been lying. Or just trap him. Any suggestions, Bobby?
On the up-side, I bet Jared loves playing this Sam.
Oh I hope we get some answers soon.
# AndreaW 2010-10-23 08:50
Well, I'm still a Samgirl after watching this episode but boy, this was the first time that Sammy got me REALLY scared. I couldn't believe he just stood there watching. I was crying at the screen: go, move, do something! I just don't know what to think anymore.

I agree with what Sharon_lily said. This bad Sam vs good Dean stuff will end up ruining Sam's character for good. There will be a time when fandom will want him dead (for good). Until now, I was excited about Sam's mystery and how it would unfold. But now I'm seriously worried.
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-23 09:03

I just had a first partial glimpse of 6.05 and ... it does appear that Sam was just cruel - not just cold or apathetic, buty downright ... cruel.

It appears that Dean may have been right about Sam using the baby as bait in 6.02.

The way Sam is now acting is like it's the complete opposite of brotherly affection and concern. I do appreciate that there may be a greater evil threat (with the alphas building their armies ?), but to throw your brother like that into the fire - Sam's deception of Dean has some parallel with the way Ruby cruelly deceived Sam, I think.


I've always favored the speculation that there is something supernaturally wrong with Sam - I'm not sure whether it is a simple case of a missing soul (my previous speculation) anymore.

Hopefully the truth - or part of it - will come out soon (or perhaps even next week :-).
# magichappening 2010-10-23 09:53
Holy freakin' Cow.

When Sam just stood there and smiled while his brother was being turned, I actually yelled 'What are you DOING?' at the TV... I love how this show continues to shock me. In the middle of a vampire movie send-up, we get a moment of totally unexpected, heart-stopping horror. Bravo.

Sam's heart rate did not rise when Dean had been turned. This was not Sam pretending to be unconcerned, but inwardly desperate. This was Sam unconcerned. I am with everyone who does not think it is cos of Sam still being Lucifer and thinks it is something to do with Sam's soul. Not sure what though. Judging from the promo of next week, Sam does know though.

If I remember correctly, Alistair once told Dean that he had left a part of himself in Hell. I wonder if something similar has happened to Sam - but with a twist. When Dean was going to kill Crowley anyway in Scotland, Sam stopped him and said 'a deal's a deal'.A number of people commented on this at the time.

Did Sam make a deal for his freedom with 'something'? Was his part of the deal having to round up the Alphas of various supernatural creatures and give them to this thing? Is his soul/part of his soul, being held as collateral? Or was that a side deal to make him a better hunter for the Alpha hunt?

But then what is Grampa's game? Who was he speaking to on the phone? Why does Grampa want the Alphas too? Who resurrected Grampa as well if it was a deal Sam made? And why was Grampa questioning Sam about allowing Dean to get turned and accusing him of already knowing about the cure? Why did Sam keep asking Dean what he saw in the nest? What was he hoping to hear? Did he know about the coming war? Why has he not said anything if so?

Enquiring minds want to know.

But I for one do not want all of the questions answered immediately. We are only in Episode 5 of a 22 part season. The ride is the reason.

That said, I do agree with Alice. I think the fact that the writers had Sam allow Dean to be 'killed' is huge. I am a Deangirl, but I do love Sam too. How do we forgive Sam for this? There better be an unbelievably clever twist that makes this OK...and even then...
# MisterGlass 2010-10-23 09:58
Well, I have to agree with everyone that PTSD as the, sole explanation is off the table, and Samifer seems even less likely.

I am not sure about soulless Sam though, because there have been a few moments of genuine feeling from Sam in Season 6. He was anxious to help Bobby, and he was heartbroken and furious about the loss of the Charger (I know his love for the Charger is not a huge point in his favor, but it is something.)

It is almost like Sam is at his most human when he isn't trying to be. When he has a gut reaction to something, it feels genuine, but when he has time to think, he turns cold.

Sam, the old Sam, is still there, but it's like something else has been grafted on top. Whether that's another entity in control of him or not, we'll have to see.
# RisenShine 2010-10-23 10:11
Now a lot of the comments made during VanCon by cast and crew make sense finally - they were in the middle of filming this mess!
I don't think Sam's behaviour has anything do do with Lucifer inside him or controlling him.
It's probably not a clone just looking like Sam, it's Sam on a mission! And he would do everything to accomplish his goal. It could be a deal (a deal's a deal) or it's all about his soul - my guess: both! Maybe it's a Horcrux thing: Sammy's soul in several pieces all over the place (the Alphas's got them?!?). There has to be a part of his soul left inside of him or Castiel would have noticed. If he's completely soulless than I don't think he would feel this urge to get it back and stop at nothing.
# Stephanie 2010-10-23 10:19
You know, I've always been a Sammy girl, but even I'm starting to not be able to justify it anymore. I really hope we get answers sooner rather than later, because the writers are really starting to make him irredeemable.

I also hope that if his soul is gone, it's something that was done TO him and not done BY him because I think that would really negate all the progress he made last season.

# Jeannine 2010-10-23 11:27
:o That was my face when Sam stood in that alley with that smirk. What the heck, Sam?!?!? And then he's asking Dean later how does it feel? And his lies, he's not even trying to act sincere. I am totally at a loss here. I hope we find out soon what's going on because this just broke my heart. I am sooo disappointed in Sam right now.

I'm not going to pretend to understand PTSD and how people behave when suffering from it. But I am seriously thinking at this point that it is much, much worse than that with Sam. The trailer for next week hinted at something else as well. But I agree with everyone else here, it definitely isn't Lucifer. Is Sam missing his soul? Can someone live without a soul in the SPN world? Up until now, everyone who lost their soul on this show was dead.

It's obvious that Sam and Dean stick together after next week and I can't imagine Dean staying around without some answers soon, so I'm hoping what is revealed is something that we can forgive Sam for. I really need to be able to forgive Sam soon. See, here I am back to having my heart broken again.
# percysowner 2010-10-23 11:31
I have 2 theories. One is that with all the beating us over the head with Dean thinking he left something behind in the Pit; is that Dean did leave something behind in the Pit. That this part finally broke and turned demonic, but still loved Sam enough to get him out somehow. That would leave Sam guilt ridden and aware that Dean isn't 100% Dean. He may be testing Dean to see if the missing part of his soul is affecting Dean in any way. The other option is that Sam is working on getting the missing part of Dean's soul back and finding a way to un-demonize that part.

The other posiblity is that Sam didn't lose part of his soul, but he gained all of Adam's soul. Yes, I know Micheal said Adam was gone, but it isn't as if we haven't seen angels lie before. Sam's body was full of demon blood and may have been protected physically while in the cage. Adam didn't have that luxury and only his soul would have been there. When Sam got the chance to get out, he may have demanded that Adam be saved too. If the only way to do that is for Adam to be placed in Sam's body, then Sam may be operating with multiple personalities and Adam being the one calling may of the un-Samlike shots. Adam wouldn't care much about Dean being hurt and Adam has proven, just as Sam has that he is willing to make sacrifices to save the world. He took on Michael to save the world from Lucifer, so he may be the driving force behind Sam's remoteness and indifference to the suffering of individuals in order to save the world.
Bettina K.
# Bettina K. 2010-10-23 12:03
Of course there will be an explanation and it better be a good one! You don't jump into the box with the devil and get away with it. I'm sure Dean and I will get our Sammy back at the end of this season and all is forgiven. In Sera I trust.
Wild guesses?!? Sam struck a deal with Crowley, if Crowley's gone so is Sam's deal, whatever that means. Does Crowley want the Alphas out of his way? Have rogue angels unleashed the Alphas to get rid of the mud apes on this planet?
# AndreaW 2010-10-23 12:05
Taking what someone said above, I'm more inclined to think that whatever is happening to Sam, it was made TO him and not BY him, unless he lost his memories. There are hints here and there that Sam is the first one to be puzzled about himself. When Castiel told him they didn't know who brought him back, he seemed genuinely confused.

In the baby episode, Samuel said to him: "sometimes I wonder about you Sam", to which he answered: "sometimes I wonder about me too". And he seems to be really surprised when someone quesitons his actions, as if he doesn't realize he's acting strange. If he had sold his soul willingly, he would know what is wrong.
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-23 12:12
Interesting theory, Bettina.Got me thinking a bit.

Perhaps the Alphas are part of the nukes from heaven that has gone missing :P (And Alphas originate from heaven, just as Lucifier did) And so Samuel is working for either Castiel or Raphael ... or some other angel.

Oh well ... is it Friday yet ? :-)
# bookdal 2010-10-23 12:32
I think he is soulless - I've thought that since the first episode. However, I think (and I could be wrong) that his soul maybe topside too. And he would not have been reaped because he's not dead. I think there is bodySam! and then spiritSam! It'd be really interesting if we eventually have two Sams around at some point - perhaps he is watching himself do these things and be this way.

Just a theory though.
# Morganslady 2010-10-23 12:33
I think we are seeing a souless Sam.. He might not have sold his soul,but however he got out it was without his it. We are seeing Sam's shell but not his essence.
# hjradcliff 2010-10-23 13:20
Sam's attitude could have something to do with all the demon blood he drank to take on Lucifer. It had to have some kind of impact on him. Hopefully we get some answers soon, I'm going to get a migraine worrying over those Winchesters.
# Jeannine 2010-10-23 13:35
Okay, okay, I'm going to share my shower thoughts (not as kinky as it sounds, really). I was replaying last nights ep and I remembered something that disturbed me about Sam but ya know the alley scene put that in the back of my mind. Before that scene, Sam decapitated the vamp he was following with one swing. One swing, with a machete. I mean wow, that's seems kinda amazing, even for a Winchester. Sure Dean took out a whole nest later, but he was a vamp with vamp strength. So how did Sam do it?

A theory came to mind. Does anyone remember Cas saying to Dean in Season 4 that Sam would consume enough demon blood that Sam would be a monster, something that Dean would want to hunt? But that didn't happen. Why? Because god stepped in and took the blood cravings away. But what if that hadn't happened? Sam's eyes turned black when he killed Lilith. Could he have come back from that on his own?

When Sam let Lucifer in, he consumed more demon blood than ever before. "Gallons" as Cas indicated. I think when Sam got brought back this time, there was no instant fix in regards to the demon blood. After consuming that much blood, it changed Sam in some permanent ways. Even though Sam said over and over that the choices he made were his, I think that the blood affected him mentally as well as physically. Made him colder, harder. It also makes him stronger, more focused.

So, yeah, that's my shower theory on Sam. ;-)
# magichappening 2010-10-23 13:56
OK following on from Jeannine's shower theory (!) I just rewatched the episode and had a couple of new theories.

It could be the demon blood. It could indeed. The 'residue' that another commenter mentioned above. Either way I agree that Jeanine's point about the excessive strength Sammy displayed could be related to this.

But if it is not the blood or residue, what has him 'turbo-charged' ? And did he do it voluntarily or was it done to him? And if he did it voluntarily then why?

On re-watch I noticed the question Sam asks Dean just after he was turned 'How does it feel? Physically'. That is an odd question. Why does he want to know this? Two theories:

1. Sam never asked to be a monster. Now Dean has become one. Is this a form of revenge in Sam's eyes? To allow Dean to walk in his shoes? But the way it happened was not accidental - Sam allowed it to happen to his brother. That's the glass half empty theory because I do not want to believe that Sammy is that far gone.

2. Glass half full theory of sorts: Whatever was done to Sam has made him a scarily good hunter. And he wants that for Dean too. So that Dean can have an edge as well and they can take apart the supernatural world together.

A betrayal this deep, there has to be reason. But what reason could be enough?
# Daisymae 2010-10-23 14:02
CitizenKane2 Perhaps the Alphas are part of the nukes from heaven that has gone missing

Good theory. I like it. I also think this has to do with Sam's soul, but also that he may not know exactly what's happening himself. PTSD is out b/c it has to be a supernatural explanation.

About bring back the sweet Sammy of 1 & 2 seasons-I don't think he exists anymore. He grew up and became a man not a boy. Maybe Sam is actually not so sweet and kind afterall. Has anyone noticed that the only time this season that Dean called Sam, Sammy was at the end of this episode? And that was sarcastic.

I also yelled at the TV when Sam just stood there. There's a lot of that going around.
# LisaD 2010-10-23 14:25
1st Theory:I think that the rolls are somewhat reversed between Sam and Dean. However, I think that even though some theorist may not agree, I think Lucifer still has a hold of Sam. Just like in the Bible, Lucifer will be the Anti-Christ, and right now he is sitting dormant in someones body ready to take over. I think that is the case with Sam. He's lying semi-dormant in Sam, waiting for the right moment to come to life....take over and kill Dean. I believe what they said in the latest episode. They are not finished, more is to come. When he comes out, he will fight not only Dean and the hunters, but against Sam as well. The reason no one can see him is because that is just it, Lucifer is sly. He has been all along. And like once said, Sam doesnt flinch to the torture of a child, nor anything else because....well ....because Lucifer wouldnt. However, with the Angels and God on their side....Dean and Sam...will prevail in the end.

2nd Theory: Its not Lucifer....its Michael. Remember...Mich ael fell in that pit as well. He fought Lucifer...won, and inhabited Sams body only to resurface and now he's just waiting for the right moment to inhabit Dean. Even though they are Angels, they still posses no feelings. However, if he wanted to inhabit Deans body, he probably wouldnt have let Dean get bit by the Vampire. That is my second theory. I know that ONE of them has to be the right one.
# Sinkerlips 2010-10-23 14:37
Remember what Donny Finnerman looked like when Raphael left his body? Remember what Cas said to Dean about how Michael would leave him? I think something similar has happened to Sam, but the best revenge that Lucifer could have would NOT be to leave him a drooling mess, but to leave him an emotional shell, devoid of feeling or empathy, and utterly soulless. Making Sam an emotional cripple...a virtual stranger to all those that know him, would be Lucifers best revenge.
# Veen 2010-10-23 14:45
I don't think Sam is irrevocably gone. I do believe the Sam from before that we all (or I do) love can come back, he just might be different: older, wiser and perhaps not as sensitive; but still basically the good guy he was before. I have enough faith in the writers and Sera that they will not do that to Sam or to the fans.

I'm with everyone else who think he's soulless right now. Because no way in hell (pun intended ;-) would the Sam we love smirk and stand by and watch while the older brother he idolizes is turned into a vamp.

It will be interesting to watch the season play out and by the end, or sooner hopefully, Sam will be the Sam we know and love.
# faye 2010-10-23 15:08
wow, a lot of theories going around!

The one thing I want to say is, I don't believe Sam is irredeemable, nor is that the writers' intentions. I actually thought this latest episode was extraordinarily well written.

I originally thought that Sam's soul was MIA, but I'm not so sure now that we should throw the PSTD theory out the window. I think Sam thought he had all his ducks in a row, until Dean came back. Remember Sam was the one who didn't want Dean back hunting, and convinced both Bobby and Samuel to his point of view. Bobby at least should have twigged to Something Very Wrong with Sam at some point, but he didn't. Only Dean noticed. Why? Well who knows Sam better than Dean, and vice versa? So the others not noticing is a sign that his behaviour before was not really out of line with what they would expect after he had gone through. I'm really going out on a limb here and expecting that Bobby at least would know something wasn't right, even though he couldn't (wouldn't) see that Dean was miserable for a whole year.

I think now Sam is operating on a purely intellectual level, and his smirk last night is a reflex of his intellectual curiosity (he knew there was a cure, but he wanted to see how Dean would react, how Dean felt, how would he cope, what would he do? oh yeah, and he wants the intel, though we don't know why) He forgets how he is supposed to act and feel. And I think, intellectually, he knew Dean could and would resist feeding on innocent people and keep his focus on the job (and let's face it, he was right. Dean was more than capable of getting the job done, apparently to Grampa's surprise). What he was lacking was an emotional response to his brother in danger (remember at that point we didn't know there was a cure either).

Sam has always let intellect serve him first, from season one. He has also been sensitive and compassionate and caring, don't get me wrong, but back then he could see the point in kindness and caring, and it was based on the thoughtful consideration of an educated young man. We should remember that Sam has been struggling with (demonically triggered) rage his whole life. That was his strongest emotion, and he fought it with his intelligence.

I think the little logical world Sam has constructed is about to fall apart, largely because Dean is back in his life, and when it does, our hearts will break for him.
Mardem Jr.
# Mardem Jr. 2010-10-23 15:10
One of my theories is that, because Sam and Luci are "Made for Each Other", perhaps having Luci inside him and combined with all the demon blood he drank (which derives from Luci, since he made them), Sam and Luci have kind of 'blended', as though theirs 'essences' are now only one.

I really hope they give us an explanation soon, because I'm freaking out over fictional characters!
Dawn N
# Dawn N 2010-10-23 15:28
Well, the working theory I have tweeted about for a couple weeks or so is that I think Sam came back without his soul. Maybe, whoever/whateve r got him out couldn't get him all out. After all, Sam went into the pit whole. He didn't die on earth and his soul go into the cage like Dean died in S4 and went to Hell. So, maybe there was a big FUBAR and his soul is still in the cage.

I am in agreement that he IS NOT Samifer ... I too, believe TPTB and think that story line will be staying in the pit locked in the cage. Also, don't think he sold his soul to get out. He seemed commited to staying inside, so doubt he sold it.

Now, that promo scene of Sam doing that jump over the fence ... he's tall but that was more than being tall, so ... my wheels have been turning and I think the mass amounts of demon blood he drank in order to contain Lucifer may have changed him pysically, perhaps, we'll see. But, I am sticking to my working theory of a good couple plus weeks that Sam does not have his soul. It seems the lights are on but Sammy isn't home, nor is his humanity.

Now, my mind is turning around the idea, if his soul is still in the pit, what will have to be done to get it back, what is involved in being resouled, and oh, geez will the torment his soul has continued to suffer (if still in the cage) be brought back into Sam when the soul is returned? Talk about going over the cuckoo nest, Dean will have his hands full.

I just think that this season has been awesome so far and I can't wait to see the ride we're taken on. :D
# elsiemambo 2010-10-23 15:38
That scene of Sam watching Dean get turned was amazing! The look on Sam’s face! The smirk! Marvelous acting by JP this season, he’s doing great this year with making Sam a soulless (yes soulless) thing (yes thing, he’s just not human). There is no concern in his actions of facial expressions. His “I’m sorry” comment after Dean tried to reach Lisa at the end of the episode was SO FAKE a child could tell he really didn’t care.

Contrary to some of the things said above I am enjoying this change in Sam, not forever though!! Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that I like this version of Sam it’s just that it is being done so well by the all those involved that it is AWESOME television!!

Sam has to get fixed somehow and soon, and I have faith that will happen. In the meantime I’ll just settle back and watch JPs excellent acting and continue to scream at the TV, “DO SOMETHING SAM, DON’T JUST STAND THERE” or “LIAR” :-)
# Aaricia 2010-10-23 15:49
Yes, i think it can be something like this : there is someone (something?) who let Sam go back to earth, in exchange for the alphas, and keeping his soul to be certain he'll do it.
# Anglib78 2010-10-23 16:16
I've been wondering about Sam since episode 1. Well, really since the very last scene of the end of last season. First I was horrified that he just beheaded that guy without being totally sure he was a vampire. Then I was beside myself when he stood by and let Dean be turned. Finally, I couldn't help noticing that even though he is acting somewhat out of character, he's still a terrible and obvious liar. I kept waiting for Dean to rip him a new one. I originally thought it wasn't really Sam or Samuel, their grandfather. Now I am not sure. The souless idea isn't a terrible one, but I do think Sam feels bad when he's called out. So the question is, what is driving him so fiercely? Ultimately, everything he's been through would have a devestating impact. A lesser person would be destroyed completely. I don't think Sam is unredeemable but right now I just really want some answers. Btw, I was hoping Dean wouldn't tell Sam what he saw, just to spite him. :mrgreen:
# lilly 2010-10-23 17:30
After the first episode I honestly thought it was some kind of mutant shapeshiter posing as Sam.

But I don't see how any supernatural being would pose as him for a year just to go out hunting, they must have some kind of agenda on their own. I don't think Lucifer would do that either... besides they can't leave out a main character for that long..

So it looks like it is Sam, traumatized by hell, lacking a soul or pumped up on demon blood. Hell was definitly traumatizing for him, but I think there is more to it
Remember the flickering lamp post at the end of season five, surely that must mean there's something going on besides PTSD? Right?

the only thing that dosen't make sense is the creature/lucife r/demon theory.
All I hope for is a supernatural explanation and that they sort it out soon, I don't know how much more soulless!sam I can handle.
# Ardeospina 2010-10-23 17:43
Wow, there are some really great theories being bandied about here! Thanks to everyone for commenting. This has turned into a wonderful discussion.

A few people have mentioned Adam here, and I really hope someone mentions him soon because honestly, it's driving me a little nuts that no one has so much as said his name. Doesn't anyone on the show want to know what happened to him? Sam came back, somehow, but what about Adam? I need to know!!
# nancyL 2010-10-23 18:13
At first, I thought that Lucifer was still residing in Sam, but now you all have convinced me that the problem is the lack of a soul within Sam. Sam of 'Exile..' was cold but the Sam of 'Live free..', was just cold-blooded.

Evelyn, you bring up a good point. The Sam of 'Faith' would never have stood there and watched a vampire (or any monster) touch his brother in a threatening way.

The Sam at the end of 'Mystery Spot', if he had, thru the magic of time travel, been bought to that time and space and seen Present!Sam just standing there, he would have first taken care of the vamp and then taken care of P!Sam. (then hugged Dean very tight :D)

Yirabah, I am not ashamed to agree with you and say that when Grandpa questioned Sam, I was second guessing my opinion of him. Maybe he isn't as bad as we were first led to think.

AndreaW, when I saw Sam first arrive at the alley, I thought 'Sam is here, Dean will be ok', but that was not the case. Then, the only thing that went thru my mind was 'Sam WTF' :o

Magichappening, when Sam said 'a deal's a deal', it seemed kind of strange to me. Maybe that is how he got out of Hell, he left his soul there as a marker.

Ardeospina, I think Adam was returned to Heaven in exchange for Grandpa. Adam was the plan B to Dean's plan A. Grandpa is plan B to Sam's plan A.

Hopefully some of our questions will be answered next week, and Sera & Co. will not keep torturing us with Not!Sam.
# sammy 2010-10-23 19:31
okay, in my opinion, sam is lucifer. you see, lucifer is an ANGEL notttttt a demon. when he saved dean and dean first saw sam, sam did DEMON tests. lucifer was never ever a demon. also, he WATCHED his brother get turned. purposly. and, the only thing that can bring back someone from the dead, is an angel or god, and samuel came back right when "sam" did. and also, isn't it kinda a "coinsidence" that sam came back right after he trapped micheal in the pit? and that ever since he got back, all the supernatural things in the world are completly different? like the genies blending in with humans, and the vampires not killing people anymore? i think it all makes a lotttt of sense.
Dawn N
# Dawn N 2010-10-23 19:49
Okay, watched the promo again because that jump Sam makes has been bothering me, so just add this response onto my previous one a few posts up :mrgreen: Both his legs weren't even like he did the leap as a unit, he had a trailing leg, so I slowed the scene down and it looks like he jumping onto and off of something near the fence ... like a stump, rock or something not sure.

So, maybe no super Sam, don't know for sure. Still looking forward to this episode, is it Friday yet? Also, glad we'll see Cas again, his facial expression when Dean asks "What's wrong with him" it sort of looks like he may know but his look could just be, "I'm sorry Dean I don't have any answers," I guess we'll find out. But, I'm hoping that he has some news, even if just a little. :D
# elle2 2010-10-23 20:26
Hi, Arde,

Thanks for putting up this idea and bringing out not only your thoughts but so many others as well. I started reading through it but have to stop as I am about to be interrupted. I'll finish reading this later, however, I did want to post my thoughts. (Just sent my article on Episode 5 to Alice and Jenna so now I can go through the site).

I have no idea where this is going. Further, I've learned in the past not to try to figure it out as well as not to try to judge the storyline until all has been revealed. Still, this is a puzzle that is kinda begging to be puzzled over.

I for one am with you, the PTSD is out the window for me. Admittedly I'm okay with that. We had Dean with PTSD and it's a bit of a disservice to send Sam down the same emotional trail. Not to mention Sam had most of Season 5 as PTSD for his actions in Season 4 so I'd like to see a bit more originality and thus far it appears I'm getting that wish.

I don't know where the writers are going here. I have faith because Sera said in interviews prior to the shooting even beginning that Sam's story would remain a mystery for several episodes (and while six is several so is nine or ten...still, I hope to see some pieces of the Sam puzzle appear in context next week.) The fact that she thought it that far in advance (as I know they do) gives me hope that she knows that she's set the bar high and best clear it easily.

I do kinda like the idea of Sam having lost his soul. That was a pretty big morsel dropped in The Third Man for there not to be some follow up and it would fit nicely. Sam selling his soul doesn't fit so well since the canon on that (as mentioned in this thread above by someone far more brilliant than I, I'm simply climbing on their shoulders a bit here) via John and Dean and Bobby (as well as all those in Cross Road Blues) is that those people still remained essentially themselves.

However, if Sam's soul was ripped from him...well, there's that. I have no idea.

I think perhaps that's why last night's episode left me so flat, so dissatisfied, in prior episode there were peeks into Sam still being there whereas last night he was devoid of anything essentially Sammy. At this point he's a blank slate that is incredibly boring.

Now as for Jared...he's doing excellent work. I know some are panning him saying that he's a poor actor here and he can do better but isn't even trying. I don't think so. I think he is intentionally 'blanking' Sam out for purposes of the story and that that is not an easy thing to do after five years of developing a character.

That was a bunny trail, I know, sorry about that.

So, no idea what/who/where/ why/how Sam is. Sera and company have set themselves a very large bar here, in the past they have been able to hurdle it easily. I hold onto hope and faith that they will do so again. I know I just repeated myself with that but saying it twice makes it more likely to happen, right, right?

# Evelyn 2010-10-23 20:51
Just adding a thought to elle2's comments about Jared and Jensen's acting this season so far. I think they are both doing an excellent job so far this season. And I remember reading or hearing on some vids from a Con or ComicCon that they did say that they thought since this is Season 6, with knowing their characters as well as they do, that this would be an easier year for them than others, but that this has turned out to be harder than they expected. So, I would suspect that it is harder for them this year because of the drastic changes that exist now with their characters, especially Sam. Sam is the opposite of what we know him to be and I think Jared is doing an excellent job with him, especially given the amount of discussion that is taking place with how different his character is. If he weren't doing such a great job, I don't think we would be discussing it as much. There would be some discussion, but Jared is really hitting it out of the ballpark so far this season. So kudos to Jared and Jensen for their wonderful acting abilities and the way in which they are interpreting their characters so far this year.

As to the direction this show is going, who knows. It has been an interesting ride so far, and I agree again elle2, Sera and company have definitely set the bar high so far this year, they have delivered in the past, and I have confidence and faith in them that they will again deliver satisfactory explanations and answers to the myriad of questions that beset us currently. Although they better answer some of these questions real soon (like the next episode) or else they may have a fan revolt on their hands.
# BagginsDVM 2010-10-23 20:53
It's going to drive me crazy waiting for the season to play out & for us to get some answers. Hopefully next week will give us some clues. I think Sam is missing at least part of his soul, but maybe not all. Castiel probably would have noticed if it was completely gone, plus we have seen glimpses of the old Sammy a few times this season. The horcrux idea has me intrigued. Sam has to be redeemable yet; I can't imagine the show leaving him to be this horrid creature that he is at the moment. Sam doesn't deserve that, & neither does Dean, & neither do we after having invested so much in these characters for more than 5 years now!
# Yvonne 2010-10-23 21:23
Ok, so now that I’m past the initial emotional upheaval this episode caused, I can think. Sorta.

And I think this episode was amazingly good. Fanfreakintasti c?? I watched again and the subtleties played by both Jensen and Jared-just wow. Those two guys are good at what they do.

Still have no idea what I believe about Sam, except that how he’s acting isn’t Sammy, the re-watch let me see some things missed on the first time through. While Sam was acting like a cold hearted ass, there was a moment or two I believed he was genuinely concerned for Dean. When he saw Dean had gone out the window, when he thought Dean may have taken blood, and when Samuel started toward Dean after he told Samuel to get on with it. (Sam seemed to tense a bit in an “aren’t you going to tell him?” way) Couple other times as well, though I’m not as sure of those since it could purely be related to Sam wanting the info from the nest; such as when he volunteered to walk into the nest with Dean. It also broke my heart to see Dean getting the very little support and empathy he received, from Samuel. It should have been Sam there to wish him luck, welcome him back and ect. You could almost see Dean reaching out for that familiar and steadying base that is (was) his relationship with Sam. Gone though.

So what does all that add up to? Man I want to know! I think it’s Sam, in some way shape or form. Not Samifer, not some monster, but somehow Sam. Maybe Sam mixed in with something else, or only a part of Sam walking around. But whatever is going on, he knows he is supposed to be acting differently. This deliberate pretense he’s putting on is just a cover up for what/who he is now. Despite the unbelievable cruelty in his watching his brother get turned (and it pleasing him), he knew the cure and deliberately scaled back in his fighting Boris to allow him to escape.

Whatever this is, it’s the worst of Sam yet. Even if, in the middle of their fight in “When the Levee Breaks”, some monster had been idiotic enough to walk in and tackle Dean; I believe Sam would have fought on his brothers side, killed the monster and then returned to the sibling fisticuffs. Much how Lucifer got pissed over Cas Molotoving Michael. There was always a moral struggle within himself, he’d reason his way, find excuses…whate ver. Now though, it’s all rational, all hunter. All Not!Sam. Or almost all, still think I see those tiny flashes of our boy.

Wow, this is turning long! Guess I needed to vent.

Couple other random things about the episode.
• I’m mad that Bobby wasn’t called! Dean was turned, good chance of his dying and his surrogate father was left out of the loop! WTH??!
• The opener made me distinctly uncomfortable. The vampire culture has not been something I’m overly fond of and to see it creep onto my show made me ache for the opening to be over- even while I recognized and laughed over the spoofing. “I can make my own decisions. I’m seventeen.” Brilliant. Freakin hilarious.
• Still think Grandpa Campbell has an agenda I don’t wanna trust, but his distress over Sam’s actions has me thinking that maybe his agenda can be reconciled.
• Got a theory that somehow, before the apocalypse, there was some sort of control and rules enforced on the monster world. Whether by heaven or hell, I don’t know. Now post-apocalypse , and the safeguards that were in place are no longer around. Could be why “they” no longer fear hunters. The hunters no longer have something bigger backing them up if things got out of control. Or maybe the Alpha’s were caged…something
• Vampire Dean is bad ass and HAWT! And I wanted to smack Grandpa Campbell. He’s all Winchester man. Screw the Campbell line! (no offense meant to Mary)

All in all, great episode. I’m really looking forward to this weird, awful Sam thing getting resolved so I can go back and watch this knowing the truth and ending. Think it could turn into one of my all time favorites.
# AndreaW 2010-10-23 21:29
All I have to say regarding the direction the show is going is: trust Sera. She knows what she's doing. I'm sure it'll pay off in the end.

As for Jared's acting, I read many reviewers (including respected ones like Mary Bardic and Mo Ryan)praise the way he's managing to play a Sam who is familiar and unfamiliar at the same time. Personally, I think he's doing a wonderful job. Like a commenter said above, he's been keeping fans intrigued which wouldn't happen if he was just a poor actor.
# Cassie 2010-10-23 23:07

In the episode the third man, Dean did the angel sigle(sp) on the wall with Sam standing next to him when they were at Bathelzar's place. The other angels went away but Sam stayed put. Hence, he can't still be Lucifer.
# stln6 2010-10-23 23:20
I almost died when Sam smirked like that. Kay, here's what I think. When they found out angels were buying souls now as well as demons, we got a reaction shot from Sam. He looked cagey, like it wasn't anything new to him. Also, the show has made an allusion to the reason angels are dealing in souls is because there's a new power struggle afoot and souls are powerful things. And really, who's soul would be more powerful than Lucifer's vessel?

I also go to thinking about what Sam could have sold his soul for and WHO he could have sold it to. There's the possibility of an outside angel, but maybe even Lucifer or Michael. As for the price, I really don't think he would have done it just to escape the Cage, no matter how bad it was, Sam died to save the world and his brother, I don't think he (or the show) would erase that sacrifice that easily.

One thing that's been bugging me since last season that was never answered makes me think of a reason Sam would have sold his soul. When the boys went to heaven, they found out that a few souls they knew were MIA. Ellen, Jo, John and Mary, and Jess I believe. The possibility that Sam was offered these souls, probably as well as his brother's when he died, would be enough of a reason for Sam to be like, 'okay, take my soul just let the people I love be okay'.

That's what I'm working with anyway. Thoughts?
# trina 2010-10-23 23:39
This is killing me. The idea that after everything this character went through, even being taken over by Lucifer and trapped in hell doesn't appear to be rock bottom. The redemption that he earned last season is gone.

I refuse to believe that this is Sam, or at least that it is all of Sam. I am leaning toward the "no soul" theory, and I think it was taken from him against his will. We have seen nothing from Sam's POV at all, because I don't think he really has one at the moment. We have seen no emotional reaction from him about anything. The writers are hiding something big, and I only can hope that the payoff is worth it.

I am slightly hopeful that we are on the upswing here though. Dean knows what Sam did, and assuming he is going to stay hunting with Sam there have to be some answers coming.
# Karen 2010-10-24 01:30
This show is going to be the death of me.
What’s up with Sam? I haven’t a clue. All I know that is not our Sammy!
My initial reaction was he had to be possessed, either by Lucifer or a demon or another entity. Something, anything to explain his actions.
But now, after reading all the other possibilities, I don’t know.
In the alley Sam’s first initial reaction was to run to help Dean, but then he stopped. One minute he’s looking genuinely concerned and then grossly fascinated/capt ivated and then back to being concerned.
It looked like he was constantly fighting with himself, not sure how he should act or feel, like a conflicted personality.
When Samuel first mentioned there was a cure, Sam looked genuinely as surprised as Dean. However when Samuel confronted Sam about knowing about the cure he didn’t seemed as sincere, he wasn’t as convincing.
I don’t know if it’s the effects of the demon blood or he’s soulless or partly soulless or is possessed or is locked in some kind of deal. All I know is I want it resolved and with a plausible and redeemable explanation.
# Goddessmomwith4 2010-10-24 02:24
Wow, what a discussion. I agree with the deal with Crowley thing and that the angels are may have something to do with the alphas. But what if Crowley is behind the alpha vamp army, he has spoken of turning on his demon minions, perhaps he needs his own army to really win the underworld, or even Raphaels army?
I also agree these guys are at the top of their game. The writers will not lose me as a fan, and Sera was smart to put the awesome pull up scene of Sam. That was the sweet frosting before the bitter bite of cake this week. This season is nail biting to say the least!!
# Jasminka 2010-10-24 03:38
At this point Sam deserves a damn good thrashing. No psychological disturbance is an excuse for bad manners - or for allowing your brother being turned into a vampire for that matter.

Since he is not psychotic, obviously, he's is fully aware of what he is doing and I'm gonna need a really good explanation from the writers why Sam's character changed this much.

I still believe that Sam is suffering from an extreme form of PTSD. When a person experiences terrible horrors over a long period of time, their personality can change, as I have written about in earlier articles. So – what happened to Sam in hell? In Lucifer’s cage? Plus: we have been told that to ingest the amount of blood Sam needed to keep Lucifer contained would change him forever.

In my line of work I have seen these phenomenons several times, so I think PTSD is an issue, still. But there is more to it. At this point I can't imagine an explanation that would satisfy my shrink's mind, sorry. But I trust the writers, still. Alas, it's painful to watch and it's painful to experience how hard it is to love Sam these days.

I think, though, that Jared is having the time of his life playing this Sam. And- If anyone says the acting of the two guys is lacking - come on, It's obvious that they watch another show.

Still cringing, Jas
Eva aka pinkfox
# Eva aka pinkfox 2010-10-24 04:37
I just hope we are going to get some answers and soon... In some parts of fandom I have already seen too many people completely burn Sam down, till there is left less then when Anna went up in smoke...
# Jasminka 2010-10-24 04:40
Really, Eva? I can't believe this! How is that possible?
# Julie 2010-10-24 05:01
I love this show so much. Boy how clever are the writers/produce rs or whoever comes up with the sroylines in it. One small smile can create his much mayhem, it left me literally speechless and has prompted such fevered speculations and discussions and so it should.
I have long since given up trying to second guess what will happen here as I am never right, but I have thought since EOMS this is not Sam and after this one it just cant be !! It has been heartbreaking to watch this show in the past but the scene in that alley I think shocked me more than any other in all 109 episodes.
Everyone is right, Sam does need that `Damn good thrashing` and I think he will get it next weekend ,wont we all be cheering Dean on, and I would be more than willing to help him do this. But I also think Dean will not give up on him and will find the real Sam again wherever he is ,I know he will be damaged and changed by his experiences and the consumption of the demon blood but this incarnation is just too wrong.
Trying to remember --
These are fictional charaters
These are fictional characters!!
# Luna 2010-10-24 05:04
Hi everyone!
Wow. Just... wow. So many great theories here. I didn't like the episode first, because it was too much of a shock for me, and really broke my heart. I was kinda relieved when I found this discussion, because before that I only found opinions like "what was this sh*t?" or "that was the last episode I ever watched!" "this is terrible, they should have stopped after season 5!"
So it's nice to read that a lot of people think differently.
I have no idea which theory could be the right one. I somewhat believe, that the writers are going to come up with something I've never thought of, because that's what usually happens.
This Sammy-being-sou lless thing is interesting, but I don't know... I could imagine that he sold it to an angel, but I don't think he made a deal to escape from hell, because in that scene with Cas not knowing who brought him back, for me, he seemed truly disappointed. If he'd made a deal, he wouldn't have been like that - unless he had lost his memories. Because, as I saw, he's still a terrible liar.
He could sell his soul to an angel though, but that wouldn't mean that he's soulless. There was that boy, whose soul Balthazar had bought, but he still had it in place, there was just a mark over it. The only way it could explain this cold and not-caring behaviour, is that he sold his soul for something that made him a better, "soulless" (but not necessarily literally) hunter, some stuff from heaven, that could change him this way.
The most acceptable theory for me is that the demon blood changed him this much. And under acceptable, I mean, that it would be quite logical, but I don't want it to be true, because it's too simple, and I don't know if there's a going back from that.

Thanks for sharing this great ideas, you actually made me think about it a lot, and now I think this episode was good - though for me the solution came too quickly, and changing back a vampire is not something I like the idea of. I just can't believe it.

I like the actors very much, so I think they're doing a great job every week.
Bettina K.
# Bettina K. 2010-10-24 05:53
all those comments made me think....
... how about Sam's personality split? PTSD, demon blood and Lucifer inside, that's one unhealthy combination.
And those missing souls are really bugging me. And what happened to Adam and Michael? There are still many episodes left...
# AndreaW 2010-10-24 10:31
Wow! Sam's smile is currently more famous than Monalisas's, at least in the Supernatural fandom. Now he is in the spotlight, and I have often complained in the past that the character was underused.

Unfortunatly, this not for the right reasons. After his sacrifice in Swan Song, he should be a hero. Instead, he's been written as a villain. I'm not suprised that part of the fandom is burning him down. Even the Samgirls are having doubts.

This state of things is disturbing but I keep thinking about Season 6 advertisement: nothing is what it seems and there will be a lot of twists. I have a feeling that they (writers) have something huge prepared, something that will surprise everyone. So until there I keep faith. It was revealed in interviews that things will be bad between the brothers before getting fixed. And if things are going to be good again there should be an explanation, one that is good enough for Dean to accept.
Anna W
# Anna W 2010-10-24 10:48
I am so surprised that no one has been able to figure this out yet and if I'm right I applaud Jared for his brilliant performance so far this season.

Sam is not Sam. He has not lost his soul or part of his soul or does not have PTSD. The clues have all been laid out before us you just need to put them together.

Look at his mannerisms. How he used a hooker, how he mocked Cas, how he observes people, his cold behavior, how he watched that kid being tortured, how he watched Dean getting turned with a SMIRK on his face. Who would do these things? Think about it. WHO?

Who would want to keep Dean and Bobby as far away from him to hide the fact that he is not Sam. That is why Grandpa was brought back. Because he needed other hunters to help him but be able to keep up his disguise. He needs to build an army so he can fight Raphael. So he can keep the world the way it is. Also who is powerful enough to even bring him back?

Who has the ability to draw out all these monsters to begin with? Think about it. Someone who's dealt with them before.

Why did Sam say to Crowley "A Deal's a deal?" Because Crowley's in on it. Crowley want's the world to stay as it is. He doesn't want Lucifer out of the box either.

Who could it be? Gabriel. Sam is Gabriel. The question now is whether he is he in Sam's meatsuit or is he merely pretending to be Sam.

Fandom wanted Gabriel back, well they got him. Careful what you wish for.
# DuttyDawn 2010-10-24 11:19
I don't think that after the sacrifice that Sam made to save the world, that he would just sell his soul so he could get out of hell. These Winchester boys should have learned that lesson by now. Sam's still in there, which is apparent since he called Cas when he got out of the Pitt looking for a reason. He also seemed pretty frightened at the thought of the angels trying to start the Apocalypse. I'm looking forward to seeing where the show is taking this is just why Sam needs to do whatever he can to find the Alphas. Also, who is grandpa Campbell working for? It was mention a few episodes back and is still hanging out there. Curiouser and curiouser.
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-24 11:41
Anna W, interesting theory (Sam = Gabriel) :-) At this point, I'm not ruling anything out.
# magichappening 2010-10-24 12:00
"Trying to remember --
These are fictional charaters
These are fictional characters!!"


I also agree with Yvonne that on rewatching you pick up so many subtleties that you miss on the first watching. Now that's quality programming.

Think RisenShine makes a good point that Castiel would have noticed if something had been done to Sam's soul. Hmmm. Perhaps he has and has not said anything for reasons of his own? Perhaps in comparison to having to sort out Heaven and track down 'loose nukes' this is not a priority? He did say that he showed up in The Third Man for the Staff of Moses rather than for Dean - although he did then say that he had a stronger bond with Dean and you would want to think he would warn his friend if something was wrong with Sam. The more I think of it I don't think Castiel can be completely unaware. Unless it is an oversight on the part of the writers? Tis all very confusing.

And I think the point that Yvonne makes about Bobby not having been called is a really interesting one, coming after the events of last week. Did the boys think of calling him and then decide not to bother him?

Oh dear I keep forgetting about poor Adam. I did remember, I swear, when someone mentioned it further up the thread. But then I was overwhelmed again by the whole alley-Sam-stand ing-by situation. But how did Sam get out if Adam did not? Were they aware of each other in the cage? Or is Adam out too?

OK. Let’s think about this. The Alphas are suddenly key chess pieces and Sam is mysteriously free from Hell. And Sam is hunting them. I had thought it was because Grampa was hunting them, but maybe it was the other way round. Maybe Sam is the ‘man with the plan’. But why? He must need them for something.

And why on earth is Samuel back? What has he got to do with anyone? Samuel hid the last shapeshifter from both of the brothers. Not just Dean, but from Sam too. And he was on the phone to someone. Do Sam and Samuel both want the Alphas but for different reasons? Plans within plans….Is Samuel using Sam while pretending to play along? Is it Crowley who he is working for?

I think it is an interesting point a few commenters have made that the Alphas are linked to Heaven. I made the opposite assumption…Cr owley is the new king of Hell and is trying out a ‘new system’. Demons have not played a part this season, but Alphas have. Crowley is sick of demons. So are the Alphas the new system? In which case, is Sam’s deal or whatever linked to Crowley in some way?

But trina’s point about the redemption Sam earned last season being overturned feels really worryingly right. Sam clawed his way back from the brink in the eyes of Dean (and all the fandom), Did he just throw that away? It took so long to come back from the addiction and the lying after Dean got back from Hell. And then when he realised that Ruby had played him, Sam was horrified and was determined to make amends and he resisted all of Lucifer’s promises and tricks and in the end gave his life and I loved and respected him for it. He came such a long way and had grown so much. He made the decision that needed to be made and even had the unbelievable strength of mind and character to be able to breakthrough Lucifer’s hold on him (with a little help from the Impala) and now? Now when his brother is ‘dying’ he smiles. Just like Lucifer smiled in The End, when Sam had become his vessel. *Shiver*

And Dean’s face at the end when Sam agreed that Dean could always count on him was beyond heartbreaking. With Lisa and Ben possibly slipping away from him, Sam is the only thing Dean has once more, and the depth of sadness on his face when he looked at Sam with the knowledge of Sam’s betrayal, was devastating.

Please let it get a little better next week. The truth will set you free, right? Right?
# Karen 2010-10-24 12:18
Good observation Anna W, I also thought of Gabriel(being a Gabriel/Trickst er fan). However there was a couple of things that had me doubting. Firstly I would thought Castiel would of noticed, as they seem to recognise their brother/sister no matter who they’re wearing. However if he is just imaging himself as Sam, maybe Cass wouldn’t of been able to tell.
The other was having him not keeping true to Sam’s personality. He knows Sam and Dean and how they were together, so by having Sam acting so coldly and differently he had to know Dean would start getting suspicious. Unless he doesn’t care if Dean finds out and is simply enjoying messing with his head. I guess I will have to rethink this one again. Believe me the idea that it could be Gabriel doesn’t disappoint me at all. However does this mean that Sam is still in the pit with Lucifer. :o
# Goddessmomwith4 2010-10-24 12:34
I could believe the Gabriel theory, but wouldn't he be eating some chocolate already if that was true?
Anna W
# Anna W 2010-10-24 12:54
To Karen -

I'm so glad that someone else had this churning around in their head!

Remember that Gabriel devised his own witness protection program and went undetected by the angels for how long? In Changing Channels Cas wasn't even really sure at first what the Trickster was so he obviously has a way to cloak himself from the angels.

As for your second comment, I believe that explains why he didn't tell Dean he was back, because he knew that Dean would easily figure out he wasn't Sam. I think he had no choice to see him when the Djinn got involved then when Gabriel realized what an asset he would be in gathering up the alphas he decided maybe it was worth the risk if he could have someone like Dean on his team. Knowing Gabriel, he probably thought that since so much time has passed and so much has happened that he can explain away the change in Sam.

And if this is what they are doing it does worry me where Sam is. Is he still in hell or is he hiding somewhere? Is Gabriel wearing Sam? There are still so many unanswered questions.

And to Goddessmomwith4 . It would be a dead give away if they had him eat chocolate. They want to keep it somewhat mysterious, they want to make it hard for the fans to figure out. Having him eat chocolate would just be way too obvious.
# Bevie 2010-10-24 13:56
I actually like the Gabriel theory. That smirk did resemble some of the Trickster's smirks after all.

Also, it would get Sam right off the hook he is on right now as the worst brother ever! I just don't believe I could ever forgive him if it is the real Sam. I do believe it is something the Trickster could actually pull off. :shock:

If this is the truth, then where is our poor Sammy right now? Maybe Gabe has him stashed away somewhere until he finishes his mission? :-?
# nancyL 2010-10-24 14:01
what do you mean, they are fictional characters? :D
Sam, Dean, Bobby, Rufus, Grandpa... are not real? :D
But I mourned John, Mary, Ellen, Jo...(not Ruby :lol:-).
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2010-10-24 16:19
74 responses in just over a day. Is that a record? It’s good to know there’s no apathy towards the show on here!

I'm a little calmer today but I'm also in very argumentative form so apologies in advance.

Um, I won’t be cheering the inevitable thrashing, no matter how deserved it is, sorry. ‘Let’s beat Sam into submission. Wippee’ What purpose would it serve? The thing is that, of all the possible explanations on here, many suggest permanent change. If the demon blood is the problem, then it will always be a problem. You can’t beat demon blood out of the system. Similarly, you can’t beat a soul back into a body.

The whole made a deal/soulless thing, from a logical point of view, also doesn’t ring true with me (course that's not to say it won't happen). If the Pit is different from hell/the rack, why would Sam be afforded the opportunity of an out? Sam is still Lucifer’s vessel so why would Lucifer give him a chance to get away? He knows the damage Sam did first time around so surely it would be better for him to keep Sam close. He’s still a demon blood tainted, Apocalypse starting, angel grand plan destroying, Lucifer vessel so why would the angels want to get him out?

Plus, why would Sam go through all the throwing himself into the pit only to then go looking for an out when he’s down there. He was pretty adamant that Dean shouldn't come for him for fear of what could happen so why would he then take a deal to free himself, and possibly something else?

I don’t think Sam is Gabriel, John, Michael, Lucifer, Jo or anyone else bar Sam, a genuinely fupped up Sam. Maybe he’s picking characteristics of others eg the Trickster and Dean and mimicking those? I feel this theory might involve the repetition of too many questions that we've already asked ie who got the physical body of Sam out of the Pit, why, where is it now etc etc and I think it would involve suspending belief a little too much (even for SPN!)

I also think, if Sam were not Sam, it would leave a huge number of fans feeling cheated by having Sam absent for so long. (This is like a freaking tongue twister!)

One of my biggest fears is that, as a result of this episode, Sam will now always need to work ten times as hard to earn a fraction of trust. No matter what he does, people will look at him differently. If Sam is having a bad PMS day, it’s not going to be just a bad day; it’s going to be ‘Is Sam turning again?’ If he doesn’t laugh at one of Dean’s jokes, will the assumption be ‘Is Sam really back?’ Will we ever be able to look at Sam without thinking of his actions in this episode again? More worryingly, will Dean?

In reference to BettinaK’s post about what about Adam.... Maybe Sam WAS offered a deal and he sold his soul but instead of a deal to get himself out, it was a deal to get Adam out and this (Sam getting out of the pit) was his reward for this second sacrifice? It may also tie up the Adam storyline?

I found myself (in the depths of depression after seeing the episode), rather cynically, hoping that either (a) Sam is a shapeshifter (and was from episode one) or (b) Dean is in some sort of Dallas-esque dream type thing because it was the only way I could see Sam coming out of it without having his character crucified.

But now I’m at a loss really.....

Ardeospina et all, thanks once again for giving us the opportunity to ponder (and vent) without being subjected to the ‘Burn forever in hell, Sam Winchester you brother bashing, traitorous bastard, buuurrrrnnnn’ crap that’s being thrown around elsewhere.
# AndreaW 2010-10-24 16:42
I've been reading some comments suggesting that maybe Sam's behavior is not dictated by supernatural causes, PTSD or whatever, but that evil is part of Sam as a person. While everyone is entitled to their opinions, I have to strongly disagree here. There is nothing to indicate that. Quite contrary. The demon Brady told Sam that he was becoming too soft for their purposes so they were forced to take measures to fix that. And that's when Jessica enters the story. Brady also said that Sam was a good, sincere friend. Not to mention that Sam has always been the sensitive, compassionate of the duo. No, Sam is inherently good. Whatever is happening with him must have another explanation. And I'm sure Sera wouldn't risk damaging her character forever if she didn't have something in her sleeve.
# Jasminka 2010-10-24 16:43
Enchanting Tim, I don't think the 'thrashing' is meant to beat Sam into submission, at least not from my point of view.
To my mind, he simply deserves a good slap for not stepping in to help his brother in that alley. Just as I would feel a tickle in my fingers to slap the man I thought dead standing in my door all of a sudden. I'd slap him only for the reason of having been put in misery, speaking from personal experience, well, sort-of. That was clearly triggered by that scene.
And I agree that beating anyone into submission wouldn't do.
Cheers, Jas
# Ardeospina 2010-10-24 16:50
I just want to pop in here and say, again, fascinating theories flying around here. I admit, I never even thought about Gabriel being Sam. At this point, anything's possible, really, but the thing holding me back from really believing this is that Gabriel was never cruel to people he didn't think deserved it. And he actually liked the Winchesters and wanted to help them in the end. So for him to come back and be like this? I don't know. We'll see!

Also, everyone, thanks for keeping this discussion so civilized! I know we have an amazing group of readers, but we all know how quickly things can get nasty in this fandom sometimes, so really good job. And yeah, it sucks that I have to say something like that, but still. This is an awesome discussion going on, and I'm really loving it.
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2010-10-24 18:40
Jasminka, I didn't mean submission as in well... submission but more like um, saying he was wrong and accepting the 'right way of thinking' (I'm making even less sense now.)

It's unfortunately quite common over here to use the expression to 'put some manners on them' as an excuse when you give someone a whack. Seriously, I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard students (after being caught for fighting) say 'I was just trying to knock some fupping sense into him, Miss'. That's more what I was thinking of when I said thrashed into submission, a type of shock therapy....
# Rae 2010-10-24 23:22
I heard a really good theory - what if lucifer and michael are inside sammy still fighting.. say sam escaped and they both just hitched a ride with him out of hell? It would make sense why sometimes his face lacks emotion - like an angel and sometimes he seems down right evil... I think it is a good theory
# Luna 2010-10-25 04:12
Rae, that's interesting, but I don't think that two so poweful angels could be in one body... I might be wrong, but I think that noone is stong enough to "survive" that in one piece.
# Supernarttu 2010-10-25 10:31
Hi folks.

Wow! This discussion is getting quite epic, esp. with all these theories about Sam. I applaud you dear sirs...err..dam es... err ladies? Yeah, you guys rock. :-)

I just read something fascinating in some other review which really, really captivated me. And decided to come share here my newest OMGAwesomesauce IdeaOfTheCentur y ;-)

Sam is shattered into different personalities. I find this explanation incredibly, multifascinating.

I can guarantee that Show won't go down that road (since I'm pretty sure the reason for Sams change is something supernatural) but the thought that they might, in some parallel universe, totally owns me. That would be so awesome and very, very out of the blue, since it's a very 'human' condition. And scary, and dangerous and quite quite angsty indeed.

I'm not meaning this isn't a terrible and dangerous condition (sorry, Jas for the lack of a better word), but put in to a fictional world, it could be intriguing. Kinda like the whole Angel/Angelus vibe but in SPN, with a bit of Lucifer in Sams head.

I dunno why I love the idea of Sam with a split personality but... intriguing.

Ok, time to stop this crazy babble, just adding my two cents and going back to lurkdom.
Anna W
# Anna W 2010-10-25 10:50
I have to say it is so refreshing coming here and seeing such nice civil discussions! This is fantastic!

Rae - That is an interesting theory, but I agree with Luna, I don't see how two powerful archangels could occupy one vessel. I don't think any human, even Sam, could possibly be strong enough to withstand the sheer power of those two beings. Not only that, but Sera has said that the whole Michael/Lucifer apocalypse storyline is over and bringing those two characters back to the surface would yet again unleash the apocalypse.

There are so many little things that keep making me think more and more that he's Gabriel. Little actions, like when Dean made mention to Sam this week in the bar that he couldn't remember the last time they had a beer together and Sam just looked away and changed the subject. And how Sam never says "Dean" anymore. I mean he always says "Dean" like 500 times during an episode and now... never. Then I thought about the whole scene with Sam working out. Everyone was so floored by the fact that Jared was shirtless that I think they didn't look at the reason why he was shirtless. I mean in all the years the show has been on we have never, ever seen Sam in any way be vain or care about his body at all, now all of a sudden he does? Reminds me of swap meat when Gary was inside Sam's body and he was looking at himself in the mirror flexing his muscles, proud of the fact he was in this new, hot body. Ya know? So many little things... They just don't add up to Sam. I am convinced he's not Sam and the smirk gave me my answer to who he was. That smirk was the dead give away.

Someone commented on how they didn't think it was Gabriel because he wasn't cruel to people who didn't deserve it. But don't forget he LOVED to mess with the boys. Remember Mystery Spot? How can we forget how many times he killed Dean and how he made Sam suffer for months watching Dean die over and over again then let Sam live for months afterwards without Dean. Gabriel thrives on screwing with the boys. He knew he could save Dean and he wanted to see what Dean would do and in the process he wanted to get the alpha. It is definitely the MO of the one and only Gabriel.

Anyway, I know I could be wrong and maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it's fun trying to figure it all out. It just seems to me that the writers have been giving us the clues and we have been so focused on being upset over the fact that Sam didn't tell Dean he was alive for a year and the fact that their relationship is such a mess that maybe we don't want to see that it's because it really isn't Sam? At first I was upset because I wanted it to be Sam. I love Sam to death and I want him back but now, honestly I would rather it not be Sam then have it be him acting like this. If he is Sam, I don't see how they can redeem his character and how his relationship with Dean can be saved, but I can see a better story down the road if he is Gabriel. Ya know?
# Bevie 2010-10-25 13:17
Anna W, I can't tell you how much I hope your theory is correct. To me, it makes all the sense that Sam is really Gabriel working his own agenda.

Gabe is perfectly capable and powerful enough to perform this deception, and all the strange little unSamlike personality changes would make perfect sense.

If so, it would be OK for Dean to beat the crap out of this phoney Sam. OK for us to be able to forgive the unforgiveable thing Sam did (or didn't if so) do. And I for one would love to have Trickster back alive.
# AndreaW 2010-10-25 13:30
The contrast between post-Hell Dean and post-Hell Sam is interesting, if you think about it. While Dean wanted desperately NOT TO FEEL anything (he said something of the sort in Family Remains), Sam on the other hand CAN'T FEEL anything. What do you think is worse?
# magichappening 2010-10-25 14:32
Love your last point AndreaW. Fascinating how different the brothers are, even in this.

I am not sure about the Gabriel theory to be honest. I still think Cas would have recognised something about Sam - I have to say I am leaning away from anything angel (Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer) related. Cas recognised Balthazar's mark fast enough on that child...

Supernattu, I think the split personality thing is brilliant! Thank you for bringing that to the table. It crossed my mind briefly (but then I got distracted by the constant reboot to ‘Sammmmmmy, noooooooo' that my mind is trapped in this week) when Samuel insisted he had told Sam about the cure and Sam insisted he had not. What if they were both right?

Or as you say, he is shattered (which ties in nicely with the title card) - and when he is having his out-of-body experiences (like possession, but not) is when he is in a stressful situation and the other personality (Doppelganger?) comes out to deal with it. Created to serve a protective purpose to prevent annihilation in the cage, allowed to remain because it gives him an edge hunting, it has grown and mutated to hollow him out of who he is... maybe there are certain mannerisms that are ‘tells’ when he flips (must go back and re-watch yet one more time - it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it *wink*)...


What if it was not another endogenous personality that was created, but another version of Sam from somewhere else that he 'let in' or it slipped in like a hitchhiker when Lucifer and Sam were spliced back apart. A version of Sam that has no scruples or compassion - like the Twin Peaks version of Supernatural...

OK. I just completely creeped myself out.

That would explain why he allowed Dean to be 'killed', something unforgiveable in our world.... but not why Sam is collecting Alphas and why he bothered to come back into Dean's life and save him from the shapeshifters at all...and why is Sam so interested in what Dean 'saw' it the visions he is interested in?

Hmmmm.....damn you Sera!
# elle2 2010-10-25 16:03
This is a great discussion and while I've only skimmed it and added a post...I have got a couple observations to add so I'm back.

Someone in the thread above indicated perhaps Sam has a split personality...t hat is very possible and fun (yes, I'm cruel) to contemplate. Notice that there are times when Sam is very much the Sam of seasons past, happy to pick on Dean, take a joke, take a brotherly banterish jab himself. Other times he stands by and lets kids be tortured and his brother be turned into a vampire.

Each of those scary times Sam has appeared fascinated by what was happening and extremely curious about what it was doing to the person. He was very curious about Dean's feelings as a vampire, how physically it felt and what he learned/experienced.

Also, I find it intriguing to watch Sam's attempts at lying. To Dean he is a terrible liar, so bad that Dean knows he's lying and we the fans know he's lying. At other times, such as when Samuel called him on the vampire cure, he lies with fairly believable results. I'm not sure Grandpa Campbell entirely bought what Sam told him but it was not the clumsy attempts at lying that we've seen Sam doing in years' past. Remember his 'lie' to Dean in Death Takes a Holiday about he had no idea how/why Alistair left...that was an obvious lie as were the lies in Two and a Half Men as well as again in Live Free or Twihard.

Sam has been showing himself to be two different characters and to me that is deliberate on the writers' and actor's part, why remains the mystery but I'm happily staying tuned.
# Yvonne 2010-10-25 18:34
Dammit Dany! Un-cloud that crystal ball! Answers are needed! No chocolate for you! (Just kidding, you like the dark stuff right?)

Thought I’d return (again) and weigh in on the GabrialasSam idea. Interesting theory AnnaW, and it took me completely by surprise. Hadn’t even considered it. But after thinking things over, it feels like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Just can’t make it fit. Here’s my reasons:

• I’m with some of the above commenter’s on believing that Cas would have noticed something. You have to remember that in Changing Channels, Cas didn’t really stand face to face with Gabriel till that scene in the motel. And by then it looked like Cas had figured it out (without even seeing his brother). And when they did go eye to eye, Gabe slapped tape over his mouth so Cas couldn’t talk. Cut to the scene in the warehouse and Cas knew immediately who it was, not just what, but who. And even though I doubt Gabe was trying to hide it at that moment, Lucifer knew who he was right away.

• Also in agreement with previous comments on how it doesn’t quite fit his personality. He has shown the ability to draw out some long term plans; his witness protection program, his messing with Sam for so long in Mystery Spot. But for the most part, he seems a instant gratification kind of guy. Fun loving. Note that in Mystery Spot, he told Sam how it had all gotten old months ago. Gabriel can have long term plans, but he seems to want to make them fun. Even with his smirk, he doesn’t seem to be enjoying himself. Why would we see him ALONE in a motel room, paying for sex when he could just create a couple babes out of thin air? Doesn’t fit.

• Not sure why Gabe would choose to look like Sam. Just why? If he wanted to hide his true identity from Dean and Bobby, why choose Sambody in the first place? And if he did need that meat suit in particular, why reveal himself to Bobby and Dean? With his powers, he didn’t have to. He could have taken care of the djinn with a snap of his fingers. The dose never would have affected him and everything would have stayed far away from Dean. Not to mention that he did go to Bobby to show Sam as being alive. The plan seems intensely convoluted if it’s so.

• Last reason is a purely personal one and probably why I thought so hard about it. While it is an amazing, deeply layered and well thought out plot idea, if it’s true I’m gonna be upset. It would mean that every moment we’ve seen “Sam” on screen for S6, has absolutely nothing to do with Sam. At all. The show is about the brothers, if they left one of the brothers out for a quarter of the season, I’d be mad! Jared is a wonderful actor but I’m emotionally invested in Sam! Not just any character Jared plays (no matter how brilliantly). While I have trouble imagining a way for Sam to dig himself out of this hole, I’d rather it be him than some runaway angel. Besides, Richard Speight plays Gabriel and I want him back!

There were a bunch of other tangents I wanted to go off into, but I tried to keep this shorter than a novel. If I’m wrong (as is often the case) I’ll swallow these words with a shrug and a smile just cause I love this show too freaking much.
# dmakdavis 2010-10-25 19:10
I'm so loving this turn out for this thread guys !!

Ok .. so among the many speculations that I have had so far on this season and I mean many and we're only at the first 5 episodes, I was VERY upset with this episode. I had been going along with the PTSD idea until it was blown out of the water Friday nite. So now I'm back to an idea I had prior to the new season even airing.

We all are thinking about the ways Sam could get out of hell in terms of Dean's time in. But Sam was correct when he said that his time WAS different. So here's what we know:

1. Time in hell is different from time on earth - much slower.

2. Jared P. said that Sam would be more "tactical"

3. Only Angles or God can get you out of hell

4. He went in as Samifer and dragged Adam/Michael with him

Point #1 - So with that in mind who says that someone even got him out? What if hell spit him out? He had two people that could have tossed him out on his smexy little rumpus: Luci(fer)and Michael/Adam. Both angels right?

Point #2 - Why get him out? As Luci(fer) said Sam had alot of untapped rage in him which might have given him an edge on Michael/Adam. Maybe one of the angels were loosing and loosing the meat suit might have given them an advantage over the other.

Point #3 - Sam works out. Alot. (oh yeah baby A L O T giggle) It just goes to reason that he's going to be stronger physically. But to take the head of a vamp in one swing? To vault that fence in the upcoming epi in one leap? He's tactical, very "mission" minded, hard hearted, calculating, and a such jerk :evil: But then again who wouldn't be in his situation. Remember he wasn't being tortured guys he was FIGHTING MICHAEL. I would imagine that fighting angles (which for mere mortals like say all of humankind) that's impossible. But Samifer was in for an undetermined amount time doing exactly what I assume they didn't do on earth: kick each other's ass. And he did it with Luci(fer) guiding his body, Luci(fer)'s mind controlling him, and it was an evil mind. That's gonna leave a mark on an already military trained body, mind and soul.

Point #4 - And those monsters and their alphas going nuts up top could quite possibly be the result of one or two things 1. Luci(fer) lost and Michael wants everyone rounded up and playing nice or 2. Its all part of the master plan to take over the world (just throwing that in there because it sounded fun)

My thoughts aren't perfect because I still think that something was up with Sam and Crowley in the Cemetery in Scotland because honestly .. this new Sam would have just torched his bones without thinking twice. I just haven't figured out what. Because its not like Luci(fer) would say "Oh Sam .. I don't want you hurt so here you stand in this corner till I'm done killing our brother's here" which is the only way Sam would have been able to communicate enough to even sell his soul because again .. meat suits don't get days off right?

What I don't think is going on-

I don't think that Sam is Gabriel though I wish Gabe would come back to the show he was awesome. I don't think he is a shifter though that was a VERY good idea (maybe Sam is being held prisoner?) and he is definitely not Samifer. I'm totally disappointed its not PTSD because like Tim the Enchanter has stated I don't want to loose to much Sam because then he will be hated for life.

I just want my puppy dog eye'd, Dean lovin', save them all Sam back. I love him and Dean's chemistry, their humor, and most of all I love the car ride conversations they have.

Again .. In Sera I trust so I'm sticking it out for now in hopes Veritas tells us some good stuff next week.
# Suze 2010-10-25 19:11
I'm going with souless but to be honest I've really had enough of the writers yanking this particular chain. Huh.
# dmakdavis 2010-10-25 19:24
I forgot to mention a few other things:

1. Cas prior to Swan Song was loosing his "angel juice". He wasn't able to detect alot of things that the new improved ARCH-Angel Cas would be such as is Sam was a shifter/monster of any kind/meat suite of any kind that sort of thing.

2. Also I would think that Cas would have been able to tell if Sam was souless as well but Cas is different as well so maybe he noticed but was preocupied with his own issues to tell Dean anything about Sam.

3. One other point I wanted to make is that Sam was possessed by Luci(fer) and therefore to quote Michael/Adam he wasn't "home". Once he dived into the cage I assume he retreated deep into himself to get away from Luci(fer). So I really don't think that Sam would have been able to make any deals with Crowley for soul exchanges or anything else without Luci(fer) knowing and putting a stop to it.

Because lets face it - Sam wouldn't leave Adam in the pit. Its just not who Sam is. He wouldn't leave the pit on his own unless he knew Adam was out.

Which brings me to another thing .. what if the voice on the end of the line in epi one with Grandpa was Michael/Adam? Why do I think that? Not sure .. I'm just typing and trying to figure out ways to bring Adam out of the pit and make him ok because it gives me warm and fuzzies to do it.
# nancyL 2010-10-25 19:27
I agree Suze, the writers have gotten their laughs and now it is time to fix Sammy (like Dean told Michael in 'Song remains the same'). Is it Friday yet????
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-25 19:52
Just a small heads-up for those who haven't seen it.

The CW sneak-peek for "You Can't Handle the Truth" is out. And the scene does provide some interesting answers (or perspectives).

See the "spoiler" section of Winchester Family Business.
# dmakdavis 2010-10-25 23:05
Spolier TV did their own version of "Whats up with Sam" and I wanted to post a link .. if you scroll down the page read Jasmin Weasley's comments on what she thinks is wrong with Sam; She has some pretty valid points.

Also with this new spoiler for YCHT epi coming Friday we now know what we already thought - Luci(fer) is definately not in the mix. But Cas's words haunt me enough to believe that he's still not telling Dean everything about whats going on - not with Sam or with Heavens "loose nukes" or even with the alpha's.

I feel we will get some answers on what's going but only enough to keep us guessing for a few more epi's on the new questions this epi will bring us. For now I reiterate .. I want my Sam back or at least some part of him that is NOT corrupt and willing to sacrifice his brother. The Sam I came to know and root for would NEVER have even CONSIDERED doing what he's done. I'm very disappointed that SPN would even think fans would put up with this. We wanted them back together and happily killing monsters with some bigger picture story arch. Not quasi-evil Sam who everyone wants to kill off because he hurts Dean.
# shmrck14 2010-10-25 23:33
I am beyond mad at myself for believing this damn show would do right by Sam...he finally gets some redemption, sacrifices himself for the world and this is what we get. It is so unoriginal and been done for so many Sam evil/did he come back wrong/does Dean have to kill him/Dean=good and Sam=bad. I'm over it.
# Sebe 2010-10-26 01:21
Just thought of something.

What if Sam is Adam?

We know Adam wasn't overly fond of two brothers he'd never met but ended up dying for. Being used as a vessel for Michael and tortured in the Cage? I can see him making a deal to get out and somehow getting Sam's body/taking his form.

Could explain a bit and no one's so much as mentioned the youngest Winchester yet
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-26 02:26
Just a quick thought.

My current favourite theory - and probably the simplest one - is that Sam's soul (or part of it) is ... "missing" (*cough*).

Do we have any hints what a "soul" is in the Supernatural world ? I think we know that it can be traded - with crossroads demons and apparently some angels. It contains great power and is very valuable (c.f. Balthazar.

We also know that demons come from human souls (and I have a feeling that had Dean not been rescued by Castiel in Season 4, Dean would have become a demon himself as he continued to torture other souls in Hell).

But how much of a person's ... morals ? capacity to feel love / hate or even feel any emotion ? ... is tied up with his or her soul ?

I am begining to speculate that Season 6 is going to have a "soul" theme - and perhaps even the civil wars in Hell and Heaven, and the Alphas, are all connected somehow with the question "what is a soul" ?

On another note, I don't think Sam is Adam - Adam doesn't have "hunting" skills, for one thing. But I would like to find out what happened to Adam.
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-26 03:01
Sorry for putting this in bits and drabs. :P

One of the meanings of "soulless" is "lacking sensitivity or the capacity for deep feeling".

Maybe that's what we saw when Sam stood by when Dean was turned into a vampire - as a "soulless" individual and lacking capacity to feel anything (including brotherly concern), Sam did not see (or feel or emphatise with) the danger Dean - he was only able to see a tactical advantage in the hunt for the Alpha vampire.

It should be remembered that Sam didn't deliberately put Dean in danger - they each went after what they thought was a vampire suspect.

However, when the opportunity (for a tactical advantage) presented itself to Sam, Sam was not able to "feel" anything, and was only able to "think" about the tactical advantage. So Sam's smile / smirk, was not so much a reaction at the danger Dean was in, but perhaps only a reaction to the seizing of a tactical advantage.

In short, soulless Sam cannot act according to his feelings, because he can't feel. He's not deliberately planning evil to cause suffering to anyone (or his brother), but he's not going to be able to perform acts of heroism or selfless sacrifice, because he can't feel.

Did that make any sense ? :P
# AndreaW 2010-10-26 05:36
CitizenKane2, you made loads of sense. I agree completely. I heard people say that Sam WANTS Dean dead. Absolutely not. The problem with Sam is that he can't feel, differently from post-Hell Dean who felt painfully too much. And if he can't feel, he obviously acts tactical and see the advantages of the situation, like he did with the baby before. In my opinion, the lack of soul theory is by far the most likely.
For what reasons, we can only speculate.
# Suze 2010-10-26 05:41
Yeah, I was getting that as well, CitizenKane2 ... Not moral or immoral, but amoral ie. purely pragmatic.

I do hope it's temporary, though, I want soppy Sam and his wayward fringe back pronto!
# anonymousN 2010-10-26 09:41
I kind of expected something like this to happen. Mostly in the show we see events through Dean's eyes i.e secrets are revealed to Dean and us at more or less the same time.I just hope that Sam's case is not presented in the same way as in season 4 which I honestly did not like. The reason I did not like it is we never experienced the four month through Sams eyes which was necessary as Sam's decisions in those four months led to rising of lucifer.But then again Season 3 was cut short because of the strike and hopefully the creators will not repeat what happened in Season 4 .I agree with AndreaW that Sam should have been a hero for what he had done, but till Dean comes to know about Sam most of them will talk about how Sam stood there smirking as we do not know what Sam's thoughts are behind the smirk.As yvonne and Tim the enchanter said I want it to be Sam and none other than him as even though it would be Sam's face but not be the same as it being Sam. Already have seen many episodes with Sam appearing for 5 mins don't want to know that it was not Sam who we saw for quarter of the Season.Like in season we will not know the reason for the smirk until we know what happened with Sam in that one year. Also i did not really get how long exactly in earth time and hell time was Sam in hell?
Anna W
# Anna W 2010-10-26 11:39
So many interesting theories and even though I have my own, I am definitely open to them all because honestly with Supernatural it could be any of them! That's why I love this show so much because anything is possible and that is what has kept me watching. I can't wait to come back here in the coming months and see if any of us were right!

My questions on the missing soul theory. So how can one live without a soul? I was always thought to believe that you couldn't live without a soul, therefore Sam wouldn't be human if he didn't have a soul, right? Also, why would Sam sell his soul to get out of hell if he would only have to go back in a few years time? This is why I'm kinda not into the missing his soul theory. Maybe he's missing part of it, but why or how?

Like I said before and like all of you, I WANT desperately for him to be Sam. I love Sam to death, even through everything he's done, because deep down I knew he was good. Yes he acted recklessly and he was arrogant, but he honestly thought he was doing the right thing. I was so happy to see that they finally made him grow up last season and had him redeem himself in the season finale. It breaks my heart that they just threw all that out the window.

I know a lot of people said they would be upset if they find out it isn't Sam after all this time, and before Friday I felt the same way, but now... I'm not so sure. I think I'd rather it not be him and have an outsider hurt Dean like that than have it be Sam. I just don't know how they can ever recover their relationship after something like this and I don't want another year or two of the boys at odds. I would rather Dean find out this isn't Sam then have him spend a couple of episodes finding and saving Sam. Personally, I would love to see that. That way they can start fresh and hopefully with a better relationship and a clean slate. With the way things are going, if Sam is just mentally unstable, Dean will never, ever be able to fully trust Sam again. Subconsciously he'll always be wondering if Sam is telling the truth or if he's secretly doing something or even worse, he'll do something else to put Dean at risk. Because mental issues always stick with you. You know? So I think the only thing that can save their relationship is if there truly is a supernatural force at work here. Whether that be Sam is missing all or part of his soul and it can be recovered or someone is occupying his body or Gabriel is pretending to be him. As much as I like the split personality theory, I think that might be too much of a life-long struggle for the boys to overcome and something that would prevent them from ever getting back to where they were.

Anyway, sorry if I'm rambling, but I am definitely looking forward to this week's episode to see what truth is revealed. Hopefully it will be a key to solve the puzzle. I just hope they aren't hyping up this episode then have it turn out to be nothing. We really need to start getting some answers here. The one thing I always loved about this show is they always gave us answers unlike Lost, but so far this season they haven't answered anything, only given us more and more questions! C'mon Sera, give us some answers already!
# Bevie 2010-10-26 13:00
I agree with you Anna W.

I would be upset to know that it was really our Sammy who coldly stood by while his brother was hurt. I now want Dean to discover that it is an imposter. I could never trust that cold Sam again as even with PTSD I don't believe he would do such a despicable thing.

And instead of being angry because we haven't seen the real Sam yet this season, I'd be relieved to know it wasn't him at all. And admire Jared for his great acting in the part of the imposter.

Whether it is Gabriel or something else, please don't let that person in the latest episode be our Sam. :shock:

Great discussion going on here! :-)
# dmakdavis 2010-10-27 14:56
Wait a sec ... going with the Souless Sam theory here (wow say that 10 times real fast why don't ya) lets put up a few mystery's from the show so far:

Epi 1 - We were introduced to Alpha's (who are acting out of character ie Vamps in daylight that sort of thing) and were made aware that Grandpa Skinner (Campbell but dam I loved Xfiles) is hunting for alpha's, and of course the mystery as to how Sam got out of hell and Grandpa Skinner was pulled down from Heaven (if he was in fact IN heaven.

Epi 2 - This epi we discover that Sam is definitely not our Sammy (baby/Campbells /Dean being used as bait)meaning that our Sam wants the alpha's as well though not sure if that goes with Grandpa Skinner's agenda (though I doubt it).

Epi 3 - We know Moses is not a suspect and that Cas ALLEGEDLY knows nothing about what is going on with Sam. But we do find out that Angels are acting like crossroads demon's and taking souls in exchange for ?? .. not really sure what (demons=evil angels=justice) who knows. We also know that Balthazar stole heavens weapons and that Raphael wants to jump start the apocalypse all over again because he's jerk. And from that revelation we know that Sam at least fears SOMETHING because he looked mighty sweaty over that one. We also know his time was different from Deans as far as time in hell.

Epi 4 - This epi gave us answers on what is going on in hell. Crowley is now KING of hell and is trying to show them a NEW way of doing things. It also gave us the mysterious exchange in the cemetery in Scotland where Sam holds Dean back from torching his bones (and I feel that Sam would have let him torch them if there wasn't SOME kind of deal between the two). It also jump started what could be a love match between Bobby and the Sheriff and I thought that was just dam cute too.

Epi 5 - Well here we are .. we know that Sam is just not our Sam anymore. No real mysteries to add here other than story arch with Deans mind meld with the alpha vamp before he went postal and killed about twenty of them on his own (awesome!!). I'm not going to worry about that for the time being (but wow could I use a whole new thread for story arch mysteries LOL)

So lets pull it together under the Souless Sam Theory or SST:

SST 1 - Michael/Adam tossed Sam out of hell after he kicked Luci's rear end in the pit. But before doing so Michael decides that hey, everyone else is doing it why not me and takes Sam's soul and is now a pot smoking hippie in the Andes with some chick name Harley raising Llama's and chickens and drinking homemade hooch from the Goblet of Fire from Harry Potter. Sam subsequently becomes Hunter Extraordinaire and a complete heartless jerk. Subsequent plot arch - Cas finally admits that Sam is souless and helps them find Michael/Adam to get Sam's soul back.

SST 2 - Michael/Adam takes Sams soul while in the pit (which is the reason he fell into the pit with Samifer = story arch for season 6) and is hiding out in the Andes ect. waiting to see who wins heaven leaving Sam a cold heartless jerk and completely in the dark about no soul. Michael/Adam is waiting to see who wins in heaven before showing back up with Sam's soul when he will use his soul as a bargaining chip. See if Cas wins Michael can use Sam's soul to get control of heaven without fighting any of his brothers because as Cas said he's got a bond with Dean and we all know Dean would ask him to give up heaven if it meant getting his little brother's soul back and a more humanized Sam again and if Raphael wins he can get control of heaven by telling Raphael that the only way Sam will say yes to Luci again is if they guarantee his soul will go to heaven this time instead of staying in the pit.

After a rewatch of Weekend at Bobby's I think the comment "A deal is a deal" was simply that Bobby made the deal with Crowley and Sam was upholding their end by making sure that Crowley walked away with his bones sans Dean torching them (surprising since souless Sam probably would have torched them anyway but hey its not like he had anything to lose in the deal but Bobby did .. of course not exactly something souless Sam would do but just work with me here). Maybe it didn't mean anything nefarious at all but was something they tossed out at us to make think evil thoughts.

None of these SST's though include what I feel is going on with the Alpha's, Crowley or Grandpa Skinner. I'm just pondering on Sam atm.

I'm more inclined to go with SST2 though they both include Dean/Sam/Cas probably going after Michael/Adam.

So, what do you think?
# dmakdavis 2010-10-27 15:24
From spoiler TV -

Heather: Got any really good spoilers on Supernatural? Impress me!
I'd love to bring you the whole enchilada, but I've been told to only sprinkle a little sauce your way on this one because it's a big reveal. I'm told there's a really cool twist coming up regarding something that is missing. I know. I can't believe I just told you all that too! It's like you just watched the whole rest of the season!

Copied From:
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Could this be the missing "Soul" of Sam's? :o
# AndreaW 2010-10-27 15:57
Yes, I almost died when I saw this because the first thing that came to my mind was the Amulet. I can't let go of the Amulet, you know, no matter what Kripke says. But on second thoughts, yes, it must be Sam's soul.

But considering that in Supernatural almost everything is possible, what if the Amulet and Sam's soul are connected in some way? A girl can dream. :D
# CitizenKane2 2010-10-27 22:17
When I read that, my first thought was "soul".

But it would be great if the amulet (and even "God") were to make an appearance in Season 6. :-)
# TeddyBearGirl 2010-10-29 19:34
I have a thought. Who Else was in the cage with Sam and Lucifer? Who also seemed to feel the ends justified the means? And who might have the juice to pull a man out of hell?
Anna W
# Anna W 2010-10-29 23:08
Good job guys!

So they answered my question tonight. It's so weird, up above I brought up the fact that I always thought you couldn't be "alive" if you didn't have a soul and said that if that was the case with Sam then he couldn't be human. Wow, I was shocked to see they follwed rule the rul so again, this show does not dissapoint! Sam is not human. Even though it makes me sad, I'm glad at least it still leaves it as a way for Sam to be "saved" and hopefully they can rebuild their relationship back to something stronger and better than it has been in a long time. I am very excited to see what lies ahead for the rest of the season. Thanks to all the cast and crew, what an incredible job they are doing this season and a special shout out to Jared!