Yesterday a bunch of the LA journalists got to attend a Supernatural screening of "As Time Goes By" and have a Q&A session with Executive Producer Robert Singer.  Laura Prudom of The Huffington Post has published a full transcript of that interview, and he really says a lot about what's coming up for the rest of this season.  It's quite exciting when you read it.  Sounds like Sam and Dean are going to have a ball at the hiding place for the Men of Letters in the next episode.  He also talks about Benny, Kevin, Amelia, Charlie and poor Castiel.  

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/supernatural-season-8-spoilers_n_2586582.html


Comments  

percysowner
# percysowner 2013-01-31 01:37
So, no more flashbacks, so any hope of seeing Sam after Dean disappeared is gone. Sam just dumped Dean and had no emotional reaction whatsoever. He's just a bad brother. Amelia is still important so we can look forward to a pregnancy and who's the daddy?

I signed up for a show with 2 brothers who had equal importance. I was an IDIOT.
emmanuel
# emmanuel 2013-01-31 07:21
I agree with you percysowner, I´m very dissapointed that storyline is dropped, but I don´t believe they are gonna leave it like that. I think it´s gonna be kind of like in season 6, when in the episode "The Man Who would be King" explained everything that happened right after season 5 ended. It was one of the last episodes of the season.

I just can´t accept that Sam did that. That´s not Sam, and I think the writers know about the negative fan reaction. They knew we were going to react like this (and I they don´t, I´m sorry but they are stupid) so the only logical explanation is that they are playing with us.

It HAS to be more than that. If not, I can´t begin to understand why they thought questioning Sam´s devotion for Dean was a good idea. It left Sam in such a bad place that it has to be on purpose in order to see us freaking out.

Besides, I´ve learned not to take this kind of interviews too seriously because it would be the first time that what they say has nothing to do with how everything is played out in the end. We´ll have to wait and see...

I still have hope, because the writers always listen to us. If a character is not liked, the writers write him/her off (ex: Lisa, Ben, Bela, Jo). If we like a character, they keep him/her around if they can for a while (Castiel, Bobby, Benny, Meg...)If we don´t like a storyline (Leviathans), they close that chapter. Lisa and Ben were supposed to be written off in the episode "mannequin 3", but they brought them back in the end of the season because even if the fans didn´t like them, some considered that storyline didn´t have a good resolution.

My point is: they always listen to the fandom an I´m sure they know we can´t get over the fact that Sam didn´t try to save his brother.
emmanuel
# emmanuel 2013-01-31 07:54
I wanted to say "it wouldn´t be the first time that what they say has nothing to do with how everything is played out in the end"... Sorry!
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-01-31 08:39
I truly hope you are right, but for me this interview makes it clear that the writers simply don't care about how Sam is perceived in fandom and has no intention of addressing it again.

We are about to get Dean the brave hunter and Sam the stay in the bunker research guy. Not what I was hoping for.
emmanuel
# emmanuel 2013-01-31 09:26
Yes percysowner, I know what you mean. I´m trying to stay positive in order to keep my sanity, but I share the same fear. It´s just too hard to believe for me what they are doing with Sam. I need to believe it has a purpose because otherwise it would mean that the writers don´t know their own characters and that´s just a painful thought.

Even if I´m exited with the season´s new myth arc, I want Sam kicking asses along with Dean. Research guy? No fucking way! They are both heroes and they are both smart and we want them fighting together and caring for each other. If the writers don´t get that, I´m sorry but this show is ruined. But I´m gonna give them the benefit of the doubt.
maggie
# maggie 2013-01-31 21:30
Yes you are right the writers are playing us

cause what would be the reason that Sam already explained Dean why he didn't look for him, like us the viewers found out on ep 8.06

Sam told Dean why he didn't look for him, it was mention in the end of 8x06 "Southern comfort"
Sam told Dean: "I told you from the jump where I was coming from, why I didn't look for you", right before he says "but you, you had secrets, you had Benny"


And Jensen mentioned in Chicago Con, that the writers deleted a scene in 8.01 where Dean and Sam talk about what happened to Sam....

so I'm with you waiting to the end of the season for a good explanations
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-01-31 21:42
'Kay I calmed down now that I've vented. I sincerely hope your right about them playing with us. This is kinda what I assumed or at least hoped until the article said that they were done with the flashbacks. I might be going crazy but I swear that is what they've been hinting all along.

But if they're no more flashbacks, then I not sure how we are supposed to get Sammy's side of the story. So I'm I fine it there is another way they're doing the story or if he wasn't considering a brief flashback or I'm okay with a flat out lie- I don't mind being messed with. But I am going to be seriously, completely ticked if this does end up being all we get.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-01 00:04
I have to admit that if they are playing with us, they are dragging it out too long for me. Getting a big reveal in episode 23 or 24 (I can't remember how many we get this year) will not make up for the frustration I've been feeling this season, not matter how great it is.

I admit to being a teeny bit of a hypocrite here, because I liked Soulless!Sam and a small part of me felt like season six became unbalanced when they pulled that story midseason. To me it lost us any connection with Samuel and the Campbells because that was all tied to Soulless!Sam and souled Sam couldn't remember his time with them so that story had to be cut short. Now, the writers are sticking to their plan (if there is a plan) and it is making me really unhappy with the entire season.

I am really not happy with this interview or much of where RS claims to be going. I'll just have to see how long I can stick around for the ride.
maggie
# maggie 2013-02-01 03:18
Quote:
I have to admit that if they are playing with us, they are dragging it out too long for me.
Yes I know, but this kind of thing, I don't think it could go without clarify.

I remember in season 6 after several episodes, I thought they weren't going to clarify who rescued Sam from Lucifer's cage and they did it on 6.20 "the man who would be king"

I liked soulless Sam too, although, I didn't like the dog episode 6.08 , that episode made me really miss normal Sam, but then I liked 6.09 the fairy episode, yep soulless Sam was funny
maggie
# maggie 2013-02-01 03:06
Quote:
But I am going to be seriously, completely ticked if this does end up being all we get.
Oh believe me, you and me and tons of fans would be very upset if the writers don't explain, why Sam didn't look for Dean.

It's just Sam is so out of character, like last episode how is that Sam & Dean were going to left granpa with the demon?,
Sam and Dean never left people in danger behind, not even strangers, and this time (before the demon closed the doors in their noses) they were going to left their granpa?, their family & blood to fight a powerful demon alone?! :eek: ???
maggie
# maggie 2013-01-31 21:26
The writers like Emmanuel says are totally paying with us

Sam already told Dean why he didn't look for him, it was mention in the end of 8x06 "Southern comfort" Sam said to Dean: "I told you from the jump where I was coming from, why I didn't look for you",

so he already explained it to Dean, and I really hope there is a very good explanation,

And Jensen mentioned in Chicago Con, that the writers deleted a scene in 8.01 where Dean and Sam talk about what happened to Sam....

so like Emmanuel says they knew how the fans were going to react, so I think too, they are playing with us
lala2
# lala2 2013-01-31 07:07
Sadly, I can't say I'm too surprised to learn they have NO plans to show Sam immediately after Dean's disappearance. I had a feeling we weren't going to see anything. If we were, I believe we would have already! When Dean questioned Sam about it, there was no reason for Sam to not tell him the truth? Unfortunately, Sam's truth threw him under the bus and assassinated his character, but I guess Carver didn't much care about that!

What's crazy is Carver thinks it's perfectly okay that Sam didn't investigate Dean's disappearance? He thinks it's okay that Sam just randomly decided Dean was dead!

It's beyond frustrating how clueless he is about Sam and the show, in general.

JMO of course.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-01-31 13:56
Quote:
Sadly, I can't say I'm too surprised to learn they have NO plans to show Sam immediately after Dean's disappearance. I had a feeling we weren't going to see anything. If we were, I believe we would have already! When Dean questioned Sam about it, there was no reason for Sam to not tell him the truth? Unfortunately, Sam's truth threw him under the bus and assassinated his character, but I guess Carver didn't much care about that!

What's crazy is Carver thinks it's perfectly okay that Sam didn't investigate Dean's disappearance? He thinks it's okay that Sam just randomly decided Dean was dead!

It's beyond frustrating how clueless he is about Sam and the show, in general.

JMO of course.
Clueless is the word I'd use, too.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-01-31 11:05
Moved from the speculate thread because it contains spoilers

Quote:

-more brother conflict coming up but of a different nature this time, the previous conflict is now pretty much dealt with
Are we going to have another Lucky Charms argument?

Quote:
-a big emotional talk between them coming up
which ends up with

Quote:
-in an upcoming episode Sam will tell Dean he Dean is the best hunter ever, even better than John
Of course Dean is. I mean he should be after all they have been through, but now Sam gets to tell Dean that he is worth more than Sam.

Quote:
-Sam and Dean getting a more permenant home base, a very importnant place in terms of the mythology and the boys heritage, Sam will get his nerd on and Dean will hand posters his new bedroom
Okay

Quote:
-Benny, Charlie, Kevin, Garth, Cas will be back, no real word on Amelia yet
Garth I could do without as well as Benny the Good and Wonderful, but Cas's story is part of this season, I like Charlie and I suppose Amelia has to show up pregnant or with a baby at some point, although maybe next season.

Quote:
-Sam is the brains and Dean is the brawn
Ensuring that Sam gets to look things up in books then Dean gets to have adventures and Sam gets less time onscreen then ever, but with explanation.

Quote:
-we still dont know who will be carrying out the trials, but it is hinted that it will be Dean with Sam giving support intellectually? Thats what I gor from it any way
.

See above, Sam performs no useful place in the storyline.

Quote:
-Dean's relationship with John was alwasy more complicated than Sam's, hinted that was why this episode was more emotional for Dean
Because throwing your son out of the house, wanting your son dead, and sending him away after a fight when you are going to die makes a relationship so uncomplicated.

Quote:
-Sam is the more emotional one and Dean mainly keeps to himself, he internalises more?
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Years of one emo tear, ranting about well everything makes Dean unemotional. Sam never once showing fear about going into the Cage and keeping 24/7 hallucinations at bay by pressing his palm is the height of emotion.

Quote:
-Cas is importnat to the tablet arc, mentions of the whole Crowley and Niomi situation affecting Cas.
This makes sense.

Quote:
-Sam still has normal in mind after the hell gates are closed, Dean is resigned to the hunters life. But Carver says he will make sure that Dean finds his happy/his place in the end. Dean aparently wants Sam to have normal now?
I'll see how this plays out before commenting.

Quote:
-The new homebase will be kept a secret and only Sam and Dean will know about it and go there (for now) there wont be the likes of Kevin and Garth and such popping in or hauling up there
So it will be a secret except for every single recurring character and guest star of the week. Well at least they won't put a neon sign up.

To those who can't hear my tone of voice, I'm not raging or angry. I just don't know when this whole thing turned into a farce. A story about boys whose life was set on a hero's first became about angelic vessels and is now about restarting the supernatural equivalent of the Masons. For me this has just moved into the absurd.

I'm sure I'll rage about Sam's role at some point, or maybe I'll just give up, but right now this is just so ridiculous to me.

Sorry for the massive quotes, I felt responding to each part made my thought process more clear. To make it more concise, Oy Vey!
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-01-31 12:23
Quoting laura prudom's question
Quote:
A minute ago, you were talking about Sam kind of adding to the geeky aspects of his legacy and obviously he's getting involved in the trials and everything. Where does that leave Dean?
I hated ,hated,hated... ..the answer to this question
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-01-31 12:52
Yeah I hated that one too. I also hated
Sam has kind of been wavering all season long about whether this was something he wanted to do. But he kind of said at the end of the episode that now he understands he sees why it’s all necessary and mythically destined. Would you say that this episode solidifies why he feels that what they’re doing is necessary?

Well, when we get into this whole idea of closing the gates of hell, that becomes a real raison d'etre for Sam. I think ... it’s really revenge motivated. It’s about everything that ... it’s what killed their mom, killed all their friends, all that. I think Sam would say that there’s a certain amount of closure if they could actually pull this off. I think still, he in the back of his mind thinks there’s a normal life out there for him. In a way, Dean’s onboard with that. He’d like to see [Sam] happy but they have this one thing to do. Now, television being television, they’ll have something else "one thing to do" down the line.

I think it’s a good separation of character for the two of them that one has one set of dreams and actually allows himself to dream while the other one is much more fatalistic and sort of accepts that. I would hope whenever we bring the curtain down that Dean would find some peace, and probably if I have anything to say about it he will.

Because really, Sam gets to DREAM about getting peace, but Dean is the only one he wants to actually get it.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-01-31 13:28
Quote:
I think Sam would say that there’s a certain amount of closure if they could actually pull this off.
Really? Really? What was Swan song then?These writers need to sit down and re-watch the show
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-01-31 13:39
In addition to Swan Song they killed the YED in season two and Sam killed Brady before Swan Song. I think he's gotten all the closure that he can. Although with the rest of the quote, I'm thinking Sam goes back in the Cage then Dean finds out Amelia had a kid and he gets the life Sam wanted and gets to raise Sam's kid, because Lord Knows, Singer said not one word about Sam getting peace or happiness.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-02-03 13:45
You don't think there would be closure if the boys could shut the gates of Hell forever - a place where they've both suffered unimaginable horrors? A place they've lost friends and loved ones to? A place that keeps churning out evil beings that cause much of the death and destruction that Sam and Dean have been trying to mitigate all their lives? You don't think it would be the ultimate closure to Sam, who has been a puppet of the devils of Hell for most of his life, who's life and happiness has been destroyed by demons, to shut the gates of that place?
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-03 13:55
Except what was stressed is that Sam wants REVENGE!!!! while Dean wants to save the world. Closure was mentioned, but mostly Singer focused on Sam wanting to close the Gates of Hell as revenge, the thing Dean said was wrong in season four when Sam was seeking revenge against Lilith for killing and torturing Dean. So the writers are already setting up Dean as doing the right thing period and Sam as doing the right thing for the absolutely wrong reasons.

Look this is a season where Sam has been portrayed as abandoning his brother and Kevin because he didn't care enough to look for either of them. But once he gets a revenge jag, then he's willing to do anything. To me it's just another way of making Sam look bad. And I am so sick of Sam being forced to be the bad guy.

Honestly, they need to bring Takeda over from Revenge so he can get Sam over to Revenge camp and then insert him in a show where everyone acts from that motive. At least he wouldn't be the evil selfish one. He would be like everyone else.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-02-03 14:20
There was no distinction or emphasis made that "Sam wants revenge, while Dean wants to save the world." The question asked about Sam's reasons for getting back in the game and the answers are "revenge" and "closure", which are pretty closely related.

And S4 was four years ago - before Sam went to Hell, and during a time when Dean was afraid for his brother due to the demon blood and his relationship with Ruby, afraid of Lilith and what could happen. Times have changed, and a lot has happened between then and now. If you recall, it was Dean in the S8 premiere who sounded pretty revenge-motivat ed when talking about closing the gates of Hell - he's the one who brought up mom, and Jess, and how those "evil sons of bitches" have been mucking up their lives all these years. You can bet your last dollar that Dean's doing this for revenge. How could he not? So it's not as if one is being portrayed as some saint who wants to save the world and the other is revenge-motivat ed: this hunt is PERSONAL for both of them.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-05 10:18
Agreed they are both doing this for more than just duty of heroic props. There lives have been unequivicly screwed by demons and angels alike, closing the hell gate maybe even heaven's gate would be a major goal for them both as act of real vengence against all the pain their famil;y have been caused.

Sam was highlighted as the one seeking vengence as he was the one who needed a reason to be fully in the game, Dean was already in. He didnt need a reason to be highlighted for him he already had it, Sam was sort of just going along with it but not really realising what it could mean if they actually achieved the goal.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-05 10:12
I'm with you there, I think Sam would see closing the hell gate as as close to real closure as they're gonna get. I can see him working towards this goal with a normal life in mind for afterwards knowing that he'll have done something that would essentially avenge/end all the pain and suffering of their family. I think that's what they're getting at here.

As for Dean I think he's still doing his martyr thing so he cant see that after they've closed the gates he can maybe have something/anyth ing that makes him happy whatever that may be. I dont think it will be normal like what they're suggesting will be Sam's end game but probably still hunting with maybe a girl at his side and with Sam still in his life.

The writers were not impying that Dean would get a happy ending but Sam wouldnt, I think some people are totally misreading whats being said.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-01-31 15:16
Quote:
Quote:
I think Sam would say that there’s a certain amount of closure if they could actually pull this off.
Really? Really? What was Swan song then?These writers need to sit down and re-watch the show
It doesnt overly surprise me they seem to be pretending Sam's mytharc never happened. I dont really believe Sam would see it has a 'revenge' situation either in closing the gates.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-01-31 13:58
Yeah I hated that one too. I also hated
Sam has kind of been wavering all season long about whether this was something he wanted to do. But he kind of said at the end of the episode that now he understands he sees why it’s all necessary and mythically destined. Would you say that this episode solidifies why he feels that what they’re doing is necessary?

Well, when we get into this whole idea of closing the gates of hell, that becomes a real raison d'etre for Sam. I think ... it’s really revenge motivated. It’s about everything that ... it’s what killed their mom, killed all their friends, all that. I think Sam would say that there’s a certain amount of closure if they could actually pull this off. I think still, he in the back of his mind thinks there’s a normal life out there for him. In a way, Dean’s onboard with that. He’d like to see [Sam] happy but they have this one thing to do. Now, television being television, they’ll have something else "one thing to do" down the line.

I think it’s a good separation of character for the two of them that one has one set of dreams and actually allows himself to dream while the other one is much more fatalistic and sort of accepts that. I would hope whenever we bring the curtain down that Dean would find some peace, and probably if I have anything to say about it he will.

Because really, Sam gets to DREAM about getting peace, but Dean is the only one he wants to actually get it.

RS must be EDG.
Joyful
# Joyful 2013-01-31 15:33
I LOVED this interview - it is full of so many exciting possibilities for the future of the boys and this show!! Loved it loved it LOVED it!!! That is all. :-)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-01-31 15:35
I'm just going to echo what you all are saying. But I have to vent my frustration. Okay RANT. I'll admit this is a flat out rant!

Honestly I don't know whether to put this in the spoiler or the bitterness thread. Most of the interview was fine with me I didn't agree with some of his interpretations but as this weeks episode showed, his interpretation doesn't necessarily effect the show.

But the line I can't believe is "But are we completely done with the flashbacks for both Dean and Sam?"
Yeah. Yeah.

So we are never going to see what Sam went through after Dean disappeared. Never going to see what led him to make the decision not to hunt. Obviously that means there is no twist of the storyline. So we are just supposed to believe Sam didn't look for Dean. With nothing to help us accept something that goes against EVERY SINGLE THING THIS SHOW HAS SHOWN US SINCE SEASON ONE. Namely that these two will go to any lengths for each other. But I guess that only means Dean now. So, not only does Sam not save Dean, he couldn't be bothered to try.

I honestly don't know what the F@$K they are thinking with this. So not only do they stick him in the most boring relationship ever for a too large of portion of the season. A relationship that tells us nothing about Sam except that his taste in women has gone dramatically downhill. But they have him commit the capital offense of not even looking for Dean. Are we honestly supposed to accept that Sam shrugged his shoulders and said, "What a bummer Dean's dead. Oh well."

In EoMS, they made sure to show us the contrast of Dean and Sam's life vs Dean new family, how he was still struggling, regardless of how good his life had become. Then they made a point of telling us that Dean was still trying to get Sam out, despite his promise not to. Because even though Sam was in this impenetrable cage, Dean could not move on. Then Dean rescued him by making a deal with Death. So to tally we have Dean selling his soul for Sam and Dean saving Sam from the cage.

And we have Sam, drinking DB while Dean was in hell and this time just settling down without even bothering to look with ZERO explanation. They have made him extremely unsympathetic. Looking at his character this season alone, I would wonder why Dean is so loyal. Hell maybe he should have let the demon keep Sam and could have stuck with his grandfather. He was family after all.

AAAARGH! I can't even express how much this pisses me off. If this is truly what they've done with Sam. I wondering if any of the writers truly understand what this show and its characters are about.

If they end of resolving this in another way than I will be completely contrite and thoroughly overjoyed. But right at this moment, I'm questioning my loyalty to the show.

Okay end of rant.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-01-31 21:28
Quote:
I'm just going to echo what you all are saying. But I have to vent my frustration. Okay RANT. I'll admit this is a flat out rant!

Honestly I don't know whether to put this in the spoiler or the bitterness thread. Most of the interview was fine with me I didn't agree with some of his interpretations but as this weeks episode showed, his interpretation doesn't necessarily effect the show.

But the line I can't believe is "But are we completely done with the flashbacks for both Dean and Sam?"
Yeah. Yeah.

So we are never going to see what Sam went through after Dean disappeared. Never going to see what led him to make the decision not to hunt. Obviously that means there is no twist of the storyline. So we are just supposed to believe Sam didn't look for Dean. With nothing to help us accept something that goes against EVERY SINGLE THING THIS SHOW HAS SHOWN US SINCE SEASON ONE. Namely that these two will go to any lengths for each other. But I guess that only means Dean now. So, not only does Sam not save Dean, he couldn't be bothered to try.

I honestly don't know what the F@$K they are thinking with this. So not only do they stick him in the most boring relationship ever for a too large of portion of the season. A relationship that tells us nothing about Sam except that his taste in women has gone dramatically downhill. But they have him commit the capital offense of not even looking for Dean. Are we honestly supposed to accept that Sam shrugged his shoulders and said, "What a bummer Dean's dead. Oh well."

In EoMS, they made sure to show us the contrast of Dean and Sam's life vs Dean new family, how he was still struggling, regardless of how good his life had become. Then they made a point of telling us that Dean was still trying to get Sam out, despite his promise not to. Because even though Sam was in this impenetrable cage, Dean could not move on. Then Dean rescued him by making a deal with Death. So to tally we have Dean selling his soul for Sam and Dean saving Sam from the cage.

And we have Sam, drinking DB while Dean was in hell and this time just settling down without even bothering to look with ZERO explanation. They have made him extremely unsympathetic. Looking at his character this season alone, I would wonder why Dean is so loyal. Hell maybe he should have let the demon keep Sam and could have stuck with his grandfather. He was family after all.

AAAARGH! I can't even express how much this pisses me off. If this is truly what they've done with Sam. I wondering if any of the writers truly understand what this show and its characters are about.

If they end of resolving this in another way than I will be completely contrite and thoroughly overjoyed. But right at this moment, I'm questioning my loyalty to the show.

Okay end of rant.
Loved your rant. You said what I'm thinking so no need for me to reiterate it. IMO this is REALLY bad story telling.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-01 00:07
Kelley, you are preaching to the choir with your rant. I'm just trying to ride it out and see where things go. But this is getting painful.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-02-01 01:13
When I heard about Dean hanging posters I remembered Faye Dartmouth's story "When it was over"
JoRuth
# JoRuth 2013-02-01 00:36
I am with Joyful. Loved the interview. Loved to hear how they think it all through and I am filled with anticipation for new directions for my favourite show. Love to hear how the writers and show runner and peoducers care. And loved to hear about new ways of Sam and Dean interacting with the world and with each other. Building upon who they are and developing it. And really like this new home base - somewhere for Sam and Dean to just be.
JoRuth
# JoRuth 2013-02-01 01:05
Just reading a few thoughts about Sam in this thread, many which have been said before. Many are full of the disappointment this season about Sam giving up on Dean. While I respect these thoughts and clearly expressed they are, I don't think Sam gave up on Dean, I think he was so lost he had to stop and find himself. Perhaps this is not about the Huffington article but some of the comments here have made me think about this more. I have never found Sam's decision not to look for Dean unsympathetic. Mostly because I don't think it was unsympathetic --- I think it was exhaustion, and fear and trauma - and Sam trying to deal better with it this time than going OCD soldier as in Mystery Spot or developing an addiction for control as in drinking the Demon blood. He did not want to use old coping methods but all he could manage was to run and hide. He was still hiding, lost really, when Amelia came along. Sam, as a character has always seemed,to me anyway, to be the connective emotional one...sure Dean gets angry and says terrible things without thought but he quickly turns around, often changes his mind and carries on till the next spill over...but even in anger his main driving force is loyalty and love which he holds deep but he is not always aware of how he is connecting with someone else. During soulless Sam time Dean was mostly exhausted by having to do the connecting outwardly. But Sam's emotions are about his connections with people and how or how they are not working or relating. And Sam has a deep desire for life to be different, smoother, with the connections books and research can give him. So when pushed too hard it spills over into coping poorly - I think he was trying for a new coping this time round even while it was failing inwardly and outwardly. Something the character of Amelia's father was used to point out. I for one really look forward to Sam finding some rest "getting his nerd on" in this new home base.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-01 01:41
I don't want to speak for anyone else, but my problem with Sam's storyline is bare minimum I need to see some of that happening. We got nothing except like three words in one episode. I don't need to see every second, but yes if they expect to buy that he didn't look for the most important person in his life, I need to see some of that crushing loss and confusion. He wasn't in the best mental health shape-so I could buy he had a breakdown or something, but I need evidence of that.

You have a lot of good guesses but they are based COMPLETELY off Sam's behavior in past seasons. But as late as the end of S6, he said "you know me, you know I'm not leaving my brother out there alone." So there is definitely some disconnect between that Sam and the one who didn't look. And because we have no info to go on and he didn't act in character based on that line than how is what you wrote anymore likely than him taking an extended beach vacation until he hit the dog.

This is such a major aspect of his personality and the show that I simply can't let such a glaring problem go.

And I do think this makes him unsympathetic, he didn't even seem that happy to have Dean back. And he quickly said he wanted to get away again and was only sticking around to find Kevin and then to close the gates of Hell. Again that is such a major shift in attitude that I there is no way I can buy into it with so little to go on.

I am willing to psychoanalysis the character, often do, but they can't expect the viewer to fill in the blanks when they've given us next to nothing to base the analysis on.

Okay so maybe not completely over my rant.

Like I said earlier if they end of finding a way to sell this or redeem the storyline, I will be most happily contrite. I will writes odes of joy. Do a Snoopy dance. .....
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-02-01 12:11
Quote:
But as late as the end of S6, he said "you know me, you know I'm not leaving my brother out there alone." So there is definitely some disconnect between that Sam and the one who didn't look.
Eh...I would say the situations aren't comparable. There's a difference between Sam knowing his brother is alone out in the world and choosing to go back to him - to live - and Sam not knowing where his brother is and choosing not to look. Now I'm not making any comments about that in and of itself, because I understand your frustrations in this regard - wanting to know more, wanting more of an explanation. I hope we get it, too.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-01 23:01
I don't want to effect anyone else's enjoyment of the show. And if you have no problems with the storyline than that is probably what I'm doing.

BUT I'm going to say this one more way and then limited my complaints on this to yelling at my TV when it's only me and my dog.

I am not saying there is absolute no way that I'd ever believe that Sam would be so devastated at Dean's "death" that he would lose it and just run. But nothing they have done has made this believable. With such a fundamental character trait, as NEVER giving up on your brother than the argument needs to be pretty convincing and thus far they haven't given an argument.

For instance, when Dean decided to agree with Sam's plan in SS, it was a pretty big turn around from the guy who sold his soul for his brother and it was difficult to accept. Still is. But they spent months making a leading up to that decision and I was enough for me to accept that decision. This feels like a similar situation, but all I've received is one short line. Since a good portion of the first half of the season revolved around that decision it is seriously effecting how I view what would otherwise be an excellent season.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-02-01 23:22
Quote:
I don't want to effect anyone else's enjoyment of the show. And if you have no problems with the storyline than that is probably what I'm doing.
Just wanted to say that, no, you have not affected my enjoyment of the show. :) At times my enjoyment of this site has been affected, but not by you, and even when that happens I realize it is me who probably needs to step away, because I'm letting something that is ultimately trivial affect my real life. I understand some of the concerns, I really do. And you have every right to voice those concerns. I even agree that they still need to work out the issue of Sam having not looked for Dean. So I get it at least on some level, definitely. :)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-01 23:41
Quote:
Just wanted to say that, no, you have not affected my enjoyment of the show.
I'm glad to hear it. I do normally try to be reasonable but I sometimes my love the show brings out the passionate (read:obsessive ) irrationally side. This is one of those times.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-01 23:41
This is pretty well where I am. I really am not appreciating the season because of the huge block for me that Sam didn't look for Dean. If it had been explained that he had a breakdown, or if it had been shown, instead of fixing air conditioners, I would have been fine. I understand on an intellectual level why Sam would just walk away, but then they said he ran and I just can not connect those actions with the Sam we have known without more explanation.

I'm also bothered by the statement that for Sam the closing of the Gates of Hell is going to be a revenge mission. They spent seasons making it clear that revenge is a bad reason to do something. If Sam isn't trying to close the Gates of Hell to help save the world from demons, but for his own selfish reasons, while Dean being all Protector of the World, then that also throws away much of Sam's growth over the years. I'm really uncomfortable about what has happened with this season and I am very uncomfortable with where we are being told things are going, especially in regard to the development of Sam.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-02-01 23:48
Yeah, revenge was shown to be a very bad reason for hunting. I'm willing to wait and see where they are going with that though, but it does make me wonder -Revenge for what? For their mother? Jessica? They killed Azazel and stopped the Apocalypse, that took care of those directly responsible, so who is he getting revenge for?
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-02-02 03:21
Quote:
Yeah, revenge was shown to be a very bad reason for hunting. I'm willing to wait and see where they are going with that though, but it does make me wonder -Revenge for what? For their mother? Jessica? They killed Azazel and stopped the Apocalypse, that took care of those directly responsible, so who is he getting revenge for?
This is the question I thought when I read Robert Singer say this? Sam isnt that revenge driven young man who got lost in season 4 so it seemed a odd thing to say.

I just bothered by the fact they seem to be delibrately trying to sweep Sam's past under a very big rug .
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-02-01 12:07
JoRuth, I thought this was a very insightful, well-thought out analysis of Sam and Dean's characters and the differences between them. I think you make many good points, and I agree. Thanks for sharing. :)
RMF
# RMF 2013-02-02 14:26
Quote:
So, no more flashbacks, so any hope of seeing Sam after Dean disappeared is gone. Sam just dumped Dean and had no emotional reaction whatsoever.
And it's a dealbreaker. This was the dramatic opening conflict of the season, the biggest anomaly, the single thing that most cried out for explanation, and it's all just fizzled out. Sorry, folks, moving on here, there's no 800-pound gorilla within miles.

This is the core relationship. This is one of the two main characters. It's supposed to involve two heroes, brothers with an unprecedented bond that allowed them to overcome a terrible destiny that threatened the whole world. Now we've sunk to the position that one abandoned the other, we don't understand why, and the only explanation offered is the haphazard collection of phrases "my world imploded", "I ran", "you saved me". That's not a story. That's notes on the back of an envelope.

I think the current crop of writers has taken too literally some of the mythological underpinnings of the series. One of the classic elements of the hero's journey is the hero's initial refusal of the call to adventure, and the pilot of SPN very much takes advantage of this mythological framework: Sam has a normal life, Dean crashes into it figuratively and literally and issues the call. Sam at first tells him to take care of it, he isn't needed, but Dean raises the stakes. "Dad's on a hunting trip, and he hasn't been heard from in a while." Eventually Sam is given undeniable reasons to take up the adventure. For some time, he continues to think he'll back out of it, but something always happens to draw him along, because he's a hero. He occasionally expresses regret about not having had a normal life, but so does Dean. It's really only Season 8 that tries to make wanting a normal life the defining hallmark of Sam's character, ignoring all the evolution and commitment made along his journey.

Quote:
And Jensen mentioned in Chicago Con, that the writers deleted a scene in 8.01 where Dean and Sam talk about what happened to Sam.... 
Then it doesn't count, does it? Either this was a crappy throwaway scene that didn't really shed light on anything, or they didn't think it was important enough to clarify Sam's motivations to keep it in the episode. In any case, I'm hardly going to wait until the Season 8 DVDs come out so I can watch the deleted scenes and find out what the hell this was all about.

I'm not overlooking the raft of perfectly plausible explanations posters have offered as to why Sam may have done what he did. But  that's just us shoveling dirt into the hole. The writers have not done the work. The hell of it is, they honestly seem to believe that they have, that the slim pickings they've offered on screen have actually conveyed something, and that they're done here.

No one has commented on the funniest part of the interview. So I will:
Quote:
I’m like the official "Supernatural" bullshit meter.
If that were true, he would have started to shimmy in 8x05 and gone the way of Dick Roman in 8x12.

Now for the least funny part.

Quote:
Well, if you boil it down simply you’d say Sam is more the brains and Dean is more the brawn. I can’t remember which episode ... where Sam makes a speech and he says, “You’re the greatest hunter I’ve ever seen. You’re better than Dad.” That’s Dean.
Seriously? Now I don't know whether Singer is referring to a past episode or an upcoming one, but I don't recall hearing Sam ever saying anything that over the top, and I'm quite sure I don't want to. I thought that both brothers together, with their mutual and complementary skills, were credibly the greatest hunters ever. Now thanks to Singer, I realize that it's really a story about Dean Winchester, Greatest Hunter Ever, and his cast of supporting characters. The hell with the "brains". Nice value judgement, eh?

I have a problem with where this season has taken us so far and where it appears to be going. Not only has Sam been trashed as a brother and as a hero, this "Gentlemen of Letters" bit doesn't sit well with me, either. The hunters' world is refreshing because they're anonymous, unheralded, blue-collar sandlot scrappers who defend the common man with guts, smarts, and instinct, with no pretension whatsoever. The prior incarnations of their "home base" -- the roadhouse, Bobby's house, Rufus' cabin -- have had the right sort of ramshackle synergy with that world. Now all of a sudden, the Winchesters are heirs to an elitist legacy, a secret society, creepy guys in burgundy robes, and their library of all the spells in the world. That library is a deus ex machina in the making, a reinvention of Bobby Singer without the grizzled charm. You know that every time they have to defeat X, the spell to defeat X is going to be in there. And they're not going to share their find with the hunting world, the way Bobby did or the improbably wonderful Garth is, they're going to hide it. And this intellectual elitism is being tied most closely to -- wait for it -- Sam. So I see a real potential for Sam to be shoved into this library to make way for Dean Winchester, Action Hero, and to come off badly for it.

I guess I'm just tired of waiting for some kind of balance or emotional logic to come back into the story. If the show still works for some people, then lucky them, but I'm afraid it's not my show any more.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-03 13:26
I agree with so much of this. The lack of insight into Sam's not looking for Dean is becoming a deal breaker. I also am wary about this new location. It seems designed to become Sam's research facility and Sam will be pushed farther into the background. Add that to poor tortured Benny, who is a real friend to Dean, resurfacing and we have a perfect storm. Benny needs Dean to stay sober and as a vampire Benny has faster reflexes, is stronger than Sam and can't be easily injured or killed. And he doesn't get along with Sam. So suddeqly they can have Dean hunting with his better brother, Benny and his BFF Cas and Sam can have 5 minutes per episode where they call him for information about the MOW and another 5 minutes where Sam delivers whatever part of the spell they need to vanquish the MOW and then Sam can be pushed back into the library for the rest of the time.

I am getting worse and worse vibes about where the show is heading. The writing may be better, but it is not looking like the show I loved.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-02-03 13:39
Quote:
Dean loves the information if he can act on it. “Oh great, what do we need?” “You need the cimetar from the 13th century to chop the guy’s head off.” “Great. Let’s go find it and do it.” That’s Dean.
You know it was this part of singer's reply that infuriated me.Me because according to this comment in future someone (i.e Sam) is going to tell Dean "You require the cimetar from the 13th century to chop this guy's head off ". Now if Sam did not disappear from my screen when they focus on Dean (like in the end Dean-Charlie-fa iry Scene or the Dean henry scene of Bonding which i personally think would be the same if Sam was not in the screen) I would not be worried.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-02-03 21:25
Quote:
Quote:
So, no more flashbacks, so any hope of seeing Sam after Dean disappeared is gone. Sam just dumped Dean and had no emotional reaction whatsoever.
And it's a dealbreaker. This was the dramatic opening conflict of the season, the biggest anomaly, the single thing that most cried out for explanation, and it's all just fizzled out. Sorry, folks, moving on here, there's no 800-pound gorilla within miles.

This is the core relationship. This is one of the two main characters. It's supposed to involve two heroes, brothers with an unprecedented bond that allowed them to overcome a terrible destiny that threatened the whole world. Now we've sunk to the position that one abandoned the other, we don't understand why, and the only explanation offered is the haphazard collection of phrases "my world imploded", "I ran", "you saved me". That's not a story. That's notes on the back of an envelope.

I think the current crop of writers has taken too literally some of the mythological underpinnings of the series. One of the classic elements of the hero's journey is the hero's initial refusal of the call to adventure, and the pilot of SPN very much takes advantage of this mythological framework: Sam has a normal life, Dean crashes into it figuratively and literally and issues the call. Sam at first tells him to take care of it, he isn't needed, but Dean raises the stakes. "Dad's on a hunting trip, and he hasn't been heard from in a while." Eventually Sam is given undeniable reasons to take up the adventure. For some time, he continues to think he'll back out of it, but something always happens to draw him along, because he's a hero. He occasionally expresses regret about not having had a normal life, but so does Dean. It's really only Season 8 that tries to make wanting a normal life the defining hallmark of Sam's character, ignoring all the evolution and commitment made along his journey.

Quote:
And Jensen mentioned in Chicago Con, that the writers deleted a scene in 8.01 where Dean and Sam talk about what happened to Sam.... 
Then it doesn't count, does it? Either this was a crappy throwaway scene that didn't really shed light on anything, or they didn't think it was important enough to clarify Sam's motivations to keep it in the episode. In any case, I'm hardly going to wait until the Season 8 DVDs come out so I can watch the deleted scenes and find out what the hell this was all about.

I'm not overlooking the raft of perfectly plausible explanations posters have offered as to why Sam may have done what he did. But  that's just us shoveling dirt into the hole. The writers have not done the work. The hell of it is, they honestly seem to believe that they have, that the slim pickings they've offered on screen have actually conveyed something, and that they're done here.

No one has commented on the funniest part of the interview. So I will:
Quote:
I’m like the official "Supernatural" bullshit meter.
If that were true, he would have started to shimmy in 8x05 and gone the way of Dick Roman in 8x12.

Now for the least funny part.

Quote:
Well, if you boil it down simply you’d say Sam is more the brains and Dean is more the brawn. I can’t remember which episode ... where Sam makes a speech and he says, “You’re the greatest hunter I’ve ever seen. You’re better than Dad.” That’s Dean.
Seriously? Now I don't know whether Singer is referring to a past episode or an upcoming one, but I don't recall hearing Sam ever saying anything that over the top, and I'm quite sure I don't want to. I thought that both brothers together, with their mutual and complementary skills, were credibly the greatest hunters ever. Now thanks to Singer, I realize that it's really a story about Dean Winchester, Greatest Hunter Ever, and his cast of supporting characters. The hell with the "brains". Nice value judgement, eh?

I have a problem with where this season has taken us so far and where it appears to be going. Not only has Sam been trashed as a brother and as a hero, this "Gentlemen of Letters" bit doesn't sit well with me, either. The hunters' world is refreshing because they're anonymous, unheralded, blue-collar sandlot scrappers who defend the common man with guts, smarts, and instinct, with no pretension whatsoever. The prior incarnations of their "home base" -- the roadhouse, Bobby's house, Rufus' cabin -- have had the right sort of ramshackle synergy with that world. Now all of a sudden, the Winchesters are heirs to an elitist legacy, a secret society, creepy guys in burgundy robes, and their library of all the spells in the world. That library is a deus ex machina in the making, a reinvention of Bobby Singer without the grizzled charm. You know that every time they have to defeat X, the spell to defeat X is going to be in there. And they're not going to share their find with the hunting world, the way Bobby did or the improbably wonderful Garth is, they're going to hide it. And this intellectual elitism is being tied most closely to -- wait for it -- Sam. So I see a real potential for Sam to be shoved into this library to make way for Dean Winchester, Action Hero, and to come off badly for it.

I guess I'm just tired of waiting for some kind of balance or emotional logic to come back into the story. If the show still works for some people, then lucky them, but I'm afraid it's not my show any more.
I am tired of waiting, too. If what we are thinking is going to happen does I'm done with the show. I love Sam and can barely tolerate Dean anymore so am not interested in watching the Dean show. It's basically been that since season 4 and I can only handle so much of it. Sam has been shoved into the background too often to suit me and I can't handle much more of it.
kerinda h
# kerinda h 2013-02-03 21:54
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So, no more flashbacks, so any hope of seeing Sam after Dean disappeared is gone. Sam just dumped Dean and had no emotional reaction whatsoever.
And it's a dealbreaker. This was the dramatic opening conflict of the season, the biggest anomaly, the single thing that most cried out for explanation, and it's all just fizzled out. Sorry, folks, moving on here, there's no 800-pound gorilla within miles.

This is the core relationship. This is one of the two main characters. It's supposed to involve two heroes, brothers with an unprecedented bond that allowed them to overcome a terrible destiny that threatened the whole world. Now we've sunk to the position that one abandoned the other, we don't understand why, and the only explanation offered is the haphazard collection of phrases "my world imploded", "I ran", "you saved me". That's not a story. That's notes on the back of an envelope.

I think the current crop of writers has taken too literally some of the mythological underpinnings of the series. One of the classic elements of the hero's journey is the hero's initial refusal of the call to adventure, and the pilot of SPN very much takes advantage of this mythological framework: Sam has a normal life, Dean crashes into it figuratively and literally and issues the call. Sam at first tells him to take care of it, he isn't needed, but Dean raises the stakes. "Dad's on a hunting trip, and he hasn't been heard from in a while." Eventually Sam is given undeniable reasons to take up the adventure. For some time, he continues to think he'll back out of it, but something always happens to draw him along, because he's a hero. He occasionally expresses regret about not having had a normal life, but so does Dean. It's really only Season 8 that tries to make wanting a normal life the defining hallmark of Sam's character, ignoring all the evolution and commitment made along his journey.

Quote:
And Jensen mentioned in Chicago Con, that the writers deleted a scene in 8.01 where Dean and Sam talk about what happened to Sam.... 
Then it doesn't count, does it? Either this was a crappy throwaway scene that didn't really shed light on anything, or they didn't think it was important enough to clarify Sam's motivations to keep it in the episode. In any case, I'm hardly going to wait until the Season 8 DVDs come out so I can watch the deleted scenes and find out what the hell this was all about.

I'm not overlooking the raft of perfectly plausible explanations posters have offered as to why Sam may have done what he did. But  that's just us shoveling dirt into the hole. The writers have not done the work. The hell of it is, they honestly seem to believe that they have, that the slim pickings they've offered on screen have actually conveyed something, and that they're done here.

No one has commented on the funniest part of the interview. So I will:
Quote:
I’m like the official "Supernatural" bullshit meter.
If that were true, he would have started to shimmy in 8x05 and gone the way of Dick Roman in 8x12.

Now for the least funny part.

Quote:
Well, if you boil it down simply you’d say Sam is more the brains and Dean is more the brawn. I can’t remember which episode ... where Sam makes a speech and he says, “You’re the greatest hunter I’ve ever seen. You’re better than Dad.” That’s Dean.
Seriously? Now I don't know whether Singer is referring to a past episode or an upcoming one, but I don't recall hearing Sam ever saying anything that over the top, and I'm quite sure I don't want to. I thought that both brothers together, with their mutual and complementary skills, were credibly the greatest hunters ever. Now thanks to Singer, I realize that it's really a story about Dean Winchester, Greatest Hunter Ever, and his cast of supporting characters. The hell with the "brains". Nice value judgement, eh?

I have a problem with where this season has taken us so far and where it appears to be going. Not only has Sam been trashed as a brother and as a hero, this "Gentlemen of Letters" bit doesn't sit well with me, either. The hunters' world is refreshing because they're anonymous, unheralded, blue-collar sandlot scrappers who defend the common man with guts, smarts, and instinct, with no pretension whatsoever. The prior incarnations of their "home base" -- the roadhouse, Bobby's house, Rufus' cabin -- have had the right sort of ramshackle synergy with that world. Now all of a sudden, the Winchesters are heirs to an elitist legacy, a secret society, creepy guys in burgundy robes, and their library of all the spells in the world. That library is a deus ex machina in the making, a reinvention of Bobby Singer without the grizzled charm. You know that every time they have to defeat X, the spell to defeat X is going to be in there. And they're not going to share their find with the hunting world, the way Bobby did or the improbably wonderful Garth is, they're going to hide it. And this intellectual elitism is being tied most closely to -- wait for it -- Sam. So I see a real potential for Sam to be shoved into this library to make way for Dean Winchester, Action Hero, and to come off badly for it.

I guess I'm just tired of waiting for some kind of balance or emotional logic to come back into the story. If the show still works for some people, then lucky them, but I'm afraid it's not my show any more.
I am tired of waiting, too. If what we are thinking is going to happen does I'm done with the show. I love Sam and can barely tolerate Dean anymore so am not interested in watching the Dean show. It's basically been that since season 4 and I can only handle so much of it. Sam has been shoved into the background too often to suit me and I can't handle much more of it.

you and me both I really getting sick of it that I am losing faith in the show but what can we do about it scream at the writers no there is not a damn thing we can do about it.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-05 10:29
Well if they're gonna show Sam as the brains and Dean brawn then I would like to think we'd see Sam beng uber smart to Dean's uber dumbass, after all they're already suggesting that Sam is an incomtant hunter to Dean's best hunter ever. So if thats they way they're gonna play it then I hope to see more stupid Dean, its only fair.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-02-04 10:09
If it gets to that point, I will have to write the show off for my own peace of mind.