boo

IT IS UNPROFESSIONAL to admit but you can tell they have listened to the fans & thus fuked up the story-telling.

Jen, I don't really have an answer to your question without knowing more specifically how those actors say that things were changed in accordance with fan wishes, but I was curious about the movie. Is it mostly interviews of fans? or a lot of other footage as well? You say it's excellent but I'd love to hear a few more specifics if you wouldn't mind sharing. I knew that Clif and his bro were making this film but I didn't realized they had already begun releasing it in installments. thanks Jen!

And I thought I was so clever maybe I can't share since it is a paid subscription If you think I can think of a way I can just let me know and Thanks for trying to answer my question

Thats ok elif I understand - they put alot of time and effort into the movie the price of ea ep is good - and your naughty LOL

Meg. said in conversation to the interviewer that at times a episode was altered according to fan responses and the fandom did have a influence on the show.

Well, certainly being a fan, it's not like I can be too upset about them possibly heading my "wishes." But on the other hand...

There's a bit of a paradox to life that sometimes the worst thing you can do for a person, is to give them what they want (often because they may not know what they want). This is especially true in creating fiction where, well first remember the phrase of showbiz: "always leave them wanting more." If you give the audience exactly what they want, then they'll want no more and leave (for a prime example, look up Shipping Bed Death). The other reason to be careful is because sometimes what fans want will involve contradicting a character or breaking the rules of the world - violating canon.

This is fascinating and now I really wonder how much it was responsible for the sheer feeling of haphazard writing the previous 2-3 seasons.

Thank you Nate - I did read the link that you supplied interesting. So in black & white if you give the fans what they won't 100% it may kill
the show / correct ?
Introduce some of what the fandom wont's maybe ok if done within canon and story line / correct ?
So like everything in life if you really enjoy something have small amounts and you will always enjoy it.
I am not knowledgable enough to have a decent conversation with you about this, but as a fan and a person who watches the show for entertainment I can see good and bad in this situation. I think I would prefer a show to run to the scripted story rather than introduce other ideas from outside influences ie Fandom
Nate do you think that maybe they are considering this more often, because the SPN has been running 11 yrs & they won,t to keep it going so they are giving fans more of what they won,t As you said the up and down writing of the last 2 - 3 seasons was noticable in really swung from great eps to really poor eps.
Also would the main stars Jared & Jensen be on board with this ???? or do you think that might be why they went back to basics this season. Nothing against gay people but I'm so glad they didn't listen to Dean/Cas shippers. Surely Misha or Jensen wouldn't go for that
Thanks again Nate do you have any other thoughts on the subject

Jen ...

The biggest example of this is with the brothers. I remember watching a snippet of a Con on YouTube, and in it Jensen remarks that the reason the brothers don't have lasting intimate relationships with women is because "ya'll don't like that".

That has also been commented on and confirmed by various writers/producers, etc, over the years. The reason Sam & Dean don't have serious lasting relationships with women is because a vocal minority of the female fandom has a knit-fit.

With all due respect to the female fandom, that's fucking retarded.

Mind you, this is probably the same minority that writes incestuous fan-fiction about two brothers fucking each other ... but hey ... who am I to judge?

It's has to be an odd place to be in for a producer of the show though. Your rating aren't that good, but your fan presence & enthusiasm (Peoples Choice Awards) is astounding. Con attendance is through the roof, and then you have this massive social media following that just won't quit.

How does a non artistic, yet business minded studio-lackey/producer look at that and not say "hey, that's our meal ticket. We should do what they like". Art then conforms, and before you know it, we have paint by numbers episodes, and story lines that are more soap opera than science fiction/drama.

Mass appeal is the meal of the day.

If I'm understanding you correctly, Jen (always a big if, I apologize if I misunderstand)...

I will say, first of all, that Destiel becoming canon WILL kill the show. Not for any reason than once the shippers get what they wanted, there will be no reason to watch any more and the ratings will tank. Just look at any other work with a long, very popular potential-relationship and how quickly it died once the relationship was "confirmed" and the two involved got together.

Thank you Nate - I did read the link that you supplied interesting. So in black & white if you give the fans what they won't 100% it may kill the show / correct ?

More or less and this is kind of what separates TV from movies. Movies are supposed to be a self contained story, so IDEALLY by the end credits you should have satisfied the audience and given them 100% what they wanted. Until a TV show ends, it wants to keep people coming back, so you have to avoid giving the audience 100% and satisfying them, otherwise they won't return.

If you want an easier, apples to apples comparison, look at a completely self-contained movie vs those planned to be a series from the start (an example would be some of Christopher Nolan's lone movies vs the bodega of superhero flicks we have now).

Introduce some of what the fandom wont's maybe ok if done within canon and story line / correct ?

Well certainly for me as I consider canon & internal consistency the most important thing about a fictional work.

So like everything in life if you really enjoy something have small amounts and you will always enjoy it.

Certainly. It helps one avoid the hedonistic treadmill.

I am not knowledgable enough to have a decent conversation with you about this, but as a fan and a person who watches the show for entertainment I can see good and bad in this situation. I think I would prefer a show to run to the scripted story rather than introduce other ideas from outside influences ie Fandom

A little later I found this article that also seemed relevant:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=17692

Key quote:

This trust becomes really important when the audience is presented with something that doesn’t seem to follow naturally. Maybe it’s a plot hole. Maybe not. But something jumps out at the viewer. Hey! This character isn’t acting according to their stated goals, therefore…

A: …I must have missed something earlier. Or maybe this will be explained later. Maybe this will even pay off in a later reveal.

OR:

B: …THIS STORY IS STUPID.

Here’s the thing: It’s the job of the storyteller to create and maintain that trust. Talking about how to build trust is like talking about how to build creativity or enthusiasm. It’s not really something you can force. Let us agree that it’s a lot of work to get a stranger to trust you, and even harder if you’ve already proven untrustworthy in the past.

He calls it trust, i call it audience "credit" or 'goodwill' but regardless, it's an act that creators have to juggle. My instinct is that if you bind yourself too much to audience whims, you'll end up breaking that trust/goodwill (especially as often the audience will be split on what it does and doesn't want).

I think the truth is they listen to some things and ignore most others. If a character is generally disliked they won't be around long. It seems to me that the reason they don't have the guys in long term relationships is more because it doesn't work well within the context of the basic premise. Jensen knows that. As long as they are hunters it just doesn't work. You can't ignore the fans completely but you can't please everybody, it's impossible. I DO think they tried to address some major fan complaints about the constant conflicts between Sam and Dean the last few years. It's really a no-win situation try and cater to the fans. You please one faction and another faction will be unhappy.

I think Nate has really hit it on the head.... if you give the audience what they want, what the show has been hinting at possibly, then you kill its drive. Case in point the 1980's show Moonlighting (1985-89; which also co-starred Curtis Armstrong coincidentally!). That show had a nearly palpable sexual tension between it's two leads Sybil Sheppard and Bruce Willis, you could practically cut it with a knife, but somewhere along about the third season the two characters finally got together; the show lasted barely another year after that. The anticipation was better than the actuality.

Having said that tho' the issue of relationships between various characters on Supernatural will never happen for other reasons than it would kill the drama. Wincest will never happen because..... yuck, socially it's still taboo to have a sexual relationship with a sibling, so no, the show won't go there. And as far as Destiel... that will never become canon because Jensen would rather gouge out his eyes and sever all his limbs. It will never, ever happen because the actors would never go for it. I'll bet Jensen would walk first; he's made his line in the sand pretty clear on this issue. So that particular faction of the fandom can scream and carry on all they want; they can analyze every scene looking for hidden clues and wait in hope for that grand moment that it all becomes Canon, but it won't......ain't never, and I mean ever going to happen.

This is a little bit off topic and I don't even know if I am being sarcastic at this stage - but considering the current online world... You know what might work as an interactive idea is a weekly show where the producers hire a bunch of pretty actors and have them make what are fundamentally glorified gifs, launch them onto the world and allow the viewers to develop their own ideas about what the storyline is, could be, should be, and where they think it ought to go. The show each week could be half discussion of the best ideas the fans come up with (or the most unanimous) and half new gifs being launched based on feedback... Considering some of the pretty amazing meta I see on a regular basis it could be a source of really unexplored new ideas for shows, things it just doesn't occur to writers that viewers might like to see...

They could make an entire episode of the show maybe once a month or something to give people a real hook.

Actually ... it would turn into 'Snakes on a Plane' wouldn't it? .... Worse, it would turn into 'Snakes with a Ship'.


(there is no swearing in this clip ... *giggle*)

Thank you everybody for your input on my question - I havn't ever got this envolved with a TV show before. There has been many series that I have enjoyed but never contemplated joining a fandom Well I really didn't know much about such a thing. But it was the SPN Family that I heard about that made me aware of such a thing and even then I was not overly impressed till I found WFB. It is a mature fan site where we all have great discussions / laugh and generally cause a bit of havoc.
So what I'm trying to say is thank you for teaching me more about the TV industry, I watch my favourite shows with little or no thought as to what goes into making said show, the politics, the constant pressure to produce a show and to keep it on air. I now have a new appreciation and a little more understanding
So with the introduction of internet media, the very loud at times voice of the fandoms of TV shows this can influence how a story is written or altered. With everthing that has been explained to me I will except that as a part of life. But I still don't like it. Fandoms are here to support their show love the characters, care about their favourite actors, get in on discussions and write a little fiction. That should be the extant of their influence. Thanks again everybody xxoo