Let’s Discuss: When the Supernatural Fandom Crosses Lines
Back in December of 1986, William Shatner, beloved Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise in the original “Star Trek” series, hosted “Saturday Night Live.” He got to live what is every genre actor’s dream, telling fans at an over-the-top fan convention what he actually thought. His words were simple, “Get a life. It’s only a TV show. You’ve taken a fun little job I did as a lark and turned it into a colossal waste of time!” Naturally he backpedalled later after having an altercation with the guy running the con, who showed him his contract, covering his tracks by claiming he was re-enacting evil Captain Kirk.
As absolutely hilarious as the skit was (it’s one of my all time favorites), it also hits a little too close to home for those of us heavily involved in fandom. Fans get carried away, and sometimes it passes the point of normal behavior and gets into dangerous territory.
“Supernatural” fans have always been known for being enthusiastic, but lately there’s been some glaring examples of how fandom can take things too far. It’s hit levels recently that are so bad, that average fans have been slowly backing away, muttering constant reminders to ground them, “It’s only a TV show, it’s only a TV show…” Judging by some of the recent altercations on Twitter, it’s been ruffling a few staff members’ feathers too.
Here are examples of “crossing lines” that we admins have seen online in just the last week, both on this site and others:
- Tweeting hate/plot demands to the writers/producers/crew members.
- Shipping Supernatural actors’ kids (seen this in multiple places, and not as a joke either).
- Fan campaigns making constant demands of TPTB, even if that group does not necessarily represent popular opinion (it never does).
- Expecting the show to owe you something because you are a loyal viewer. For example, “You have to listen to us fans, we’re People’s Choice Award winners!” Remember fans, we voted for ourselves.
- Threatening harm to anyone on the show or yourself because of an episode/plot twist.
- Sending hateful messages to wives/girlfriends of actors just because they are with your favorite star.
- Bullying other members of the fandom because they don’t support your POV or ship.
- THIS JUST IN TODAY – found on tumblr. I hate Misha Collins day? Really? What did Misha ever do to you? He builds shelters and repairs homes in Haiti for Chuck’s sake! He helps people!
There’s also a couple con specific ones that came up in Vegas:
- Asking extremely inappropriate questions.
- Thinking that just because you pay money for these cons, the actors are there to be your personal playthings (this is mostly a photo ops issue).
- Dissing one actor in front of another. They’re all friends people, and don’t take kindly to that behavior.
Geez, we think it’s time for a “Supernatural” reality check.
In terms of online behavior, just because it’s easy to send faceless messages and hide under anonimity, it doesn’t mean that basic manners shouldn’t be used when communicating with others. So you’re honestly telling me that if you saw a writer or producer face to face, you’d tell them in a rather belligerant, demanding, super disrespectful tone that they’re screwing up the show? I know a few would, but most wouldn’t. These writers and producers are doing their job, and fans often forget it’s just a TV show. Would you treat people in other professions this way? Is there a contractual obligation that these writers have to make you happy? (I’d love to see that clause!)
In terms of actors and their families, you all do realize that they’re normal people right? They’re human, they have feelings, and they have a right to live a peaceful life like any one of us. They owe us nothing. We should be grateful they actually do what they do for us.
Now, before a major outcry happens, please keep in mind that we’re not saying all fans do this. We know a majority don’t. And if you do recognize yourself anywhere in this article, we aren’t saying you are a bad person for engaging in this behavior. We’re saying that maybe it would be a good idea to take a step back and examine WHY you are engaging in behavior that is contributing to a toxic atmosphere in fandom and consider altering it.
Enough pontificating, it’s your time to dicuss. Do you think the fan behavior has gotten better, worse, or the same? Are you bothered by what you see on line, or are you accepting it as par for the course? What examples of extreme behavior have you seen lately? What constitutes “crossing a line” to you? (I vote for I hate Misha Collins day). Or, bring up any other discussion points you might have on the subject. We’d love to hear it.
Since this a “Let’s Discuss” article, this is a free zone, but we would hope than when discussing an article about bad fan behavior, you all were on your best behavior! Respecting others is just one of our rules, but it’s the most important. Here’s the link to our rules just in case you aren’t sure what they are:
Okay, let’s discuss! And for those of you that are curious about that William Shatner skit, it can be found here:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x930vt_william-shatner-snl-skit-get-a-life_fun#.UU-AKr8THFI
If the writers or others associated with the show ask for our opinions, I think fans have the right to give them. Of course, it should always be done politely, but one thing I’ve noticed is that many Supernatural fans are ESL and their enthusiasm often comes across as excessive or aggressive even when that isn’t the intention at all.
I’ve also noticed that the term ‘hate’ is tossed around a lot, and it apparently has a different meaning for fandom than for the rest of the world. Not liking a particular storyline or character ISN’T hate. Telling the writers or anyone else on the show that a storyline or character isn’t your favorite or isn’t doing it for you ISN’T hate. It’s just an opinion, and we’re all allowed to have them.
It’s frustrating to me, as a fan who hasn’t been enjoying every aspect of the show this season, to constantly be made to feel like I’m somehow a ‘bad fan’ for daring not to enthusiastically cheer every decision made by the SPN ptb. Or that I’m made to feel that I shouldn’t talk about how I’d like to see the show retain it’s original focus on the two main characters. Fandom should be a safe place for everyone, but the amount of hate–and I mean that in it’s literal sense, with namecalling, putdowns and flat out aggressive rudeness–that I get for expressing my opinions is staggering (to me, anyway). I do my best to ignore it, but it’s not easy when fans with differing opinions come to my twitter and attack me and my friends for daring to discuss what we love about the show and what we wish were different.
I wish we could all just love our favorite show in our own way in peace.
[quote]It’s frustrating to me, as a fan who hasn’t been enjoying every aspect of the show this season, to constantly be made to feel like I’m somehow a ‘bad fan’ for daring not to enthusiastically cheer every decision made by the SPN ptb. Or that I’m made to feel that I shouldn’t talk about how I’d like to see the show retain it’s original focus on the two main characters. Fandom should be a safe place for everyone, but the amount of hate–and I mean that in it’s literal sense, with namecalling, putdowns and flat out aggressive rudeness–that I get for expressing my opinions is staggering (to me, anyway). [/quote]
Can I just say how staggered I am by your sheer hypocrisy? Since [i]you[/i] are one of the fans who constantly, [i]continuously[/i], rags on Castiel fans, insulting them with “namecalling, putdowns and flat-out rudeness,” as well as accusing them of being “bad” fans simply for liking Cas – who, according to you and your pals “isn’t a part of Supernatural” (sorry, but the show would beg to differ). And you also insult Misha Collins frequently.
I would advise you to take the plank out of your own eye before you start checking for the splinter in ours. Seriously, your gall flabbergasts me. You are renowned as being one of the nastiest Cashaters in this fandom.
Castiel is a character on a TV show. It’s okay for me to hate him if I want to, because he’s not real. I never have and never will deny that I dislike the character intensely and would like to see him off the show, because I feel the show would be better without him. Again, it’s perfectly acceptable for me to feel that way about a character on a TV show.
I do not nor have I ever insulted or directed ‘hate’ at Misha. The worst thing I’ve said about him is that I don’t care for the way he conducts his panels at cons because of the way he tends not to answer questions seriously. Honestly, if that’s the worst thing anyone ever says about the man he should probably consider himself lucky.
I try not to insult fans. I don’t understand how anyone can believe that destiel is something real in the show, and I STRONGLY dislike that fans tweet and write and basically badger the writers/ptb about somehow making it real despite the fact that it’s not what the show is about. However, disliking the actions of a subset of fans, and expressing that dislike to my friends, is not the same as hate. I DO NOT go to other fans’ feeds or timelines and insult them or call them names simply because they disagree with me. The only time I interact with those fans is when they come to me first. I have a right, which I seldom exercise, to defend myself when attacked, but for the most part I simply block and move on with my life. I don’t force anyone to come to my timeline and read what I have to say, and I don’t seek out opinions that differ from mine so that I can put them down.
[quote]I STRONGLY dislike that fans tweet and write and basically badger the writers/ptb about somehow making it real despite the fact that it’s not what the show is about. [/quote]
Eh? But [i]you[/i] tweet and write and basically badger the writers/ptb with your Cas-hate and requests that he be removed from the show in favor of [i]your[/i] interpretation of “what the show is about,” even though Castiel’s inclusion since S4 means the PTB clearly consider him an important element of the show. I also follow the writers/PTB, and I often see your tweets and the tweets of your little cadre of tinhatters. And I’ve also seen screencaps of the hate tweets you and them send to Misha Collins, circulating on Tumblr.
What you’re saying here is that it’s okay for [i]you[/i] to bombard the writers/ptb with what [i]you[/i] want – and to promote a Wincest agenda even though many, many fans don’t see any Wincest subtext at all – but that it isn’t okay for people who see things differently?
I rarely tweet anyone associated with the show beyond saying that I love Sam and Dean and can’t wait to see more of them. I have NEVER tried to promote a wincest agenda on the show because I firmly believe that it is a fandom ship and that Sam and Dean do NOT have a physical relationship on the show.
If tumblr is where you get your info, then you might want to consider the source. I don’t follow Misha or tweet hate to or about him–because I don’t hate him. I am perfectly capable of distinguishing between an actor and the character he plays, and I have nothing against Misha Collins beyond disliking his character.
[quote]I rarely tweet anyone associated with the show beyond saying that I love Sam and Dean and can’t wait to see more of them[/quote]
Oh rly? It’s 12.30pm where I am and judging by your TL you have spent the last hour badgering Robbie Thompson and Adam Glass, and retweeting hate to them. As well as bitching about the person who runs this forum.
I don’t actually care about it, do what you like. But then don’t complain about other people doing it, hmmm?
[b]ADMIN WARNING![/b]
Sarah2 Please be conscious of your tone when responding to comments. We are all for passionate discussion, but attack is not in the spirit or our commenting guidelines. Please tone it down.
I follow kelios on twitter and she does not Badger the writers!
[quote]I follow kelios on twitter and she does not Badger the writers![/quote]
Oh rly? It’s 12.30pm where I am and judging by her TL she has spent the last hour badgering Robbie Thompson and Adam Glass, and retweeting hate to them. As well as bitching about the person who runs this forum.
What you call “retweeting hate”, others call retweeting about how much fans like Sam’n’Dean scenes and how the brothers are the core of SPN.
And, seriously, having civil conversations with the writers (guess you have missed a few interesting ones) doesn’t equal constantly starting campains to make a ship happen or saying things like “Wincest is disgusting, why is it allowed to be in a poll.” Of course, that’s not hate at all.
There is nothing wrong with hating the idea of incest. People talk about open mindedness and tolerance like they are always good things but they’re not. It’s our responsibility to NOT tolerate some behaviors. Incest is just one of a few I can think of. Certain behaviors with children are others.
[quote]People talk about open mindedness and tolerance like they are always good things but they’re not. It’s our responsibility to NOT tolerate some behaviors. Incest is just one of a few I can think of.[/quote]
Does this mean that you support bashing Wincest on a public forum like #Dana talked about? If this is the case, your attitude about how to treat certain fans in this wonderful fandom is very disappointing to me.
I understand having a natural aversion to incest – most of us have it. I know I do – aversion to incest is bred very deeply into us by society, and may even be an inherent part of our biology on some level. We reject incest as a biological imperative – it’s just genetically a bad idea to inbreed, as through several generations, it will breed in the weaker parts of your family’s genetics and make your entire line more susceptible to being wiped out by a single illness.
However, your argument, which seems to indicate that we should hate Wincest and slam fans who like it, is disparaging. Sam and Dean aren’t real and Wincest fans aren’t evangelizing incest as a way of life. They are merely taking their favorite fictional characters and going their own creative way in which they would like to see that love expressed in fan fiction, fan art, or whatever have you. Supporting Wincest and believing that incest in general should be embraced and not one and the same thing.
So, why should anyone rain on another fan’s party when their having a good time with the show in their own way? I think we should all be at the very least tolerant of the different tastes that exist within the fandom. When I say “tolerant,” I don’t mean that you should run out and start reading Wincest. You can roll your eyes and say, “ugh” while sitting in your living room whenever Wincest enters a conversation. But, for the love of Chuck, don’t post things like “Wincest is disgusting, why is it even allowed on a poll.” Supernatural, in my opinion at least, still for the most part has a wonderful fan base. And we’re all fans, so we should respect each other based on that fact alone, don’t you think?
I thought you guys might like to see the terrible hate I’ve been badgering the writers with…I have to say, I’m especially ashamed of myself for the Hawaiian shirt references. That was really just uncalled for.
Kelios ?@kelios 4h
I agree! RT @WinchestersJ2 @rthompson1138 @AdamGlass44 Any time the brothers are together it’s great! Can’t wait to see this one 😀
Kelios ?@kelios 5h
@adamwvfx @MadisonBlaine95 @AdamGlass44 I can’t wait! I LOVE spending Wed nights with Sam and Dean!
Kelios ?@kelios 8h
RT @WinchestersJ2 @rthompson1138 @shadowhund We do too, Robbie – Sam & Dean, Jared & Jensen are the heart of SPN #fromthebeginning 🙂
Kelios ?@kelios 8h
RT @Geordiegirl1967 @rthompson1138 Thx.Most fans happy w/whatever writers give us so long as D&S bond remains strong, top writing priority.
Kelios ?@kelios 4h
@rthompson1138 So when are Sam and Dean going to visit some of these AUs? J2 have said more than once they’d like to visit Hawaii 😉
Kelios ?@kelios 3h
@AmyinSydney @rthompson1138 And we know that Dean can make pretty much anything look good!
Kelios ?@kelios 4h
@AmyinSydney @rthompson1138 Obviously 😉 I wonder what Dean thinks of Hawaiian shirts?
Kelios ?@kelios 4h
RT @padakitty @StoryAddict69 @NovembersGuest @rthompson1138 I was ok with Cas in S.5, but since S.7 it’s about upping Dean’s emo, not char.
I’m with you Maria S.
Stating an opinion is fine and everyone is entitled to do that, but the hate stuff is nauseating and some of the worst offenders always have what they feel is a reasonable way to express themselves. To me it gets unbearably repetitive and I believe I have the right to MY opionion of THEM! And that is a pretty low one! I got so tired of the constant repetitive complaints, most of which were not the opinions of the majority enjoying this beloved show, that I memorized their logins and just ignored their posts. That makes my surfing so much more pleasant. They become a clique and constantly answer each other back and forth with their negativity at the fore. Better to ignore than rise your blood pressure. :-*
As for the disgusting comments re girlfriends, wives and babies of the actors, dare I say those making those comments are seriously disturbed and would hope someone is watching them at all times. 😡 😡
ADMIN WARNING!
Maria S, please watch your tone. You are very close to crossing the line into outright attack here, so please tone it down. We’re all for discussion but not attack.
hating on Gen a Danneel is awful, also last time I checked someone was hating on little baby Ackles saying she should be dead and if not make her die… come on we’re talking abt a little baby that isn’t even here yet and people already hating on her??!! what the heck has happened with some fans?
[quote]little baby Ackles saying she should be dead and if not make her die[/quote]This is really disturbing 😡
This happened with Gen and little Thomas too, when a crazy fan said she wished Gen and the baby would die in childbirth! Just sick.
That is beyond disturbing. What kind of sick person says something like that? No wondering the J’s have a bodyguard. There are some seriously awful people out there. That makes me a little heartsick reading it.
Anything hateful or rude makes me SO embarassed to see. It reflects badly on ALL of us, imho. Anything that doesnt pass the golden rule should be considered shameful behavior. I wish there was some way to have a blacklist of offensive fans whom we could collectively shun out of fandom. 🙁
Couldn’t have said this better myself…
Ditto!!!
Well said!
I’m sorry these things have been happening. I had no idea, I love the show and the people involved and I mostly just read the various reviews to see how other people interpret the things in a show I love. Maybe the whole winning the PCA got some people all wound up and giddy and they got all carried away. The points here are well made, let’s all take a breath and remember why we were drawn to this show in the first place. And yes, it is a show, the characters aren’t real, it is entertainment. Embrace that entertainment, get all involved in the story, and have fun with it! Lots of life is grim, this is a wonderful escape.
I agree with your article that some fan behaviour is getting way out of hand. I love discussing the show with people, but I really dislike the threats to other people or the actors and their family. The I hate Misha day is really stupid. He is a good man who does good things. There is one girl out there that is always insulting Jared for no reason, other then she might not like him or his acting. I don’t like everyone’s acting, but I don’t go around publicly attacking them at every turn either. As inappropriate questions, they happen at every con and they don’t really bother me in the end. Good article.
[quote]I really dislike the threats to other people or the actors and their family. The I hate Misha day is really stupid. He is a good man who does good things.[/quote]
I have a question about this “I hate Misha day” – I heard that Westboro Baptist Church thinks Misha is the anti-christ??? And a lot of the hate directed at Misha appears to stem from some of his lifestyle choices and the fact that, like Castiel, he is “utterly indifferent to sexual orientation.” How much of this “I Hate Misha Day” actually stems from fans who cannot separate the actor from his Castiel character and how much of it is just bashing different sexualities?
Westboro Baptist Church? That actually makes total sense. Those people left reality behind long ago. Anyone who pickets the funerals of people who died for their country and threatened to picket the Newtown funerals, is beyond rational thought.
Adam Hamilton, a very wise preacher in the this area. Once said (if I remember correctly) that 200 years from now when people are looking at the news might think that Fred Phelps is representative of Christians because he is always in the press when he does these awful things. But in reality he has like 50 members most of them family. Whereas Adam Hamilton has one of the largest congregation in the country and gave a speech at the inauguration this year, rarely makes headlines because he doesn’t seek out the attention.
I’m guessing this fandom is the same. There are a handful of people who make a lot of noise saying really horrible things.
Not that there aren’t other people who definitely overstep sometimes, but stuff like wishing people dead, especially children, is not coming from the vast majority of the fandom, IMO.
I fell out of super love with the fandom about a year ago. Some random website had a contest. You had to post comments and such about your favorite shows. The US Being Human was up against Supernatural. As a fan of both shows I was torn already. After reading the comments on the SPN section I was embarrassed. People got really mean. I still love SPN. I’ve been to several cons and have watched since day 1. I haven’t paid much attention since then to the fandom. I thought I needed to take a break from it all. I hope this all smooths out. I’d hate for them to stop making this fabulous show because of being hassled.
Personally, I have to draw the line at getting into the actors’ personal lives. I’ve seen a lot of actual, genuine hate spewed at the very people who work hard to create the show we all claim to love so much. And when that vitriol bleeds into fans sending vicious tweets to the cast/crew and affiliates with Twitter accounts (namely Genevieve, Jared, Misha, and Danneel)? That’s just disgustingly wrong.
There was one instance where a fan sent several tweets that wished death on both Genevieve and her baby. In what situation would someone think that’s acceptable? You’ve crossed the line so much that you can’t even [i]see [/i] the line anymore, bud.
It doesn’t matter how much you’re dissatisfied with how things are going on the show – you don’t attack the actors or their families. They’re human, and if you want them to continue to make the show, leave them alone to do their job in peace.
I’m not saying you can’t calmly discuss things with other fans, or bring things up at conventions. Obviously it’s an open forum and you’re allowed to talk about what does or doesn’t make you happy. In fact, it would be better if everyone in this fandom was open to calmly talking about things – maybe then the bitter feelings wouldn’t spread into the cons or where they’re not appropriate.
I agree. Anyone who feels they need to wish death on someone they don’t even know is sad and unbelievable. If you call yourself a fan, I don’t think that means you need to turn into an insane psycho freak.
I’d love someone to do a serious study on fandom and those types of people who ‘bring the hate’. Would the study show a majority who would describe themselves as isolated, unhappy, disallusioned, powerless? I suspect so. Does lashing out at strangers from the relative haven of anonymity make them feel better? Probably. But it’s better than buying a gun, I guess.
[quote]I’d love someone to do a serious study on fandom and those types of people who ‘bring the hate’. Would the study show a majority who would describe themselves as isolated, unhappy, disallusioned, powerless? I suspect so. Does lashing out at strangers from the relative haven of anonymity make them feel better? Probably. But it’s better than buying a gun, I guess.[/quote]
Good point. I’m so turned off by all the fandom bickerings, but yeah, I suppose I’d rather them bicker than buy a gun 😀
It’s not just the bad behavior that is getting to me. I’m sick of alot of the good stuff, which is done to the point I can hardly stand what I used to enjoy. Like every post or comment or thought is obssessive on certain ships, or characters, or ideas – all tweeted or posted to writers, tptb, crew, other fans – to the point they make other fans so angry, they feel the need to behave appallingly in answer.
Tone it down please. Not just the nastiness, but the constant omnipresent obsessive love too, please? hen maybe the action > reaction cycle can finally break?
Also, didn’t fans counter with an I love Misha day when this happened before last season?
A bit of gratitude for what we do have would be nice. And less vomitting at the mouth. There are no internal censors anymore, let alone manners.
I saw a post sort of like this going around tumblr the other day.
But the sad thing was that they practically categorized the whole fandom in doing this. They didnt even state, its the dumb part of the fandom, they just said “The Supernatural Fandom” as if every single one sends hate. And no, its not. I for one have never sent nor wished anything bad for the cast or their wives.
And what is more disgusting and unnerving, is that they have day not only for Misha, but for his wife Vicki. Lets not forget also about Gen and Danneel.
What kind of fan could actually hate someone that makes your favorite actor, or just an actor you admire, happy?
Because of those “fans” the good side of the fandom gets blamed, they dont even try and separate the fandom.
And these people need help.
Since it’s relevant, I’m just going to leave it here to let people know. Over on tumblr, a few people are working on ProjectSPNApologize. From their about page…
“Project SPN Apologize was founded early one morning when Supernatural super-fan Dani stumbled across this post while blogging in bed. After she finished reading it, she was so angry she was shaking. How could fans treat such wonderful people in such horrible ways? Did they not realize what they were doing was harassment? Worse, did they not care? So she did a little research and posted a call to arms- to apologize to the cast and let them know how much they were appreciated, and to take the first step in working towards understanding of common terms for questions – and went to sleep with a vague hope that maybe a few other people would help her out.
Within 24 hours the Project had over 200 supporters, an email address box with several submissions, an entire social media platform, and a three person team working in the background to make it a success.
This is a two part movement. This is also a neutral project, and doesn’t takes sides with ships or meta-arguments. Click here for more information about our stance on shipping.
The first part is a compilation of notes and letters from YOU GUYS, the fans, telling the cast and crew how much you love them and why. The second part is a guide to the fandom, explaining terms we use and including art, meta, and fiction, among other things.
So, from the PSPNA team to you, thank you so much for your support!”
So yeah, if you wanna go check them out or lend a hand, it could make a difference.
If they have an organized project like that, I’m more than willing to give them some promotional space on our Fandom page. Someone from there just needs to send us a message through “Contact Us.”
Thanks for letting us know that exists.
This is wonderful. Thank you!
I think online conversations are getting much more toxic all around. Politically it’s a free-for-all on some blogs! We as a society are forgetting that these are real people we talk about and talk to.
I think you nailed it when you brought up that some feel that the show “owes” them something. Supernatural has been my reprieve from my real life crap, I don’t want it ruined by someone and I certainly wouldn’t want to ruin it for them.
Well, I’ll take the middle line again. I’ve some ghastly stuff tweeted to and about actors that is simply unacceptable, period. Hateful threats, disgusting putdowns, usually to do with supporting a ship against other ships and transferred on to the actors. That’s when people really need to step back and realize this is just a TV show.
However, I’ve also seen opinions called “hate” when it’s just expressing a different opinion about the show. And I wish very much the writers were not on twitter, because of course they are going to get opinions tweeted to them and of course some of them will be passionate. There’s no excuse for being rude. But expressing why someone dislikes a story line is not rude in itself and if writers make themselves available, they will get a mixture of feedback and I assume that’s why they all made their twitter entrance very publicly in the fandom.
TPTB and Misha certainly did not discourage fans from getting involved in story lines when they tweeted about the feather campaign and once you open that door, it remains open. It’s a cute campaign for some fans and not at all cute for others, and so will any other campaigns fans come up with. People like different things in the show. That said, the Misha day thing was simply rude and hopefully backfired on the orchestrators.
About the cons, again, people should always be polite. But when someone ends up publicly with foot in mouth disease because they are nervous and expressed themselves poorly, it helps to remember most people do not go up with ill will and most of us have had moments in public that didn’t go well. Some of the over the top response in fandom to the last foot in mouth comment at a con was worse than the question.
I too wish that the writers and others would lock down their Twitter accounts. It seems to have made the fandom even more vocal. Now some people are convinced that if they can get the writers to hear them by an extreme number of posts with hyperbolic language then they will be rewarded by getting what they want. That makes the other side determined to get their demands heard to causing even more extreme posting. It’s a vicious cycle.
Gerry, I signed up for several of the writers twitter accounts and after the last month I have to say I’m starting to agree with you. Or maybe the info should just go one why and they should block responses. Because Loflin did a nice thing one day about how Garth came to be and then DJ Qualls followed it with more info on his own and I really enjoyed that. But I think if the writers want feedback they should choose a different method, because I got the impression some fans were being really rude after several of the episodes. I don’t really like a few fans representing the whole fandom.
Also when DJ Qualls gave his part, he talked about being embraced by the fandom at the start, but getting a few really mean comments when his character began taking on Bobby’s role. And he said Jared told him “Welcome to Supernatural. We get both extremes.”
Oops. First line should read: “I’ve seen some ghastly stuff . . . “
I ranted further up and I apologize. But as a Casfan I’ve had enough of being told I don’t matter and that my favorite character “isn’t a part of Supernatural” when yes he is, and has been for five seasons of the show. I’m tired of looking at the producers’ and writers’ twitter timelines and seeing Cas and Misha hate tweeted to them (and to see one of the fans who does that [i]constantly[/i] posting here and complaining about how fandom has made [i]her[/i] feel stalked and harassed is just the last straw). I’m tired of having my emotional and financial investment (because I buy the books, DVDs and con tickets too) downgraded because I’m a Casfan. I’m tired of seeing any positive development for my favorite in this show dismissed as “fanservice.”
I’m sorry, I’m a little passionate about this.
Maybe I’m lucky so far because I’ve said on numerous posts I’m a Casfan (although I acknowledge that the show could go on without him even though I would be sad) and no ones berated me for it … yet. I don’t care if someone’s a Samfan or Deanfan so it’s wrong to be told you can’t be a Casfan or you’re not a real fan.
Sorry to hear people have said that to you … but I’m fairly certain we’re not the only ones, and I’m sure that most of the fans of the boys don’t really care that we are Casfans, just the ones that refuse to accept he’s grown to be an important piece of the show.
The fringe fan crazies are more than annoying, they can and have been dangerous. Thankfully rare. The general fandom is such a wide spectrum. I don’t know the statistics but I would guess most are like us here, passionate fans of the show with many varied viewpoints. Emotions run high and I’ve noticed that sometimes the tenor of the comments can fall into a sort of negitivity that is contagious. I don’t mean having an opinion that is contrary to others but an obsessiveness that feeds on itself on occasion. I personally love some of the long drawn out debates that go on here. I could and have read those for hours. As long as there is civility but when things gets snide or disrespectful then it crosses the line IMO. I always try and treat people the way I would want to be treated and if I find myself getting frustrated, time for a break. It is just not worth it. And in the grand scheme not that important.
Just to add- the personal lives of actors are just that and should be off limits. Anything beyond what they deem to share with us is plain and simply none of our business. I particularly think the actors career choices should not be constantly questioned. They are happy in their work and personal lives, lets leave that out of the debate. Sorry, a little ranty 😮
Leah, I totally agree. I think the actors private lives should be strictly off limits, accept what tidbits they choose to share with us.
Yes!! Agra Priscilla
The fact that we are even discussing this makes me very sad for the cast & crew & entire creative team who give their all to bring us this amazing show! I’m even sadder when I hear about ANY fan disrespecting the wives or other actors, let alone reacting to them with outright hate.
The Js and everyone else involved with the show bless us with their presence at Cons and in interviews and all of that is extra as far as I am concerned, time away from their families that they give us because they care and they want to share this experience with us. We should always be thankful and respectful in return.
I’ll never forget the first Con where Jensen mentioned Danneel and there was a huge positive response and he looked relieved and happy. And he should be happy to share his love for a woman that makes him so happy, that is soon going to be the mother of his child! Same with Gen and Jared! We should embrace the wives, not try to make their lives and the lives of their husbands miserable! I don’t even understand that mentality. I want nothing more than for Jensen & Jared to be diliriously in love and happy in their personal lives! They give us such happiness as Sam and Dean, why wouldn’t we want to see them insanely happy too?
As far as turmoil in the fandom, the complaining is the reason I no longer participate in most forums. I have surrendered the joy of discussing the show in an open forum because it became too disturbing to constantly be exposed to all the negativity and single-minded dictates of how THEY wanted the show to be run. Most of my friends have also abandoned the forums.
The most disturbing thing is, all the happy viewers (not necessarily ecstatic about all elements, but happy to have the show and the story the writers are presenting) have left and now, when I do check back to see how the forums are going, they are a wasteland with only the complainers and a few mods who insistently argue that everyone is allowed to voice their thoughts…even if those rabid fans are toxic to the general health of the fandom and have driven away all the less radical posters.
I don’t understand why you would expend so much energy towards hate. If the show makes you that miserable, then maybe you should find something you like better. And I’ve heard all the responses back to that, my point being, aren’t I as entitled to be happy? Constantly hearing the negative sucks my joy, hence I left the forums and try to seclude myself…only discussing the show with others who love the show, since nothing else was going to happen.
It saddens me to see fans who were happy be sucked down into the pit of despair of discontent simply because the loudness of the negativiy overwhelms them. I’ve had to unfollow people I used to love to discuss Show with simply because they started down that road of trying to dictate and complain on certain elements.
I never want the writers or PTB to bend to the will of the complainers and that is what I most fear, because that vocal minority are feeling empowered and it just ratchets up their vociferous complaints and excessive demands.
I think we have a truly amazing show and awesome fans, I just wish we got as much attention for that as we get for being ‘obsessive’ and demanding.
I’ll admit to being obessive…but hopefully in the good, I LOVE MY SHOW way!
B.J.
BJ,
Your words couldn’t be more true, and so perfect. I remember you from back in the SNTV days, when I first started digging into the fandom.
I’ve spent a week seeing some very bad things in this fandom. You’re right, it’s so disheartening. When I started this site, it was a forum where we could share our likes and dislikes, but with harmony and accord. There were no poisonous attitudes, over consuming negativity, constant complaints, just good spirited debate and analysis. We used to be known as a place people could come to share their love of this show, without bitterness, but yet still engage in thoughtful discussions. We were a family, a happy family.
Most of out writing team has stopped commenting here, because it’s not the place it used to be. I’ve had good writers, loyal commenters, great fans just leave because they couldn’t stand the negativity anymore. I’ve got a couple of old writers starting over with new shows at TV For The Rest of Us, because Supernatural got too consuming.
Heck, it’s okay if a certain episode causes a massive outrage (like the recent Man’s Best Friends With Benefits) but day after day of unwarranted countless griping? It’s just killing me anymore.
I wanted to create a place where all opinions were welcome, but honestly didn’t think that the bitter aspects of the fandom would get so controlling and kill everything I strived to promote. I relied on common sense, and perhaps I put too much faith into it. I don’t expect people to be cheerleaders. Heck, I’m not a cheerleader. I tell it like it is. I don’t like seeing excessive praise anymore than biting overnegativity. But come on, where is the simple love?
I’ve got a bunch of people over at my review thread shouting me down right now just because I got fed up with all the whining and said so. Now they’re trying to make me look like the bitch. I don’t care. It stopped being a good spirited, open discussion the second the same argument that’s littered this site for a year was uttered again. For the 100,000 time. Now they’re accusing ME of being rude. Ugh.
I’m thrilled your obsessive ways, and you so remind me of what once was good. I’ve put countless hours into this site, making it a full time job with practically no pay, but I did it because I love the show and I love the fans. Most of them. Now I’m wondering if it’s all for good anymore. Ah, I know it is. I started off with the philosophy that if I made one person happy, then it’s all good. I still believe that, even if there are 80 miserable people to go with that one.
I’m taking the next week off. I’m going to California and do coverage at WonderCon for TV For The Rest of Us. I’m going to meet actors and producers from other shows, including Revolution, which is run by Eric Kripke, another person who couldn’t take this fandom’s crap anymore and went onto something else. Another is Arrow, where everything is still young and positive.
Thank you for your words. I love my show too.
Alice
Alice, I think you do a tremendous service here in allowing fans to discuss the show. I too first came to know you at SNtv and then later here on your site. I don’t visit often enough because I avoid most forums now, but if I were to post more, it would be here. I’ve always found your articles and reviews to be honest and fair and running this site shows your love for the show! Thank you!
Supernatural is my first fandom and will probably be my last! I don’t think I want to go through this again! I’ll definitely do whatever I need to do to avoid the lows! When Supernatural first started I was so thrilled to have this amazing show and to see Jensen (who I was a fan of since Dark Angel) finally have a role worthy of his talent. Discussing the show and knowing it had this worldwide impact was invigorating and so joyful in the beginning. To think it has spiraled downward into the negativity we have today breaks my heart.
I adamantly refuse to search on Twitter for hashtags and read that others are unhappy or sniping about this or that. Like many, I have enough grief and trials in RL and Supernatural is a welcome escape. I fully intend on enjoying all the seasons they give us. I love discussion and I don’t have a problem with differing views, but when you’ve been around long enough, you hear the same exact complaints only with different characters as the wronged. And it often seems like regardless of what the writers do, they can’t win with some.
I think our writers and entire creative team are pretty damn talented and I’ll be here to take whatever ride they want to take us on. And if anyone makes their lives miserable or makes them feel bad about what they are doing, then that just makes me more defensive because that is just simply wrong. Writing is hard, maintaining fresh ideas is damn near impossible and yet they still surprise and delight me.
So I’m with you, let’s just love our show and enjoy what the writers give us. And be grateful that Jensen and Jared love their characters and the show enough to tolerate the fans when they go beyond that line. I most hope they realize it is a very small minority, who hopefully know not how they come across.
B.J.
Oh Alice, no! Don’t do it to me! I found this site only several weeks ago and have been enjoying it tremendously since – not only the reviews that are always so well thought and professional, but also the fans’ comments. You guys, from my perspective, are the elite of the fandom, you are really able to write something that sounds analytical, insightful, emotional and still tolerant. Thank you very much, Alice, for your exceptionally good quality site, and thank you, fans, for all happy hours I spend reading your comments. I so hope it will never end.
I agree with novichevich elena, I usually love the discussions here, it’s the only place where we can have real good ones. Thank you, Alice, and please don’t give up on us yet! 😉
Hi Alice,
I’ve been on your site for a long time, possibly right from the beginning, lurked for a while, and I do admit, I’ve seen the changes, but it’s still the only site I visit and comment on regularly, and I still consider it an oasis in what can be, at times, quite the vicious fandom.
Anyway, I might comment further on this issue later, but I just want to say thank you for all your hard work.
I too love my show. Very, very much.
Alice… I really love this site and all the writers & really appreciate the work you all do. I’m also a writer & have my own blog (not SPN related) where I post only once a week. Even that is hard to maintain (at times), especially because I don’t get any income from it. But my blog is something I’m passionate about so I do it.
It is really easy for me to see how passionate you are about TWFB and I can’t begin to imagine how many hours you put in here. When I get a bit frustrated by the comments here, I just skip over them, so I certainly don’t envy you having to read them all.
But please don’t feel discouraged. I feel certain that your work is appreciated by the vast majority of people who visit/comment here. It certainly is by me 🙂
Not only do some fans have the “you owe me” mentality towards the show, but they get this “owning” mentality on other people’s blogs/pages. I’ve always considered the page to belong to the people who created it and therefor call the shots. If you don’t agree, create your own or find another place that matches your needs! I hope bloggers don’t back down from asking people to stop behaving badly on their own blogs/pages, otherwise the party-poopers won’t know their behavior isn’t welcome.
Hi Alice, I missed this post before and I wanted to say that I am so sorry that things have gotten like this. I think you have the patience of a saint with us and personally I appreciate what you do.
I think you usually only step in when things get out of hand and I think you are very balanced and fair about it. I have never considered anything you have posted to be rude and I certainly don’t think you are being bitchy. It is the (very minimal) rules that you have placed on posting which have allowed this site to be a place where people can put forward their opinions without worry. Sometimes people take advantage of that easygoing system (perhaps unintentionally, I can’t comment on that) and that is a shame.
As a new fan I went from ‘wow is this show just something I love?’, to ‘oh there are lots of other people and a non-intimidating site to post on’, to ‘maybe I shouldn’t take all this so seriously’ in the space of 12 months, which is somewhat of a record for me.
I love your site, I love the energy and enthusiasm you put into it, I love how you have tried all sorts of tactful ways over the past few months to try to bring us back from ‘obsession’ to ‘love for the show’. I think you succeeded pretty well, in some cases against some pretty stiff opposition, and it was all done with the best possible humour.
I am still in the category of ‘love for the show’ and am trying to work on not falling too deeply into the ‘obsession’ mindset.
I love that I have made a whole bunch of friends on this site which is not something I ever saw myself doing on the internet!
Please enjoy your break and come back to us feeling better 😀 We do appreciate you and all the other moderators!
Alice, I hate to read of your disappointment. But remember, the moaners and whiners, although posting continually over and over, are definitely the minority. Just look at the polls you have on the site.
I’ve loved your site since I first discovered it. It is the best site for us folks who love our show and are grateful to all the cast and crew for giving their all to it for us.
The negative posters never recognize themselves but feel their right to continually whine is a God given right! So it is, but attempting to get others into their frame of mind, not so much. Why are they even watching? They should move on to something they approve of! I’m not talking about criticism of a particular episode, but the constant ridiculous complaints, such as “the writers are trying to ruin Sam” or “the show is trying to replace Sam with Cas, or Benny, or Garth” or whoever is there at the time. What utter and complete NONSENSE! Yet a few, always the same, posters continually make those claims. They began to make me sick, and seeing their logins give me nausea automatically. A good thing really, as I know right away to ignore their posts. 😛
Don’t let these few spoil your enthusiasm for your wonderful site, Alice. You scare me a bit thinking maybe they will make you give it up. Where would we go then?
Don’t let them win on this site!!
I love this show like no other ever and am so grateful to the wonderful actors and crew and creators and I send them my best wishes and love for them and their wonderful families.
Those whiners have called me a ‘Pollyanna’. Thank you. Better to be that than a constant whining moaner.
Chin up Alice! You are NOT alone!
Dear Alice, Your writing expressed so much pain. It brought tears to my eyes. I am so sorry you are feeling so low.
I have watched SPN since S1 ep1. I joined this site just about 3 months ago. I LOVE IT! You are amazing and do great work. The site is wonderful. Believe me, you have made many more than one person happy.
I am not articulate like a lot of the people that post here, but I am very sincere when I tell you that even though I have never met you, I love you. This site shines with the goodness that is you. Please stay with us – the “good majority.”
Bjxmas, just so you know, yours is the last post on this thread that I will be reading. I don’t usually read the “Let’s Discuss” posts because I’m always afraid of what I’ll find there. And sure enough, this one has left me very bummed out. 🙁 I think that an actor’s personal life is just that, personal, not up for discussion anywhere. I stopped watching shows like ET and Access Hollywood and such because they were delving too much into people’s personal lives. I just can’t stomach that someone has “created” a “I Hate Misha Collins Day”!!! WTF? 😕 Sorry, just, I’m a little pissed off right now. Discussing an episode or even hating on an episode or a [i]character[/i] is one thing, but to go after the person that plays that character? Just, no.
Alice, I hope you do get the URL for the SPN apology, I will definitely be writing on that one. 🙂 Okay, I feel better now, going to my happy SPN place. 😉
Bear with me, but the phenomena of hearing lots of complaints and less of the positive feedback reminds me a lot of many of the customer service jobs I’ve had. When I worked at Starbucks for instance, most people came up, got their drinks and left happy with the exact drink they wanted and didn’t say anything about being happy about their drink. A few did, sometimes I’d get the “oh good, I love it when you make my drink, you do the best mochas” but not often. But if you made a mistake or they really wanted more chocolate or whatever you heard it loud and clear and there was no mistaking it.
They weren’t all wrong and sometimes they just had different expectations but every once in a while one or two would just get nasty and it was uncalled for. Most were just expressing their views and as it was a coffee shop and not a tv show I could fix it for them.
That being said, there are certain people, who will remain nameless because I’m not calling them out, that I have learned to just skip over their comments because they just go a bit too far for my liking.
dashnjo, I agree with you here. I work in an industry that requires my job performance to regularly be reviewed and rated, usually by near strangers (I must be nuts!) and I know for a fact that people are far more likely to complain about things they don’t like, rather than compliment you on things they do like.
It still hurts though, when people complain, especially when they do it in a less than kind way, and its even worse when you think you’ve done, or are doing a good job. Not many people know how to tell someone they don’t like something in a constructive manner, and I think it’s unfortunately worse on the Internet where there is that opportunity for anonymity, and less responsibility for what you say and how you say it.
Thank you for posting this article.
I always try to respect other opinions on the show. I’ve been enjoying this season immensely, but I never ever want those that aren’t to feel “bad” or “wrong” for not doing so. We all watch and experience the show in our own ways.
I think, sometimes, the uber duber weird off the wall hate pages and campaigns aren’t necessarily done by “fans,” but by trolls that like to stir the pot up. That’s not for all cases of course, but I think the number of accounts set up to hate one actor or a spouse or anyone associated with the show are there to get attention.
I also think they know that we’ll give that to them. We’ll tweet their name or spread their tumblr all in the efforts of “block so and so. They hate such and such” and next thing you know there’s more people clicking on that person’s page or twitter feed. That’s what they WANT. Just tell Clif once, back away, and don’t say anything again.
As for some of the behavior at Cons, considering that they can’t truly control each and every fan that gets up to ask a question, it’s hard to stop some of them. I’d like to think that most people who go to these things are fans and as such would approach them with respect, but that’s not always the case.
I think one of the only ways we can do something about this type of behavior is to have each of us lead by example. Be polite and friendly. Remember that there is a person on the other side of that handle and treat them as you would if you were talking to them in person. It’s simple common courtesy and common sense. I’d like to think that those out there that try to stir the pot then will get bored and move on.
But that’s just my thoughts on the topic. It is a worthy one to talk about, and yes, while this show is near and dear my heart and means oh so much to me, it’s still a TV Show and it’s not worth fighting or “hating” others that don’t agree exactly with me. It’s supposed to be fun. Let’s try to remember that.
Well, part of the problem is how easy it is to make your voice heard in this day and age. It is all so FAST!! No impulse control. Before anyone could stop and think better of it; their comments are out there. Also, I mean no offense; but young people on all these social media sites. No one monitoring anything they say or do. I have read some very disturbing comments on Tumblr. The main problem is, that no matter how small, anyone’s voice can become very loud with the internet.
The people getting these comments, etc, should just ignore them. Take them for what they are and move on. There are millions of true fans (some who probably never comment ANYWHERE!) who love the show and ALL the cast and crew.
As far as the cons go, well maybe Creation staff could pay more attention to that kind of behavior, instead of worrying about people filming
The thing about fandom is there’s two aspects: the real life actors and people who make the show; and then there’s character, plot, effects,themes, etc. — and the ‘line’ isn’t really in the same place for both.
With regard to the real people involved in the Show – any ‘hate’ directed toward them or their family has crossed the line – not with regard to fandom, but with regard to basic decent human behavior. Tweeting vile things to Gen or Jared or Danneel or ANYONE associated with the show and/or to other fans is uncalled for and is simply bad behavior. Period.
You don’t have to love ’em, they’re in a business where they need to take criticism OF THEIR WORK in stride but death wishes on their families? Are so far out of line that I can’t even begin to understand where that even comes from — and some of the people who spew this stuff honestly think that they are fans. I find that just a little bit scary.
The other part of fandom — the characters, plot and so on — everybody needs to have their big girl pants on and realize that for every strongly held opinion, there is an opposite equally strongly held opinion. ‘Hate’ for a fictional character doesn’t cross any lines any more than ‘love’ for a fictional character does. However,the whole thing about these polar opposite opinions is that it seems that all are very interested in having people choose sides in these arguments — despite all protests that ‘everyone is entitled to their opinion’ and to me, that is getting a bit tiresome and it does drain some of the joy out of fandom.
For me anyway.
Back when I was a new Supernatural fan I spent a lot of time commenting on various sites, but about this time last year, I became so sick of the negativity that I stopped. I occasionally comment here on WFB because I feel safer here than anywhere else.
It’s great when we can all share our opinion but the one thing that really gripes me is the way that some people attempt to speak for the entire fandom. There are as many different opinions as there are fans.
I abhor Wincest. Incest is never acceptable to me, and sticking a “W” in front doesn’t make it suddenly ok. I’ve had to block a number of people due to hateful reactions to my opinion.
This fandom is capable of achieving so much good, and I’ve made life-long friends, but I occasionally find it incredibly scary, and somewhat embarrassing, too.
Since I’ve stopped reading comments, my enjoyment of the show has improved greatly. I’m loving season 8 (in general) so now I stay in my “happy bubble” on twitter, and let the bull-s**t go “over my head, not up my nose” as we say in New Zealand. 🙂
I want to say thank you for addressing the issue. As a newer fan to this whole phenomenon (only been watching about a year) I have been through a whirlwind of emotions in a year’s time.
I was so excited when my friend told me about this site. I loved reading the reviews and in depth analysis of the show, it’s characters and all that goes along with the show. At first I really enjoyed the comments. After a few months I even made a few comments.
And since I am newer I am unable to judge if there have been times of ups and downs in negativity before. Or, maybe it’s always been there, I wouldn’t know. I can only base my opinion on the last year. But I have stopped reading the comments on many of the threads. And I have stopped notifications for the most part. Too many times I went from bliss to sadness reading some of the comments. Maybe I am just a naive fan because this is the first time I have ever delved into fandom. Or, maybe I’m a polyanna at heart and want everyone to get along because I thought the common thread was pure enjoyment of this incredible show/cast/crew.
I also joined Twitter so as not to miss any news flash items about the show, but I have quickly discovered there are some nasty, profane things on that social site being shared by our shows fans. Again, I’m probably just old and naive here!
Again, love the reviews you do ladies and I will continue to read them and I hope your comments will help address some of the inappropriateness out there that is truly embarassing. I was so proud of it all at first and now have to admit I am tentative to tell some newer fans I brought in about these sites, even this wonderful site for fear they will be offended.
Carry on….. and be at peace. Joy and blessings to all.
The thing about this sort of fandom reaction, is that it isn’t just one or two sites, or one or two shows, or one or two actors. It’s everwhere. What is it with people these days. there is no common decency any more. I’ve been bagged out on twitter for daring to have an open conversation on a facebook group that I started about a band’s newest album, I’ve seen twitter comments threatening legal action against an actress in another show I watch because she won’t leave the show to keep some creepy fan happy. I no longer go on the fan board for my favourite band because the venom that is spewed on there by fellow fans is just disgusting. I don’t ever want to meet in real life people who threaten a woman or child they have never met with death, just because they are the family of a tv star. These people aren’t fan in any sense of the word, they are trolls thru and thru. I’ve only just found this site, and I love the review, I’m so jealous of the con posts, I am now saddened to see that the same vitrol is spewing out of peoples keyboards here as well. Honestly, if this is what not smacking our children is leading to then I’m going home to give mine a good whallop before he turns into a spoilt whiney self obsessed PITA, because that is what I see in people who carry on like this.
having said that, I love this show, I love the characters and I love that we have it for so long. Just be happy with what we have and don’t ruin it for anyone else.
Hi sharlow, I have been visiting and commenting for a couple of years now and I can assure you that the vast majority of posters here are considerate and respectful of each other and the site. There are disagreements and sometimes people lose their temper but even that is fairly rare. I can say that vitriol is almost never spewed here. First of all it would never be allowed. Second almost all of the people who post here are not the type to spew hate at all! Thirdly if for some reason the moderators don’t catch it, another poster will report them and it will be nipped in the bud. This is how I view it. 🙂
I’m a SamNDean fan all the way and I feel like ‘we’ are the ones who get hated on so much by Castiel/Destiel fans. I state an opinion that I don’t care for Castiel and think that character is long overdue to vacate the Winchester’s world, I see a lot of hate towards that and get called a ‘Cas Hater’ as do others who say they don’t like Castiel.
A lot of the Twitter crew (JIM MICHAELS ESPECIALLY) favors Castiel tweets and blocks anyone who casually mentions not liking that character. A lot of the Destiel fans are the loudest (and IMO the most annoying) trying to get their voices heard.
I actually wish many of the SPN would get off of Twitter. They seem to flame some of the fires by insinuting themselves into the fandom.
Alice,
This site is still better than the others even with the opinions that get spewed. Please don’t ever go away. It’s our haven.
I was talking to my husband the other day about this very subject. Not just SPN, but the internet in general. I was wondering if the anonimity of it has brought out the worst in people , or if there really has always been such ugliness and we were just not subjected to it because social media wasn’t around. Maybe all the hate was written in letters?
I too, wondered if these disturbed people were sitting in some dark room at their computer like the Unabomber or if it’s that nice lady who serves coffee at church? It’s like having an anonmous place to vent our frustration at others has brought out the crazy in everybody.
I think the first step in that would be to stop hateful communities, such as spn gossip that approve of spiteful behaviour, like sending death threats to Danneel and Genevieve, or tweeting writers and producers to get Misha fired. I’not saying their community is directly responsible for this actions, but they do seem very supportive of it, and it just infuriates me. If you go and visit their community (which I strongly suggest you to stay away from), you’ll find nothing but conspiracy theories, hate towards everything that isn’t Jared or Jensen, bashing on their wives and Misha. It’s a bizzaro world, and I don’t know how anyone can allow them to keep posting anymore.
Do you realize that I hate Misha day is a work of a troll?
Thanks, ladies, for bringing this into a discussion, because it’s becoming more and more necessary. And isn’t that sad.
Admittedly, I haven’t seen a lot of the hate messages in Twitter or Facebook, especially lately, but I have seen some very emotional responses to articles/reviews on this site, and I’ve heard about others. I do get very frustrated at the childish comments – everything from Castiel-haters (who can hate Clarence?) and how it’s a conspiracy when one Winchester gets more screen time or storyline over the other, to ‘fans’ tweeting to an actor or crew member: ‘Say hello to me. Why do you always ignore me?’ Uhh…I’ll give you one guess. And I won’t even start on the disrespect for Danneel and Gen and their little ones.
When I read those kinds of comments, I always imagine that person as a vicious, spiteful twelve year-old, ’cause that’s what they sound like.
A lot of social etiquette has been abandoned (or, in the case of young people, never learned) because of social media. I work at a University; I see it every day. Some of us have forgotten what respect is and how it should be put into practice in every social interaction, in-person or online.
Let’s try to behave like our favourite SPN actors would like to see us behave; like they conduct themselves to us: laid back, friendly, mature, giving and generous of their precious time.
As a final note, I may not completely love everything I see on SPN (the iffy bits add up to .7% – I did the math), I still completely trust Jerry’n’the gang to take me on an awesome escape for 40 mins every week, and provide us with lots to speculate on. So, spew out that black smoke and let’s get back to normal.
Alice, I don’t know if one of the things that made you post this article (which is wonderful, by the way) was the incident in Las Vegas with the girl wearing the I Blame Jared Padalecki For Everything tee-shirt and asking him about the site, but the girl’s mother posted a response that I thought was (for the most part) well-written and well thought out.
Basically, she stated that her daughter was extremely nervous, didn’t explain herself properly, and that she realized midway through that this situation needed defusing and tried to signal her daughter to back away. She makes it clear that in no way does she blame the actors/cast/etc for what happened. The problem is that now some people from the fandom have written hate mail to her and her daughter, and said some truly nasty things online. It sounds like the girl has even faced some bullying at school because of the video of the con.
Really, this woman and her daughter’s biggest problem was assuming that Jared Padalecki would remember them because of a few brief interactions. It was naive, and the question was odd/borderline inappropriate, but the girl and her mother certainly don’t deserve to have hatred and scorn directed at them.
I know that when you posted this you wanted to speak out against negative and inappropriate behavior, and I think some fans’ responses to this moment qualify. Thanks again for your post, Alice. Here’s a link to the facebook page. The mother’s letter was posted on March 17, a little way down the page.
https://www.facebook.com/IBlameJared
Samara
P.S While I may not understand/agree with the motivation behind creating the I Blame Jared Padalecki For Everything facebook page, it’s worth noting that the page is NOT intended to bash Jared or his family–it’s just intended as a silly way for the fandom to talk about Jared, ie, ‘I blame Jared for the sun shining.’
I think the fan backlash against that poor girl was far worse than her error in judgment! Which is exactly one of the reasons why this article was started. Fans need to chill out and stop overreacting to everything. It’s part of the bad fan behavior and personal attacks we were talking about. Now, she may have asked an inappropriate question at the con, but honestly, I’ve seen ones at every con. I don’t think anyone gets worse, more inappropriate questions than Misha. He handles them well, but I feel so bad for him a lot of the time when he has to deal with that. He doesn’t deserve it. Or the time he showed up at Nashville con with extra security because of death threats.
I sent a tweet of support to that mother, because my daughter experienced similiar backlash (although on a much smaller scale) after asking Jared about his bad hair days at her first con when she was 12. Most people thought it was a cute, funny question from a 12 year old, but there were those jerks out there that said she had to die. As a mother, you don’t ever want to see that crap. It’s crushing.
I have no official stance on the “I blame Jared Padalecki for Everything” page. Fans are entitled to do what they want and I have no issue with it. It’s just that the entire incident just exposes the uglier, more repulsive side of this fandom. Fans think they’re being protective of “their boys” but in actuality, it’s borderline psychotic.
Thank you for bringing up the incident. We were really trying to avoid specifics in the topic, because there have been many disturbing examples lately and I didn’t want to overwhelm.
So – I heard a little snippet following the last con on the “I Blame Jared” and I have to admit that my first and only thought at that time was that it was a negative thing from an unhappy fan and that it was just sad. Hadn’t thought of it again until now and all I can think of is…
I Blame Jared Padalecki for …. my fascination with dimples. Oh, and my obsession with flowy hair. There was also that dream I had the other night…. 😳 Totally blame him for that! 😉
LOL! Cute idea that got lost in translation. Too bad actually.
Now, excuse me while I go think of all of the things I Blame Jensen Ackles for. Lordy….it’s gonna be a long list!
That is exactly the types of comments that are usually on that site. The last “blame” that was thrown Jared’s way before the con was something like “I blame Jared for making me laugh so hard I got the hiccups”… I always think of it as something like: “if I wasn’t so distracted thinking about Jared, I wouldn’t have tripped on the stairs”. The site is run by huge SPN fans that love love the whole cast and crew.
Hi Alice. Great article and timely too. I am not sure if the comments at WFB have gotten progressively more negative over time as I have only been posting here for about a year (?). In that time, the comments seem to have been pretty evenly distributed between likes and dislikes with only a very few who have crossed the line in one way or another. I can’t tell you how much I love this site, and hope that you are not feeling despondent enough to want to discontinue it! This would make me very sad indeed, as this is the ONLY site that I comment on and one that has a reputation for being for the most part civil and constructive. I have been a fan of the show since season 4, and basically just watched for several years and did not pursue online fandom. It wasn’t until season 6 that I began to explore the fandom, and soon found that there are a LOT of nut jobs out there and also quite a few rude and immature people who feel like screeching is the best way to get their voices heard. For that reason, I did not participate in any online fandom, I just lurked. Then I found WFB and my first reaction was, “wow, everyone here is polite, eloquent, passionate and reasonable” and I still believe that to be true. Because of the nature of the majority of the comments I found myself comfortable enough (after lurking for like 6 months!) to finally begin posting. I think that you do a great job at moderating and it is my wish that you continue to do so if you still find enjoyment in it and think it’s worthwhile. 🙂
This is so interesting to me as I don’t dip my toe into any fansite other than WFB. My daughter tells me all fandoms and interest groups have negative aspects (i.e., the toxic 1% that poisons the whole). Regarding the psychology aspect, it is interesting to me because I find it informs on the whole social media ‘condition’. From the fan’s perspective, anonymity provides the opportunity to break societal rules of engagement, which ‘fans’ use to explore identity without the threat of ostracisation ‘in the real world’. In social psychology, research is rife with examples of what participants are prepared to do when protected by anonymity. The problem IMO is that the perception of reality between fans and media is becoming VERY blurred, and I feel this is due to level of accessibility. Very often actors use media for their own gain (not our two men you understand), so tweeting for e.g., whilst a very good marketing tool, allows fans an unprecedented peak into their lives, which further blurs the boundaries. So I feel the issue isn’t only with the fans here. Social media has grown so fast that rules of engagement have begun to lag. To me the rules as to what type of personal information is acceptable and how far fans should go in accessing and discussing celebrities’ personal lives (when celebrities themselves are sharing this personal information) is now blurred.
My thoughts on this are ambivalent at this stage; firstly because no matter what, this aspect of human nature has always existed, it is just the level of invasiveness that has increased, so no amount of social policing is going to make this problem disappear, and; secondly, although unpleasant to read, I don’t feel that it can ever be a real threat (let me clarify, should I say no more threat than there has ever been regarding fans and celebrities, which as I have stated has always been around). We have a choice to join an online community, and if, as some posters say, discussion gets too vitriolic, then we can simply choose not to participate without it affecting our ‘real life’ social community.
I think, as with all cultures, the rules of engagement regarding social media will eventually catch up, but the onus is for all members to be responsible. That includes celebrities, website administrators, (WFB if opinion is taken into account, is one of the most balanced) as well as posters.
kaz1, excellent post! I agree completely.
I was gone for the Dr Pepper misunderstanding. But I hope you’re able to post soon. I would really miss your insights.
I’ve been reading here for a while but never posted, this is a great post and I love the reviews even if I don’t always agree with them.
I don’t expect every episode to be perfect and spectacular (I don’t think that’s possible for any show) and yes they will have the occasional real stinker. Mainly the episodes should be enjoyable and entertaining. Within that there will be good and bad parts which some people will enjoy more than others. Some will love the episode and others not get anything enjoyable out of it at all. At which point the I love the show and all is wonderful all the time and I’m going to ignore any issues because I don’t want to know and I don’t care reviews are fine on a personal level, but are not realistic for every one. It’s hard then when you disagree as you are harshing someones squee and hate the show and so on. Acknowledging the faults isn’t a bad thing, very little in the world is perfect and a TV show will hardly ever be.
Even the best and most popular episodes will have people that don’t like them, I don’t like Born Under a Bad Sign. I don’t know why, it just doesn’t do anything for me! Equally the most poorly received episodes will have people that love them!
My biggest issue with the show has always been the writing which I think is the weakest part of the whole production. I wish they had better writers, I think the show would be far more consistent and even if they did.
The personal stuff is difficult and the real problem is this sort of thing has been around for years including pre internet days. I can remember an actor getting death threats because of something his character did, pop groups not admitting that they have girlfriends for fear of upsetting their fans, etc. It’s not right, but I think the internet has really highlighted this sort of behaviour and it’s overwhelming now. Especially as now it’s easier to see and end up interacting with the people who behave like this.
I’m also not sure if the fact that a lot of the people who do this are female makes it harder to deal with, if a man made some of the comments or behaved in the way some women do towards an actress it would be at a minimum classed inappropriate or creepy, going up to as assault or harassment. Yet it seems to be classed as harmless for a lot longer when women do the same thing.
On the other hand perhaps more celebrities will follow in the footsteps of a local (to me) boxer, by finding the address of someone making unpleasant tweets about his family and pay that person a visit . The person chose to remain indoors, unsurprisingly! I think a few more people being paid a visit by the police when they get too out of hand will help a great deal.
Being an avid forum & Twitter user myself, I am disgusted at the behaviour of some of the fans that I’ve seen. It’s fine if you don’t like Cas. Or Sam. Or Dean. It’s fine if you prefer one character to the other. I can’t understand it myself because I love the three of them so much, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. It’s also perfectly fine to say you didn’t like a certain episode because it’s not your thing (if you don’t like witches or torture scenes or Hell storylines etc). But what I don’t understand is when people approach the actors/writers/ptb to say they HATED the episode with no good reason. The writers want to know our comments & constructive criticism. But they do not want to be told that they’re rubbish or shouldn’t be on the show just because they have a different vision to some fans.
I personally am loving Season 8 but I welcome different opinions. Castiel is personally, my favourite character and if someone wants to disagree, great. We can sensibly discuss our different opinions. But that’s all it is, ‘opinions’. No one is right and no one is wrong. It’s fine to tweet the actors and writers with questions or your thoughts, but I think some fans forget that they put so much hard work into making this show for us. If the writers want to know what we did and didn’t like, we should say so respectfully and logically. There’s episodes that I didn’t personally like, but I can still say the acting was fantastic, the storyline well written, but it perhaps was just not my cup of tea.
I do, however, think at cons people just get carried away, excited to be near their favourite stars. I think 99% of the time, there’s no malice behind the ‘horror stories’ we hear. I know myself, I would be beyond excitement if I got the chance to meet Jensen, Jared or Misha and I can’t say I wouldn’t embarrass myself (or probably cry with happiness on one of them!)
I find things like ‘I hate Misha Collins’ day and tweeting death threats to Gen & Danneel absolutely abhorrent. These wonderful people (that’s right, people) owe us nothing, they don’t have to share any part of their personal lives with us, so when Gen & Danneel discuss their children and get hate for it, it makes me so angry. Not at the Supernatural fandom, but at humanity itself. When did it become acceptable to threaten death over the internet to other human beings? Or to threaten children? I think these ‘fans’ should imagine how they’d feel if someone was threatening their loved ones. You would never go and talk to a stranger like this in the street, so I can’t understand why people do it online.
The actors and whole cast give so much to us as a fandom. They don’t have to give interviews, go to conventions, or even be in the show. But they clearly love what they do, and I hate the thought of them only seeing the bad side of us. We won a PCA for best family, so why can’t we all act like it? We’re allowed to have different opinions, different favourite characters, favourite episodes. But please don’t threaten or belittle someone else’s opinion. It’s that simple.
Thanks Alice for bringing this to the board so everyone can comment. I guess I’m no longer new to SPN because I’ve been watching since Season 5. And have been following your commentary since you were on Blogcritics. As a matter of interest, I read some of your reviews before I even saw my first episode of Supernatural. How’s that? you ask. I didn’t have broadcast TV, but I did have a computer. I decided to browse the internet to and see what the critics had to say about what was good to watch on TV. I ran across yours and Maureen Ryan’s reviews, and the rest is history.
When you started WFB I was there. I couldn’t get enough of the commentary; reviews; rambles – and you had some wonderful (and still do) writers. I remember one gal who must have been a phycologist and wrote the must wonderfully in depth “white papers†on the show. Some of your our commentators and reviewers have since moved on and other have taken their place. But WFB remains a class act.
Now everyone knows that you are a Samgirl. But you have sweetondean and have produced a wonderful balance. I enjoy reading from both perspectives. I check in to your website almost daily just to keep up the the goings-on of my favorite show.
I’ve never become a member, because you registration site claims I have an invalid email address; and I seldom comment, being content to read the reviews and others comments. I usually find someone with whom I agree with anyway.
But I have to say, since the middle of Season 6 a different tone set in. Threats from Ryan to drop Supernatural from her reviews (which she eventually did) and even Alice Jester (yes you) seemed to not enjoy reviewing the show and the whole comment section turbulent.
I do not envy you your job of reading all the comments because some of the polemic is frightful. But I do so enjoy this show and your website. At least I can choose to read the comment section or peruse it and edit out what I don’t want to read. As to those who have maybe taken advantage of a free forum to spew their venom, as is their right, I just refuse to listen. If everybody ignores them, maybe they will just go away.
To sum up, I would like to just thank you for your dedication and encourage you to keep up the good work.
A small minority of individuals are an embarrassment to this fandom (having read through this, can I say that I too rolled my eyes when I saw one of them had posted here). I can’t believe some of the hate I’ve seen tweeted to Misha, Jared, Genevieve, and Danneel (about their unborn babies – [i]seriously?[/i]). I think all of the actors would be stunned to see the abuse dished out to co-stars who are their friends by people who claim to be their fans. I happen to think Jared is a delightful and kind man who would be utterly horrified by fan attempts to have Misha Collins fired. Of course, having a Twitter account at all is their personal choice, but I can only hope they don’t actually read their timelines.
What amazes me most about this is that a lot of the people doing it are appear to be in their forties and fifties. Clearly age does not guarantee maturity. The final irony is that if you do glance idly at their twitter follow details, a lot of them are following the anti-SPN bullying twitter while energetically harassing and insulting other fans for shipping Dean and Cas.
Within canon, it is perfectly possible for Dean to have someone who isn’t Sam. It’s not as if the writers will suddenly stop writing sibling rivalry without Cas there – they didn’t in S7. It’s not as if SamnDean will suddenly be joined at the hip without Cas there – the realities of lighter schedules make that impossible. As a Casgal, I would like to see a character I’m emotionally attached to plug those gaps.
Outside of the show it is perfectly permissible for Jensen to be friends with and socialize with Misha without Jared being present. It is not a slight against Jared (except perhaps in the minds of that deluded subset of fans who believe J2 are conducting a secret romance). Within fandom it is perfectly permissible to prefer one of characters and/or one of the actors. It doesn’t mean you dislike the others, and I frankly have had enough of being informed that my Casgal status means that I am a Sam/Jared hater when I love Jared dearly and have paid a lot of money for his photo ops and autographs at Cons across the years.
Thank you for highlighting this, Alice, and I hope I haven’t overstepped in my reply.
If you are referring to me, I will state again that I do NOT seek out, attack or harass anyone. I have no interest in doing so. When Castiel/destiel fans come to my twitter and attack me because of the conversations I’m having with my friends, I typically block them and move on, tho I do occasionally respond in kind if they are particularly rude.
I do not tweet hate to or about Misha Collins. I’ve never done so. I have no issues with Misha beyond disliking the character he plays–which is hardly the same thing as disliking him.
Silent Majority is not and never was a twitter for bullying anyone. They never attacked fans or had any interest in doing so. The entire purpose of that group was to express love for and continued interest in Sam and Dean as the primary focus of Supernatural.
Everyone is allowed to have and express their own opinions. Doing so does not make me immature or a bully. Going to the personal feeds of other fans and attacking them, however, does.
Lot of Dean/Cas fans are also harassing, insulting and bullying anyone who dares to disagree that “Destiel is canon”.
Sadly it’s true. I have also been called some dirty names in twitter simply for not seeing Dean Cas Romance.
[quote]except perhaps in the minds of that deluded subset of fans who believe J2 are conducting a secret romance[/quote]
lol, and the subset who believe Jared is a ‘wounded baby bird’ instead of a strapping great adult with a wife and child. 😆
[quote]
Within canon, it is perfectly possible for Dean to have someone who isn’t Sam. It’s not as if the writers will suddenly stop writing sibling rivalry without Cas there – they didn’t in S7. It’s not as if SamnDean will suddenly be joined at the hip without Cas there – the realities of lighter schedules make that impossible. As a Casgal, I would like to see a character I’m emotionally attached to plug those gaps.
Outside of the show it is perfectly permissible for Jensen to be friends with and socialize with Misha without Jared being present. It is not a slight against Jared (except perhaps in the minds of that deluded subset of fans who believe J2 are conducting a secret romance). Within fandom it is perfectly permissible to prefer one of characters and/or one of the actors. It doesn’t mean you dislike the others, and I frankly have had enough of being informed that my Casgal status means that I am a Sam/Jared hater when I love Jared dearly and have paid a lot of money for his photo ops and autographs at Cons across the years.[/quote]
Word to this.
I’m bewildered to see the obsession at work in these people who hate. What they think they can do by continuing to hammer TPTB with tweets? Misha has a contract. That’s done, nothing can change it. The ratings are up, and him being there is a part of that. He has a lot of fans so why shouldn’t we get something too? He’s good for the show and what’s good for the show is good for all of us.
Sadly nobody can police the fandom and neither is it one select group posing the problem .I have seen some inane stupid things towards Jared so it isnt a case it is just them lot over there.
You cant force anyone to feel the way you do or I do or how any person does as long has that individual presents their thoughts with respect then there is little to complain about .It is when it tips over as [b]Alice[/b] has highlighted there starts to be problems but again you cant stop someone short of denying them free speech .
[quote]Sadly nobody can police the fandom and neither is it one select group posing the problem .I have seen some inane stupid things towards Jared so it isnt a case it is just them lot over there.
You cant force anyone to feel the way you do or I do or how any person does as long has that individual presents their thoughts with respect then there is little to complain about .It is when it tips over as [b]Alice[/b] has highlighted there starts to be problems but again you cant stop someone short of denying them free speech .[/quote]
Sharon,
True but Freedom of Speech, as least in the U.S., does have it’s limits; striking the right balance has been something that’s been struggled with for a very long time. You can’t yell “Fire” in a crowded movie theater if there is no fire, or act in a manner to incite violence (I think the Supreme Court called it “Fighting Words”), etc.
The problem is the anonymity that the Internet offers; it is the cowardly, uncivil and offensive things that people will say behind the veil of anonymity. If someone posts something they wouldn’t say to another person’s face, then they should probably think twice before posting it.
First off…hello. I lurk here once in a while. I can’t remember if I ever signed up for a name before, but the site wouldn’t acknowledge either one of my emails, so I made another sign in name…or finally made one. Heh. I’m not sure. I’m pretty sure I made one once…but whatever. Not important…
I think fans in general, and I’m including myself among them here, seem to have a sometimes unhealthy need to be heard. It is extremely important to us that our opinions count…that they be understood and acknowledged. Sometimes it is a simple need to either commiserate or celebrate…nothing more. Finding someone who “gets you†is a great thing, and it’s fun to talk to others who share your opinion. It gets dicy, though, when the fans DEMAND to be heard. It gets creepy when fans presume that the show runners must be told…again and again and again by the same person or group how they feel…as though repetition somehow makes their point more valid.
And that’s another thing. Fans tend to presume that they are right. I mean, sure…I get it. We all see the world through our own eyes, and our perceptions make perfect sense to us. But again, it becomes a little troublesome when one assumes that their opinion is somehow more precise…more clear…more valid than the next. Some fans are less concise and articulate than others, but the inability to express a thought with pinpoint accuracy should not necessarily negate the validity of their opinion. It’s perfectly healthy, I think, to exchange ideas and even debate. But, again, it becomes counterproductive when people begin to assume that their perceptions are better, more accurate, less biased, and even in some cases, more moral than others.
And let’s talk about bias just for a sec. I’m going to come right out and say it. I’m biased. In this fandom…with this show…I am completely biased. I have a favorite character. I will always see the show somewhat skewed through my personal preference. I’ll always want more for him than the show can justifiably give me without diminishing the other characters. I’ll always be just a little disappointed when he doesn’t get what I perceive he should. I’m even irrational in my bias now and again. I’m sometimes a little selfish and unyielding and fractious when I am stewing about something. Why is this SO hard to admit for so many SPN fans? Even the so-called “bi-bro†fans are biased in their “bi-bro-nessâ€. And then there are the “bi-bro†fans who are simply NOT “bi-broâ€, they just don’t have the courage or conviction to come out and admit they have a favorite—operation on the assumption that being “bi-bro†is somehow a higher, more pure, or better form of fanishness. If people would just acknowledge and own their individual biases, we would have a lot less finger-pointing.
Our biases tend to fuel a penchant for isolation. When we can’t sway others to our way of thinking, when arguments get heated, we often withdraw into our own bubbles. I’ve never been a part of one, but I happen to know about some of the “super-secret†boards that aren’t so secret. They’re great for camaraderie, but this has its own darkside. Isolated people soon become convinced that they’re right. They have no reason to think otherwise since all of their feedback only serves to reinforce their biases. So you have groups taking to Twitter to demand things they have absolutely NO right to demand.
Yes, there are nutters out there who are out-right narcissists. Every single sub-section of this fandom has their own “craziesâ€. We can do our best to curtail our problem children. We should not condone any action by any fan that truly oversteps the boundaries of human decency…and we should speak up, even if the offending fan is part of one’s own “clubâ€.
On the whole, though…true nutters and disturbed people aside…I think we as fans need to just learn to be a little more tolerant and forgiving. We all get heated and upset sometimes. We all want to celebrate and jump with joy without realizing that the person right next to us is actually bemoaning the very thing we are celebrating. We just need to be a little more freakin’ kind. Not everyone has to think like me. Not everyone has to love what I love or hate what I hate. Jared and Jensen don’t NEED to a hug from me to make their worlds complete. Misha doesn’t need to answer for the umpteenth time what he really…no…REALLY thinks of Destiel. And that’s the thing that we have to keep in mind. We…not they…are the “fanatics”. They don’t see the show the way we do. They don’t experience the show in the same fashion. Leave the poor people alone and let them do their jobs.
Anyway…those are my thoughts. I try to stay as sane as I can, and I beg forgiveness for the times when I get a little animated and surly. I acknowledge that I have biases, but I notice everyone else does to. I’ll try and keep that in mind and be willing to forgive it. 😛 I don’t post much at all, because I really hate confrontation. LOL. And you cannot avoid it in this fandom. I read the boards for 15 minutes, and I’m done, man. Yikes. My blood-pressure just soars!
Absolutely excellent post, Jezzika. Thank you. (Just wanted to be the first to say that!)
Lovely, insightful and soooo true! Thanks for an awesome post. 😆
Wonderful post, Jezzika, I very much agree with your points. (oh and, damn you, Tim. [i]I[/i] wanted to be the first to say that 😉 )
Alice,
First things first; thank you for all of your work and dedication to this site; at times running this site must feel like trying to herd cats but your efforts are very much appreciated, at least by me. I’m sure many others feel the same way.
As a recent SPN convertee (TNT Halloween marathon, 2012), I’ve been fascinated by the devotion, passion, and for some, obsession about the show. While I don’t see a lot of nastiness on this site, some of the stuff out there – death threats to JA and JP and/or their respective family members, the over-the-top responses to something like the “I Blame JP for everything” kerfuffle at VegasCon 2013, is very disturbing. While I guess it’s the price for the anonymity that the Internet allows, at times you have to wonder if the price is worth it.
Well said, Jezzika.
Hi,
I am discusted by the amount of hate that is flying around in this fandom. I have experienced lots of love as well.
But I do have to say, that apparently it is ok to ship Destiel but not ok to ship Wincest? Just from this thread at the beginning the attacks on Kelios was uncalled for. I know her personally and I can attest that she never attacks anybody, she is just not quiet about her opinions and there are people out there that take that as hate. I thought we are a free country and we can speak our opinions, but Have noticed that the hate that comes from Destiel Shippers to Wincest shippers is pretty nasty.
I will not answer any other comments here, don’t answer to this comment cause I won’t get into it. I just thought I speak my mind.
Thank you
After reading your review and the comments of Goodbye Stranger my first thought was OMG Alice is going to shut down this website. I wouldn’t blame you if you did. When I read the comments I know which poster is one who is going to say the same old tired arguments so I skip on down. I can tell in a few words where the comment is going. I can’t imagine how tedious and deflating it must be to have to read every single negative post.
I love this website! I am almost as addicted to The Winchester Family Business as I am to the show. I hope you keep it going but I would so totally understand why you would want to shut it down and just enjoy the show.
Don’t worry, I would never shut down this website. We’ve done so many amazing things in the last four some years and our archives alone are the proof!
Don’t mind me, sometimes fans just wear me down thin to the point where I have one of those drama queen “Why do I do this?” moments. Lucky for me, I have two very capable admins that will cover for me while I go off to California for a week and have a fun working vacation at WonderCon.
Thanks for your support!
Alice,
I love your site and I agree, fans do behave childish sometimes. I’ve seen this in other fandoms as well.
Please don’t shut this website down ever. I need a place to lurk and, occasionally, say something to prevent myself from exploding. Unlike some fans here, I don’t know another SPN fan in real life. And I don’t read other sites because I don’t want to get depressed by the divisiveness of the fandom. So w/o WFB, I would have nowhere to go!
There is difference between hate and criticism. There is a lot of double standard behaviour in this fandom. Some Destiel shippers especially are very rabid and are encouraged by producers like Jim Michaels who, as someone who represents the show, should behave more professionally, but instead he favores tweets of Destiel shippers that call brother-fans dumbasses and morons. When a show producer acts like that, it’s no wonder that atmosphere in fandom can be toxic.
[quote] instead he favores tweets of Destiel shippers that call brother-fans dumbasses and morons. [/quote]
But of course you’d be happy if he favoured tweets of people like you, who probably call Destiel shippers dumbasses and morons. 😮
Umm, as a producer he should not be be biased and he should act like a professional, and not be part of fandom conflicts, but you are probably one of those rabid Destiel shippers, so you can’t see that.
.
ADMIN WARNING!
Emma6798, no attacking other commenters. If you do this again, we will edit your comments.
Eve and Emma6798. I’d like to thank you both for proving, undeniably why Alice wrote this article in the first place.
ADMIN WARNING!
Eve, you are making assumptions and are name-calling. Don’t do this again or we will edit your comments.
[quote] But of course you’d be happy if he favoured tweets of people like you, who probably call Destiel shippers dumbasses and morons. :o[/quote]
Ouch, harsh much there, Eve?Your response treats this like it has to be an either/or thing, like the Destiel and Wincest shippers are at war. I think we’ve all seen obnoxious shippers in both camps, but there’s no need to treat it like that’s the way it has to be. I don’t read all of Jim Michaels’ tweets, nor do I personally try to engage him on Twitter, but I think the important point here is that no one should be name-calling anyone, or supporting the name-calling of anyone. Put your sword away!
Well, the Cas hate stuff to Jim Michaels is probably also crossing the lines … he obviously knows Misha personally and is probably friends with him as well so why would he want to hear that? Theres a difference between stating views respectfully or tweeting hateful things to him. Maybe all the SPN writers/producers will get off but it will be the fault of a minority of fans chasing them off …
And maybe, the Cas haters and Destiel shippers need to just agree to disagree and let it be but it goes both ways and I don’t see anyway to make it stop. I’m a Casfan but not a Destiel shipper … I don’t get it but its not hurting anyone either so it doesn’t really bother me. I also love the boys and don’t think the show could go on without either one of them whereas it could without Cas, much as I would grieve at that actually happening.
I’ve got to say I’m kind of shocked by all of this…but then again I’m pretty new to the show (just started watching a year ago). I was online looking for a late 67-68 impala to buy and restore and came across pictures of Metallicar. So I decided to check out the show on Netflix…and the next 2 months consisted of nothing but work and Supernatural.
I can see how this show means so much to so many people – it engages our imaginations in ways that few shows could.
This is the first experience I’ve had with fandom…and I guess I just don’t get all the hate. Yes I have my favorite character on the show…and I’m not always particularly happy with certain decisions the writers make (and there are some episodes that are definitely duds).
At the same time I don’t think I know “better” than the writers. And beyond that – if they listened to all my ideas I think the show would actually be pretty boring. More than anything I’m excited by twists in the plot I didn’t see coming.
I guess at the end of the day the people who get so worked up that they *hate* certain actors/their families are people whose whole sense of self and identity is wrapped up in a TV show (a wonderful show, to be sure – but still…). People like that seem to have a very tenuous grip on reality and frankly they’re kind of scary…
Anyway, as so many others have said I want to thank Alice and the rest of the staff for providing us a place to discuss our favorite show…and for their patience in dealing with some of the more vocal and energetic fans.
Well, no one has said this yet, so let me be the first to say WELCOME. So glad you like SPN 🙂
Alice – I love this site and this is the only site I comment on ever. I have left most of the other sites because of the over whelming negative comments made where a few negative posters dominate and ruin for everyone and found this site to be a haven. I love the reviews and thought provoking questions. I love that I am challenged to think differently about what I see and think about a scene or interaction on the show. I learn informtion or background that deepens my enjoyment of the show. I don’t understand hating anyone or anything – I just have preferences of what I enjoy more. My good friend and I have great discussions over the show – and we interpret things differently some times – but that is the beauty of the show.
Please don’t be discourage. For every negative Nellie – there are 100 readers who are positive. Bless you for doing this along with your cohorts who are so talented.
It’s really gone too far, the hate. You have a website peddling this notion the Js are together and they even have a neighbour of Misha’s spying on him and posting there. It’s disgraceful. I don’t doubt some of these nutters pose as ‘sane’ fans on forum articles and they’re probably the ones giving it to Cas on those articles,and to Misha in their tweets to Jim Michaels and the other producers.
Every time I see one of the Js or the producers saying how great the fans are, how we’re all one great big happy family, I just shake my head.
COMMENT EDITED – Eve, please check your warning upthread. We do not accept name calling. ~Ardeospina
COMMENT EDITED — Emma6798, see your admin warning upthread. Your comment has been edited due to tone. The original offending comment has also been removed.
~Ardeospina
I’m sorry but I have to ask, are you guys serious with this??
Do you not realise the irony of, while in an article questioning why people can’t show simple respect towards actors, their families, showrunners and other posters, you guys are jumping all over each other and attacking other sections of fandom because their opinions differ to yours??
[quote]I’m sorry but I have to ask, are you guys serious with this??
Do you not realise the irony of, while in an article questioning why people can’t show simple respect towards actors, their families, showrunners and other posters, you guys are jumping all over each other and attacking other sections of fandom because their opinions differ to yours??[/quote]
Not even beginning to understand any of this craziness.
I’m relatively new to the fandom. I post here and at Supernaturaltv and have only been at this for about a year. I am seriously out of the loop as I do not frequent Facebook or Twitter.( Nor do I want to.) So, all of this is news and new to me.
But let me thank the creator of this site (Alice). This site has some of the most intelligent and articulate discussions I’ve read about the show with very little fanwank and I, for one, am greatly appreciative of that.
For me the internet has been a way for me to connect with like-minded people and I try as much as possible to ignore the trolls and nutjobs and people dedicated to offending others and try my best not to do it myself. (I hate confrontation too.)
Most of my life has been spent as a fandom of one and I greatly appreciate being able to express my views about something I love with other intelligent people.
When I don’t like something about the show, I try to just vent, then let it go. It is just a TV show and after all is said and done ,When it’s finallt off the air it’s going to get the same treatment I give all of my other favorite shows. Re-watching the episodes I like and ignoring the ones I don’t.
He, I thought the same and mentioned it above. Unbelievable!
[quote]I’m sorry but I have to ask, are you guys serious with this??
Do you not realise the irony of, while in an article questioning why people can’t show simple respect towards actors, their families, showrunners and other posters, you guys are jumping all over each other and attacking other sections of fandom because their opinions differ to yours??[/quote]
So are you basically saying that you agree with that “section” of fandom that tweets accusations of being a r*****t to Misha, as well as that “section” of fandom that approves it, ie the Loud Minority mod?
Unfortunately that is the kind of behavior that some of the people who are posting here perpetrate and also support, as evidenced by the attempts to stop people providing examples of just how repellent the Misha haters in this fandom are.
No what she is saying is this is the kind of **** that drives everyone crazy. Refer to article!
COMMENT EDITED — The original comment has been edited, so I am removing this quote of it.
I’m butting in here to say that I’ve seen screencaps of the tweet that other person sent Misha accusing him of being a r*****t and also of the same comment she made at an online article when Misha first came back to the show last season that the Loud Minority mod posted to agree with.
ADMIN WARNING AND COMMENT EDIT — Clare, your tone here is inappropriate. Refrain from these sort of attacks on other commenters. Any future comments in a similar tone will also be edited.
~ Ardeospina
Hi Alice
Just a note to say how much I LOVE your posts and reviews. Although I am a new member and only interact with a relatively small number of posters, I find by FAR the majority of posters here are friendly.
I can’t help but feel this has become a storm in a tea cup, and I for one am going to continue to respond to my WFB friends (you are one of them 😆 ) because they give me SO much to laugh and think about. There isn’t any place else I would rather go to discuss my interest in SPN other than this site. The posters I interact with are intelligent, positive, passionate and kind. I LOVE coming home to SPN emails. Please please hear our voices too! If I could I would give you a great big hug and a Dr Pepper ( By all accounts a Dr Pepper is a remedy for all ailments, COMMENT EDITED – No name calling. Adding a smiley face doesn’t make it nicer. ~ Ardeospina). To me you and Sweetondean are VERY much appreciated and believe me when I say your hard work and efforts sprinkle a little bit of heavenly fairy dust into the lives of all who visit here.
Many many thanks
Enjoy your week of and LOOKING FORWARD to your next review!
Kaz1, being an anti-Dr. Pepper person myself, I personally think it’s an ailment-maker, not a remedy. :-*
I would, however, be more than happy to accept shirtless pictures of Sam Winchester instead. Now [i]that[/i] would certainly remedy all ailments (other than hot flashes and uncontrollable drooling, that is) 😆
Alice, I just want to say I have enjoyed this site and the different opinons the reviews share. I found your site by accident months ago while looking up information about supernatural. This is the only fan deciated site I view. I find the different opinons allow for me to maybe notice something differently in an eposide or appriciate a moment more. If I don’t fine a comment appropriate I just stop reading the comment. My opinons is, if you don’t like something that much than why watch the show?
I will admit that I don’t understand “Destiel” or “wincest”. I never got that vibe from the show. To me the show is only about the very complicate interactions of family.
As for the actors and their families, it is a shame that in doing something that you love and you try to bring enjoyment to others that people think it is okay to for them to be inappropriate. Why do they think it is okay? What if someone said that to them or one of their family members? They would be outraged.
It is a sad day when a tv show just can’t be a tv show.
To everybody who joint this site after season 5:
Watch an episode, just any episode from season 1 to 5 and afterwards get on here and check the archive for the articles to that episode. Then read the comments. There is a huge difference between the comments back then and what it is now.
I joint the supernatural family in January 2010. And even back then there were so many sites with bad/negativ comments that I didn’t want to take part on those discussions. Until I found WFB in March of the same year. It was such a peaceful place. And it took only a few days until I dared to join the discussions. If you think this is a peaceful place nowadays, I don’t anymore. Sometimes the comments are just like the ones I already disliked 4 years ago. That is the reason why I very seldomly read the comments or post a comment anymore.
I used to read every article and made a comment to just about each one of them. Back then the writers didn’t get attacked for their opinion (at least very seldom, it happened occassianally) but usually we were thankfull to the writers for taking their time to write up something. Something some of us are not capable of, I mean the writting of an article (I am looking in a mirror right now).
Ifyou read through the comments of the early seasons check the names. Most of those people don’t comment anymore. I know for a fact, that some don’t do it anymore because the comments of the negative behavior like Alice mentioned it just got to much for them.
We all are in responsibility to react to those bad comments. We need to do it by ignoring them. Because everytime someone responses to them they see a chance to spread some more bad stuff.
We are lucky that we do have actors, writers, directors, crewmembers etc of our favourite show that we can actually talk to on somekind of social media. I just hope the trolls will not spoil that for us.
During the last few weeks we had some probs here in Germany too. One of our most famous soccer goal keeper was even asked to shoot himself just because he couldn’t stop a ball. Another celebrity here is actually taking legal steps against a person that showed extem bad behavier. At least one of our celebrities closed all her social network accounts because of the insults she got. Just to show that that bad behavior is spreading everywhere. And it is a huge internet problem.
So I hope that those nosy few will not get our actors etc to quit social media and that we all will be able to enjoy our little show that could for quite a long time in a peaceful manor.
Just got reminded on the c-box of an old article. Some of you might find it interesting or might want to add to it. https://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/articles/35-the-lighter-side/10788-what-the-winchester-family-business-means-to-me.html (For some reason it doesn’t show the whole link just click on the http if you are interested)
I am in no way condoning any or all violent threats against the actor or the producers. or as a matter of fact anybody. That is just nine kinds of crazy.
But as it was stated here to ban someone that likes wincest or J2 is not fair either.
Look at it this way. it’s like religion, I am a Christian, but I am not trying to minister to everybody that my view is right. So I expect the same courtesy from others. And the same with what I like in the Fandom. I am not a huge fan of Cas as I think he served his purpose in the show, but do I rant to the producers about it? No, it is my opinion and you all have the opportunity to agree or disagree. But that doesn’t meant that I want your opinion shoved down my throat over and over as it seems to happen. Thank fully so far I have not been personally attacked, but sadly I know a few people that have and that is what is disgusting to me.
I seldom read blogs or comment on the show. I do occasionally read various articles about the show and the actors and am often amazed by some of the comments made by folks who don’t seem to realize that Sam and Dean are fictional characters and that Jared and Jensen and their wives and children are real people.
I think that most of the hate and intensity comes from people who are majorly OBSESSED with this TV show and the actors.
If you spend several hours a week on line or twitter commenting about the show and /or hoping to find the latest, and even the tiniest detail about the show, then frankly you are obsessed. If you really think that Jared or Jensen are your friends and or going to remember you from the last photo op or question and answer session at the last con, then you are not only obsessed you are likely bordering on delusional.
If you spend more time thinking about and researching this show and the actors than you spend thinking about or with your family then you are obsessed. If you spend more money than you should on conventions and Supernatural related items you are obsessed.
And, if you are obsessed, you need to take a step back, stop making comments, and figure out how to get some balance in your life. In the greater scheme of things, it really doesn’t matter what Sam, Dean, Cas, or any other character does in a given show or season. I love the show, but I know that it is a TV show, not my life, and it will go away one day, and in not too many years, most people won’t have even heard of it.
Something else that I think is behind some of these hateful comments is that people don’t seem to understand how a television series works. From what I have read there are often more negative comments about Jared and a lot of them seem to blame him because they don’t like something the Sam character has done or how his storyline is going.
Jensen and Jared are NOT the writers or producers of the show. The direction of the show is not up to them and, for example, they have both said on more than one occasion that they don’t have a lot of input into the scripts. Actors certainly interpret the script and clearly bring the characters to live, but the direction of a character and that characters storyline comes from writers, producers, and directors.
Instead of making tacky and hateful comments, why not just enjoy the show and relish the experience of watching all of the remarkably talented actors that appear on this show week after week.
[quote]It wasn’t until season 6 that I began to explore the fandom, and soon found that there are a LOT of nut jobs out there and also quite a few rude and immature people who feel like screeching is the best way to get their voices heard. [/quote]
I’ve been involved in the online fandom since the early days of S1 and it seems to me that this particular behaviour has been getting worse and worse with each year. I very rarely, if ever, read the comments sections of review, preview, spoiler or interview articles anymore (NOT the ones here at WFB, these I LOVE, because the comments here are respectful and well considered) because they are invariably full of posters yelling as loudly and vociferously as possible in order to stamp their wishes/feelings onto the minds of writers/producers/teagirl/ whoever. I used to read them but my blood pressure can’t take the strain anymore. 😆
I kind of wish the writers and producers didn’t have Twitter accounts. It only leads to various groups trying to out do each other, trying to shout the loudest to get their wishes and preferences heard. Then if a writer/producer answers one of them this then leads to the other groups feeling that they are being ignored and that the writers don’t like their favourite character etc etc. It’s very easy to get caught up in such “discussions”. This is why, personally, I prefer it when the Showrunner/writers keep as well away from fandom as is possible. In earlier seasons Kripke interviews very often led to near bloodbaths on the forums.
As for other extreme fan behaviour, I think the fandom hit an absolute low with people hating on Gen, Thomas, Daneel and Baby Ackles – that is just absolutely horrific behaviour. When I read about these comments I felt sick. I don’t read Tumblr or have Facebook or Twitter so I miss all the craziness on these sites. I do remember Jared taking a vicious battering from some quarters during S4, especially leading up to IKWYDLS. The things said about Gen were appalling. Actually, I think S4 was when fan behaviour started to get much nastier. The introduction of Jo in S2 saw a lot of angry fan noise aimed at the writers and Kripke but compared to S4 it wasn’t so bad. I used to be a regular poster at SNTV and S4 was a brutal place there. I started coming here to read reviews just to get a breather and enjoy the calm. I remember one poor fan fic writer who actually got death threats for writing a fic that was sympathetic to Sam’s POV after the ‘Sex and Violence’ episode.
This fandom can be a wonderful, friendly, creative place. I made so many friends at SNTV, we had fabulous times there over the years- great discussions, parties, secret santas etc. Good times indeed. But, on the flipside, sadly it can also be scary, intimidating and often very cruel. 🙁
Oops…double post, sorry.
I fled from the majority of [i]Supernatural[/i] fandom prior to the start of season three. My breaking point was when a group of fans started a letter-writing campaign to “save” the show from the presence of Ruby and Bela. Before the actresses had even been cast. Or a script written. Yeah, really.
I’m now close to withdrawing entirely. Shame, because I love discussing my favorite shows with people, but I’m sick of the venom I’ve been seeing.
Wow! This has been a very interesting read. I haven’t commented for a very long time on this site. I think it’s because the comments I am reading don’t cause me to think deeper about an episode the way they used to. There has been so much unhappiness and disappointment about seasons 6, 7, and now 8 that it feels to me (in my own opinion) that the quality of the content of many who post comments has gone down. It appears that not as much thought is going into people’s comments as I have become accustomed to. And I miss that. The comments I read here in the past have caused me to think about certain episodes from a different perspective. It has also caused me to think a little differently or maybe I should say deeper about other shows I enjoy such as Elementary. I truly miss that.
It is a sad situation indeed. This is the only site I read. I stumbled on to it quite by accident. So I have never read any of the awful nasty things that are being referred to here. I think it’s important to keep in mind that these awful things are said by an incredibly small minority of fans. I think it’s quite possible that fewer than 10% of the fans who actually read or lurk this wonderful website ever post any comments. And it’s quite possible that 99% of the people who watch and enjoy this show never go on line. Now these are numbers I’ve pulled out of the air just to make a point.
The only way to make the ugliness go away is to never go to those sites and never pass on what is heard or read. Any attention they are given will only fuel the fire.
I will say that I now skim thru the comments on this website and I skip right over certain posters because I think I already know when they will hate an episode. Sadly, reading the comments on this site is nowhere as enjoyable as it used to be. However, I still love this site and I enjoy reading the reviews. Even when the reviewer truly disliked (big time disliked) an episode that I enjoyed. That is because the reviewers not only state what they didn’t but they support their point of view.
I know that the day will come when this lovely show will come to an end. I hope we get ten seasons. That will make me happy. I want it to end with a really big bang but also with Sam getting that normal life he has always yearned for, with Dean at his side. Regardless, I intend to enjoy every moment of it, even the episodes I don’t particularly care for. I am a huge Stargate fan, Star Trek fan, Dr Who fan etc. And even in those other shows I love there are episodes I don’t care for and I don’t re-watch. That is just the nature of the beast. Supernatural is no different.
Thank you Alice for providing this for me. Yes, for me, I enjoy it thoroughly for the most part. I love your convention articles and pictures. I will most likely never make it to a convention so you and your friends sharing your experiences with me is truly a gift. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 🙂
Hi, Everyone. This is my very first post. I felt like I had to come out of lurkdom to speak up on behalf of Alice and WFB. Like many of you I’m a late comer to the fandom of SPN. I started watching the series last year at my daughter’s insistence (bless her!) and fell in love. Wanting to know more about it, I luckily came across WFB in one of my first searches and I couldn’t be happier with this site! I was immediately impressed with the quality of the articles and the friendly, respectful comments and debates. The latter even more so when I happened upon some other SPN sites and couldn’t believe the Sam vs Dean vitriol being spewed. Were they even watching the same show?! I never bother with any other site anymore. I check WFB several times a day for updates and I look forward to reading each new article that’s posted and enjoy the theories, speculations, and comments about every new episode. Thank you for making this such a wonderful place for all SPN fans!
I also LOVE this site and usually take the rants with a grain of salt (and sometimes tequila). I don’t comment much myself, basically because my views tend to be fairly moderate. I don’t have a particular stance, or a favourite character, and I probably couldn’t tell you anything specific I dislike about the show.
Sometimes when the in-fighting gets too much, I like to step back a bit and try and see it as a form of entertainment. Honestly, seeing the various factions go at it is like watching an episode of Swamp People – I shouldn’t watch but I just can’t look away…..
Now, if someone could tell me why people in Brazil are so keen on getting “Hi!” I can sleep easier! 🙂
Oh Chuck, I totally remember those days. You’re right, GH always had a thoroughly crazy fandom, even back in the eighties before the interwebs.
My Mom used to watch various Soaps and would tell me these stories about her fan friends and and the different factions and rreactions to the show. I forgot all about that.
Yeah, SPN is rather tame compared to some of the Soap fandoms.
Fans of any show are entitled to their opinions on character arcs, plot development, gimmicks. Fans can like or dislike- that is what makes us part of fandom. Part of social media has been the anonymous bullying and it flows over into fandom.Using the word hate has taken on layers of meaning lately.Some fans cross the line when they send hateful messages, or do steps towards hateful acts towards cast/crew making the actors not wanting to be quite so accessible in open situations. Sometimes actors recluse away…so far this set has been loyal to the fans and appear to be able to protect each other from mean comments at Cons. Jensen took a lot of heat because he came to Jared’s defense at the LV convention. He showed a lot of loyalty and this was a real reaction not scripted. They are not their characters, Can’t blame them for wanting to be safe from dangerous acts, especially their families. Because we have had such exposure to them, some fans think they know who the actors really are and take it too personal and too far. Nobody is forcing these “haters” to watch SPN. I stop participating in some blogs when the vitriolic hate spews forth. I won’t give “haters” the time it takes to respond and fuel their false sense of importance. The newest one against Misha is awful given the good acts he does. One does not have to like or dislike his character or him personally to appreciate the contributions he has begun. So let’s continue with our opinions, but let’s be civilized and not stoop to the level of the haters. Appreciate discussing with fandom. Appreciate the provocative article that gave me pause to think.
Looking back over this article and re-reading some of the posts it occurs to me that it’s not even the completely over the top people that we should ultimately be so concerned with when it comes to bad fan behavior. What I mean is that fans who stalk, spy, fabricate and send hate messages to the actors, their wives, the writers and/or crew of the show or those who wish violence on any of these same people aren’t even really the main problem here. These people have crossed the line of common decency certainly, ethical lines most likely, and possibly even legal lines as well. There are lawyers, bodyguards, agents, editors and many other people put into place to deal with these types of “fans”.
What I think we really need to watch out for in this fandom (or any fandom) is the trend for those of us basically normal, everyday people who would otherwise be rational, polite and functioning adults in our everyday lives, who somehow seem to “devolve” when confronted with an idea or comment that differs with our own regarding our favorite show. We’ve seen this a great deal in this fandom, especially lately. We’ve even seen that type of behavior here, on this thread, in an article about poor fan behavior! What makes this happen to us? It bears thinking about IMHO.
I know that from time to time a certain post will ignight my passion (or my ire) and twice now I have unleashed a volley on someone that, had I waited a mere five minutes, I would most likely have thought better of posting. I have even invoked the dreaded ADMIN WARNING on occasion, when I have gotten too passionate or aggressive about my views. 😳 I consider myself to be a pretty evenly keeled person; rational and logical for the most part, but sometimes it surprises me how easily I can snipe, gripe, criticize and belittle when it comes to this show or anything that I feel strongly about. I look back on some of those more “passionate” posts now and feel uncomfortable and even ashamed that I was so harsh, and wonder at why I felt it was so necessary to get my POV across at the expense of common decency or even worse, someone else’s feelings. I think that maybe the best course of action in this ongoing dilemma of how to deal with inappropriate fan behavior is to exercise a little self restraint, and then to maybe wait those five extra minutes before lodging a post. 😀 OK. I’ll get off my soap box now.
E, it’s true, it’s so easy to post something ranty and overly harsh, especially when someone hits certain buttons. I know I have certain things that, excuse my French, piss me off to no end. Luckily, I’ve got into the habit of thinking through my posts, and rereading them a couple times before hutting send.
Still, there have been plenty times, luckily not here, where I’ve read comments that have made my blood absolutely boil and had to work hard not to post something horrible back.
So yes, I agree, often all it takes is a little self-restraint and a couple minutes to think before you post. It’s likely to get more constructive responses out of people, too.
Ahem. I think I’ll join you in getting off the soap box now too.
E
I am not sure if you read the Dr Pepper issue in my post above. If I offended you in any way, my sincere apologies. Honestly there was no intent to hurt your feelings in any way. I am hugely embarrassed about this, and just wanted to share with you that I meant no disrespect. All the best with the SPN viewing
hope it works out for you 😀
kaz1, no.. no… no, I wasn’t offended in the slightest! My post wasn’t directed at anyone or because of any other comments at all, I was just feeling a little self reflective about some of my own not so nice posts! This article has really made me think about my own role in the bad fan behavior department, and it made me think about what we could do as a fandom to try to alleviate the issue. My very next thought was, “well, you could stop posting aggresive comments your own self, is what you could do!” Which led me to thinking about getting too involved and too pasionate and not thinking enough before posting to avoid putting my foot in my mouth, which then resulted in the comment above. 😳 I absolutely was not offended in any way by your comments, please be sure of that. I love your posts and find you very nice, insightful quite and reasonable!
Oh and BTW, I loath Dr. Pepper… heh, you know that! Vile stuff! 😛
Hi E (and kaz1), I am so glad you left this post. I felt bad for kaz, I was trying to figure out what the heck was going on. I completely agree with you about kaz’s comments. 🙂
Not so much on the last thing!!!
Hi Leah (and kaz1), yeah, I don’t know what happened either?! Maybe just a joke that got misinterpreted somehow? My comment was in no way directed at any other comment, just a moment in time when I went “Hmmmm, interesting. Are YOU part of this problem?” Then I had to go and get all self reflective and, you know, “deep.” 8)
You’ll never convert me on the Dr Pepper issue though…..
😀
Hi ladies, I am going to be very nosy and tell you what I think happened.
Kaz1 made a comment earlier in the thread to Alice where I think she continued the soda wars with a comment and friendly insult aimed at E included in it. Unluckily it was in along a whole bunch of people who were not being funny at all and the moderator went through and edited everybody, Kaz included.
I know this because I had just been skitting with Tim and when I saw it I headed off quicksticks to change my post which also had an insult (thankfully a lot toned down from the original insult – Urban Dictionary adds meanings to words they never had and suddenly they are a lot more insulting!) even though I know it wouldn’t have bothered Tim in the slightest.
Thinking it over Ardeospina was right because, since we are posting to everyone on here we have to be careful not to give the wrong impression (or encourage insults), but I know Kaz didn’t mean any harm. I hope she comes back!
Aw…. I knew it was something like that! Thanks for the heads up eilf. I would have known any comment like that was a joke, we’ve been haranguing on (er… defending) Dr. Pepper for weeks all over the threads, it just kind of a running joke. It makes things so much friendlier when we have something like this connecting us all together. I REALLY hope that kaz comes back to find that no one took offense at all to her comments and it was all just a harmless mistake. It’s just back luck that her comment happened at the same time and in proximity to all that other moronic stuff. And in an article about poor fan behavior too. The irony just about kills me!
Thanks eilf, that is so unfortunate. I wish we could tell her about the misunderstanding so she wouldn’t feel so bad. She is the last person to cause any problems! I hope we can still tease each other and not be misconstrued, because as E said, it makes things so much friendlier.
Yes, that’s what happened. I just didn’t realize you guys had an established inside joke. I don’t get a chance to read all the comments on all the articles because that would take so much time, so I missed that connection.
If Kaz does come back, please alert her to the fact that it was an editing mistake on my part. And that even if a comment gets edited, it doesn’t mean we’re angry at the poster. It just means we want to take that part of the comment out.
Ardeospina
Oh, sorry, was that earlier Dr. Pepper thing an inside joke that I overzealously edited? If so, I apologize for that. I was just trying to police the comments and didn’t realize that was an established thing.
Ardeospina
I hope Kaz comes back so we can tell her!! She was embarrassed and felt she offended someone. A complete misunderstanding by all. She is one of the positive influences here. Ardeospina- I also want to say how much I, and others, appreciate that you are all so diligent in policing bad behavior. It was just a fluke thing. 🙁
Yes, I agree… I too am very appreciative of how diligent you and the other mods… mod. It keeps WFB a civil and constructive place to post. I hope that Kaz comes back too.. it was just bad luck all the way around. Is there any way someone could PM her?
[quote]Fans who stalk, spy, fabricate and send hate messages to the actors, their wives, the writers and/or crew of the show or those who wish violence on any of these same people aren’t even really the main problem here … What I think we really need to watch out for in this fandom (or any fandom) is the trend for those of us basically normal, everyday people who would otherwise be rational, polite and functioning adults in our everyday lives, who somehow seem to “devolve” when confronted with an idea or comment that differs with our own regarding our favorite show. We’ve seen this a great deal in this fandom, especially lately. We’ve even seen that type of behavior here, on this thread, in an article about poor fan behavior! What makes this happen to us? It bears thinking about IMHO. [/quote]
I think a lot of this stuff isn’t Supernatural-specific, but just what often happens when we’re hiding behind the cloak of anonymity. How many times have we cut off someone while driving, or been rude to a telemarketer? These people annoy us and, when we feel comfortable and powerful on our own turf and don’t have to literally face someone and take personal accountability for our actions, it’s easy to get nasty. I think that what you’re talking about is a basic devolving of human society in general.
But those crazies who do some of the aforementioned activities in your above quote, those people just make me seethe. I think that it’s people like that why Jensen Ackles is admittedly (and understandably) afraid of fans, and why he and Jared need a body guard and to keep such a distance in the first place. I despise when I’m very proudly part of a certain group and there are people running around who are making me and other fans look bad because they can’t distinguish fantasy from reality.
E, I of course completely agree. My dad says to try to wait 24 hours before posting an angry letter or making an angry phone call. Because most of the time the situation will not seem as bad the next day or will have corrected itself. And if you say things in anger you will often make things worse(or be extremely embarrassed later :-* ). Which is what I did last week. Good advice is only helpful if you take it 😀
Hey Alice. Wow, this topic is certainly a Pandora’s Box! Well, here’s my take: I think fan behaviour is probably the same as it always has been. It’s just the tools have changed. But ‘Sending hateful messages to wives/girlfriends of actors just because they are with your favourite star’ REALLY bothers me. And their kids being targeted? Seriously? For me, that constitutes crossing the line. Hell, for me, that constitutes crossing the entire damn country, planet, solar system AND universe.
I love the show, the characters, the guys and the behind the scenes glimpses we get. I am glad that conventions happen and that certain cast/crew members choose to be more accessible (and hence public) through social media. However, at the risk, of igniting more ire, the Js et al, are not creating Supernatural purely out of the goodness of their hearts. It’s their job, by which they earn their living. And while their public convention appearances etc. are very welcome extras for Supernatural fans, and we love them for it, they get something out of it too (in both monetary and appreciation terms).
The Js et al, are really lovely people: funny, kind, generous and interesting. But they are not perfect, nor are they saints who bless us with their presence. They are hard-working creative artists, and most artists enjoy and need an audience for their art (both for feedback, and, in the case of TV programmes, to keep them on air). And as audience members who appreciate their art and are interested in the artists, we are thrilled to interact with them and grateful when they take the time to go the extra mile.
The art they create is public and is hence available for public criticism, positive and negative. However, actors seem to me to be more at risk of people confusing their art with their real selves than painters or sculptors, because an actor’s art is a version of themselves. If that makes sense… I mean the tools actors use to create their art are their face, voice and body. They don’t end up producing a canvas, sculpture or play, which can be experienced separately from the person who created it. Their art is the character they play, who (as the Js have joked about before) looks like them. This is not an excuse, but it may explain some of the over-familiarity when they’re encountered in ‘real’ life.
However, even real life has versions which can potentially lead to confusion. There is their real life (in their homes, doing everyday stuff, being private) and then there is ‘real life’ where they are not acting, but they wear a version of their ‘professional selves’, like at conventions. Where it can appear like it’s their ‘private selves’, but it might be more accurate to say it is a hybrid of professional and private… Conventions are a strange beast. In their book Fandom at the Crossroads (FATC), Kathy and Lynn comment, ‘conventions have influenced the evolution of fandom, bringing fans and creators together in a carnival atmosphere that challenges the boundaries between fan and producerâ€.
But, cast and crew members’ personal lives are their own. And they deserve to have their privacy respected. No question. I do think kaz1’s point when it comes to social media though is interesting: ‘Social media has grown so fast that rules of engagement have begun to lag. To me the rules as to what type of personal information is acceptable and how far fans should go in accessing and discussing celebrities’ personal lives (when celebrities themselves are sharing this personal information) is now blurred’. Social media (and the internet in general), due to its immediacy, anonymity, reach and permanence, would seem to merit further exploration and discussion…
That said, for me, wishing the people involved with the show or ESPECIALLY their wives or children harm whether it is face-to-face, in ‘convention space’, via social media or in any other way, shape or format is abhorrent behaviour and unnervingly close to the Mark Chapman end of the spectrum.
So how do I think fans should behave? In person and online? As Pusscat 1701 says, ‘J2 are big boys and they don’t need us rabidly defending their honor’. And although the terms ‘common decency’ and ‘common courtesy’ spring to mind, I realise that these vary from individual to individual, family to family and culture to culture. And when one factors in high emotion (and alcohol)…
But I do like Faraway’s suggestion of ‘one of the only ways we can do something about this type of behavior is to have each of us lead by example. Be polite and friendly’. Or…Does anyone remember The Waterbabies? There was a character called Mrs. Do-as-you-would-be-done-by. I guess that phrase pretty much sums up my idea of ‘proper’ fandom etiquette – as opposed to her sister, Be-done-by-as-you-did 😉
Hi magichappening, very interesting post. Most of it I agree with and I totally get what you are saying about the convention and public places not being the ‘real’ person. Everyone is various different people in different circumstances and with people in the public eye it just all becomes enhanced. It must become confusing at times.
Actors have always lived in this sort of rarefied atmosphere where they are kept away from the public and there is a sort of mysteriousness about them. And really when you think about it why should there be? They are people doing a job, just like everyone else. Maybe they are trying to work out how this vast interconnectedness can make them able to communicate with fans in a way that makes them seem more ordinary and in the end able to live normal lives. Neither JP nor JA seem to feel that they should be alien or different, possibly because they don’t come from acting families and their families keep them grounded.
When I started this post it was to say this: I was in the supermarket last night and standing at the checkout looking at the array of magazines, all of which were covered in multiple stories of famous people. And I thought, as I think every time I see them ‘there isn’t a single word of truth in any of those stories’. Not just that it was gossip (which it was) but because it was insane gossip that couldn’t possibly be true. These mags make up stuff, magazine crews sit in meetings and invent ridiculous lies out of thin air and stick them on magazines and people buy them!
And it is so pervasive that no one questions the magazine’s right to write this rubbish or (apparently) questions the truth of what is there. If the purchaser believe the stories then the people in them seen like clowns and if they DON’T believe the stories and buy the magazine anyway is it because they think of it as fiction? In that case the people in the story seem like clowns and also not real.
With that in mind maybe it is in the interest of these famous people, who often seem to just want a quiet life, to make their quiet life somewhat visible on social media and maybe the public will gawk for a bit, lose interest and move on.
I follow quite a few people on twitter who I am aware of because they are in areas I am interested in (writers, actors, media people) and who are well known in a lot of cases but who aren’t incredibly famous, and many of them don’t seem to censor themselves much and you quickly realize that they are interesting, articulate ORDINARY (sorry guys) people.
(Heh, I realize I just put myself in the category of gawking public, and I guess I am, but I have grown too old to care who is going out with whom, and who isn’t wearing makeup while shopping. whereas I am interested in what Margaret Atwood thinks about people’s landrights in Canada, and am entertained by the back and forth between the SPN cast when they decide to insult each other (just to give you an idea where I stand on this))
It’s a whole new digital world out there and it doesn’t look like it is going away any time soon so I think we are all going to have to find ways to navigate it and stay out of trouble.
[quote][quote]
This fandom can be a wonderful, friendly, creative place. I made so many friends at SNTV, we had fabulous times there over the years- great discussions, parties, secret santas etc. Good times indeed. But, on the flipside, sadly it can also be scary, intimidating and often very cruel. :sad:[/quote]
I feel the same way, sometime I love this fandom, but sadly, lately I’m just so upset and angry at people, because, I do love Supernatural, I do love the characters, and like any other fan of the show I have my favorite ones, but I do my best not to disrespect others opinions, even if they are the opposito of what I think – respect is the key, but sometimes is so hard…
I just wish the boys and the crew and everybody in SPN, wouldn’t aware of how horrible (it sadness me to say that) the fans can be…
Here for me is a haven, I love coming here – and feeling I’m part of the Winchester FAmily business, but sometimes the comments make me so angry and disapointed..
This is a TV show, not real life… all the actors in the show, or who have been in the show, are portraying a character, this is not who or what they are in real life… and when you read some horrible things written towards their wives, kids and family member, it makes me feel so ashamed…
But when I read the comments, like in here, I see a light at the end of the tunnel… I still have hope…
I hope everybody has a great Easter.
Cla;}
http://wehatelovemishaexposed.tumblr.com/
“to create anonymity among Supernatural fans”. What does that even mean? Did they mean unity? Otherwise, huh?
Probably a typo, I think it should be animosity.
Eh, so to create negitive reactions so that everyone will rush to Misha’s defense. You’d think a better use of time would be to do something for his charitable endeavors but ok.
please visit this
It has a detailed history of J2, fan reaction blah blah….although seen through slash goggles, it is very informative.
!!Warning!! It is a twist the truth kinda site which show disrespect to everyone posted as “Crosses the line” example.
[url]http://storify.com/speakthetruth/intro[/url]
witch22, I’m not sure if you buy into that whole ‘J2’ thing or if you just posted that link as an example of when fandom goes too far. I really hope it’s the latter.
I’m sorry, but that site is, for me, the perfect example of all that is wrong (and disturbing) about the SPN fandom.
What exactly is the ‘truth’ that’s being claimed here? Is the ‘truth’ that JP & JA are two guys who’ve worked together 9 months out of every year for the last eight years and, having shared such a life-changing experience, have become great friends who trust and respect each other? Is it the ‘truth’ that JP & JA are secretly shagging each other sideways and have been for years now, and they only got married and had children to throw people off the scent? Or is the ‘truth’ that some people just lack common human decency and anything even resembling basic respect and so decide to say ‘Hey, we’ll crap all over JA & JP. We’ll call them liars and ‘prove’ they’ve been consistently lying for the past eight years. We’ll paint them as being dishonourable cowards without the courage to stand up for their convictions. We’ll throw shit on their lives, their marriages, their character of their wives and their families. We will smear their relationships. We will question their roles as fathers/fathers to be. We’ll post unproven rumour as fact. We will scrutinise photographs of them, their families, their clothes and even their jewellery and make assumptions based on same. We will cross-reference the content and dates of tweets from various sources to give weight to our belief. We will analyse writing styles and anything we can get our hands on and we’ll use that as ‘evidence’ of their secret love affair. We’ll ignore anything that doesn’t suit our argument. We’ll cast slurs and innuendo about all involved with them, including their bodyguard, their friends, their publicist and those involved with the show (who are also all liars because they all work to hide the ‘truth’)?
Yeah, I’m going for option three in that one.
You know, bar the usual who they are married to and kids etc, I really don’t know that much about JA & JP (or any celebrity) and I’ve never really wanted to, to be honest. However, after spending a small bit of time on that site (and the site it references most often) I do now feel extremely, extremely bad for both of them because no-one deserves having that level of crap being meted out at them on a constant basis.
Sorry for the rant. I’m not a homophobe. Were JP & JA gay I’d have no problem with it. I’ve no problem with Destiel and Wincest and whatever else the hell is out there but when ‘fans’ (and I use the word loosely) take [i]real[/i] people and twist their [i]real[/i] lives so as to suit that fans fantasy, then it’s more than one step too far. Sorry.
Tim, I’m giving you a standing ovation right now…
You said what I have been thinking for years….
And I just add (if I may) one small thingy…
Even if they are whatever these people think they are (lovers, gays, etc, not gonna dwell into it) it is still THEIR PROBLEM not ours… The word private means exactly this – PRIVATE, they are entitled to have a private life. We don’t owe them. It is bad enough we (as fans) make lots of comments, some of them pretty harsh – about the episodes, the characters, and sometimes even their performance (which in my personal opinion is almost always flawless – but maybe I’m the only one who thinks that)…
Tim and any other person who agrees with me, and even those who disagree, leave them alone, let them do their jobs in peace, enjoy the show, don’t try to find “hidden truths/lies” between every single line, believe me, in our REAL LIFE we have much urgent and real problems to dwell…
Thanks again Tim, your insight was on the bulls eyes…
Thank you very much for writing this.
Cla;}
What an awesome comment, and boy does it sum up exactly what is happening, not just on this site and with J2 but on just about every fan site for every band, book, tv series, movie etc that I’ve ever ventured into. It’s make believe people, not real life. Leave them Alone to live how they wish, not how you think they should
Tim thanks for putting this up. You just put my thoughts into words.
For those of you people who are new too fandom. Don’t believe that sites facts. They have taken true statements and twistes things in their mind untl it fit their believes. I discovered one lie because I was there that day and know what happened so I know for a fact that they leave things out of a true story to make the story fit their arguments.
Tim, I am SOOOO glad that I read your comments before going to that site! If I had gone there, unawares, and found that kind of ridiculous “J2 is secretly gay and everyone is lying to protect them, even their kids and marriages are a sham to uphold the conspiracy” type propaganda, I would have been very, very angry. I have ZERO interest in this kind of clap-trap, and would have felt duped if I had gone there not knowing the sites contents in advance. Ending up on a site like that by mistake while cruising the internet is one thing, but being led there by a recommendation or by suggestion is another.
Perhaps in the future, if we are going to post the link to a site, it would be a good idea to leave just a small description about what kind of information we might find there so that fans can make an informed decision about whether or not they would like to visit. Especially if that site contains what many believe to be controversial information.
Thank you Tim for putting into words (very colorful ones indeed) what many of us feel about this site and others like it. It has nothing to do with being gay or not for me either. Is is about common decency. Fans can indulge their preferences any way they want, but butt out of anyone’s personal lives, that should be off limits.
I posted it as an example of when fandom goes too far. I love their friendship but that site twisted the truth into their fantasy lala world. I know it must be hurtful to read about your fav actors in such disrespectful way.
But this site produce all history timeline wise. Ignoring their “J2” and the policy to bash everybody it was informative for a new fan like me. Sorry for making you feel bad people I will put a warning or remove the link if you want.
You’re very right, witch22 – there were a lot of interviews and pictures in the article and, if you avoided the interpretations from the writer, which ranged from humorous to downright painful, then there was a lot of interesting stuff in there. Lots of stuff from conventions and whatnot that I’ve already seen on YouTube that were a lot of fun. But, since you’re a new fan, yes, let me please just advice you that we’re mostly good eggs in this fandom but some fans you gotta take with a grain of salt. Rock salt. And Devils’ Traps.
No problem witch22 YOU didn’t make people feel bad, just the manipulation of the truth and the disregard for privacy in that article. 🙂
Hi.
I read some of this “article”, but couldn’t get very far before I just had to stop.
This article just made me mad. What the hell right has this person to write up such utter rubbish?! I don’t mind if people write stuff about characters, no matter how weird or unappealing it is to me, it’s still okay when it’s about fictional characters.
But real people? Real people and their personal lives which they very much prefer to be kept that way, personal? To pick apart every interview, every statement, a date or a Convention Panel report and then twist is to support their “truth”? And then put it online?! No way is that appropriate.
I wonder how would this writer feel, to have something like this happen to him/her? To have someone stalk and pick apart everything he/she says and creates their own fantasy, the “truth” about him/her? And then publish it online, where it shall remain forever? No matter if it’s accurate or not, it’s still disrespectful. It’s still wrong.
She/he might think that s/he’s writing this big, grand gospel of sorts, a tale of great love or what have you, but it’s still creepy and stalkish and rude. It’s so out of line, the line can’t even be seen.
I implore you people, don’t go read that article. It was written in a way which was not respectful or nice, it was just horrendous. I didn’t have to finish it to know that. Please don’t give that person any attention he/she obviously craves.
Super, I read your comment asking us to not run to this site, but after everything I read I was so wildly curious that I went there anyway. Jeez oh man, I should have listened to you! The content on this site, in all serious sincerity, scares me. I’ve always even felt uncomfortable with RPFs because, to me, if feels like going into someone’s personal life to make entertainment crosses a moral line. BUT after looking at that site, well, RPFs are kiddie hour. Although, the site does provide an interesting albeit disturbing psychological study as to why certain fans cross lines and just go way too far.
I didn’t get to the end of the article either – it made me squirm a little to much. To watch the time and care this individual took to get all of these pictures, videos, online testimonials, etc. and then analyze everything so methodically…well, it must have taken countless hours. We’re talking hundreds of hours. This is a level of obsession that makes me worried, not just for the mental health of this individual, but for these actors and their safety. I’ve heard about the fan threats against Jared, Jensen, and their families and I always thought that it was mean and unnecessary, but never thought much about there being teeth behind it. But some fans really do get this obsessive. I’m not saying that the individual who posted this article would attack anyone. But I think that this is a shining example of how a small minority of fans live in a delusional dream world and will try to twist the facts so they can continue to live this way. When certain things, like wives and children, threaten this rationale that they’ve taken so much time and energy to build up and maintain, the hostile reactions of some of the fans makes a lot of sense.
I got to the end of the article. It was like watching a train wreck.
[quote]I got to the end of the article. It was like watching a train wreck.[/quote]
Unfortunately I read that “article” too… and I agree with you is like a train wreck, the person (whoever she is) put bits and parts together as if they were connected and 99% of the time they are not… it’s unbeliavable… honestly how much time did she put into that, she should have been working for a charity or helping homeless people or doing smt good for her and/or her family, not wasting her precious time assembling “that”….
Take care, Cla ; }
Tim has already covered this really well, and I haven’t read all the comments in response to this, but I wanted to say that I wouldn’t care a damn if Jensen and Jared were gay, nor would I be bothered that they’ve been involved in some secret love affair all these years.
Thing is, no matter what reason-peer pressure, spite, ten-dollar bet-it would be secret, we should respect them enough not to attempt to “expose the truth†for them. They are big boys who can make their own decisions, and if they reveal at the end of this show that they’ve been in a relationship all along, let them have at it. But they should be allowed to do it in their own time. It is not a fan’s place to ‘reveal’ things about their idols’ personal lives, especially not under the guise of apparently doing some kind of ‘public service’.
It’s also naïve to think that everything a celebrity makes public is in any way reflective of the entirety of who they are, and it’s foolish and completely unfair to expect that they would reveal every detail about themselves, or that we have any right to do it for them, whether we have ‘unquestionable’ proof or not.
People need to just leave them the hell alone. I absolutely can’t believe the writer of this article posting it as some kind of favour to Jared and Jensen (at least that’s how I took it), and I don’t know, humanity at large, when it just seemed to me they’re hounding every little detail of their lives. Where’s the human story in that? Who are fans to question the legitimacy of anything the guys do or say in public, and then go on to speculate and read into all this ‘subtext’? Speculating about characters is one thing, but when it starts bleeding over into real life…Well, to me, I just don’t think any of them should be justifying everything they do and watching everything they say, just in case fans take this stuff too far. It’s not cool that Jared and Jensen can’t just be close friends who enjoy each other’s company without people twisting it and blowing every aspect of their care and general amiability towards each other completely out of proportion.
Why can’t people just be happy for them, watch the show, and, if they ever get the opportunity to meet them in real life (which most of us will never get, no matter how much we want it), just enjoy the experience rather than wasting time nitpicking every little thing they say or do, trying to find some way to twist it into a box?
Ironic, really, I’m sure the author may have mentioned not reading the article with the intention of dismissing it because it doesn’t fit into your world-view, when I feel they were doing exactly that. Not necessarily being dismissive, but more a little too manipulative of the facts for my liking. This article didn’t make me mad, I guess, just more annoyed than anything else.
But I’ll stop now anyway, because this is getting too ranty, and I’m not entirely sure I’m making a whole lick of sense, just typing as I think.
Well spoken Super.
Not to get off on a rant here, but I would like to add my two cents, if I may?
I’ve been to a number of sites and forums that just hum along swimmingly and the the discusson is fairly calm and some real thought is being put into the convos with the occasional squeee from the overexcited.
Where I feel the line is being crossed is when “fans” with an agenda get onto the forums and proceed to disrupt them with wild speculations and insistences that various ships are canon, the characters actually being gay, the writers hate this or that character because so and so has no storyline of his own, etc. Not only are these people are repetitive and insistent that these things are absolutely true but then they proceed to insult, shout down or whine about how they are entitled to their opinion (and yes, the irony escapes them). I’ve left more than a couple of forums after running into such people.
I have no problem with various ships. I like to indulge in the occasional Wincest, Samifer or Destiel but what I do not understand is all of the fighting and b****ing, on public forums, about what are essentially personal fantasies that people insist are real and how one fantasy Is better than another. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GET IT!
And I have no patience for it all. (Or maybe the line I’m drawing is just a little bit shorter.)
I hate the Castiel character. Hate, hate, hate the fictional character. I get to feel this, and I don’t have to have a reason or express a constitutional acceptable rationale (lawyer here). The fictional character cannot sue me. This would never bleed over to real people, because I know the difference. But, although I’m not required to articulate a reason, I can do so. Because when the angel swoops into the room with his “LOVE DEAN; WORSHIP DEAN; DEAN IS MY NEW GOD,” mantra, my Sam character (in my opinion, as it can only be) fades into the woodwork. Perhaps if the writers were better, this would not be the case. Please go watch Mozzie on White Collar. This is what the Cas. character should have been. Better friend to one, but coming to appreciate the other.
[quote]I hate the Castiel character. Hate, hate, hate the fictional character. I get to feel this, and I don’t have to have a reason or express a constitutional acceptable rationale (lawyer here). The fictional character cannot sue me. This would never bleed over to real people, because I know the difference. But, although I’m not required to articulate a reason, I can do so. Because when the angel swoops into the room with his “LOVE DEAN; WORSHIP DEAN; DEAN IS MY NEW GOD,” mantra, my Sam character (in my opinion, as it can only be) fades into the woodwork. Perhaps if the writers were better, this would not be the case. Please go watch Mozzie on White Collar. This is what the Cas. character should have been. Better friend to one, but coming to appreciate the other.[/quote]
RS, my feelings towards the character of Castiel are not as strong as yours, but I really don’t see the reason of him continuing in the show… honestly I tolerate it… and I agree with you 100% – I watch and love White Collar and Mozzie is my most favorite characters ever, I love the actor and his ability in giving us a great performance, regardless of how much time he is on…
Take care,
Cla ; }
I haven’t read through all the discussion, so forgive me if I rehash anything.
I should start by saying that the extent of my involvement in this or any other fandom consists of reading/writing fanfiction, watching Youtube videos, and reading/writing/commenting on this site. I will never be able to financially justify going to a con, and would probably feel extremely awkward there (shame only when it comes to my personal musings about the greater morality of idolizing another human being that much, and all that it entails). No judgment on anyone else – that’s just me speaking from my heart on the matter.
In any case, there are some things that have bothered me about the fandom.
For instance – when it comes to respecting the actors…what about at these cons, where attendees are specifically asked to not film the panels, but do it anyway? Many who can’t go to the cons appreciate the videos being posted on Youtube, and the common response to anyone who complains about the quality of the video is along the lines of “hey, I could have gotten my camera/phone taken away and/or kicked out of the con, so deal with it!” My question is – how honest do we want to be with ourselves here? It is easy to condemn outright hate – yet easy to excuse the ways we subtly take advantage of what these actors give us, as if it is not enough that they give limited access to their Twitter accounts, and are generous with there time and involvement with the fandom at the cons.
If it’s a time for demanding respect, then it cannot be demanded only from those groups we dislike or don’t understand, or the most egregious offenders. And it should not be half-hearted.
If Alice does end up posting a link to the “apology page” mentioned above, I will be apologizing for watching Youtube videos taken from cons where cameras were specifically asked to be turned off. By watching such things, I am complicit in the bad behavior.
Another issue – one thing I’ve found is very common in this fandom is when one person steps out of line, others are quick to “close ranks” and oust the “hater.” I remember reading tweets from SPN fans sent to a young girl who had participated in tweeting something nasty and hateful to Daneel. The tweets from the fans were hateful themselves, containing vile language, threats, extremely hurtful words, and the like. But what good did hating on the hater do? What good does bullying the bully do? It perhaps makes us feel good, bigger, stronger, etc. But in reality, it spawns a vicious cycle of verbal abuse. Plus, labeling someone as a “bully” a “troll” or a “hater” no matter what they said, only serves to dehumanize them. They’re no longer a person in our eyes, so we have no remorse about hitting them back, and harder. But perhaps we should heed the words of a great peace leader:
[b]”Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars…Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
[/b]
-MLK Jr.
Perhaps it’s harder to apply in cyberspace, but I’d like to think it possible.
As for the “Cas fans” vs. “Wincest fans” vs. “Sam fans” vs. “Dean fans” vs. “Early Years fans” vs. “S8 fans” – I don’t understand why the distinctions must cause such animosity. Why someone’s enjoyment of the show should be degraded just because it is different from another’s.
To give an example of something I’ve seen on other sites: why, if “SuperFan89603” (totally made up) posts the following, “Cas is the reason I love SPN!! I love Cas and can’t wait to see him back on the show!!!” does someone else feel the need to then comment about how SuperFan89603 is delusional, that Cas is a terrible character whose presence detracts from the core of the show, the brothers. Granted, that may be that other person’s opinion, but the posting of that opinion in response to SuperFan89603’s comment only serves one purpose – to hurt – to negate or marginalize her excitement. To be frank, it’s just mean. And the conversation usually devolves from there into name-calling and accusations.
I don’t understand why people can’t let things be. Enjoy the show and let others enjoy what they enjoy about the show, even if it’s not what you enjoy – it’s called common decency. I feel like a lot of people get TOO into this stuff. You know? Like they forget that it’s just a TV show, that in the grand scheme of life, this matters SO little in comparison to other things in the world. Yes, it’s a pleasant escape, often a great community, a wonderful creative outlet, and even presents a way to get involved with charities. But for most of us, how much time and energy to we waste idolizing these actors to unhealthy distraction and getting pissed over something we saw on TV or read online (I’m speaking to myself here, too)? Because really? Life is too short, my peeps!
There are definitely lines that should not be crossed. And perhaps instead of pointing fingers or talking about “those people” we should look at ourselves as well. Take a step back and find the ways – big and small – we’ve also crossed lines. JMHO.
Thanks for the article.
You make some very good points, Bamboo. I think that’s one big problem that people often don’t consider that we can have different opinions, but still be civil toward each other, even if we disagree.
A group of coworkers and I had a conversation very similar to this just yesterday (though about religion). That it’s still posible for all of us to get along, even though a lot of us are from different walks of life, have different views and opinions.
That’s something that I think is often lacking, especially on the internet: being able to accept other people’s views, even if they’re not your own.
Reminds me of a quote (can’t remember who said it):
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
That is one of my favorite quotes, PaintedWolf – it’s from Aristotle. 🙂
Bamboo24, I agree with most of what you said. Saying you love one character is not an attack on another and people shouldn’t need to feel hesitant about expressing their preferences. As long as they aren’t attacking other people’s.
On the con videos, which I will admit I love, I don’t think the no-filming thing comes from the actors. It comes from Creation because they don’t want people watching it on YouTube instead paying to go to the cons. Now sweetondean talked about the smaller intimate group not being filmed or discussing what was talked about so the actors could be more open in a more intimate setting. But the main panels have hundreds of people in them, they are not going to say anything there that they want to keep on the downlow, IMO. So there is no invasion of privacy. The actors are even aware that there is going to be some sort of video out there, because they’ve said so on multiple occasions.
It could be seen as a form of stealing, but since the YouTube videos are the reason I ended going to a con ( and would go to everyone if I could afford it) I see in more as a form of advertisement. 🙂
KELLY,
Thank you for your insight. It makes sense that Creation would have the no-filming rule for that reason. The video that stuck out to me recently was where someone commented to chastise the publisher of the video, saying that the actors had asked the crowd not to film. Whether they were asking on behalf of Creation or not, I still think it rude to film in those circumstances.
It’s not necessarily about privacy because the personalities we see at the cons are still “acting” in a lesser form. They’re putting on a show for a paying audience. However intimate the setting may feel, the actors share what they want to share how they want to share it. It’s work, it’s their job, done to promote the show and make money and not to be confused with their their private lives or personalities. So it’s not that I’m afraid they’ll share something with these crowds that they wouldn’t share with the rest of the world.
And I know companies like Creation are making money off it. Youtube is notorious for presenting all manner of copyright issues – people getting to watch videos they would otherwise have to pay for. Creation likely thinks that if videos of every con are put online, then some people will no longer pay to come to a con – they can just watch from afar. They have a point. They also have a right to lay down rules at the cons to protect the actors and their business. It’s disrespectful and potentially harmful to the business for people to go against those rules. Not to mention – and perhaps this would resonate more: at worst, it could put them out of business, and then no more cons – it could also get to the point where these businesses feel the need to confiscate all cameras/phones before the panels, since people can’t follow the rules. I just think this is another example of people failing to demonstrate common courtesy.
I understand and appreciate the fact that those Youtube videos are the reason you went to a con, and I’m happy that you were able to go and enjoyed yourself. 🙂
But you’re right, it [i]is [/i]a form of stealing, disrespectful to the event company, the actors who work with them, and even other fans. Hence why I said: it’s easy to excuse the ways we subtly take advantage of what these actors give us – or what the cons give us, or what the fandom gives us – to view it as just a “form of advertisement” instead of what it really is.
Bamboo, these con videos have been up for ages and most the cons are still sold out(at least the J’s panels are which are mainly the ones I watch), so I don’t think people are not going because they can watch them on YouTube. But I will agree it is a form of stealing. But honestly, I think creation is missing a huge revenue stream. Because I would happily spend money to download the videos legally (even the one I attended), but it is not an option. They should just film them themselves and offer them to download (But the J’s and other actors should get a cut too)
I will accept that I am very naughty to watch the videos, but I don’t think I am being disrespectful to actors by doing so, so we will just have to agree to disagree.
[quote]But honestly, I think creation is missing a huge revenue stream. Because I would happily spend money to download the videos legally (even the one I attended), but it is not an option. They should just film them themselves and offer them to download (But the J’s and other actors should get a cut too)[/quote]
Awesome idea! I would buy the videos for sure! They are certainly missing an opportunity here.
KELLY,
I don’t think it’s the watchers who are disrespectful – I think it’s the people who film even though they’re asked not to, which I didn’t even know that was the case until I read it on one of the Youtube videos.
Sorry I wasn’t clear.
I agree – Creation could probably take some steps and use the interest in those videos to make a profit. Or they could take action to remove them (thought that might be more trouble than it’s worth).
The guests for a con know that they are filmed and that those vids will make it to youtube.
When I attended Barcelona con a few years back I handed Jared a print out of the Thank-you-letter for Eric Kripke which was printed in the Hollywood Reporter that day in the states. (well, I had to have some offical to hand it to him, we were not allowed to give something personally to the guests).
As soon as he had it in his hands he took it to the front of the stage and held it into various cameras to show it to the fans. So yes they know the panels make it on to the net. I believe that is also a reason why they brought OUR Award to the con this year to show it to all the fans.
I don’t know about creation since I attend cons in Europe. But here you can buy dvds of the cons afterwards at least the ones in England and Germany which are held by Rogue Events.
Thanks for the insight, Yirabah – it seems like some cons allow it and other don’t, or they allow it for certain panels but not others. Perhaps its just in the US where we have these pesky rules. 😛
Some of you might have noticed, I haven´t posted anything in a while.
I took a break.
I took a break of SPN, completely with not watching, barely browsing tumblr, shut down the project I was running…
I took a complete break.
And that´s why.
The fandom was destroying my enjoyment of the show.
THe fandom DID destroy my enjoyment of the show.
I came to this site, because a) it had bardicvoice and b) the reviews and metas and everything else where so beyond awesome.
I left this site, because I couldn´t deal with some of you anymore.
I came back, because … ok, reasons totally unrelated.
I started to read anything, that is not one of sweetondean´s wrap ups, again, because of Alice and this thread.
And Benny and damn and right in the feels and I need an evening off and tons of tissues and then I will have to catch up….
And why the heck not Adam… oh well, most likely because Jake Abel is too expensive now he has been in a stephanie Meyers movie….
anyways…
This! And thank you Alice!
And guys… try taking a good hard look at what you are doing.
This thread is a prime example of what Alice was talking about. Stop beashing each other, stop bashing the actors, showrunners, the characters and shippers and non-shippers.
It´s easy to blame everything on a fringe group. “Them”
No, this is about YOU!
Each and everyone of you. If you are not able to respect another poster. Don´t post.
As I was reading the first twenty posts of this thread, I was ready to quit all over again. And not because of kelios.
If you don´t like the show anymore…. don´t watch it.
If you can´t respect you fellow fans, don´t interact with them.
If you can´t act like a grown up, don´t pretend to be one.
It´s not your show. The showrunner determines, where it goes, if you don´t like it, act like a lady and let it be.
I´m going with Garth here:
Don´t hate ^^
Random post of encouragement:
Don’t let the fandom get you down
Don’t let the hate turn your smile into a frown
When the fandom is the darkest, that’s when you need a clown (just don’t tell Sam)
Don’t let the fandom get you down.
I’m glad you came back!
Fluffy I have been where you were.. but I did smts a little bit different…
When I started reading smt that pissed me off, I just stopped, and went to my happy place, like watching an episode that I enjoyed, or videos of cons smts like that… I can honestly say that I love and hate this fandom, for the same reasons.. but until now love has won, love for this little show that “nobody” knows, love for two amazing actor who deliver increedible performances even with the worst dialoges ever.. love for support cast, crew and everybody involved, this is what keeps me going…
And of course this site.. this site has also been my happy place for a long time 😆
Take care everybody,
Cla;}
-grabs chest in pain- it’s…..not….reallll???? the pain!!!
The only acceptable demand that should be made to the producers is that they need to do more monster make-up. Not counting the ghosts on the show, the last time there was any monsters looking like monsters was in season 5 with the siren.
Also, the leviathans in Purgatory were terribly lame, I mean it’s like they didn’t even bother.
Fluffy I have been where you were.. but I did smts a little bit different…
When I started reading smt that pissed me off, I just stopped, and went to my happy place, like watching an episode that I enjoyed, or videos of cons smts like that… I can honestly say that I love and hate this fandom, for the same reasons.. but until now love has won, love for this little show that “nobody” knows, love for two amazing actor who deliver increedible performances even with the worst dialoges ever.. love for support cast, crew and everybody involved, this is what keeps me going…
And of course this site.. this site has also been my happy place for a long time 😆
Take care everybody,
Cla;}