Lets Discuss: Who is The Real Dean Winchester?
Saturday, 10 December 2011 20:47 | Last Updated on Sunday, 11 December 2011 01:33 | Written by Alice Jester | 
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A few weeks ago I put out the question, "Is Sam Winchester Really Okay?" along with a little analysis that leaned towards the conclusion that while a lot of evidence isn't there, he probably is due for an upcoming meltdown. The results were overwhelming, and often explosive. Opinions were quite scattered. So how could I not resist looking at the other side of the Winchester universe?
A question asked to me at the Salute to Supernatural Convention in Chicago always rings in my head whenever I look at Dean and his plight in season seven. When will we see the real Dean Winchester again? I made sure I got the definition of who the real Dean Winchester is from this person. Seasons one and two Dean, the wisecracking, confident, never say die badass that charmed all the ladies and evoked fear with just one brutal stare. I do admit, we haven't seen that Dean in a while. Is that the real Dean Winchester anymore though? Has he been through too much where he can go back to that?
Hell no doubt changed Dean, but he did come back swinging. He wasn’t going to go down without a fight. It’s quite interesting when all that trauma of Hell came back to him and haunted him with nightmares and triggered bouts of heavy drinking, he still had a fire inside for the life. It wasn’t until the middle of season five that he started to have doubts. Sam was the one that eventually got through to him, and pulled him back into the fight with vengeance. Just in time for it all to fall apart by him watching Sam fall into the pit with Lucifer.
Season six is where it all starts to perplex me. Dean clearly struggled with giving up the hunting life and taking his shot at something he always wanted by having a life with Ben and Lisa. Considering that desire was well noted early on in the series (especially in “Dream a Little Dream of Me”) the whole idea was worth exploring. It was an interesting dilemma for him and it played out well for the most part. However, when Dean got back to the life, something was different. He didn’t have that internal spark, that urgency to save the world.
I suppose I didn’t expect him to have that at first. I do think that Sam's trip to Hell soured a lot of that desire. He was also too worried about getting Sam’s soul back for anything else to matter. Once that happened though, it still took him a while to find that spark. It wasn’t until “Mommy Dearest” that we finally saw a glimpse of Dean of old. He was up for taking the fight to Eve but he drew his moral lines while on that task. Without a doubt, Dean was a total badass.
It all unraveled too fast though. He found out his close friend Castiel had betrayed him, he lost Ben and Lisa, and then Sam's head broke. That easily crushed whatever renewed spirit he had. Any new trials and misfortunes he had to face since then he's dealt with by going through the motions. In "Meet The New Boss" he decided the only thing he could do was fix his car. In "Hello Cruel World" his focus turned to Sam and his psychotic break, but it clearly shook his confidence. Then, the whole Amy mess came along. He killed Amy after promising Sam he wouldn't, and then lied about it. He tried to hide his guilt through excessive drinking, and wouldn't confess to what happened despite the fact that Sam could clearly see something was wrong.
Dean is still carrying on, but it seems like he’s moving along from job to job with no desire to be there. Personally, I find it really tough to see Dean flounder like this with both his profession and his brother. Yes, he’s under enormous pressure. The Leviathan have certainly done their share of damage. Instead of getting mad and choosing to fight though, he’s just gotten grumpy and complacent. This is especially true when Sam left him for a time not once but twice. In "Season 7, Time For A Wedding" Dean was a little sad over not having his brother around during Vegas week, but we never really learned how he dealt with that ten days apart after "Slash Fiction." Judging by his location, he went to North Carolina and worked on a case. I think he did that because he really didn't know what else to do, which is the reason he was drawn to Lily Dale, NY. Part of him obviously cares, but something is missing. It seems like he's stuck.
Dean's issues haven’t totally been avoided, but it took until episode nine, “How To Win Friends and Influence Monsters” to finally open them up. Dean has had enough of saving the world. They save it, and it goes back being in trouble again. They’ve saved the world twice, he’s wondering why they should do it again. This I think is the most sense Dean has made in two seasons. He has a right to say these things, to question why he’s doing this. He just needs a friggin answer! I’m just not sure why it’s taken this long into the season to get his feelings out in the open. Dean Winchester without a purpose for ten episodes has not made for a compelling character.
Going into the rest of the season, now Dean may or may have not have lost the one person that matters to him as much as Sam. How do you think Dean would take the loss of Bobby? He does have a revenge thing going against Dick Roman. That would likely be his reason to get back into the game, but how far will he take it? Will he find his old spirit again? Will he go back to the old Dean Winchester, wise cracking and being totally bad ass in going against his foes?
Another burning question too with Dean is from the end of “Season 7: Time For A Wedding.” Why doesn’t he want to focus on himself instead of worrying about Sam? That long worried gaze, what did it mean? Why doesn’t he want to look at himself? Also, if Bobby dies, or at least is out of the picture for a while, will Dean try to go back into protective mode with Sam? Will he try to bury that pain? How much more can he bury?
Speaking of Sam, I was a bit bothered how apart the brothers were in "Death's Door." Will Dean eventually lean on Sam, like he did after John died and when he came back from Hell? Is this just a normal grieving pattern for him? Or are you worried that the brothers being apart like this in their time of need is going to get worse?
What would you like to see from Dean Winchester? How do you think his character has been handled in season seven thus far? Who do you think the real Dean Winchester is? Will we ever see him again?
I recognize that any time we have such discussions, they can get heated. I ask be respectful, let everyone have their opinion even it you don’t disagree, and no Sam vs. Dean. In other words, no knocking down Sam to build up Dean. Otherwise, I’ll give some latitude in this thread. So discuss away!
For all the latest Supernatural info and article links, follow The Winchester Family Business on Twitter at @WinFamBusiness
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Comments
I lost my husband over 2 years ago to pancreatic cancer. His illness was brief and literally took our family's breath away. Within 6 weeks from his diagnosis, he was gone. Now, before you start...I had six fabulous weeks with him and I will treasure that always as will our three children. I also know that on that day a part of me died. It's okay. Something that I had a feeling would happen, but you never know, since each person has a different experience when it comes to the death of a love one. In my case, it was the loss of my partner and love for over 29 years. My point, however, is this. Dean didn't have 6 weeks. He didn't even have 6 days. It was much less and so he was never ever been able to wrap his head around the concept that Sam wouldn't be there anymore. Then it happened. Sam was gone and Dean was left here to cope and carry on. And then...Sam's back! It's a wonder he's not in the psych ward right now. I imagine that it would be very hard to recover that part of himself that died on that day, even after 2 years. Not to say that we might not catch glimpses of him trying to get it back from time to time.
Now that there's a possibility that Bobby is gone, he's dealing with that too. Since this is also a person who figures greatly in his life, I imagine that another part of him will die too. It will affect who he is as a person and I believe that his personality will change somewhat too. Dean is such a lost soul at this moment, but I'm really glad that Sam is there for him. Dean will need to draw on his strength in order to carry on. Fire is great, but after a while it goes out. Sam will help him continue on to get the job down and defeat the Leviathans.
A little side note about Sam....I just hope he can hold it together for a little bit longer. Dean needs him and I know that Sam needs his brother too. It's just right now I think that Dean needs him more than ever before.
I don't think I know who the "real" Dean Winchester is. After 7 years..I am drawn to my TV each week hoping and waiting for clues. Bad Ass Dean is who John wanted him to be. So he was. Womanizing Dean surfaces to fill the void of not being allowed to develop ongoing relationships for fear of placing loved ones in danger. Little needs to be said about his protective stance to his brother...its been the most obvious and the ongoing engine of the show... His life has been all about his brother..without Sam there is no Dean...Its incomprehensible to him. He is at a loss... look again in those eyes after Sam gets in the car. Whats left? Those eyes are searching desperately and don't seem to settle on anything recognizable. I fear for Dean. He will revert by habit into vengeful fury if Bobby is taken from him...for he already is afraid that Sam is slipping away. I pray that Cas lives up to his promise of redeeming himself to his earthly brothers by bringing back Bobby and "fixing" Sam. After all who is Dean without these reasons for being. We don't know do we?
Dean's always wanted out, stated he was tired of the life. But he knows he cant leave it. I just think that he is actually somewhat sensitive and hunting isnt suited for his personality, but he has made the best of it. But because he isnt suited for it, the hunting life is beginning to wear him down and is zapping his life and soul away.
Obviously, AHBL beside 'Dead' Sam.
The assault on the Impala and the punches thrown at Sam after John's death. 'You can hit me all you want. It won't change anything' was one of the most raw moments between the brothers to me. Sam was desperate to pull Dean back from behind that shut off wall he constructs when his emotions overwhelm him. Desperate enough to stand there take a beat down if it would help his brother. The fact that Dean throws punches/swings crowbars at the most important things in his life when he's hurting that bad speaks volumes about him, too.
But in S3 he lost faith in Sam. I think that loss of faith has followed him right up to S7. Sam was, in Dean's opinion, the only thing good in his life that he ever 'did right'. (Scarecrow) If Sam went darkside, Dean failed at that, too.
Someone wrote a fan fic that hit home with me that mentions after OTHOAP when Dean says "We now you're getting stronger, we just don't know how." For the first time 'WE' didn't mean Dean and Sam. It meant Dean and Cass. Never realized that, but that was a defining moment for Dean and his role as Sam's brother. Throwing away the Amulet was the final break between them. Even as Sam jumped in the pit. That trust still isn't back, IMHO. When Death reveals Sam's hallucinations in MTNB Dean acts like business as usual with Sam. More lies. I think his loss of faith in Sam has played a huge part in Dean's 'circle of apocolypse' attitude. Going to hell, coming back, letting him go, dying to get his soul back, sacrificing everything for Sam isn't enough for Sam. Sam still lies and holds back. But Dean always goes back - he doesn't know anything else. His life still revolves around Sam and Sam's needs. But S5 was a roller coaster for him. His faith in Sam was below rock bottom, and he let Sam walk away again. But Zach showed him that Sam would be destroyed without him- back to Sam needing Dean to function/survive. He went back to the fight - win or lose they were going to do it together and go down fighting- then he decided to say yes to Michael to protect Sam. "One Winchester lost to this battle is enough". Again, save Sammy.
Now, S7- "I'll strap my beautiful mind brother in the car and drive off a pier" To me, that says everything that is going on in Dean’s mind right now. He wants desperately to believe that Sam can't function without him, and if he gives up he has to literally take Sam with him. He has actually considered giving up and taking both of them out together himself if Bobby is gone. With everything gone that Dean builds his own self worth with – Sam needing him to survive and Bobby gone- we could get some really awesome scenes that Jensen will absolutely run with. I just hope we get them.
It isn't that sacrificing everything isn't enough for Sam, it's just that it isn't enough for the universe. It's the fact that they save world time after time, but they both still get majorly screwed. Then the brothers try to protect the other one and end up hurting each other. It's not that either one of them goes around saying you have to everything for me or be everything for me, but when the universe takes everyone they loved, it then starts working on taking what is left of the Winchesters. And now they're suppose to still save it?
This isn't a game of who loves more than who. It's the world that doesn't love them. I think that's where a lot of Dean's brokenness comes from. He lost faith in everything good or the possibility of something being good when his mother died. He said so in "Houses of Holy" and Castiel acknowledged that Dean's problem is that he has no faith. He never had faith in really anything. I think that's part of why he has held on so tightly to Sam. But he did believe in one thing. He believed that while the world's just crap and it is simply filled with violence and chaos, you can make someone else's life a little better by saving them from going through the same Hell you went through. It was a huge moment in "Wendigo" and I think it defined Dean and why he personally hunted. Now, when was the last time Dean was able to do that? Especially for someone he loves?
I think that Dean wants to trust Sam, but when the world is against you and taking piece by piece everything you and your brother are, then how can you trust anything? There is a scene in "Charmed" I remember and I think that it sums up a part of what Dean is struggling with. One of main characters asks the question of why can't she have just have one thing that doesn't get touched by the supernatural world and it just stays hers. I think that's what Dean wants. He wants for one thing to stay his own and not get mess up by the supernatural world. I think that Sam is the one thing he has always wanted to keep save and untouched. But it was too late for Sam, even before Dean was born, Sam was damned.
Dean has said that the hits against Sam keep coming and they never stop. Sam wants for Dean to take care of himself and let him help him and Dean wants to take care of Sam. For Sam and Dean, they are enough for each other and need time to heal and help each other pick each other off the floor.
But right now, they don't get that because the world has gotten so screwed up and keeps demanding and taking more and more. It has already taken their family, their friends, normal lives, dreams, hopes, the Impala, and now, it's taking their sanity. Still, its waiting on the brothers to save it.
As always, their efforts to protect each other backfires on them.
ITA about Dean wanting to protect Sam and keep him safe. I don't think he really 'got' that Sam was damned before he was born until Swan Song. He knew Azazel had gained access to Sam thanks to Mary, but I don't think he really got what the whole plan was for Sam until that moment when Sam nodded to Dean right before he fell. He was always looking for a way to save Sam, protect him at any cost.
I just see Dean's faith in Sam being the constant. He's never more of a danger to himself then when Sam's let him down again. And now that he's actually threatened to kill them both? It goes against everything he's ever believed in. That's how shattered he is right now.
Sam's side? I believe if Dean told him the plan was to drive off the pier, he just might go along with it. Dean has said he's tired of all of it enough that Sam would go with him just to give him peace.
I disagree. He had faith in "family" even up to and after "And Then There Were None", IMO, but Cas' betrayal and then Sam's covering up his hallucinations and leaving, yet again, when Dean was hurt/hurting(unable to do anything w/ a broken leg) "broke" something permanantly and for good in him in that regard. And even after they resolved things, I think Dean has finally come to understand and realize that Sam just doesn't see family in the same way that he(Dean) sees it-and as Sam told him in Dark Side of the Moon.
After Mary's death, Dean has never really trusted God, as was made apparent in HotH; and in the long run, the re-appearance of the angels did nothing whatsoever to help him disspell that thought-except for Cas-whom he actually brought into his "family"-only to be betrayed yet again. I think, at this point, though, that Dean blames himself for expecting too much from his "family" now. He sees everything that has happened as just another failing within himself both for not doing enough to help them, and for hoping and expecting too much of them. He does not trust anyone now-least of all himself, in addition to the things that he used to believe with all of his heart in-family-that helped get him through the worst times in his life. In short, he never felt alone as long as he had "family"(even if they were just out there, somewhere) to help him through. To me, Dean is feeling very, VERY! alone right now, and because he doesn't trust himself-he has no one at all to trust/hope in. Sam seems to have found this kind of thing in himself through his hell experience. Perhaps Sam can now help Dean find it, too. Or if not, and Sam still has a breakdown coming, maybe someone or something else could help Dean find that hope/trust within himself that he so sorely needs to find, in this SPN-verse that these writers have created and chosen to go with. Perhaps in the end, they are trying to tell us that, if we truly believe that we're "fighting the good fight", trust in one's self is just as important(and maybe even more than) as the love and trust we place and in our loved ones.
I also think it is perfectly in character for Dean to repress his anguish like this. Historically, it takes half a season for the dam to break and for it to come pouring out in some roadside confession. The blows have been coming too fast and too furious for Dean to be able to jump back up and shake it off, and the loss of Cas was a knock-out punch. And now I think Bobby’s death will crack him wide open. If Dean were swaggering around and charming the pants off every lady he meets at this point, I would think he was callous and heartless. The fact he is depressed only means he is caring and human. Which isn’t to say he is weak. On the contrary, I think he is still badass in spite of being beaten down, and one need only look as far as the last episode to see a great example of it in his confrontation with Dick.
I, for one, have found the evolution of the characters to be one of the most fascinating aspects of the show. I wouldn’t want them to stay the same, to remain unchanged by all the horrible stuff that happens to them. I think saying S1-S2 Dean is the real Dean is a fallacy. Real people change, they are shaped by life experience, they progress, they grow, they improve, they worsen, they go through ups and downs. And I think that evolution in Supernatural has been as realistic and in character as it has been fascinating.
To me, Dean was fundamentally changed in Hell. What he thought he was, a soldier in the good fight, was changed and I think he realized he was a soldier, but for whose side? He had a conversion experience; it kind of reminds me of what is going on during Homeland this year. He was of both worlds in a way that Sam has not been. Sam was always chosen for this scenario, for Lucifer, for YED, whereas Dean was accidental to the scenario, which was demonstrated by the fact that they (demons, Alistair, Michael) first chose John, and when he wouldn't do, broke Dean, and when Dean chose not to accept Michael, the archangel simply shifted his attention to Adam.
I don't think Sam is okay, but I definitely don't think Dean is okay because he has been experiencing an existential crisis for years now. This crisis has been forestalled by duty, by other things such as the end of the world, the death of his brother, the responsibility of Lisa and Ben, the unraveling of Cas - there's always been something that Dean could focus on, which enables his primary mode of dealing: denial. I'm not so sure Dean is so much tired as he is running out of "other things" to focus on. His reality is being peeled back layer by layer and he is finally being forced to deal with those deep seeded issues that he has been good at covering up. I think this also explains the reliance on alcohol; it's a pain killer, a numbing agent for consciousness. And I think it goes back to Hell - before he was a soldier, trained as such (as seen in Death's Door), but a soldier for what, for whom?
Just my thoughts on Dean.....
I think part of why we don't know the real Dean is because DEAN doesn't know the real Dean. As was mentioned earlier, Dean has spent most of his life adapting to whoever he was with--John's perfect soldier, Sam's protective big brother, rebel, hero--whoever the person looking at him expected to see. But a life like that doesn't give you much chance to figure out who you are without the people around you, which is a big part of why Dean doesn't like being alone--he needs someone to define him.
Obviously, that's not a healthy place to be. It's okay to want to be needed and enjoy helping people; it's okay to adapt yourself--somewhat--to the people around you. We all do it to some degree. Unfortunately, in Dean those traits have been warped out of proportion until it's all he knows. He's never had a chance to develop a self image that isn't entirely dependent on the people around him. Until he does that, Dean Winchester, in a sense, barely even exists.
Since this is a television show, I doubt we're going to see Dean going off on a journey of self-discovery any time soon. What I'm hoping we do see is Sam holding it together long enough to help Dean figure out which pieces of himself he needs to keep and which he doesn't, and start building a new self image that's more about who he is and less about who others think he is.
I guess we'll see!
Sam needs his brother to talk to him. Dean always resists this at first, even though he needs it too. I can't think of a tragedy that Dean just immediately opened up about. Sam always has to work on it. Unfortunately, Sam isn't in the best position to do that at the moment. I think Sam's been spending some time apart basically to try to hold himself together. I think Sam wants to take care of Dean, but at the moment only has the resources to try to be less crazy himself. Sam keeps trying to convince Dean and himself that he (Sam) is fine--I think this is the best Sam thinks he can do for Dean right now, try to mitigate some of Dean's innate brother worry.
So Dean's wrapped up in guilt and grief and it's harder than ever for Sam to reach him. Which means it's easier than ever for Dean to shut Sam out and shut down emotionally.
But the real Dean doesn't want to talk about his grief. The real Dean will deride hugging it out even though he really needs exactly that.
The real Dean lies to protect Sam, whether it's a big thing like selling his soul or a little thing like sparing Sam the organ donation talk.
The real Dean channels his grief into anger--he hits, he threatens Dick Roman--and drink.
The real Dean has *always* had low self-esteem. He didn't really think he deserved the apple pie life even as far back as "What Is and What Should Never Be," before Lisa was ever on the show.
There is a part of Dean that, like the Leviathan says, "thinks he's hilarious." It hasn't gone away, but it has been drowned out more as the years go on. And I do miss it sometimes.
The real Dean loves his small family (Sam, Bobby, Cas) so damn much that any betrayal or loss in that group devastates him. But not necessarily beyond repair. He doesn't mistrust Sam anymore. Ironically, even with their emotional problems, Sam and Dean are keeping each other going. Can you imagine what would happen if either died again at this point? I don't think either one could survive like that again.
The real Dean needs Sam to be Sam, and wants Sam to need him back. And I sincerely hope that point comes into play in the next half. They're both maybe half alive, and mostly broken, but maybe between the two of them they can survive and smile again.
Lately, things have seemed less meaningful. Once upon a time, it was a choice that he made. It wasn't the choice that his brother made, or that his father would've made if not for his vengeance, but it was a choice that fulfilled him... the choice to, vengeance aside, do this job for the sake of simply helping people. But he can't seem to help anymore, can he? He saved Sam in S2, but that was wrong and led to even more pain for both of them. He struggled as long as he could to resist Alistair, but he couldn't hold out forever... and the horror of knowing that that failure didn't just scar him, but kicked off the end of the world, must've overwhelmed any good he thought he'd ever done. He couldn't change Sam's mind about trusting a demon, he was told by Death himself to do nothing in the final battle lest the world be destroyed. He made a good go of it with Lisa and Ben, only to see that relationship go down in flames due to a hazard of his job... being turned into a vampire. He could save their lives, but not their innocence, and saw no good solution to what he felt he'd done to them... so he did something even worse to try to make up for it. He couldn't bring Cas back from the brink. Even taking out a serial killing monster only gets Sam angry at him.
There's only so much a man can take. I think the real Dean Winchester is still the one we remember. But I think he would be a whole lot more recognizable if he could just get out of the freaking world-saving business, which frankly EVERYONE should be helping with, not just the Winchesters, and get back to a more manageable scale... taking individual hunts, helping individual people, and perhaps being able to find a family of his own.
For instance, the boys dramatically different reactions to Bobby's injury.. To me they don't really suggest a disconnect. They just show two very stereotypical ways of dealing with grief.
In the book, "The Mourner's Dance" by Katherine Ashenburg, she looked at how men and women grieve. In this instance, Dean is acting stereotypically male (don't want to talk about it.. I'll deal with it in my own way) and Sam is reacting more stereotypically female (let's talk.. let's help each other.) Those two mourning styles can clash, and often cause more misunderstanding and pain. The tragedy is that when two people are mourning in such different ways, neither one gets the needed support. It's one of the reasons many marriages break up after a child dies.
As for what's really eating away at Dean, I too believe that many of his problems relate to his time in Hell. Until that point, his life had been based around saving people. His primary concern was the safety of John & Sam (and a few other friends), but he was always ready and willing to save almost anyone who was being threatened by something supernatural.
However, Hell took that inclination, and twisted and perverted it. It turned him into a torturer - someone who intentionally hurts other. Up to that point I don't think Dean intentionally hurt others, unless it was in the occasional bar fight.
But in Hell, he discovered he could be just as cruel and barbaric as the things they'd always hunted. So, I think whenever he gets to pondering who he really is, its those Hell-images that return and reinforce his belief that he is nothing but a cold-blooded killer.
I've also always believed that Dean was the Righteous Man that Azazel & Lucifer wanted all along. I think the whole story of it being John (and how long he lasted under torture) was just to mess with Dean's mind, and make him feel inadequate. Those demons knew he has self-worth issues. Comparing him to his Dad, and finding him wanting was guaranteed to break Dean a little further.
As well, ever since the beginning of the show, Dean has shown that he takes on the weight of the world. And he admits he feels guilty about everything from the Lindbergh baby to unemployment. Also, it's clear Dean lets very few people into his heart. But when he decides he loves someone he does it wholly & completely, with all his loyalty and protective instincts on overdrive. So, it stands to reason that he would feel even guiltier when something happens to those he cares about. And that list is long - John, Mary, Sam, Adam, Ellen, Jo, Bobby, Cas.
I think that's why Dean had such a distressed look on his face when Sam suggested he could now spend some time dealing with his own concerns.
Dean already thinks he knows what he's going to see if he peels back the layers - the cold-blooded, vicious killer, who only brings pain and suffering to those he loves That's not really the type of person he wants to face in the mirror everyday, so he drinks to avoid the pain, and the introspection.
His verbal attack on Dick Roman in "Death's Door" could be seen as motivated by a desire for revenge. I think it was mainly rage at Bobby's condition. As is so often noted, when Dean's in deep emotional pain, his default is to get angry and lash out. He'd just reamed out the poor Organ Donation Spokesperson. Dean is devastated by Bobby's possible death, and so that translates into huge feelings of helplessness, and that feed the anger. In this instance, he got a chance to direct his anger at the being who brought that about. Maybe that is revenge? Or maybe it's also a return of Dean's need to save people. He doesn't want others to suffer like he & Sam & Bobby are suffering, so he's going to eradicate the Leviathan.
The other thing I've noticed is that although neither brother has received much praise or positive feedback, I think its Dean who is really craving it, and would benefit hugely from hearing it.
John told him he was proud of him, and then said he'd likely have to kill Sam. I doubt it's the first part of that comment which has stuck with Dean!
And I Bobby's heart was in the right place when he said "You are a better man than your daddy ever was. So you do both of us a favor. Don't be him." But I'm not sure Dean took it as much of a compliment. His relationship with John is too complicated to hear that statement for the praise it is.
I think that because saving & protecting & nurturing people is so important to Dean, he really needs to hear from others that he has value and worth as Dean Winchester, the man.
And that's the crux of it. In order to crawl out of this abyss, Dean needs to find a way to see his own value and worth. He needs to be able to find a few skills or traits that he can take pride in. I think he used to take some pride in his hunting skills, but as his belief in the usefulness and value of hunting dims, so does his belief in himself.
Dean desperately needs to be able to score on in the Win column.
In contrast to many people out there, Dean has always been authentic, and not a phoney character.
He has been through too much. I doubt that he can take much more.
Just yesterday I watched HelloCruelWorld and was taken aback - again - with Dean's reaction after finding Bobby's house in ashes. When he leaves a if-you're-dead-I'll-kill-my-brother-and-myself message on his mailbox I was crushed, again.
Should Bobby be gone, I assume there wouldn't me much Dean would want to live for. He's at the kind of dark place words cannot describe.
This lovely man.... has always been real. A real, tormented soul in immense pain.
Cheers, Jas
Yes lovely. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts with us all..they are always right on...
You ask some very interesting questions. I don't think it's easy to answer them, but I will say that I'm extremely worried about Dean. He's been getting more and more despondent since season 5 in my opinion. But since the beginning of season 7, he is virtually on the edge of a precipice.
"Will he go back to the old Dean Winchester, wise cracking and being totally bad ass in going against his foes?" This question most especially is the hardest to answer. I don't think we will see the old Dean from seasons past, and that is okay, after everything both he and Sam have been through, but he needs to back up off of that ledge.
Let me open up a personal parenthesis here and bare with me, it comes back to Dean eventually. My father was always a happy person, but something happened to him in his forties. He started drinking more, sleeping a whole lot and just generally having a very dark outlook on life. Basically he was not my happy-go-lucky father anymore. And that forlorn look of Dean's I saw on my father's face one too many times. Well, unfortunately, my father took the plunge and committed suicide. Okay, end of parenthesis. All I'm saying is that the writers need to do something about Dean's very dim outlook on life. As you've stated, maybe it'll be Sam or Bobby (gasp) dying. But whatever it is, they need to find something to make Dean care again. I think that's what the main problem is, is that he just doesn't care anymore.
I love Dean, always have, always will. I want him to be okay. I'm tired of watching him and saying, "Oh, poor Dean". Come on, bring back the fire in his belly!
It was more like the proud sensation I get when I watch someone suffer through a great torment and feel how much respect I have for that person - it's the same with Dean. There is so much weight on his young shoulders, and he's doing his best to deal with it.
I've never seen him wallow in self-pity, and - God knows - he would have had enough reason to do so.
He's been trying to cope with it all. And that evokes a lot of respect in my heart for this brave man.
Best, Jas
My mother once told me, "Poor you" because I was taking care of her during her chemo treatments. And I told her not to say that, because I was doing it out of love for her. That is sort of what I ment. So, yeah, I didn't want my mother to pity me, so let's not pity Dean. I'm with you on that one Jas.
You know it's amazing how a fictional show like this can make us care so much.
I think this fictional show makes us care so much because it reflects our (the viewers') lives in many ways.
Many of us have lost loved ones, suffered through the notion of being an outsider or felt that their parents perhaps didn't think highly of them...
Although planet Winchester is a supernatural one, the trials the characters face are very real. I always loved that about this show, Sylvie. It's what life is. And one needs to be brave to face the toils of life.
Isn't it wondrous how brave these guys are and how they remind us of our own courage?
Cheers, Jas
As far as Dean is concerned, I am really liking the half-Dean we are seeing, since I hated S6 in every way. What I would like to see is for Dean to go berserk (but not crossing the line into evil and not for revenge -- that's never been Dean's thing), and for Sam to pull him back. Yes, I want him to get his love of hunting back. Yes, I want to see Dean enjoy the simple things life offered him. Yes, I want to see snark. Yes, I want to see him and Sam have some fun.
I have serious doubts, however, that we will ever see the old Dean again. I don't think these writers understand what Jensen did to build the old Dean character. I think the current PTB think of Dean as snarky and caregiving, and don't see the other layers that went into the character. So, basically, I'm expecting the half-Dean from here on out. Yet, half-Dean is better than S6 houseboy Dean, so I am happy.
As far as the brothers being separated in Death's Door, I thought both characters were totally in character (and didn't they both do an incredible job portraying that). I don't expect to see that emotional separation continue when the series starts up again, although I do think we'll see the brothers doing separate hunting for several episodes. In other words, I think we are going to see their storylines separated at this point.
As other posters have indicated, I think it's about time the brothers got a win, because; quite frankly, I'm wondering why either one of them keep hunting at this point. My advise to them at this point would be to go get a condo, take Bobby home, and nurse him back to health.
My idea of Dean can be described in a few scenes: Quintessential Dean when he took on Ruby to get the knife in No Rest For the Wicked, adaptive Dean in Folsum Prison Blues and his first meeting with Rufus, explosive Dean in confronting the organ donor man, and badass Dean when he stabbed the policeman in No Rest For the Wicked and confronted Dick Roman.
P.S. I'm interested to see if Dean gets the kill on Dick Roman. Every time Dean has promised someone they are going to die throughout the series, they have died. I hope the show doesn't drop that storyline.
Walt and Roy-still at large
Gordon Walker-turned into a vamp then killed by Sam
The only ons I could remember.
Dean never told Roy/Walt that he would kill them, only that he would come back pissed. SG has said that Roy/Walt are too "small fry" for Dean to worry about, so we probably will never see them again. I am disappointed in that decision.
I agree that Dean's threats are usually just huffing and puffing. He doesn't get the kills, but they do die. That's why I'm interested to see how this one goes.
*As long as what you have to say doesn't go against the rules of the site....
Personally I'm being loud and obnoxious re:Sam now because if this summer taught us anything it's that that's a strategy that works.
That said, my griping's irrelevant to this particular thread so I'll keep it out.
Voltaire (aka Francois Marie Arouet) wrote in a letter the following sentence: "I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write." So, perhaps the quote Tim mentions above came to be via a game of Chinese whispers...
Cheers, Jas
I somewhat agree with you simply because I feel that Sam has become more of a plot device over the past few years than an actual character. I've gotten used to it by now and I watch for Jared's performance and thats enough for me.
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Just would like to add a different POV on this. I'm excited by what is happening to Dean this season. Very excited. It's not so much who he is but the building potential of where he is heading. In fact, I can't think of another season where I've been so captivated and pumped about Dean!
Who is Dean Winchester? Have we ever really knowns that? The wonderful, lovable wise cracking Dean of the first seasons was so much of a cover up to his Daddy issues and need to protect Sam. The following seasons dumped so much trauma, crap and stress on him that he has never had a chance to really get his feet underneath him.
But THIS season, Sam is truly grown up, a partner (if a coo coo one) and Dean has to actually face and find himself. For real. Dean has to find out who Dean Winchester is! Yippeeeee! And considering the Awesomeness he is when operating at "90% crap" how fantastic will he be when the man finally accepts his own value?
Sorry for the fast ramble, I fear it may be slightly jumbled.But I'll say it again, I'm excited!
You had once asked about the channels in which supernatural was telecasting in our respective countries..well from season 5 i have been watching supernatural on internet till then i was only watching it on TV (AXN india)..Recently when i had gone home i came to know that from dec 27th they are going to start telecasting supernatural (season 1)in Star world. I am not sure about the timings..
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